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  1. #1

    The Ideal Balance for Sc2 Mafia 2.0

    The Ideal Balance for Sc2 Mafia 2.0

    Who should balance Mafia 2.0?

    We should first eliminate the ones who shouldn’t be listened to:

    -Players with less than 5000 games played on the game mode because they don’t have enough experience.

    -Players who mostly played on forum Mafia. These players typically understand a game, but they understand ANOTHER game, a game where players all have hours to read messages, and make decisions in consequences. These slow paced forum games allow subtle mind games and pedantic long posts… but it’s a totally different thing from understanding Sc2 Mafia, a rather fast paced version of Mafia.

    It leaves only players like me. Since we spent so much time playing, we understand particularly well the game mechanics, and more importantly the meta-game.



    What makes a good role in Sc2 Mafia?

    A role must be fun to play as of course… but that’s not all.

    Often, people have role ideas that seem “fun”.
    Example: “A Judge who can call 2 courts and decide himself who is going to be lynched!”.
    For inexperienced players, it might seem like a fun mechanic, but veterans like us understand the consequences of such a role in our game:
    During a court, everyone is going to flood the chat log with caps lock messages to try to influence the Judge resulting in a visual rape for those who still bother reading the chat.
    It prevents other players from doing what is ESSENTIAL in a game of Mafia, DISCUSSING and VOTING to decide who is going to be lynched during the day.

    This example illustrates my point, a good role isn’t a role that “seems fun to play”, but a role that makes the game interesting for all players.



    Balance of the Roles


    -Armorsmith

    Actions: Give a one use vest to a target which when used will make them night immune for one night.

    Options:
    1 armors allowed (Default: ON)
    2 armors allowed (Default: OFF)
    Can Target Self (Default: OFF)


    -Enchantress
    Actions: Attract a target to target you and repel a target away from you. Luring a Witch will kill the Enchantress. Repelling a Witch will kill the Witch. If a Witch targets an Enchantress she will die. Magical battles.

    Options:
    2 spells allowed (Default: ON)
    1 spell allowed (Default: OFF)
    Knows if Repel Target Visited (Default: OFF)
    Lure victim knows he is controlled (Default: ON)
    Repel Targets Self Target (Default: OFF)


    -Escort
    The option for “Detects block-immune target” should be removed. This option almost reveals the Godfather to the Escort.

    -Jailor
    Jailor has 1 execution by default or 0 with an option.
    Why? Because the current Jailor role gives an impression to new players that it’s the “safest” option to type “-skip” so the Jailor(s) can jail instead of voting to put players on trial. “Let the Jailor jail.” instead of lets try to get informations and decide who die ourselves.

    -Vigilante
    The Vigilante has 1 bullet by default or 2 with an option. The option for 3 or 4 is removed.
    The current Vigilante role with 3 or 4 bullets gives the impression to less experienced players that it’s better to not bother voting and to kill themselves.

    -Mayor
    The option for “Vote counts for 4” is removed.

    -Marshall
    The options for “2 group executions allowed”, “4 executions per group” are removed.



    -Jester
    The role is kept the way it is now. “-Added option for all Jester guilty voters to suicide. “ is not added.
    Why? Because the Jester kill mechanic dissuades players, particularly beginners who don’t understand what they gain or loose in term of probabilities, from voting Guilty at each trials. This option would dissuade even more players from voting and break the game.

    -Judge
    The chat during a court is no longer anonymous but the votes are. The Judge’s vote during a court counts for 1 or 2 with an option.
    The options for “2 courts call allowed”, “1 day between court calls”, “Court vote counts for 3”, “Court vote counts for 4” are all removed.


    -Investigator
    The current version of the Investigator is a very balanced role and shouldn’t be reverted to the Investigator of 2011 that restricted a lot what evildoers could claim.

    -Spy
    The option “Can see Mafia/Triad Kill” is removed. This option only disadvantages the Neutral Killers and Neutral Killers are already very unlikely to win the way it is.
    The ability of the spy to see the chat of the Mafia is now an option.

    -Citizen
    I voluntarily talk about the Citizen last, because it’s the most important role in my opinion.
    Noobs and even intermediate players tend to think that Citizens are useless, a role that’s good only to be removed from each setup but Citizens can do what’s the most important in this game, type and vote.
    By making less overpowered the other roles, the Citizen suddenly becomes what it should have always been, an important member of the Town.

    The “Win ties with the Mafia/Triad” option must be removed too.
    Why?
    1. Because it would make the game more interesting during the night for the Mafia who has to determine who is the bigger threat when they decide to kill. The Mafia would then have to specifically target more threatening roles of the Town, such as the Jailor or Doctor.

    2. Removing this option also makes the Citizen more fun to play as because players tend to prefer to be alive and by being a lower priority to kill for the Mafia, the Citizen tends to live longer.



    General changes

    -The minimum Day Length is now 1 min and 30 seconds instead of 1 minutes.

    -The possibility to have the Cult in the Neutral Evil slot and the Mafia/Triad in one setup is removed. (Anyone who played a setup like that knows it ruins the game.)

    -A new mechanic to prevent spam. If Player A types 3 times the same message in a row in less than 20 seconds, Player A would be removed from the game and struck by lightnings.
    “Player A: The Town sucks
    Player A: The Town sucks
    Player A: The Town sucks
    *Player A has been kicked from the game.*”



    Changes of the Rules

    Clearer rules would make it easier to understand what’s authorized and what’s not. There are different rules on the wiki, sc2mafia.com, and inside the game. No one really knows what the rules for this game are, moderators included!
    A rule to punish the spam in the chat by a week temporary ban would be a good addition.



    Conclusion

    It’s great that someone finally takes the time to update our game. Some of the changes proposed by Frinckles in his patch note are excellent, particularly the modifications of the user interface and the new Poisoner but the roles must be designed so that the game stays interesting in practice on the long term by being properly balanced instead of being appealing only on paper.
    Last edited by Anderson; July 25th, 2019 at 09:48 AM.

  2. #2

    Re: The Ideal Balance for Sc2 Mafia 2.0

    You are making a detailed balance thread in the time when most of the players use any random as a legit setup option. Seems pretty pointless to me. And still i don't agree on atleast half of the points u make. And yes i have played atleast 5k games, i have like 4k mafia replays on the disc right now and i removed like 2k replays earlier and this is only on NA server.

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  6. #6

    Re: The Ideal Balance for Sc2 Mafia 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Magoroth View Post
    I feel like restricting hosts' options with regards to roles and whatnot is never a good idea tbh.
    I 100% agree with this. The mod is already limited enough; if you don't want X option in your game, just remember to repick the person's save if you see it's the same.

    Also, FM players are usually much better than people who didn't touch FM, and have a better insight about game mechanics. And no, I'm not self-complimenting here lol, it's just true.


    To address your suggestions, I think the "all guilty voters suicide" on Jester was more of a joke than an actual thing.
    Elector is a very cool role IMO, why would you want it removed?

    I agree with your view of the Citizen wholeheartedly, and also agree that it shouldn't win ties with Mafia simply because it's the vanilla town role, the weakest of them all. I disagree with the "nerf everything else to make citizen "better"" policy, though. Power roles are powerful, Citizens are vanilla, and aren't powerful. That's the idea. Making saves with less powerful power roles, with the amount of settings available, would do the same thing you want to do, while not causing a ton of riots all over the community because "the power roles are now shit".


    Edit: And fyi, I have been playing the mod for years, and have a bit more than 14k points, + 2k on another account.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Hey peter View Post
    There are two wolves inside you. One is addicted to crack. The other one is also addicted to crack. You are addicted to crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    MM IS AN ANTI-VAXXER

  7. #7

    Re: The Ideal Balance for Sc2 Mafia 2.0

    Also, FM players are usually much better than people who didn't touch FM, and have a better insight about game mechanics. And no, I'm not self-complimenting here lol, it's just true.
    From my experience, the typical FM players who come to Sc2 Mafia are arrogant, overestimating how their forum skills might help them and totally disconnected from the player base.
    None the less, they do have some knowledge and can be fun to play with.
    It’s always a joy to see one be sent on trial, type 5 lines of complicated and original defense instead of their role/LW.

    I feel like restricting hosts' options with regards to roles and whatnot is never a good idea tbh.
    Things like the randomizers, whether the cult is excluded from the Neutral Evil, the tuning of the roles, … aren’t accessible before the game starts. Even things like game duration are in a very dark grey on a black background and very hard to notice.
    It results in a huge amount of time wasted in leave trains and poorly tuned setups.

    Do you consider the pleasure of the griefer who makes a setup specifically to make everyone leave more important than the one of those who want to play properly?

    The host having less freedom to impose a poor setup results in more freedom and fun for all players.
    Last edited by Anderson; July 22nd, 2019 at 08:56 PM.

  8. #8

    Re: The Ideal Balance for Sc2 Mafia 2.0

    There's a lot happening in this post, but I appreciate the effort of typing it up Anderson.

    For your balance changes: 1: Elector will be tested first 2: Omni-Jester is not in the patch 3: No Idea about Judge 4: No changes to the generator planned for now 5: I'll kill spamming like I killed pause.

    Onto the bigger issue here:

    The people 'balancing' Mafia are Elixir, Arrow & myself with input from other Super-moderators. I'll occasionally ask vetted players online about their thoughts. The capacity to which Mafia can be balanced isn't completely our responsibility. If people want to play with certain options they will. People may leave-train, people may be toxic -- but that's not on us, just file a report or kick them from your lobby. I've been trying my best in-game to push people to being open minded about setups with wacky stuff or even playing with 14 players because one leaver couldn't hold it together but that's a community effort and it takes time.
    On removing options; Most of you know I feel strongly about certain things like PM's or Judge talking at night, but those are mechanics that I'm simply okay with have options for. I've had plenty of people agree/disagree with me and though I haven't changed my opinion, I accept that people may want to play the game differently. That's why options exist and I've found a way to promote a balanced platform in other ways that don't interfere with save-creators via the variants menu.
    There aren't many options that have been nominated for outright removal from the game, usually only ones that would increase discussion or uncomplicated things by being removed. Role-block immunity (as a whole) was one of them, the other was the Spy being able to hear Mafia at night (and being given something else instead.) The difference between "But I like to play this way and I'm the exception" and "This role or option is way too damn oppressive to a role/faction" is what I'm looking for as a developer. It works the same way for options being put into the game; Some people genuinely like Omni-Jester but it's a pretty oppressive option -- despite this, if I actually did put it in the game we all know it would be toggled on in 75% of lobbies.

    One last thing is that, I'm confident we've gotten the input and have the experience to update Mafia in a cool way. This is a hobby for a lot of people who don't get paid to do it, whether they're developing FM setups, SC2Mafia, auditing reports or running the website. Have some faith in us. c: Plus Rumox gave me 50,000 points one time, so yeah.

    Hope that answered stuff.
    Last edited by Frinckles; July 23rd, 2019 at 12:05 PM.

  9. #9

    Re: The Ideal Balance for Sc2 Mafia 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Anderson View Post



    Things like the randomizers, whether the cult is excluded from the Neutral Evil, the tuning of the roles, … aren’t accessible before the game starts. Even things like game duration are in a very dark grey on a black background and very hard to notice.
    It results in a huge amount of time wasted in leave trains and poorly tuned setups.
    Aside from a lot of the goofiness (5000 games to have any input?) I agree with this point whole heartedly. The cult, for example, is a completely broken game mechanic when inserted into more 'standard' saves as a chance to spawn. There is no way to see this until the game starts. Only the macro settings around pms, etc, and even then there isn't much time before the game starts to look at these.


    Furthermore, cult should be removed from the neutral evil slot. If you want cult it should be in the role list with the 15 descriptions (Town Invest, Triad Support, etc).
    Last edited by renegade; July 23rd, 2019 at 12:31 PM.

  10. #10

    Re: The Ideal Balance for Sc2 Mafia 2.0

    It works the same way for options being put into the game; Some people genuinely like Omni-Jester but it's a pretty oppressive option -- despite this, if I actually did put it in the game we all know it would be toggled on in 75% of lobbies.
    In practice, people rarely have the patience or skill to make a setup balanced. They see a mechanic that seems fun and check this option ON and repeat it for all roles. Balancing a setup is something complicated that is only learned through countless hours of game time.
    Even the person who designed the current default setup, Chigaco, did not know how to make something fun for the player base at the time. I am sure it is someone intelligent and educated, but this person failed. Anyone who played this game a lot knows that putting Chigaco is one of the best ways to trigger a leave-train.

    And if a developer didn’t know at the time how to tune a setup, then how can we expect players who played the game only occasionally to do it properly?

    It’s precisely why I made this proposal for a better balance, to prevent the same thing from happening to other options with a destructive impact on the game.


    I agree with this point wholeheartedly. The cult, for example, is a completely broken game mechanic when inserted into more 'standard' saves as a chance to spawn. There is no way to see this until the game starts. Only the macro settings around pms, etc, and even then there isn't much time before the game starts to look at these.


    Furthermore, cult should be removed from the neutral evil slot.
    Exactly!

    If Renegade shares my point of view, it’s not because he guessed that I was right, but because he played many times in public lobbies with setups of this type and concluded from his real experience that it’s a frustrating mechanic for anyone who has the misfortune to play with a setup of this kind.

    One last thing is that, I'm confident we've gotten the input and have the experience to update Mafia in a cool way. This is a hobby for a lot of people who don't get paid to do it, whether they're developing FM setups, SC2Mafia, auditing reports or running the website.
    Yes, thank you for your work. It’s awesome that you take the time to update this map.
    Our posts might seem overcritical but we are grateful for your efforts.



    After playing thousands of games, we know what each option does concretely when applied on a public lobby.
    That’s why our suggestions are a precious source of information to help you understand realities that we learned by playing over and over so you can update the game in a way that positively impacts everyone.
    Last edited by Anderson; July 25th, 2019 at 09:41 AM.

  11. #11

    Re: The Ideal Balance for Sc2 Mafia 2.0

    Well i can agree only with Cult, it's just objectively not a neutral evil, it doesn't even have the same win condition as other neutral evils. And maybe on Marshall, 8 lynchs in total is more than half of the players, count in night deaths and you can just lynch everyone in game. But everything else depends on a setup, every role setup like 4 shots Vigilante or Investigator exact role or Judge 4 votes 2 courts could be used in specialized setups built around those roles and this shouldn't be limited. I don't agree on Citizen it is just not interesting role in sc2 mafia where communication and chat is limited because of limited time, i can see this role work in FM but i really don't see a reason to put citizens in every sc2 mafia save. Putting too many roles like Sheriff, Doctor, Citizen, Bodyguard ends up in a massive random lynch because there isn't that much information you can get from chatting and voting alone, especially that sc2 mafia is public, there are too many new players to trust only in someone's day activity. And in "active" town roles already are roles that are more dangerous than others so mafia still needs to target right people to win. I don't want to say anything about new roles because i didn't see them in action yet. And other role changes you suggest aren't wrong only because you should be able to make powerfull roles for other setups than 933, even in 933 it makes them too weak. Jailor should be able to execute to threaten his targets, if Jailor couldn't execute no one would tell him a true role if there was chance for a kidnapper. He should be able to execute because Serial Killer can kill him if he doesn't execute him. He should be able to execute because his role is easy to block just by lynching so you can rarely even use his ability. I don't agree on removing an option for seeing mafia kills as Spy, i do agree on limiting the ability to read the chat. Judge needs to have 2 courts 2 votes in 933 to make him more dangerous to mafia or neutral killer, second court increases his chances to win solo greatly and neutral evils should be able to do this. On the Vigilante thing, letting vigilante shoot instead of lynching only happens if Vigilante is trialed day 2 and it is not only tied to Vigilante if someone claimed Bus Driver for example it would be the same. It's not because of his ability to kill it's just because of his ability to confirm himself. In mid-late game it won't happen because Vigilante can't kill through night immunity. And because of this night immunity Vigilante needs to have 3 shots, because those 3 shots aren't guaranteed kills and still you take a risk every time you shoot. If mafia made themself so obvious that Vigilante without a doubt can kill him this means mafia made a mistake. Escort detecting role block immune targets isn't that bad, i don't use it in my setup but i don't see a reason to remove it entirely because GF isn't the only role that is rb immune, obviously Escort is so that is viable fake claim for GF, atleast for a while but most importantly Veteran is also rb immune and that is one of the easiest claim to make for GF so i don't see a problem here.

    And all in all i don't believe in limiting setup options because players are using them in a wrong way, i believe we should just explain to them what is bad in a setup and why. The only problem is that sc2 mafia staff isn't helping at the moment, they are either using any random setups themselfs or some completely troll and boring setups like putting 10 jesters or 10 killing roles in.
    Last edited by RufusPL; July 25th, 2019 at 10:05 AM.

  12. #12

    Re: The Ideal Balance for Sc2 Mafia 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Anderson View Post


    In practice, people rarely have the patience or skill to make a setup balanced. They see a mechanic that seems fun and check this option ON and repeat it for all roles. Balancing a setup is something complicated that is only learned through countless hours of game time.
    Even the person who designed the current default setup, Chigaco, did not know how to make something fun for the player base at the time. I am sure it is someone intelligent and educated, but this person failed. Anyone who played this game a lot knows that putting Chigaco is one of the best ways to trigger a leave-train.

    And if a developer didnít know at the time how to tune a setup, then how can we expect players who played the game only occasionally to do it properly?

    Itís precisely why I made this proposal for a better balance, to prevent the same thing from happening to other options with a destructive impact on the game.




    Exactly!

    If Renegade shares my point of view, itís not because he guessed that I was right, but because he played many times in public lobbies with setups of this type and concluded from his real experience that itís a frustrating mechanic for anyone who has the misfortune to play with a setup of this kind.



    Yes, thank you for your work. Itís awesome that you take the time to update this map.
    Our posts might seem overcritical but we are grateful for your efforts.



    After playing thousands of games, we know what each option does concretely when applied on a public lobby.
    Thatís why our suggestions are a precious source of information to help you understand realities that we learned by playing over and over so you can update the game in a way that positively impacts everyone.
    Chicago is the best and most successful troll save by far.

  13. #13

  14. #14

    Re: The Ideal Balance for Sc2 Mafia 2.0









    Is the current version of the Judge really a role that is enriching the game, allowing you to have more possibilities for a pleasant experience?
    Or is it a role that prevents anything interesting from happening by provoking a general hysteria of meaningless spam?
    Do you really want to keep the possibility to ruin 2 in-game days this way knowing that it's exceptional when a game lasts more than 9 days?


    What about the majority who wants to deceive or find out who the Mafia is by discussing?

  15. #15

    Re: The Ideal Balance for Sc2 Mafia 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Anderson View Post
    What about the majority who wants to deceive or find out who the Mafia is by discussing?

    Majority wants to have 4 votes 2 courts as judge, almost everytime judge finds out he is reduced to 2 votes he either complains about host being shit or leaves the game right away.

    And about the Judge gameplay. Town doesn't have to vote during court at all if Judge has 2 votes. Town can also easly lynch Triad or Neutral on Judge court based on the previous actions they made. So this role is interactive and that's most important. Spam is something that always will be there if unless 1 person spams the rest also has to do it whatever part of the game it is. Also if Judge is smart he will save the second court untill the very endgame.

  16. #16

    Re: The Ideal Balance for Sc2 Mafia 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Anderson View Post

    Is the current version of the Judge really a role that is enriching the game, allowing you to have more possibilities for a pleasant experience?
    Or is it a role that prevents anything interesting from happening by provoking a general hysteria of meaningless spam?
    Do you really want to keep the possibility to ruin 2 in-game days this way knowing that it's exceptional when a game lasts more than 9 days?


    What about the majority who wants to deceive or find out who the Mafia is by discussing?
    When over-tuned, it's a very strong role for sure. Alongside Mayor and Marshal, they have the power to swing a game for or against their own faction easily and that's one of the reason they're unique. I'm not a big fan of games being substantially influenced by a single person but I know there are some people who enjoy playing those setups. Overall, those 3 are a big headache balance-wise and it's gonna take a little time before I revisit them. Anyway spamming will be addressed in the patch, so no worries.
    Now mechanically, a major gripe I have with Judge (and this is gonna sound weird) is that it doesn't feel like a Mafia role. The Judge, Scum and Townies can make reads on players throughout the game and vote during court anonymously based off of that -- sure. But when it comes down to it, the entire gimmick is literally a check to see which team can click a button faster. It's a mini-game slapped into the middle of everything else and from a design perspective, it seems a little out-of-place even for SC2Mafia. Obviously I'm not planning on changing anything about Judge at this moment but I think it's a problem worth addressing since it directly relates to how successful the role is.
    Last edited by Frinckles; July 26th, 2019 at 10:14 AM.

  17. #17

    Re: The Ideal Balance for Sc2 Mafia 2.0

    RufusPL’s replies are very defeatist. To summarize his views, it’s “The moderators should work for free as babysitters for the community, but they aren’t any better than the community, so it’s pointless to even try to make things better.”

    I believe Mafia can be radically improved with what I propose and it wouldn’t require for moderators to do additional work.


    Anyway spamming will be addressed in the patch, so no worries.
    This is an excellent news.

    When over-tuned, it's a very strong role for sure. […] Overall, those 3 are a big headache balance-wise and it's gonna take a little time before I revisit them.
    Yes Frinckles, you are exposing the problems of these 3 roles well in your last message. That’s why I made this post, to save you from the headache of finding the solution by giving it to you right away with all the explanations.

    The solution to the problem of some roles being over-tuned is simply to restrict the way they can be tuned.







    Mafia is like a fragile but beautiful vase we enjoy. That’s why there are so many griefers on our game. It’s so easy to break it…
    It could break by itself, be pushed accidentally or intentionally and explode on the floor, it could be broken with a hammer, it could be tainted with paint, someone could defecate in it, etc…
    Is it really a good thing that our vase can be ruined so easily, even accidentally?
    No! We would benefit from protecting our vase with more reasonable game mechanics so we can all appreciate it a bit more.
    Last edited by Anderson; August 3rd, 2019 at 08:01 PM.

  18. #18

    Re: The Ideal Balance for Sc2 Mafia 2.0

    I don't expect any additional work from sc2mafia staff i don't need them to penalize anybody, i'm actually very thankfull that they are going to implement some changes after so long. I'm just very, very annoyed by implenting any random slot in almost every setup lately and most members of the staff use either any random or completely troll setups (like Kira). Just if member of the staff plays the game he should in my opinion lead with good example and help improve the balance instead of using obviously balance breaking slot which is Any Random set to be Town/Neutral or even sometimes Triad and Mafia. Especially when it's sometimes hard to get even a decent setup this year.

  19. #19

    Re: The Ideal Balance for Sc2 Mafia 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by RufusPL View Post
    I don't expect any additional work from sc2mafia staff i don't need them to penalize anybody, i'm actually very thankfull that they are going to implement some changes after so long. I'm just very, very annoyed by implenting any random slot in almost every setup lately and most members of the staff use either any random or completely troll setups (like Kira). Just if member of the staff plays the game he should in my opinion lead with good example and help improve the balance instead of using obviously balance breaking slot which is Any Random set to be Town/Neutral or even sometimes Triad and Mafia. Especially when it's sometimes hard to get even a decent setup this year.
    Why do you believe that an any random which is restricted to town or non neutral killing is balance breaking? Itís a 50-50 to make it 933 or 834. 933 is undeniably town favored. Even 834 favors town if there are zero citizens and max 1 neut killer. I get that some people allow the any random to be a killing role but thatís a separate issue as itís not the normal 8331 save
    Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Jar Jar the wise?

  20. #20

    Re: The Ideal Balance for Sc2 Mafia 2.0

    I don't believe 9/3/3 is town favoured. 9/3/3 means town barely has the majority at game start. Granted, one of those non-Town is a benign who might be pro-Town, but that's not very common.
    I wouldn't go as far as stating that one any random slot is (generally) balance-breaking, but in some cases it can be. That any random slot is more likely than not town - but the "any random" slot is kinda difficult to confirm. It actually makes the game a bit more difficult for the town (which can be fun, it makes role counting less viable) but it can make the game a bit too difficult (or unpredictable) at times :P
    I personally dislike Any Random but that's just me.

    Anyway, what I wanted to add is that Judge is indeed not a very well-balanced role. I see that the main issue you're having with the Judge is the fact that its court ability turns the game into one of "who clicks the button first" and into spam fest. I agree with Frinckles and Anderson in that it isn't very fun when that happens; but I don't think forcing hosts to only give the Judge one court is a good idea. Why not add a slow mode that triggers when the Judge courts, so people can only post once every two seconds?

    And maybe have the votes during court be FINAL so the Judge actually has to think about who to vote (and the Mafia too).
    Last edited by Magoroth; August 4th, 2019 at 08:26 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by blinkskater View Post
    Polish my nuts and serve me a milkshake. Anyone who uses scum syntax will be lynched.

 

 

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