S-FM 351: Mini Fooling Party

[scumbot5679]

There's also a part of me that does sympathize with Bake b/c I have used a bad protect and tried to outthink the scum kill. I mean, I do get it that he could simply be scum that lied about protecting Pod and I wouldn't be surprised if it really is that simple but Inno is the correct lynch. Book it, Dano!

[Auwt]

I'll claim now since it's been 24 hours, but I would have really liked Innovation to claim first

I am the War Surgeon.

What I meant by the "circumstances surrounding it" was that both nights, my action got redirected onto myself, and obviously we have Baker claiming the exact same role.

Night 1, I protected Ikarus, who I at numerous points alluded to (on day 2) being someone I considered a prime kill target.
Given Ikarus still died, this was why I was so confident in saying that if MM was lying about being vigi that was controlled to Ika (which would make sense given I can only protect from 1 attack w/ my doctor ability), I was likely the one that was targeted by the Triad Hidden
(although obviously even if PoD hadn't bus driven Ikarus I would have died so it didn't end up mattering)
Night 2, I protected Scumbot. I didn't know for sure if PoD was actually Bus Driver & I figured Baker wouldn't kill PoD even if triad because that would out them, but evidently they still did it. If I had known for sure PoD was bus driver (instead of Baker just claiming that PoD was) I may have still protected him even with baker's claim given the importance of his role.


Both of my actions funnily - and sadly - enough ended up being redirected back to myself, so my role, like I said, isn't gonna sound incredibly believable because apart from the fact that I can guarantee scumbot gets to tomorrow, my role isn't really "confirmable"


I think there's technically a mech play we could make if baker was somehow town, but I sincerely doubt that's the case

Okay, so bakermir already claimed WS, so this is very possibly an attempt of a Corrupted Assessor.
Let's check how much his gameplay would fit as a CA.
Supposedly, the moment Gikkle would not like to claim, is by the time bakermir claimed, because that is "circumstances surrouding it".
Having your night action redirect to yourself is something, but claiming an already claimed role while CA must still be in place is another.

#401, Gikkle realizes after POD told him claiming is useless D2, yet still wanted in the end, guess why...

Do you think that'll help town to know?
MM admitted to the murder so I don't see why what I am rolewise matters

#402, Note that POD, then even add this, to which Gikkle never responded, obviously because it would put a stop to his scheme.

true, let save claims for next day

#452, "Please claim, we can consider CA has already made a move, and so I can choose the best roles to swap flips". At least now I understand why you are upset I did not claim yesterday. You could not take the risk that I was Triad Hidden, and just flip your own role with mine.

I do think MM & Baker makes sense to just be the scum team - I mean, I'm the one that argued it - but I'd rather not decide a potentially game ending lynch with incomplete information?

Plus given the corrupted assessor using their ability last night, everyone claiming makes it easier to know what actually went down n1 instead of it being wiped from history by the corrupted assessor.

I will look at the course of event following bakermir's claim.
So this is #484, bakermir's claim :

I hardclaim War Surgeon
I visited MM with doc action
MM is either DH or DH attacked them
I am not sure what really happened but I know
If busdriver claims we can decide if MM is lying or not
I think I know who the busdriver is and I will protect you
I still think Innovation is CA, Scumbot Triad Hidden and DH is potentially in Gikkle PoD MM
I don't know what to make of Auwt they are very wolfy but maybe I am wrong on Scumbot

#496, Giving you multiple option to swap roles in case a specific claim is hard to forge.

Do you want to be voted? Because you're sort of asking for it.

1. You are part of the PoE. Do not act like you aren't.
2. Corrupt Assessor could have changed your flip and your last will, meaning if you somehow die tonight, we will have no information about what you did N1.
3. If you are anything important, Baker can "protect" you (don't think they're telling the truth but if you die that'll mean we know for sure they're evil! But odds are they won't try, so you'll be fine)

There is no reason to be so obstinate about claiming. I myself am willing to claim once 2 other people have claimed.

#508, For some reasons, Gikkle has immunity to being the first to claim, guess why. [answering to POD who tells him to claim if massclaim is THAT needed]

I said I'd claim if two people claimed. Vote me if I don't after someone else claims, but I am not the one that needs to be mass claiming here.

#512, Truly omitting CA play here, yeah we know that Corrupted Assessor has already used their ability, it's common knowledge, wait ?
How comes the first thing you mention when talking about role reveal is the Triad Hidden more than CA ?
Don't tell me you trusted bakermir's story that CA made a move and he already knew it somehow.

I'd expect you to vote me if I lied about claiming after two people claim.

If you're town, claim. @Auwt also needs to claim.

If either of you are town, you are only setting a precedent of people in the PoE not having to claim. Your role being secret is not more valuable than solving the game. If you truly do believe MM is a wolf, then triad hidden won't even be able to mess with your actions anyways.

#542, Yeah, you need both claim, because it's very well known that if you get only one, it's obviously the town one that will claim.
Sigh...
Honestly the more I think of it, the more it is blatant.
I understand that you cannot tell the real reasons, but come on that argument was bs.

you AND auwt claiming is definitely beneficial
if I just get one or the other then it's not as helpful because most likely the one of you that's town is gonna be the one that claims

#553, POD pointed it out, that you in no way need both claims.

Auwt doesnt have to claim tho, no idea why you need him to claim, but i will only claim if you do, and youre still hiding your claim, so how are either of us any different?

#560, Gikkle out of the POE, ofc.
"It only hurts us", is more like "It will hurt me, because I cannot"

I'm hiding my claim because I'm not in the PoE (whereas you are), so me claiming BEFORE you guys only hurts us unless I can get two of you to claim that way. It's the same reason I'm not demanding scumbot to claim.

LETS ASSUME FROM HERE, THAT GIKKLE DECIDED TO SWAP HIS ROLE FLIP WITH BAKERMIR'S WAR SURGEON ROLE.


#586, D3, Damn POD flipped, he now needs another role claim, because it would be too hard to base his claim only on my unknown role at that time.
So the next victim of his scheme is........ [while answering to Scumbot]

I would be claiming at the same time as you, unless you honestly think I could still be triad?

#589, Gikkle then writes an interesting statement saying that his """""push""""" on MM would be weird if he was CA, but that's incorrect because he knows very well that he only used his CA ability on the night from D2 to D3. So Gikkle's D2 was just a free bird without any role binding.

What triad would I be if I were triad? I can't be Triad hidden turned Dragon Head because that would mean you think I attack someone I either know is going to be protected, or, if I thought Baker my buddy, put them in an even worse position than they already were.
Assessor? In what world do I push MM instead of someone I swapped the flip of? Unless you think MM's flip was fake? Because the game's already over if it was.

From anybody's perspective, I should be MORE clear than you, although I am willing to claim prior to you (but after the other 2) since my role isn't that significant at this stage of the game.

#591, Oh, no Gikkle, what happened to your role? Did you not know that you were War Surgeon before D3 ?
Why do you suddenly say that, and not D2 after baker's claim, is it because you had not bind bakermir's role D2 : ) ?
Is it because of the useless information you are trying to forge as a fake WS ?
AtE when you wanted to claim last is uh.

pff, my claim isn't even gonna sound that believable due to the circumstances surrounding it
plus I've already revealed enough about my role that you could probably guess it if you tried hard enough

#617, Look how he is confident about his role being WS now, even sending hint to everyone.

Idk what innovation is gonna claim but I literally couldn't claim citizen, I very clearly stated that my role is one that would have some idea of it being roleblocked or controlled (based on me saying I think I may have been)

#626, then that happened, he could not take the risk to claim detective nor lookout, so only WS was a possibility.
But anyway at that time he already flipped with bakermir so uh.

@Gikkle

So let's try to guess then?

Citizen, you said no, and that roleblock/manipulation can have an impact on you.
Bus Driver, you cannot be manipulated, and you said in a previous post that your role could be roleblocked/manipulated.
Locksmith, you cannot be roleblocked, as you are first in Order Of Action.
Detective, you have nothing, and whether you like it or not, you withdrew.
Lookout, you have nothing, and whether you like it or not, you withdrew.
Vigilante, it would be time to wake up.
Military, it would be time to wake up.
Butler, please don't reveal a dead is town member
War Surgeon, yeah yeah yeah a bakermir2.
Roleblocker, you cannot be roleblocked, and you said your role can be roleblocked/manipulated.

I can't see a TOWN role that can save you.
Now, I could eventually have a look at Triad roles once again, but is it that useful?

#709, Yeah, giving freedom to Innovation, but totally not for you because of the mass claiming you asked D2.

It's especially annoying hearing auwt talking about me not claiming because it's just so hypocritical lol
I was very opening to claiming yesterday and he's the one that didn't open the door
The reason I don't want to claim NOW is because at this point it isn't gonna change literally anything about anyones read on me or help town in any way but it IS gonna allow innovation more freedom w/ a fake claim
And while I'm probably gonna claim anyways because Innovation isn't getting on I don't see how my position regarding that is unreasonable when everyone seems to think Innovation is scum?

Also to baker -
Why would we trust you when you deliberately didn't protect who you said you would?
And you implied a lot mech knowledge with CA & Bus driver yesterday that makes no sense with a war surgeon claim
Like why should we trust you

So in any case, with a CA being alive, having two people claiming the same thing is terrible.
Congrats to the first that claimed WS, the second look like a copypasta CA binding.
The world that is described above, I believe it, but as I've been going through that case, it has become even clearer.

[bakermir]

I am thinking the more Gikkle is avoiding an Innovation vote the more I am convinced triad are flailing

[bakermir]

The fact baker even knew PoD was the bus driver heavily implicates them
I mean honestly I might be wrong about baker being the killer and not the CA bc it did kind of look like Baker was signalling to somebody that PoD was BD
Which if corrupt assessor, only way they'd know that is if they tried to corrupt assessor me, ikarus died, and they realized there was a bus drive bc ikarus should have had his stuff flipped

I also believed you to be a detective/lookout even after you retracted your claim. I thought you had more towny side to you in general but now you claiming WS and not voting Innovation is just lol

Also how is that signalling? I knew PoD was the busdriver the first moment i started reading this game. I kept it a secret the whole time. If I am able to find the bus driver then no wonder you are able to bus your DH or figure out your CA even

[bakermir]

Had I been here I wouldnt kept my vote on Ikarus, I wouldve swithed to someone else, probably to Innovation. While I understand this is his first game, his overall vibes Day 1 are just kinda like an active scum that isn't really doing anything but try to look active. Someone new as Town wouldve scumhunt a tad bit, I dont see much scumhunting from this slot.

-vote Innovation

Also I think 1 mafia is between the 2 replacement slots as I didnt really find much scumreads among the active people.

My 3rd scumlean is MM because he have the same vibes from the last time I played with him and he was mafia.

PoD posted this on start of day 2

I think we always hit a wolf between pod/MM

and another in scumbot/flea but i am less confident about these two.

-vote Marshmallow Marshall

I quoted and responded with this. AT the same time Gikkle claimed MM killed Ikarus.

This is not a coincidence. We all had DH read on MM.

my last will was

hi bakermir the REDACTED here

night ? REDACTED hopefully they live

Here I softclaim because I believed busdriver was in danger so I decided to throw myself out there

@Innovation @bakermir @Flea the Magician @Auwt

If any of you are bus driver that swapped ME and IKARUS, please claim

Notice how Gikkle not pinging PoD here. This actually shows strong evidence they might be aware of PoD busdriver even from day 1 just as how they figured out MM DH. I don't think any villager in this game shown this much knowledge about other players and their roles. IT is also very shameful of them to blame me for PoD death, I have only stated the obvious at EoD. They were the one that kept signaling into the unknown.

Problem is..

I think seeing a vig without a gun/DH yeeted today is the best chance we have anyway

I don't think the bus driver should out because you guys can't see the hidden roles in the game atm and that creeps me out the most about Gikkle's posture

here I double confirm my support on MM lynch because they were always the best lynch we had yesterday. So Whoever is saying I tried to protect MM is wrong.

All of these happened HOURS before I openly claimed War Surgeon.


My night action choices were crap but thats because I didn't expect PoD to bus Gikkle into scumbot. I thought they would always bus Gikkle into themselves and if I targeted Gikkle, it would save PoD. The reason why I thought PoD always busses Gikkle was because Gikkle made it known to PoD they know about their role. You have to put yourself in PoD slot to see how the game looked to understand what I mean. PoD knew GIkkle was Triad and thought Triad would kill scumbot last night because PoD trusted me and thought Triad would never risk shooting into me and PoD. This is the wifom that me and PoD failed and triad got lucky with it.

Good news is: It pretty much looks terrible on Gikkle so PoD might be correct on their Innovation/Gikkle guess.
Bad news: If Auwt is Triad, they auto win this if Gikkle flips town.

I am inclined to vote Gikkle today but I still have a feeling Innovation execute is more secure.

[bakermir]

War Surgeon
Each night you may heal or bodyguard a player. You have two shots to heal a player, and unlimited shots to bodyguard players.
Healing will prevent a single non-sniper attack. Bodyguard will prevent all attacks at the expense of your life if they are attacked.
If there are two or more war surgeons protecting a player when they are attacked, and one of the surgeons is bodyguarding, the bodyguard dies. RNG where there is more than 1 bodyguard.

it would be hilarious if we are in this world and auwt wins this lol

[bakermir]

gikkle is too smart for his own good i think

[Gikkle]

Alright I guess if Auwt is going to be wolfing so hard I need to actually put a little more energy into this

I'll respond to the posts around 4pm bc I won't have much time on my computer before then

[Gikkle]

gikkle is too smart for his own good i think

Funny that you say this given the case seems to be based on the idea that Triad me made a series of suboptimal plays

I won't say any more about it tho because I'm gonna give my proper response later

[scumbot5679]

If town loses it may be my fault but that would mean Gikkle is town and scum are 1 of baker, auwt. I thought I could just get inno voted out without claiming but and not get insta killed but I guess it doesn't matter b/c someone will BG me. I'm detective and Inno visited Pod last night. Which means that he was the hidden triad (moulder). I believer that his "3rd hidden" was hint to his buddy that he was the hidden triad and that Baker hinted at being the CA. Sorry if I screwed up.

[scumbot5679]

although if bake is just the CA then that means that he stole WS from Gikkle so how'd he know that Gik was a WS before last night? or what if Gik's is the CA and stole WS from Bake?

[Gikkle]

If town loses it may be my fault but that would mean Gikkle is town and scum are 1 of baker, auwt. I thought I could just get inno voted out without claiming but and not get insta killed but I guess it doesn't matter b/c someone will BG me. I'm detective and Inno visited Pod last night. Which means that he was the hidden triad (moulder). I believer that his "3rd hidden" was hint to his buddy that he was the hidden triad and that Baker hinted at being the CA. Sorry if I screwed up.

Oh okay so this game is basically just mech solved then
I think detective + 2 Bodyguard claims just makes it so town always enters the game tomorrow with at least 2 town clears or a fake bodyguard outed?
Dragon Head would have to holster if we set this up correctly w/ me and baker being forced to go on specific targets

may we know what you did n1?

[scumbot5679]

I confirm that inno went nowhere

[scumbot5679]

gikkle not voting a guilty is *glare*

[scumbot5679]

so maybe auwt is right and its a gik/inno team

[Gikkle]

although if bake is just the CA then that means that he stole WS from Gikkle so how'd he know that Gik was a WS before last night? or what if Gik's is the CA and stole WS from Bake?

This was part of auwt's argument and I was gonna respond to the whole thing but with your mech I think we just win

CA doesn't have any incentive to claim the thing they stole
People's last wills easily indicates the flip was false + their fake flip would be easily disproven by the fact town hasn't lost yet (if anything if it WAS believable bc someone forgot to include their name they risk their triad buddies self outing bc they think they have majority)
And obviously when they're alive the CA swap can't be observed, so there's no way the CA can actually benefit from it
So I don't understand where the idea came from that CA has any kind of real incentive to claim the thing they swapped with

[Gikkle]

gikkle not voting a guilty is *glare*

I'm not voting anyone yet?
I don't typically vote till the last like 2 hours of day
I'll vote after we establish a mech plan tho bc I think this game is basically mech solvable

[scumbot5679]

it makes plenty of sense for a CA to claim the real role that they stole. If you stole bakes role just avoid lynching/nightkilling him

[Gikkle]

If you detective me for example
I guard baker or you
Baker guards you or me

You'd see me visit someone without them dying, confirming I'm not dragon head

Doesn't have to be exactly that, I haven't thought that far into it but smth like that

[scumbot5679]

I think that's a little silly in a way. Like yesterday stalling the MM lynch does a whole bunch of nothing and waiting for 3 more hours does ???? maybe in this case it gives awut a chance to get here but your "im going to wait until near deadline to vote" doesn't seem like the most pro-town meta that you are trying to build

[Gikkle]

it makes plenty of sense for a CA to claim the real role that they stole. If you stole bakes role just avoid lynching/nightkilling him

Why though? What benefit does CA get from it? The only way it'd be relevant to the game is if the CA died & people believed the claim, but that wouldn't even be helpful to the triad for reasons I just explained.

[Gikkle]

I think that's a little silly in a way. Like yesterday stalling the MM lynch does a whole bunch of nothing and waiting for 3 more hours does ???? maybe in this case it gives awut a chance to get here but your "im going to wait until near deadline to vote" doesn't seem like the most pro-town meta that you are trying to build

In this case I want to establish a mech plan so we can do the best possible course of action, I'd be willing to vote after we do that

also generally it's just better for town to have more discussion time so I don't really get how early voting is at all helpful (at least in this kinda setup)

[scumbot5679]

maybe I shouldn't have claimed, I dunno. I got a little worried when baker said "I am inclined to vote Gikkle today but I still have a feeling Innovation execute is more secure."

on the chance that you are town it just ends the game if bake and inno vote you but we can get the confirmed scum out today instead of maybe scum.

[Gikkle]

did you say what you did n1

[Gikkle]

So if I bodyguard you
Baker bodyguards me
You flip a coin to determine which of baker/me to track

DH is forced to holster because there's a 50% chance they lose the game
Town enters tomorrow with 2 mech townies OR a mech locked wolf
it won't be necessarily solved 100% of the time but it'll be significantly more winnable

[Gikkle]

So if I bodyguard you
Baker bodyguards me
You flip a coin to determine which of baker/me to track

DH is forced to holster because there's a 50% chance they lose the game
Town enters tomorrow with 2 mech townies OR a mech locked wolf
it won't be necessarily solved 100% of the time but it'll be significantly more winnable

And if baker or I deviates from this plan, then you just kill us
Thoughts?

[Gikkle]

Well if you disagree you can post about it but I'm going to go with it and expect both you and baker also to go with it

I'll vote now

-vote Innovation

[Auwt]

Im hammering, beware my hammer.

[Auwt]

-vote Innovation

[The Godfather]

Innovation has been hammered. Stand by for the host's review and day-end post!


Innovation (3 [L-0]): Auwt, scumbot5679, Gikkle

[MartinGG99]

EoD3

@Innovation has died! They were: Spoiler : flip : Dragon Head They had no last will.

Night 3 ends in ~27 hours.

@Auwt
@scumbot5679
@bakermir
@Gikkle


By sheer coincidence, I happened to check the thread the exact moment the hammer happened lol.

[MartinGG99]

No one died.

You all got ~48 hours to end this as skip is not possible.

@Auwt
@scumbot5679
@bakermir
@Gikkle

[scumbot5679]

I think this prob means Bake is scum b/c he went nowhere.

[bakermir]

I think this prob means Bake is scum b/c he went nowhere.

why would I go anywhere

[bakermir]

if you are referring to the Gikkle's plan then no I have no idea what was that about even

[bakermir]

I protected scumbot last night

I didn't protect Gikkle

[bakermir]

I had bluffed on D2 and actually used a bodyguard charge instead of doc charge. IT appears Gikkle or Auwt fell for it

[bakermir]

Anyway we are here today thanks to me. I have correctly guessed MM and Innovation.

I might fuck up today though. I am not good at FX

[scumbot5679]

I don't see why you wouldn't. You have a role and on the offchance that auwt is scum you should have been on Gikkle.

[bakermir]

I guess there is some credit to Gikkle for MM's pelt but honestly, reading MM was super easy and the fact that Gikkle used MM to busdriver/triad hunt doesn't sit right with me

Auwt pretty much has no pelts and have pushed for early hammer on D2. However, Auwt started showing towny colours on D3

I will need help on this

[scumbot5679]

you tried to get us to vote not MM and you weren't even voting inno besides early yestterday

[scumbot5679]

I can offer help in the form of a vote

[bakermir]

I don't see why you wouldn't. You have a role and on the offchance that auwt is scum you should have been on Gikkle.

That makes no sense. You are confirmed town because either Auwt TMI'd you or Gikkle tried to kill you last night, thats the information I have.

There is also a chance this still might be 2v2 and Triad failed to guess each other last night but I am gonna put that world at the back of my head for now

[scumbot5679]

if Giks was scum I'd be dead

[MartinGG99]

In case the vote-bot got completely reset, as I forgot to set it earlier.

[l]3[/vote]

[MartinGG99]

3 votes to hammer.

lol me

[bakermir]

you tried to get us to vote not MM and you weren't even voting inno besides early yestterday

I have been preaching for MM/Inno the entire time. Are you forgetting things?

Just because my vote wasn't there EoD doesn't mean I am trying to change the direction of votes. I have voiced my support and actually gave good leads on both lynches

[scumbot5679]

-vote bakermir

[scumbot5679]

guy, you tried to argue that MM was a bad vote b/c you fake docced him

[bakermir]

if Giks was scum I'd be dead

You are alive because I doc'd you. We don't even know if Gikkle is War Surgeon. There is a chance they can be but honestly Auwt's butler claim is more believable when it comes to mech