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Thread: Redeemer

  1. #21

    Re: Redeemer

    Quote Originally Posted by Chalibluefin View Post
    Well someone has to come up with new ideas for the mmeta. As it is, no one can make change suggestions without purists autistically screeching at such ideas
    Theres a bunch of other roles on this forum that have got a good set of discussion behind them. I'm just stepping in here to let you know (as it seems you're new here) this discussion has been had. Repeatedly.

    "purist screeching" isn't the case. This is a straight up design decision from the ground up and a rule put into place by D.R when we were still in active development; and I say we because I was actively on that team.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raptorblaze View Post
    The boss man has explicitly banned roles which communicate with the dead. This discussion is over.
    I need to find the long posts I've already made going into the design of why these are fucking terrible roles for the metagame but off the top of my head
    1) Dead chat becomes a game - You cant just talk about the game in dead chat and if mafia say who other mafia are it becomes game throwing where dead chat should just be a place for people to discuss the game
    2) People leave the game all the time in sc2 mafia - You cant expect people to hang around. In a format where people leave when they die the role becomes useless. And dont make the assumption "oh but if the role was there people might stay" this is battle.net, we've walked this line before.
    3) It systematically nerfs every killing evil role - It is in the mafias best interests to take out intelligent members of the town early. Most towns are full of spastics they can sheep around. Having a "perfect" protection for a day where they're brought back -- especially having access to dead chat (see point 1) is a massive swing against the evils even if the town loses a person to do it.

    There was way more but this is just me off the cuff. It breaks way too many interactions and when you start throwing alignment changes in there it would probably break the engine tbh.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brendan View Post
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  2. #22

    Re: Redeemer

    While I see your point. I honestly disagree with that stance altogether. Being a part of that team or not, that was years ago. The factor of the matter is the game can be improved upon from its current state. Whether it be by adding a new role, features, or just fixing it up so that it runs properly. However, it seems as though everyone is just contempt with the status quo, not wanting to change the way things are and not having any drive to improve upon their work. It's as almost the team just doesn't care anymore. I am aware that former staff have gone on to work on different games, and real life shit, but from the remaining or new devs, it feels as there has been no effort to innovate the game other than the "Mafia 2.0" thread that has been dead for a good while. Of course I may be wrong or mislead, so there is someone that will call me out as a "retard" later, but that is just my perception of it. (Also I have been playing this since about early 2013)

    This of course is just my opinion on mafia. I respect your stance, so I ask that you respect mine.
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  3. #23

    Re: Redeemer

    Quote Originally Posted by Chalibluefin View Post
    While I see your point. I honestly disagree with that stance altogether. Being a part of that team or not, that was years ago. The factor of the matter is the game can be improved upon from its current state. Whether it be by adding a new role, features, or just fixing it up so that it runs properly. However, it seems as though everyone is just contempt with the status quo, not wanting to change the way things are and not having any drive to improve upon their work. It's as almost the team just doesn't care anymore. I am aware that former staff have gone on to work on different games, and real life shit, but from the remaining or new devs, it feels as there has been no effort to innovate the game other than the "Mafia 2.0" thread that has been dead for a good while. Of course I may be wrong or mislead, so there is someone that will call me out as a "retard" later, but that is just my perception of it. (Also I have been playing this since about early 2013)

    This of course is just my opinion on mafia. I respect your stance, so I ask that you respect mine.
    I don't see how saying 'the game can and should be improved' supports the claim 'dead interaction roles should be added'.

    What do you suggest to remedy the fact that people actually leave the game, making the slot technically unuseable?

    FM XVII: Bonney Jewelry (Journalist)
    FM XVIII: Kalou (Savage Godfather)
    FM XX: Joseph Bertrand (Marshall)
    FM XXI: USA (Escort)
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  4. #24

  5. #25

    Re: Redeemer

    Quote Originally Posted by Chalibluefin View Post
    While I see your point. I honestly disagree with that stance altogether. Being a part of that team or not, that was years ago. The factor of the matter is the game can be improved upon from its current state. Whether it be by adding a new role, features, or just fixing it up so that it runs properly. However, it seems as though everyone is just contempt with the status quo, not wanting to change the way things are and not having any drive to improve upon their work. It's as almost the team just doesn't care anymore. I am aware that former staff have gone on to work on different games, and real life shit, but from the remaining or new devs, it feels as there has been no effort to innovate the game other than the "Mafia 2.0" thread that has been dead for a good while. Of course I may be wrong or mislead, so there is someone that will call me out as a "retard" later, but that is just my perception of it. (Also I have been playing this since about early 2013)

    This of course is just my opinion on mafia. I respect your stance, so I ask that you respect mine.
    There are just some core settings in the SC2Mafia development, and one of them is no dead interaction.
    Yet this does not stop you from presenting new ideas, new roles, new mechanics. (Which are always welcome)
    Elixir is, and as far as I know, always will be involved with any role development and is still apart of the team.
    And as far as I am aware, he has given valid and good reasoning why death interaction roles are not optimal for the game and where not disputed.

    And no, Development isn't dead, its just slow at the moment whilst the new Dev gets used to the clusterfuck of coding that D.R. left behind ^^ (Picture the weasley's house, The Burrow from harry potter)

    And personally, I do look forward to change, I hope that the problem with "Confirmed town, PM me roles" gets resolved, I hope that Investigator will eventually be reworked as he is currently either under or over powered.

    And perhaps new mechanics, new meta and so on.
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  6. #26

    Re: Redeemer

    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    Why would this role even be fun to play? It's even less fun than citizen.
    The theory behind the idea itself is giving dead players more incitement to stay and win rather than leave as soon as you die. Of course it comes down to the players actions however.
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  7. #27

    Re: Redeemer

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperJack View Post
    There are just some core settings in the SC2Mafia development, and one of them is no dead interaction.
    Yet this does not stop you from presenting new ideas, new roles, new mechanics. (Which are always welcome)
    Elixir is, and as far as I know, always will be involved with any role development and is still apart of the team.
    And as far as I am aware, he has given valid and good reasoning why death interaction roles are not optimal for the game and where not disputed.

    And no, Development isn't dead, its just slow at the moment whilst the new Dev gets used to the clusterfuck of coding that D.R. left behind ^^ (Picture the weasley's house, The Burrow from harry potter)

    And personally, I do look forward to change, I hope that the problem with "Confirmed town, PM me roles" gets resolved, I hope that Investigator will eventually be reworked as he is currently either under or over powered.

    And perhaps new mechanics, new meta and so on.
    Perhaps this role is a bad example of inciting innovation to Mafia. However I believe it be a step in the right direction of at least spicing up the game. I am certain there are better ways, but most ideas I have seen have been rather terrible, with the exception of the Stalker and Psychiatrist.

    I agree on your view on the "Confirmed town, PM me roles" problem however, multiple games just devolve into them and decreases the fun factor of Mafia
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  8. #28

    Re: Redeemer

    Quote Originally Posted by Chalibluefin View Post
    The theory behind the idea itself is giving dead players more incitement to stay and win rather than leave as soon as you die. Of course it comes down to the players actions however.
    Unsure what that second sentence means. Though I'll partially agree on that first point. It's boring to stay around in a game waiting for points/win rate update/achievement update and sucks how sc2mafia is limited (unlike other online mafia games) in how that score can't be updated if you leave the game before the game actually ends.

    If one didn't actually care about that though, why would we want to incite people to stay after a game is dead?

    FM XVII: Bonney Jewelry (Journalist)
    FM XVIII: Kalou (Savage Godfather)
    FM XX: Joseph Bertrand (Marshall)
    FM XXI: USA (Escort)
    FM XV: Whiskey (Whore)

  9. #29

    Re: Redeemer

    Quote Originally Posted by Voss View Post
    Unsure what that second sentence means. Though I'll partially agree on that first point. It's boring to stay around in a game waiting for points/win rate update/achievement update and sucks how sc2mafia is limited (unlike other online mafia games) in how that score can't be updated if you leave the game before the game actually ends.

    If one didn't actually care about that though, why would we want to incite people to stay after a game is dead?
    Well the only idea to really incite participation WOULD be to implement some kind of significance for dead players. However, since your guys' golden rule is to have death permanent then no real ideas come to mind. Other than heavy promotion of staying or a possible mini game in dead chat besides Russian Roulette. Otherwise, I see your point.
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