Player Conduct

[Damus_Graves]

Is there a particular reason why this site is still in the mindset that it is acceptable behavior to trash people in games?
Im not sure why it has been deemed acceptable to tell people to shut up and sheep or to be intentionally abrasive to the way a person is playing.
There needs to be a greater emphasis on targeting the caliber of a players post, and less shitting on a players character.

As a playerbase there should be a standard of play that is held up. It shouldnt be acceptable to have a defense/response that just completely shit on character. Its a suffocating style of play and breeds resentment. We are here to enjoy these games and enjoy the plays that our playerbase gets creative with.

You cannot respond to questions/pressure with

"lol your fking dumb if you can even think thats whats happening. start following the game and learn to read."

Don't instantly attack character. Learn to respond to pressure and learn how to defend yourself from accusations.
When you dig into a players character then this usually escalates to a more serious, and disgusting, argument.
it turns into these shitfests where people are just saying

" you need to stop signing for these games, honestly your terrible. listen to everyone else and just walk away for now"

Like, no one is going to want to play with you if all you can offer in a game is flat and aggressive style posts that degrade your fellow players.

[Slaol]

I will be the first to admit I can get abrasive and should work on that. However i do my best to not let it build if i can. I try to criticize play, and even discuss betterment in game when applicable. I also go out of my way to apologize when i feel it's been felt as personal. I think it's okay to get a bit hot in a single game, but it should never matter past that game and often even the day.

I carry no ill will about FM and I'd hope you dont either.

[Cryptonic]

Ya sloal u vanity chaser

[yzb25]

You should try to talk to people who piss you off OOG. You tend to find those people are actually pretty cool and this game just brings the worse out of them.

p;edit that's not meant to justify their behaviour obvs

[Bahkieh]

Is there a particular reason why this site is still in the mindset that it is acceptable behavior to trash people in games?
Im not sure why it has been deemed acceptable to tell people to shut up and sheep or to be intentionally abrasive to the way a person is playing.
There needs to be a greater emphasis on targeting the caliber of a players post, and less shitting on a players character.

As a playerbase there should be a standard of play that is held up. It shouldnt be acceptable to have a defense/response that just completely shit on character. Its a suffocating style of play and breeds resentment. We are here to enjoy these games and enjoy the plays that our playerbase gets creative with.

You cannot respond to questions/pressure with

Don't instantly attack character. Learn to respond to pressure and learn how to defend yourself from accusations.
When you dig into a players character then this usually escalates to a more serious, and disgusting, argument.
it turns into these shitfests where people are just saying

Like, no one is going to want to play with you if all you can offer in a game is flat and aggressive style posts that degrade your fellow players.

Well Said

[rumox]

STFU

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Yes, I 100% agree that this is an issue and felt the need to make such a thread too.

The TL;DR of Damus' post is basically: Don't attack people personally.

Attack their play, their reads if you want to, but if you notice you start calling the person shitty or things like that, step back, log off for a bit if it's needed, things like that. Another good indicator of it is if your fellow players are starting to tell you to calm down. We play this game to win, yes, but also to have fun: this means that aggressive or toxic behavior is very harmful, just like gamethrow is. Even if you want to use toxicity as a strategy, it doesn't make the game fun for anyone.

Also yzb is right: it's not because you hate someone in-game that this person is not nice out of the game.


Have fun everyone

[Marshmallow Marshall]

STFU

the art of breaking a serious thread with the exact thing it denounces lol

[Cryptonic]

the art of breaking a serious thread with the exact thing it denounces lol

thatsthejoke

[Yayap]

I strongly think this needs to be addressed by the players. It's pretty bad that I have to accept player bashing as a standard defense because the meta makes it acceptable. As an annalist type player, that kind of defense does nothing to help the game and if anything - I suspect that person even more but know that I can't do anything about it.

Seriously, sometimes I wish I were vigilante / any town killing role just to policy kill these players even though they may be town - to try to destroy the meta that this is "ok".

[Cryptonic]

it is sad that it's the meta here, but it's inevitable. it's always that the majority of the player base plays Sc2Mafia before forum mafia. due to the time limitations in Sc2Mafia, the players need to be aggressive in day chat to accomplish stuff; it doesn't translate over to fm well.

I think players really need to focus on making fewer and more meaningful posts. take time before posting, and really consider what they're going to say. 99% of the insults are just knee jerk reactions in a several hundred post day. I bet the day would be a lot more cordial if people didn't spam threads lol. i don't think this will ever happen, but something to consider.

[Yayap]

I think players really need to focus on making fewer and more meaningful posts. take time before posting, and really consider what they're going to say. 99% of the insults are just knee jerk reactions in a several hundred post day. I bet the day would be a lot more cordial if people didn't spam threads lol. i don't think this will ever happen, but something to consider.

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Cryptonic again."

[Brendan]

Is there a particular reason why this site is still in the mindset that it is acceptable behavior to trash people in games?
Im not sure why it has been deemed acceptable to tell people to shut up and sheep or to be intentionally abrasive to the way a person is playing.
There needs to be a greater emphasis on targeting the caliber of a players post, and less shitting on a players character.

As a playerbase there should be a standard of play that is held up. It shouldnt be acceptable to have a defense/response that just completely shit on character. Its a suffocating style of play and breeds resentment. We are here to enjoy these games and enjoy the plays that our playerbase gets creative with.

You cannot respond to questions/pressure with

Don't instantly attack character. Learn to respond to pressure and learn how to defend yourself from accusations.
When you dig into a players character then this usually escalates to a more serious, and disgusting, argument.
it turns into these shitfests where people are just saying

Like, no one is going to want to play with you if all you can offer in a game is flat and aggressive style posts that degrade your fellow players.

You can be staff again if you want bro, you were always good at making rules.

[AIVION]

You can be staff again if you want bro, you were always good at making rules.

DOOO ITT!~

@Damus_Graves

=)

[GoatseOntheCupboard]

lotta gay ass MFers in this thread lol

[Marshmallow Marshall]

You can be staff again if you want bro, you were always good at making rules.

That would actually be great

[Ganelon]

I can be pretty aggressive at times, but it's rare for me. Usually whenever the game crosses into personal territory, I just apologize to the person in question and no ill-will is carried over out of the game. I do need to work on that, but I wouldn't really call myself a toxic player.
I do admit that some players have a hard time conceiving as to how someone else can scumread them and just call others "low-IQ hot messes". That can get pretty annoying, especially if you're not secure in your own reads. Otherwise, it's kind of funny/sad, but it's regardless not part of the game.

[yzb25]

it is sad that it's the meta here, but it's inevitable. it's always that the majority of the player base plays Sc2Mafia before forum mafia. due to the time limitations in Sc2Mafia, the players need to be aggressive in day chat to accomplish stuff; it doesn't translate over to fm well.

I think players really need to focus on making fewer and more meaningful posts. take time before posting, and really consider what they're going to say. 99% of the insults are just knee jerk reactions in a several hundred post day. I bet the day would be a lot more cordial if people didn't spam threads lol. i don't think this will ever happen, but something to consider.

I agree. Honestly, the post-flood-insults tire me out much more than the little jabs. If someone goes on a little tantrum for a few posts that's one thing - we're all human. But when someone spends like 50 posts having repetitive, draining arguments with the same person that's when it crosses the line into pathological imo. Don't get me started on the arguments that last 100s heheh.

I think tempmuting two players who are clearly making the game stagnate isn't a terrible idea. Because most of the time they just need to get their head out of some unhealthy cycle. Or building some toughly-enforced-mechanic into the setup which limits how much interaction two players can have with one another (like a rule that places a limit on how many times you can interact with the same player). I don't think anyone can say with a straight face they needed 50 replies to a player to get all their points across LOL.

I'd be less open to perma-banning apart from in extreme cases like duck, because I think a lot of these players have the potential to get over their issues if the system handles them appropriately. And temp-banning just stalls the issue.

[blinkskater]

I can be pretty aggressive at times, but it's rare for me. Usually whenever the game crosses into personal territory, I just apologize to the person in question and no ill-will is carried over out of the game. I do need to work on that, but I wouldn't really call myself a toxic player.
I do admit that some players have a hard time conceiving as to how someone else can scumread them and just call others "low-IQ hot messes". That can get pretty annoying, especially if you're not secure in your own reads. Otherwise, it's kind of funny/sad, but it's regardless not part of the game.

We have fun when we fight lol

[blinkskater]

I think everyones missing a key ingrediant here....but im not going to say it because its one of my ways to read a players alignment =D

[Damus_Graves]

I think everyones missing a key ingrediant here....but im not going to say it because its one of my ways to read a players alignment =D

If one of the ways you read players alignment is connected to the way they are treating fellow players I believe that is a flawed method of analysis.

[blinkskater]

If one of the ways you read players alignment is connected to the way they are treating fellow players I believe that is a flawed method of analysis.

No its not that lol.

[Damus_Graves]

No its not that lol.

Ok. But that is the current subject that we are debating.. So I dont truly understand your point. Would you mind explaining?

[blinkskater]

Ok. But that is the current subject that we are debating.. So I dont truly understand your point. Would you mind explaining?

Im just being vague and mischievous =D

[Ganelon]

it's not fun when someone's defense to your calling them scum is "you're retarded" / low-IQ/ your reads are shit/ whatever.

and it's not alignment indicative, necessarily.

I refuse to read someone for statements like those.

Edit: This wasn't necessarily in response to your points, blink. I feel like I know what you're saying, and I guess that's a legitimate play style to some extent, but I myself wouldn't use it. I'm not a good enough player to use emotional reads. They don't 100% correlate with alignment on a player-by-player basis.

As for myself, I feel that reading into what one is doing in the game thread contextually is probably the surest (although not necessarily the easiest) and simplest way of figuring out someone's alignment/role/whatever.

[Ganelon]

That being said, if someone's reads are shit and they refuse to listen to other players, all whilst believing themselves to be the gods of forum mafia, they're the ones that are toxic.

This game is fundamentally a cooperative game. It's about reaching a consensus, and it also has to be fun for other players, not just for you. You're also not going to convince anyone of the validity of your points if you tunnel and ignore everyone else.

[Slaol]

That being said, if someone's reads are shit and they refuse to listen to other players, all whilst believing themselves to be the gods of forum mafia, they're the ones that are toxic.

This game is fundamentally a cooperative game. It's about reaching a consensus, and it also has to be fun for other players, not just for you. You're also not going to convince anyone of the validity of your points if you tunnel and ignore everyone else.

Amen my dude

[Cryptonic]

Not proud of it, but i definitely have used insults to demoralize players to get Town Leader position. Idk seemed like a good idea at the time lol

[DJarJar]

Well, what you’re all saying is fine and well but once you’re into one of these arguments you’re kind of stuck. If you suddenly back down or try to quit the argument it makes you look scummy (assuming the argument is at least somewhat game related). I mean, even if you’d say out of context that you generally wouldn’t scum read somebody for de-escalating a situation - in the heat of the moment you think that if you “lose” the argument that people will scumread you for it. Certainly your “opponent” will probably scumpaint you pretty heavily for it, which just baits you back into the argument.
I guess my point is - there aren’t a ton of ways you can rebutt their scumpainting without reigniting things, but if you ignore their painting then it doesn’t look good for you.

I guess the solution then is to not get into such arguments in the first place, but that would probably require people to get over their existing grudges/hatreds... a big ask for the sc2mafia community!

[Cryptonic]

Honestly, if you are bringing outside stuff into a game, or saying stuff from a game outside of it... you may not be mature enough

[Damus_Graves]

Well, what you’re all saying is fine and well but once you’re into one of these arguments you’re kind of stuck. If you suddenly back down or try to quit the argument it makes you look scummy (assuming the argument is at least somewhat game related). I mean, even if you’d say out of context that you generally wouldn’t scum read somebody for de-escalating a situation - in the heat of the moment you think that if you “lose” the argument that people will scumread you for it. Certainly your “opponent” will probably scumpaint you pretty heavily for it, which just baits you back into the argument.
I guess my point is - there aren’t a ton of ways you can rebutt their scumpainting without reigniting things, but if you ignore their painting then it doesn’t look good for you.

I guess the solution then is to not get into such arguments in the first place, but that would probably require people to get over their existing grudges/hatreds... a big ask for the sc2mafia community!

"Uh Do you really mean to tell me that you're entire point about my being scum is revolved around the fact that you dont think im intelligent/good enough of a player? That I am literal clickbait ad for trash cans? My reads suck because I suck? Im trash at this game need to sit out and stop trying?
Are you... Are you being serious here? Take a second dude and relax. Come back when you arent so aggro and we can resume talking about me being scum or not. But dont bring my character into your points, thats not good play."

Honestly, if you are bringing outside stuff into a game, or saying stuff from a game outside of it... you may not be mature enough

Amen

[DJarJar]

"Uh Do you really mean to tell me that you're entire point about my being scum is revolved around the fact that you dont think im intelligent/good enough of a player? That I am literal clickbait ad for trash cans? My reads suck because I suck? Im trash at this game need to sit out and stop trying?
Are you... Are you being serious here? Take a second dude and relax. Come back when you arent so aggro and we can resume talking about me being scum or not. But dont bring my character into your points, thats not good play."



Amen

See, the problem with this response is that it’s still aggressive - despite the content suggesting de-escalation, the tone is just even more condescending and will piss the person off even more. It also discredits them and their read on you. This doesn’t at all stop an argument, if anything it makes it reach the boiling point

[Damus_Graves]

See, the problem with this response is that it’s still aggressive - despite the content suggesting de-escalation, the tone is just even more condescending and will piss the person off even more. It also discredits them and their read on you. This doesn’t at all stop an argument, if anything it makes it reach the boiling point

Aggressive play is still okay. Responding aggressively is okay. If the other play chooses to respond and continues with the personal attacks that is their choice. You don’t have to respond any further and if the other player doesn’t let up, maybe it’s time for a mod or the host to step in.

[Kenny]

That being said, if someone's reads are shit and they refuse to listen to other players, all whilst believing themselves to be the gods of forum mafia, they're the ones that are toxic.

This game is fundamentally a cooperative game. It's about reaching a consensus, and it also has to be fun for other players, not just for you. You're also not going to convince anyone of the validity of your points if you tunnel and ignore everyone else.

If someone's reads are "shit" in your opinion, you gotta talk about reads with that player and you should be trying to convince him of your own reads, or why your opinion is the right one and he is in the wrong. Telling that player his reads are "shit" and criticizing his play isn't what one should do in that situation.

[Yayap]

As for myself, I feel that reading into what one is doing in the game thread contextually is probably the surest (although not necessarily the easiest) and simplest way of figuring out someone's alignment/role/whatever.

As someone who loves to heavily manipulate the wifom for night actions, this is probably the best way to "try" to read me. Because I conceal almost all my reads until I think I have a strong enough case to get someone lynched. In day chat, I can appear to be the scummiest person because I throw some shade on who I believe is town to try to protect them from night kills wifom wise. Or lowering scums guard by making them think I'm a neutral ally. It's absolutely hilarious when mafia think that you are the neutral killer that can win with them and they tell you everything in a scum jailer chat.

The problem I often run into is that I have to completely destroy everything I built up if I have to reveal my true leads. So when people start to try to make a train on me, when most of the arguments are: "you suck as scum" "too easy gg open scum" "don't sign up if you are this bad" bla bla bla... - The easiest way for me to defend myself without ruining what I have in place is NOT to. I will however respond to specific logical posts that show some scumpoints on me. Very rare will a train lead to a lynch when there is no logic explained - gut feelings isn't enough. It's best if I focus my efforts on 1 person I do believe is scum and show logically why. Which usually is enough to shift the focus on someone else. (thus why my biggest weakness in FMs are Chinese Fire Drills or some kind of condorcet voting)

People's defense should never rely on: "if I were mafia, you wouldn't be skilled enough to scum read me" even if it may be true for some people.

[yzb25]

As someone who loves to heavily manipulate the wifom for night actions, this is probably the best way to "try" to read me. Because I conceal almost all my reads until I think I have a strong enough case to get someone lynched. In day chat, I can appear to be the scummiest person because I throw some shade on who I believe is town to try to protect them from night kills wifom wise. Or lowering scums guard by making them think I'm a neutral ally. It's absolutely hilarious when mafia think that you are the neutral killer that can win with them and they tell you everything in a scum jailer chat.

The problem I often run into is that I have to completely destroy everything I built up if I have to reveal my true leads. So when people start to try to make a train on me, when most of the arguments are: "you suck as scum" "too easy gg open scum" "don't sign up if you are this bad" bla bla bla... - The easiest way for me to defend myself without ruining what I have in place is NOT to. I will however respond to specific logical posts that show some scumpoints on me. Very rare will a train lead to a lynch when there is no logic explained - gut feelings isn't enough. It's best if I focus my efforts on 1 person I do believe is scum and show logically why. Which usually is enough to shift the focus on someone else. (thus why my biggest weakness in FMs are Chinese Fire Drills or some kind of condorcet voting)

People's defense should never rely on: "if I were mafia, you wouldn't be skilled enough to scum read me" even if it may be true for some people.

That approach would open you up to CFDs or impulse lynches, as you say. Or if you're in a game where influential people are pushing you, some logical points later on may not be enough to save you. Sometimes, there tends to be some kind of "zeitgeist" that people get swept up in, and fresh faces don't tend to have much sway in trying to single-handedly change that zeitgeist, even if their points are very logical.

That said, as someone who used to post much less I found it much easier to read people and figure out what was going on when I was detatched from the game and calmly thinking about people. I've found my reads have deteriorated significantly since I changed my style, but it's probably worthwhile learning how to read people and be involved at the same time.

I'm being very off-topic though, sorry. Your post just aroused my interest. How often have you gotten mislynched with such an approach? I used to get mislynched a LOT when I played like that, but I imagine you do the style far better than me XD

[yzb25]

Not proud of it, but i definitely have used insults to demoralize players to get Town Leader position. Idk seemed like a good idea at the time lol

Maybe this game has turned me into a sociopath, but I think a degree of bullying is strategically beneficial in many situations and not morally bad. This is a manipulation game after all. It's more about knowing where to draw the line. As you say, if you're bringing OOG stuff up then that's obviously too far. But I think the majority of the toxicity comes from people getting into long arguments with loads of insults. A few jabs is reasonable.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Maybe this game has turned me into a sociopath, but I think a degree of bullying is strategically beneficial in many situations and not morally bad. This is a manipulation game after all. It's more about knowing where to draw the line. As you say, if you're bringing OOG stuff up then that's obviously too far. But I think the majority of the toxicity comes from people getting into long arguments with loads of insults. A few jabs is reasonable.

Yea a few jabs is ok, but what is the best guideline there is COMMON SENSE. Like, don't do stuff that you get you punched, screamed at or that would make someone else cry IRL on here (In the limits of the average person, WHO MIGHT NOT BE YOURSELF so be more mindful than "treat others as you would want to be treated", treat them even better).
If you do that means you're TOO FAR. You are objectively right, but if this thread exists it's because it's a problem, which means it has to be solved...

Also, about using it as a strategy: Saying "you're dumb" as a discredit and just move on without anything else is ok. Saying "You're a 70 IQ lowkey" is not ok. Sadly, it gets to this almost every game. Players might come from the mod, but it's not a reason to make FM as toxic as the mod is, on the contrary it is a reason to work on it.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

If someone's reads are "shit" in your opinion, you gotta talk about reads with that player and you should be trying to convince him of your own reads, or why your opinion is the right one and he is in the wrong. Telling that player his reads are "shit" and criticizing his play isn't what one should do in that situation.

It's not a personal attack. Nobody gets hurt of being told that their reads are shit, it's not crossing the line. However, it doesn't mean it's a good way to play lol... if you just say that without pointing any flaws and that the flaws aren't painfully obvious, a lot of people, me included, will just say you're scum discrediting X.

[Damus_Graves]

Yea a few jabs is ok, but what is the best guideline there is COMMON SENSE. Like, don't do stuff that you get you punched, screamed at or that would make someone else cry IRL on here (In the limits of the average person, WHO MIGHT NOT BE YOURSELF so be more mindful than "treat others as you would want to be treated", treat them even better).
If you do that means you're TOO FAR. You are objectively right, but if this thread exists it's because it's a problem, which means it has to be solved...

Also, about using it as a strategy: Saying "you're dumb" as a discredit and just move on without anything else is ok. Saying "You're a 70 IQ lowkey" is not ok. Sadly, it gets to this almost every game. Players might come from the mod, but it's not a reason to make FM as toxic as the mod is, on the contrary it is a reason to work on it.

We need to challenge our players to meet the expectations without lowering to the personal insults. And make it clear that the aforementioned behavior is unacceptable and wont be tolerated.
The staff needs to make that clear. It isn't enough to just make a thread about it.

[yzb25]

We need to challenge our players to meet the expectations without lowering to the personal insults. And make it clear that the aforementioned behavior is unacceptable and wont be tolerated.
The staff needs to make that clear. It isn't enough to just make a thread about it.

Your views are probably more extreme than mine, but I 100% agree that just leaving it to "common sense" won't solve anything at all. There needs to be some tangible change in policy / approach. I still think tempmutes in-game is a decent idea (if possible to implement), though it requires the host to be present to see what's going on. Or hosting games where the number of posts people can make is capped in some way, so people are forced to think before they post.

There are two types of people who make these sorts of plays: people who do it with self awareness and people who don't. So we have to make policies that make the plays strategically unviable and force you to think/reflect before you post.

[Yayap]

I'm being very off-topic though, sorry. Your post just aroused my interest. How often have you gotten mislynched with such an approach? I used to get mislynched a LOT when I played like that, but I imagine you do the style far better than me XD

Surprisingly not often. But I'm good at exposing how little actual basis people have to scum read me. Knowing how much of the wifom manipulation to expose is key, I usually decide if it's in my best interests when I want to die. Sometimes death can help your team reach victory. My favorite is still that game I was jester and talked myself out of being lynched early on.. survived right to the exact point where all roles were claimed and my last chance of being lynched was that day. Town was soo happy they were finally getting rid of me (because I was absolutely the most annoying character in the game when I was typing out all the punctuation) and "had" a clear way to win until I flipped and killed the 100% protected mayor. lol

[Ganelon]

If someone's reads are "shit" in your opinion, you gotta talk about reads with that player and you should be trying to convince him of your own reads, or why your opinion is the right one and he is in the wrong. Telling that player his reads are "shit" and criticizing his play isn't what one should do in that situation.

No, it isn't. But that does make a player toxic, in my opinion.

[Damus_Graves]

It's not a personal attack. Nobody gets hurt of being told that their reads are shit, it's not crossing the line. However, it doesn't mean it's a good way to play lol... if you just say that without pointing any flaws and that the flaws aren't painfully obvious, a lot of people, me included, will just say you're scum discrediting X.

Your reads are shit.

Your reads are shit because you haven't made a connection between these posts, you have just given a gut reaction to them individually.


Two different kinds of energy

[Yayap]

telling someone that their reads suck is almost the equivalent of saying:
"no, u scum"
as a defense to someone scum reading you. I doesn't answer anything nor is it constructive - it "shouldn't" be an acceptable defense but the meta doesn't punish players who do it by lynching said players... so now somehow the meta says that is an "ok" defense and people feel they can get away with it even when they are town. The only way to really rectify this is for some players to start ignoring the meta that says that this may be town behavior and punish the ones doing this by either hammering a lynch on them or town night killing these people asap. Once this has become more mainstream, then people will start to avoid such bad behavior.

[Ganelon]

telling someone that their reads suck is almost the equivalent of saying:
"no, u scum"
as a defense to someone scum reading you. I doesn't answer anything nor is it constructive - it "shouldn't" be an acceptable defense but the meta doesn't punish players who do it by lynching said players... so now somehow the meta says that is an "ok" defense and people feel they can get away with it even when they are town. The only way to really rectify this is for some players to start ignoring the meta that says that this may be town behavior and punish the ones doing this by either hammering a lynch on them or town night killing these people asap. Once this has become more mainstream, then people will start to avoid such bad behavior.

I agree. What would, however, the best course of action be when one is under attack by a literally stupid argument, the nature of which is such that you cannot defend yourself against it? I will not feel pressured, nor will I defend myself against a non-existent case with read styles that I consider illegitimate and NAI (and which can very clearly be shown to be NAI to such an extent that it's on the prosecution to first show that the behaviour their target is being read for is even AI in the first place), if the person in question does not conclusively explain why such reads can ​be indicative of scum, and is content to tunnel on a player whilst ignoring any evidence to the contrary?

[Yayap]

I find that ignoring the person attacking you is the best defense. If possible, scumhunt yourself and build a more convincing case on someone else. Sheep tend to follow the better case if they have to pick and when there is "no" case against you then it actually looks scummy to stay on that train if there is a much more valid train for them to pick.

By actually finding scum and lynching them, it actually defends you better than if you tried to argue with the person who gives no reason to attack you.

[Ganelon]

Surprisingly not often. But I'm good at exposing how little actual basis people have to scum read me. Knowing how much of the wifom manipulation to expose is key, I usually decide if it's in my best interests when I want to die. Sometimes death can help your team reach victory. My favorite is still that game I was jester and talked myself out of being lynched early on.. survived right to the exact point where all roles were claimed and my last chance of being lynched was that day. Town was soo happy they were finally getting rid of me (because I was absolutely the most annoying character in the game when I was typing out all the punctuation) and "had" a clear way to win until I flipped and killed the 100% protected mayor. lol

Can you name this game? It sounds very interesting. I want to read it

[Damus_Graves]

We need to challenge our players to meet the expectations without lowering to the personal insults. And make it clear that the aforementioned behavior is unacceptable and wont be tolerated.
The staff needs to make that clear. It isn't enough to just make a thread about it.

telling someone that their reads suck is almost the equivalent of saying:
"no, u scum"
as a defense to someone scum reading you. I doesn't answer anything nor is it constructive - it "shouldn't" be an acceptable defense but the meta doesn't punish players who do it by lynching said players... so now somehow the meta says that is an "ok" defense and people feel they can get away with it even when they are town. The only way to really rectify this is for some players to start ignoring the meta that says that this may be town behavior and punish the ones doing this by either hammering a lynch on them or town night killing these people asap. Once this has become more mainstream, then people will start to avoid such bad behavior.

What do you think if you dont mind?

[DJarJar]

telling someone that their reads suck is almost the equivalent of saying:
"no, u scum"
as a defense to someone scum reading you. I doesn't answer anything nor is it constructive - it "shouldn't" be an acceptable defense but the meta doesn't punish players who do it by lynching said players... so now somehow the meta says that is an "ok" defense and people feel they can get away with it even when they are town. The only way to really rectify this is for some players to start ignoring the meta that says that this may be town behavior and punish the ones doing this by either hammering a lynch on them or town night killing these people asap. Once this has become more mainstream, then people will start to avoid such bad behavior.

But then you’re just lynching to change the meta rather than going after your top reads!