S-FM 353: Death Nominations

[Wiml]

Baker/CRich/Scumbot seems like a very plausible team here.

[Wiml]

They feel like panicked town during LyLo, which to me doesn't come across as fake. It reminds me of previous town baker games on my home site.

How specifically they feel like panicked town here?

[Wiml]

That feels like a kind of vague non-answer.

[CRichardForumLies]

That feels like a kind of vague non-answer.

I haven't trusted you all game ever since I knew who you are. You can't lie to me about snowing town as mafia.

[CRichardForumLies]

How specifically they feel like panicked town here?

It's not something I can say from one Baker post today. It's more about their demeanor ever since start of day.

[Wiml]

I haven't trusted you all game ever since I knew who you are. You can't lie to me about snowing town as mafia.

You're right, I'm a good wolf.

But this is the second time now that you've tried to throw shade on me instead of answer a question I've asked you.

[Wiml]

It's not something I can say from one Baker post today. It's more about their demeanor ever since start of day.

Please go into more detail then.

[Wiml]

Because I'm getting extremely concerned about the possibility of you being w/w and powerwolfing tutuu over on some really poor logic now that the thread is mostly dead.

[Wiml]

And I've lost enough games to this sort of blatant F7 powerwolfing and have no intention of losing another to it.

[CRichardForumLies]

Because I'm getting extremely concerned about the possibility of you being w/w and powerwolfing tutuu over on some really poor logic now that the thread is mostly dead.

How am I powerwolfing tutuu? I haven't even voted them.

[CRichardForumLies]

Also, putting me as w/w with Baker makes zero sense from how we've interacted in thread all game.

[CRichardForumLies]

You can say one of Baker or I might be powerwolfing sure, yet there's no world where Baker and I are w/w this game. Their progression on me doesn't come across as mafia doing fake solving. If that's the case, then they've snowed me harder than Russia during blizzard season.

[Wiml]

How am I powerwolfing tutuu? I haven't even voted them.

I said the possibility of, not that it's necessarily happening rn.

I'm concerned about the logic you're using towards tutuu being a wolf being very thin + you not responding to things I'm asking you to respond to (and just attacking my credibility) + you joining the thread just at the right time to make Baker's push on tutuu credible and then going along with it.

[CRichardForumLies]

I said the possibility of, not that it's necessarily happening rn.

I'm concerned about the logic you're using towards tutuu being a wolf being very thin + you not responding to things I'm asking you to respond to (and just attacking my credibility) + you joining the thread just at the right time to make Baker's push on tutuu credible and then going along with it.

I've responded to what you've asked me. Which parts did I miss? I can't see them unless they're right in my face.

[Wiml]

Like:

Two people entering the thread at similar times pushing logically unsound takes, refusing to engage with my own logic and vocally pushing people towards voting the same target even if not explicitly voting there (when that target had previously been considered not an option by everyone when we all checked in) in a game where it's very likely we've been wrong is obviously very concerning.

[CRichardForumLies]

My logic is very simple. I'm town as one of the nominees in LyLo, the game hasn't ended so that means it's one/both Martin/Tutuu is mafia as it's impossible for the 3 of us to be all town. The easy pushes on the AFKers were all town, and Martin feels like an easy push into the game losing mislunch from vibes.

[Wiml]

I've responded to what you've asked me. Which parts did I miss? I can't see them unless they're right in my face.

Mostly my logic for why Tutuu is town.

Do you think that logic is flawed? If so, I want to discuss it with you.

[CRichardForumLies]

I'm of course not throwing out Martin as mafia world by any means. It's that when the obvious pushes were all mislunches, it might be time to not just settle for the easy lunch when that hasn't worked out this game obviously.

[Wiml]

My logic is very simple. I'm town as one of the nominees in LyLo, the game hasn't ended so that means it's one/both Martin/Tutuu is mafia as it's impossible for the 3 of us to be all town. The easy pushes on the AFKers were all town, and Martin feels like an easy push into the game losing mislunch from vibes.

But what do you mean by "from vibes"?

You're really not giving enough explanation to justify your stances.

[Wiml]

I'm of course not throwing out Martin as mafia world by any means. It's that when the obvious pushes were all mislunches, it might be time to not just settle for the easy lunch when that hasn't worked out this game obviously.

Often times the lhf wolf is the last lhf slot left alive in the game because the wolves tend to have a lot of flexibility over which lhf slots they push and which ones they don't.

I understand not wanting to blindly vote lhf but you only have two options. Blindly NOT voting somebody just because you consider them lhf would be just as bad.

[Wiml]

I get your reasoning CRich and I'm very much in the same boat but the difference is that I'm using it as an opportunity to critically reevaluate every possible world including things like Baker powerwolfing instead of just saying that the lhf slot can't be a wolf because they're lhf.

[CRichardForumLies]

I get your reasoning CRich and I'm very much in the same boat but the difference is that I'm using it as an opportunity to critically reevaluate every possible world including things like Baker powerwolfing instead of just saying that the lhf slot can't be a wolf because they're lhf.

Tell you what. If Martin flips mafia, then I'd be checking if tutuu can be mafia with them. I'm leaning no, though we don't have the luxury of making lazy reads this stage.

[Wiml]

Tell you what. If Martin flips mafia, then I'd be checking if tutuu can be mafia with them. I'm leaning no, though we don't have the luxury of making lazy reads this stage.

What's making you lean no on them as w/w atm?

[Wiml]

If they're not w/w and you're town then that world is almost always one where we've been powerwolfed all game and / or miscleared ikarus, right?

[CRichardForumLies]

What's making you lean no on them as w/w atm?

They would probably just push me together today if they were w/w.

[ikarusdk]

I'm getting extremely worried about a Baker + Martin/CRich + ? world where Baker is trying to powerwolf the vote onto Tutuu who he expects to be easier to flip than whichever villager crossed with his scum partner (or that both are w/w and tutuu is the only villager in the nominations).

I mean fmpov the game has been basically being powerwolfed away from voting the correct wolves, i.e., tutuu/martin, and richard by baker.

Don't really think i can move away from this.

[Wiml]

They would probably just push me together today if they were w/w.

Even ignoring how common F7 bussing is, Tutuu hasn't pushed anyone yet though, right?

[CRichardForumLies]

Even ignoring how common F7 bussing is, Tutuu hasn't pushed anyone yet though, right?

Actually now you mention it. tutuu hasn't taken a stance by voting either Martin or I.

[Wiml]

But if you're town and you think they're not w/w then this is really the time to be trying to solve both of them conclusively CRich.

[CRichardForumLies]

If they're not w/w and you're town then that world is almost always one where we've been powerwolfed all game and / or miscleared ikarus, right?

Saying we've been powerwolfed this game is like saying the Sun rises in the East.

[Wiml]

Actually now you mention it. tutuu hasn't taken a stance by voting either Martin or I.

Yeah, she was next in the voting order before baker stepped in.

[ikarusdk]

I mean fmpov the game has been basically being powerwolfed away from voting the correct wolves, i.e., tutuu/martin, and richard by baker.

Don't really think i can move away from this.

I believe i've mentioned this at SoD3.

If you are still wondering if i am town.

One thing that would help you is, I had unsuccessfully tried to dissuade previous mislynch votes.
vs
Baker who's formed counter wagon from the main wagoners at the last minute, i.e., tutuu and richard into voting varcron and lol.

[Wiml]

I mean fmpov the game has been basically being powerwolfed away from voting the correct wolves, i.e., tutuu/martin, and richard by baker.

Don't really think i can move away from this.

I think that's a fair stance tbh and I've been having big concerns about a Baker/CRich/x powerwolfing team now as well.

Although I'm somewhat doubtful that Baker/Tutuu are aligned with how he's approached her today (a calculated attenpt to split the wagons into three seems possible but not likely).

[Wiml]

Saying we've been powerwolfed this game is like saying the Sun rises in the East.

I mean I think it depends on exactly how you define "powerwolfing" but it's very likely the case, yeah.

[ikarusdk]

I think that's a fair stance tbh and I've been having big concerns about a Baker/CRich/x powerwolfing team now as well.

Although I'm somewhat doubtful that Baker/Tutuu are aligned with how he's approached her today (a calculated attenpt to split the wagons into three seems possible but not likely).

I mean, i haven't fully caught up but i would suspect this game sorta encourages scum to bus and/or distance from each other no?

[Wiml]

I mean, i haven't fully caught up but i would suspect this game sorta encourages scum to bus and/or distance from each other no?

Yes and no, it just really depends on specific context.

In this case, I think most scenarios with a Baker/Tutuu team would have an easier way to win in just pushing between the villager/s in Martin/CRichm

[Wiml]

Yes and no, it just really depends on specific context.

In this case, I think most scenarios with a Baker/Tutuu team would have an easier way to win in just pushing between the villager/s in Martin/CRichm

You could argue that maybe Bakermir is just bad with TMI and can't justify voting anybody outside of his own wolfmate even with an easy win on the table and some people are like that to be honest.

But I'd say that it's less likely than rand at the very least.

[CRichardForumLies]

Yes and no, it just really depends on specific context.

In this case, I think most scenarios with a Baker/Tutuu team would have an easier way to win in just pushing between the villager/s in Martin/CRichm

Mafia teams including Baker and tutuu are broken from today's votes.

[Wiml]

Ikarus, how long are you going to be around before EoD? Will you be back before deadline?

[Wiml]

Mafia teams including Baker and tutuu are broken from today's votes.

How so? (Outside of what I said against a Baker/Tutuu w/w world in the posts that you're quoting of mine).

[CRichardForumLies]

How so? (Outside of what I said against a Baker/Tutuu w/w world in the posts that you're quoting of mine).

Baker has nothing to gain from bussing tutuu, when there is Martin/myself over there today.

[Wiml]

Baker has nothing to gain from bussing tutuu, when there is Martin/myself over there today.

Yeah but didn't I just tell ikarus basically that exact thing in the post of mine you quoted?

Tutuu/Baker only really works as w/w if Baker is wildly misplaying and having TMI issues which seems unlikely.

[Wiml]

CRich, you're saying that you think that the other two players in the noms are more likely t/w than not. What's your plan for solving them this game before deadline?

[CRichardForumLies]

CRich, you're saying that you think that the other two players in the noms are more likely t/w than not. What's your plan for solving them this game before deadline?

Real time interact with them. Which incidentally is what I did with Martin earlier today.
Which is at least in part why I'm thinking voting Martin might be the wrong move today on my part.

[Wiml]

Real time interact with them. Which incidentally is what I did with Martin earlier today.
Which is at least in part why I'm thinking voting Martin might be the wrong move today on my part.

Seems fair but what are you planning on doing while neither of them are here?

[CRichardForumLies]

Seems fair but what are you planning on doing while neither of them are here?

Look through their ISOs and either keep my vote on Martin/change to tutuu. MM Marshall giving a cursed nominee list in hindsight this game yikes.

[Wiml]

Look through their ISOs and either keep my vote on Martin/change to tutuu. MM Marshall giving a cursed nominee list in hindsight this game yikes.

I get that, it's annoying that the nominations list I pushed for didn't go through as that would've probably led to scumbot dying D2 over Varcron.

But for you specifically: when are you planning to start doing that? I'm concerned by how laid back you seem about any of this solving when you, if town, would be in an extremely stressful position knowing that you not only have to self defend but also correctly find what you believe to be just a single wolf (not w/w) between the two other nominations and the game being at stake?

[Wiml]

I'm also concerned with you wanting to push the angle that we've been powerwolfed (no issues with this bit in a vacuum) but also being unwilling / unable to properly justify why you still have baker as lock town never rescind and seemingly have no intention of considering his alignment further.

[Wiml]

If you think you're getting hosed by a townread wolf team then isn't that the point where you need to reset all of your townreads and look and things critically from scratch?

That's not at all matching your very lazy read on baker that seems to show no paranoia over him at all (which is bad regardless of baker's alignment).

[CRichardForumLies]

If you think you're getting hosed by a townread wolf team then isn't that the point where you need to reset all of your townreads and look and things critically from scratch?

That's not at all matching your very lazy read on baker that seems to show no paranoia over him at all (which is bad regardless of baker's alignment).

I'll be honest. I have baker as mafia in fringe worlds, yet that doesn't matter if the game ends today.