S-FM 223: Cult of Zed

[secondpassing]

Mind showing me a specific example of SB asking a question he doesn't seem to care about the answer of?

1. Weren't you town in the FM?

2. Your arcanine has glasses.

-unvote

3. These posts are making me townread FB.

4. The way I'm interpreting 3p is that town is one party and mafia is the second party. Neutrals would be the third party, even though we have neutrals here and no mafia.

5. Why mesk?

6. Can we just hear about mesk, and why mesk is insta-town for claiming citizen?

1. There's no point in this question. This filler question is included into his "analyzing" post, which means he never intended for others to take this post seriously.

2. Irrelevant. See point 1.

3. This point lack analysis, only a conclusion. So it is not built to persuade others.

4. Repetition of a post that Quick had already posted. Nothing added.

5. I have problems with how short this question is. A two word question to clear up whether or not to vote his scum read? Not substantial enough.

6. He sure isn't trying hard to engage Firebringer.

Therefore, if his whole analysis post is filled with filler, he actually isn't being involved nor does he want to know the answers to his questions. I expect scum to adopt this playstyle, especially on day one.

[secondpassing]

yzb, thoughts on the state of the game?

[yzb25]

yzb, thoughts on the state of the game?

You summarized it perfectly yourself. Whenever I prod someone for weaknesses they've got a pristine little wallpost for me.

One of you bastards is taking me for a ride, but I can't say I'm not enjoying it.

[secondpassing]

Impressions from ISO to #277


Yzb25 - easy to follow, transparent/clean thought processes that read fairly genuine at the moment. If he's scum, it's really well done and I don't think there's any point in tinfoiling here just yet.

Ika - Fairly free-flowing thought process that I think would be hard to maintain with effect if scum. The all caps 'everyone vote me' episode seemed an OTT reaction to the context to me, but yzb's points wrt this mollify that somewhat, waiting to see her answers to my question/explanation for it in her own words. I think reacting this way as 3p is null wrt scum.

Stealthbomber16 - I mindmeld with a lot of Stealthbomber's posts, but I have some heebiejeebies that I can't quite put into words. I think it's mostly to do with the townreads he's given out feeling like setup for a 'solid' future. I'll look back over it after sleep and can try and explain later if people want to delve. I've been up for 20ish hours now and this one is #toohard. Likely Town. As a sidenote, if you're actually CultLeader, please don't recruit me #lolparanoia.

Quick - Progression wrt Ika to here feels ok, I had the same basic thoughts/reactions and the tone reads genuine if a little stubborn. Tone wrt yzb's posting also feels thought-out and leans towards Town. The stubbornness towards Ika doesn't bother me too much at the moment, it's cancelled out by the earlier scum reads/pressure/consideration towards secondpassing and FB with logical reasoning. I don't get the emphasis on 3p given this setup or the SP Matt-is-stealthbomber post, but currently have these points as null/TWTBAW - and I don't get the vibe that Quick's deliberately manipulating that playstyle as scum.




Secondpassing - The townreading of me after our early posts still ruffles me slightly. There's a possibility I'm stuck with early tinfoil bias but I find SP's ?logic? wrt new makes the initial post feel more like filler than an actual thought-out comment, this is a ?small thing but that plus the initial reluctance to interact/lay thoughts on the table makes me uneasy. Tone flow after that improves, but is null and the townread on Mesk because she's being nice is... o.O.



Firebringer's entry, EZTownReadz/no interaction then disappear still bothers me. This is something I normally associate with scum unless specific player meta makes it a proven null. Don't like the vote on Quick or the Town read of Mesk. The re-entry isn't anything scum couldn't do but at least it shows more involvement #watchingthisspace

Mesk's I don't follow her logic and I think the blustery attitude is one that's easily abused as scum. Her lack of invested/traceable content bothers me. Leaving the vote on Quick seems overly stubborn, and sticking to that without providing other thoughts is probably my most unbiased problem with Mesk here. There are hints of could-be-Town, but not enough to sell me that she's actually invested, which I take as a bad sign.

GyrI want more reads and thoughts here - I don't see any evidence of hunting/caring about the direction of today's lynch - entire ISO appears to be aloof fluff and tooEZTown reads.



Questions:
- Is post-count alignment indicative for Ika, and has anyone seen him a)do the caps/vote me thing as scum, b)be cleared for it previously as Town.
He's currently top poster, if that's a thing. I think the likelihood of the caps thing being possi-sus increases slightly if a or b are true.

-

aaaand I got interrupted

TLDR gun to head, right now, most willing to lynch in bottom three.

Will add Firebringer's claim could go either way. Can expand on that thought process (and any others) after sleep.


Ninight!

Yzb25: Agreed. At times I do not come to the same conclusion that he does, but by assuming what his values are, I can see how he got to those conclusions. Additionally he lacks any trace of manipulation/deception.

ika: Agreed with his OTT reaction. I presume it is there because his anger seems unfounded. Aside from that he is acting just as I would expect him to.

Quick: Didn't really notice this guy. Also good feelings come from him. Null to me.

secondpassing: I think being read as null is much better than in other games where I'm read as scum. Apparently I have the scummiest playstyle on this site which is due to the culture I grew up in as well as the personality I have. I don't think in logical terms, and if I ever have to explain anything to anyone I have to boil my feelings down into coherent thoughts. Which should feel fake, because they are.

Firebringer: Haven't noticed him too much yet. Fact that he was willing to vote cass gives him a +1 in my book, however misguided I think it is.

Mesk514: Hasn't been blustery towards me :D

Gyrlander: Took it upon himself to townread me. Which I wouldn't see any scum doing. Scum don't attach themselves to sinking ships.

Cass: All around good. Hint of hysteria with tone changes. Otherwise, thoughts lead to questions, questions lead to answers, answers lead towards solving the game.

[secondpassing]

Hey yzb, I would vote Mesk for the sake of it, but I don't want to.
Who should I vote?

[yzb25]

Hey yzb, I would vote Mesk for the sake of it, but I don't want to.
Who should I vote?

Vote ika.

[Mesk514]

Mesk514: Hasn't been blustery towards me

you've been sick, therefore i actually hope you feel better.

[Stealthbomber16]

1. There's no point in this question. This filler question is included into his "analyzing" post, which means he never intended for others to take this post seriously.
It was a legitimate question, even if you do consider it as filler, I found a gap in her story and questioned her about it.

2. Irrelevant. See point 1.
Can't dispute this.

3. This point lack analysis, only a conclusion. So it is not built to persuade others.
Allow me to flesh it out for you:

Firebringer's general tone posts and the way he is analyzing questions and posts make me believe that he is town.

4. Repetition of a post that Quick had already posted. Nothing added.
Can't dispute this.

5. I have problems with how short this question is. A two word question to clear up whether or not to vote his scum read? Not substantial enough.
2 words were all I needed to say there. If I posted a sentence there, then you would have called it out for fluff. I don't win in this scenario.

6. He sure isn't trying hard to engage Firebringer.
I don't see your point here?

Therefore, if his whole analysis post is filled with filler, he actually isn't being involved nor does he want to know the answers to his questions. I expect scum to adopt this playstyle, especially on day one.

This was actually much more true than I'd like it to be, to be honest. This in-depth analysis from SP is nice though, even though it didn't really answer the original question that yzb asked. Any of those questions I would appreciate the answer to. And I think mesk even evaded the first one (which, now that i think about it, she was actually scum)

[yzb25]

Mesk is sidestepping many criticisms. She does it as town too, but that doesn't magically make the criticisms vanish. She's gonna get lynched at this rate if she doesn't address her critics properly.

[Mesk514]

Mesk is sidestepping many criticisms. She does it as town too, but that doesn't magically make the criticisms vanish. She's gonna get lynched at this rate if she doesn't address her critics properly.

i've done everything I've always done. i really dont give a fuck if you can't see that.

lynch me.

[Mesk514]

And I think mesk even evaded the first one (which, now that i think about it, she was actually scum)

dont even know what you're talking about.

[yzb25]

dont even know what you're talking about.

Give us your game-related-thoughts on Quick, FB, SP and Gyr, if you have them.

[Mesk514]

Give us your game-related-thoughts on Quick, FB, SP and Gyr, if you have them.

that would be going against everything I've done in the past. i dont do reads day 1.

[Mesk514]

although i will say gyrlander out of everyone has the weakest reasoning to vote me. i gave it to him lol

[yzb25]

that would be going against everything I've done in the past. i dont do reads day 1.

If you're concerned about getting scumread for giving reads day 1 - You won't get scumread simply for playing differently, especially if that change is for the better. If you did, I'd white-knight the fuck out of you.

[yzb25]

although i will say gyrlander out of everyone has the weakest reasoning to vote me. i gave it to him lol

Do you think that suggests he's scum? Do you scumread him for that?

[Mesk514]

If you're concerned about getting scumread for giving reads day 1 - You won't get scumread simply for playing differently, especially if that change is for the better. If you did, I'd white-knight the fuck out of you.

im not concerned about being scum read, everyone should know by now that the chances that im actually scum are significantly low. every single game i push as far as i can go with out having to sit and forcibly think about my thoughts. i intend to do that to my death here. you can't say im throwing, I've already claimed town ;)

[Mesk514]

Do you think that suggests he's scum? Do you scumread him for that?

i wouldn't say i scum read him for it, but its definitely hopping on the low hanging fruit train which tends to always attract the scum.

[Mesk514]

i think there really needs to be a friendly reminder of who i am.

Spoiler : ... :

dont ding me cause it's too big, sorry MZ, smallest fan i could find

[yzb25]

im not concerned about being scum read, everyone should know by now that the chances that im actually scum are significantly low. every single game i push as far as i can go with out having to sit and forcibly think about my thoughts. i intend to do that to my death here. you can't say im throwing, I've already claimed town ;)

"every single game i push as far as i can go with out having to sit and forcibly think about my thoughts."

You don't have to sit down and think. Just go back to the posts, jog your memory, and give any thoughts you may have. If you genuinely cannot get any reads you feel are reliable, then it's worth posting that too.

The thing is, the town-tells you plant (like the "urghh I really don't wanna get converted") only become less reliable as you gain more self-awareness. Most of the town-tells you generally used you used as Nugget in FM Pokemon. Despite everyone insisting you were "obvscum", hardly anyone ever pushed you until night actions confirmed you. You only looked like "obvscum" in hindsight.

Despite everything, you're still a null read as a result, unless I try to use host meta (which I'm losing faith in).

[yzb25]

i think there really needs to be a friendly reminder of who i am.

Spoiler : ... :

dont ding me cause it's too big, sorry MZ, smallest fan i could find

Please stop being so self deprecating. It triggers me when you belittle your own intelligence.

[yzb25]

i wouldn't say i scum read him for it, but its definitely hopping on the low hanging fruit train which tends to always attract the scum.

If I understand correctly, you're saying it has the potential to be something scum!gyr is doing?

[Mesk514]

"every single game i push as far as i can go with out having to sit and forcibly think about my thoughts."

You don't have to sit down and think. Just go back to the posts, jog your memory, and give any thoughts you may have. If you genuinely cannot get any reads you feel are reliable, then it's worth posting that too.

The thing is, the town-tells you plant (like the "urghh I really don't wanna get converted") only become less reliable as you gain more self-awareness. Most of the town-tells you generally used you used as Nugget in FM Pokemon. Despite everyone insisting you were "obvscum", hardly anyone ever pushed you until night actions confirmed you. You only looked like "obvscum" in hindsight.

Despite everything, you're still a null read as a result, unless I try to use host meta (which I'm losing faith in).

who says im not gaining self awareness and awareness of other actions. im not going to sit here and tell everyone my reads in depth, that would be useless as that would just show what im looking at in people. if i haven't touched on someone, assume i have no bone to pick with them. like Stealth and SP.

not sure why nugget is being brought into this. I am clearly capable of playing scum, but i took a very different approach in that game. May i also remind you i was hand selected for that part, and i would say it's because my legit meta consists of the fact that i normally always role town. Host meta is a legit thing, i dont care what any body says. it goes down to how even how host decides to random. but thats regardless, if you want to use host meta, MZ just made a whole game everyone VS. Me so i doubt hes planning on doing that anytime soon.

[Mesk514]

If I understand correctly, you're saying it has the potential to be something scum!gyr is doing?

correct, im not going to point my finger and tunnel him because its a classic gyrlander move. I've done the same thing to him, hes done it to me before. however, scum love me cause apparently they think im easy low hanging fruit... i proved that wrong with titus last game

[yzb25]

who says im not gaining self awareness and awareness of other actions. im not going to sit here and tell everyone my reads in depth, that would be useless as that would just show what im looking at in people. if i haven't touched on someone, assume i have no bone to pick with them. like Stealth and SP.

not sure why nugget is being brought into this. I am clearly capable of playing scum, but i took a very different approach in that game. May i also remind you i was hand selected for that part, and i would say it's because my legit meta consists of the fact that i normally always role town. Host meta is a legit thing, i dont care what any body says. it goes down to how even how host decides to random. but thats regardless, if you want to use host meta, MZ just made a whole game everyone VS. Me so i doubt hes planning on doing that anytime soon.

There's no point hiding a scumread unless you're hoping the scummy action will be repeated. Nevertheless, I respect being protective over reads, but you've gotta compromise sometimes, esp. when you're at l2 lol.

Basically, my point was that you're clearly aware of your town-tells ("self-aware"), so that largely invalidates them and makes them null.

[yzb25]

There's no point hiding a scumread unless you're hoping the scummy action will be repeated. Nevertheless, I respect being protective over reads, but you've gotta compromise sometimes, esp. when you're at l2 lol.

Basically, my point was that you're clearly aware of your town-tells ("self-aware"), so that largely invalidates them and makes them null.

And also, in regards to the host meta... Meh. I was talking to MZ in the pre-game and he seemed rather... impulsive. I can see him choosing a trollier but nevertheless strong candidate for scum.

[yzb25]

correct, im not going to point my finger and tunnel him because its a classic gyrlander move. I've done the same thing to him, hes done it to me before. however, scum love me cause apparently they think im easy low hanging fruit... i proved that wrong with titus last game

How about SB's vote?

[yzb25]

Oops late replies my bad.

[Quick]

I feel like its just been Town fighting with each other the last couple of pages.

[Mesk514]

Quick, where do we stand in our little dance?

[Quick]

Quick, where do we stand in our little dance?

IDK what dance you are talking about?

[yzb25]

-vote Firebringer

Ultimately one of the few people I can see a scum perspective in. His entries in pages (#240-#280) felt like he was prodding around for a good mislynch. He sort of faded into the background when it seemed nothing would work.

I can still see him being a town, failing to find a good scumread, getting lazy, and fucking off, but that feels less plausible.

Also, he never actually elaborated on those early reads at the start - when I asked him, he followed up with a weird question to my question. His questions to me in general felt like they were trying to make me slip.

[yzb25]

People I simply don't wanna lynch:

Mesk
Ika
Stealthbomber
Gyrlander

The remaining 3 (SP, Cass, Quick) are also admittedly townreads but I can imagine a scum perspective if I really, really try hard.

You may have noticed that's every player LOL.

[Stealthbomber16]

I feel like its just been Town fighting with each other the last couple of pages.

Then who is scum?

[yzb25]

I feel confident FB has the highest chance of flipping scum. Anyone who wants to dispute this with me should do it now. We don't have much time left.

[Mesk514]

-vote StealthBomber

firebringer is a maybe, but im fairly town reading him right now... nothing out of the ordinary... so im gonna stick to someone on my train

[Mesk514]

-vote StealthBomber16

[Stealthbomber16]

-vote StealthBomber

firebringer is a maybe, but im fairly town reading him right now... nothing out of the ordinary... so im gonna stick to someone on my train

You're literally saying this is OMGUS.

[yzb25]

-vote StealthBomber16

SB's inconsistent motivation (bouncing between being disinterested to suddenly caring when he realizes he actually doesn't want to get lynched and then back to losing interest) is not CLish. A CL would be uniform because he's holding all of his posts to a certain standard to make sure he doesn't get shit on. SB doesn't seem like someone who's got a uniform, consistent goal that he's trying to follow. He looks like a town who is struggling to find the time/motivation to dedicate enough effort to the game.

FB fits the whole calm, careful post thing far better than SB.

Spoiler : more reasoning :

Plus, the way he felt awkward pride about the Ika reaction test thing looked genuine AF. It felt like a series of emotions a scum wouldn't express unless they were really getting into pretending to scumhunt. I just wouldn't expect someone who's so all over the place to be able to focus so hard on being creating such a genuine towny reaction.

[yzb25]

1 and a half hours before EOD.

[Firebringer]

I honestly don't feel like leading this day to get us a proper lynch.
Someone just tell me who to vote and if its not one of my town reads I am chill.

[Firebringer]

SB's inconsistent motivation (bouncing between being disinterested to suddenly caring when he realizes he actually doesn't want to get lynched and then back to losing interest) is not CLish. A CL would be uniform because he's holding all of his posts to a certain standard to make sure he doesn't get shit on. SB doesn't seem like someone who's got a uniform, consistent goal that he's trying to follow. He looks like a town who is struggling to find the time/motivation to dedicate enough effort to the game.

FB fits the whole calm, careful post thing far better than SB.

Spoiler : more reasoning :

Plus, the way he felt awkward pride about the Ika reaction test thing looked genuine AF. It felt like a series of emotions a scum wouldn't express unless they were really getting into pretending to scumhunt. I just wouldn't expect someone who's so all over the place to be able to focus so hard on being creating such a genuine towny reaction.

How has my posting been careful? I claimed PR and didn't even know this setup had zero power roles....

As far as calm, how is that scum thing?

[yzb25]

How has my posting been careful? I claimed PR and didn't even know this setup had zero power roles....

As far as calm, how is that scum thing?

I shouldn't have said "calm" or "careful". I should have said uniform. You prodded around for faults without pushing hard, kept your comments minimalist and had consistently low activity. This contrasts with SB.

[Firebringer]

-vote Firebringer

Ultimately one of the few people I can see a scum perspective in. His entries in pages (#240-#280) felt like he was prodding around for a good mislynch. He sort of faded into the background when it seemed nothing would work.

I can still see him being a town, failing to find a good scumread, getting lazy, and fucking off, but that feels less plausible.

Also, he never actually elaborated on those early reads at the start - when I asked him, he followed up with a weird question to my question. His questions to me in general felt like they were trying to make me slip.

I said i wasn't going to elaborate on those reads....you could have pushed me more than when I said "I am not going to explain these". Why bring this up now?

I am prodding for a lynch, just not a mislynch so your analysis on 240 and 280 aren't completely wrong, but misguided. I am looking for scum. I just can't find any right now.

Probably because theres only one.

[Firebringer]

I shouldn't have said "calm" or "careful". I should have said uniform. You prodded around for faults without pushing hard, kept your comments minimalist and had consistently low activity. This contrasts with SB.

This is low activity now?
Meh, not going to disagree with you on weak pushes or minimal comments. Just how I am playing right now, I don't think that indicates literally anything.

[Firebringer]

Like my confidence in my scum read on Cass is about maybe 40%.
Not that high.

I kind of liked their posts about them explaining why on their HS what I did was scummy and them questioning others more about it to get a baseline idea.

The only thing scummy by them now is lack of a vote on anyone but that could be just be technical difficulties, but i would think town would try to fix that.

[yzb25]

I said i wasn't going to elaborate on those reads....you could have pushed me more than when I said "I am not going to explain these". Why bring this up now?

I am prodding for a lynch, just not a mislynch so your analysis on 240 and 280 aren't completely wrong, but misguided. I am looking for scum. I just can't find any right now.

Probably because theres only one.

It didn't actually make sense to hide your reasons for townreading. My failure to realize that earlier is irrelevant to your alignment.

The scum!perspective still feels more plausible. You question me, scumread Quick for "buddying" by posting townreads, throw shade on the members of Ika's train (implicitly SB), then, rather than try to develop any or find new ones, you just leave.

[Stealthbomber16]

How has my posting been careful? I claimed PR and didn't even know this setup had zero power roles....

As far as calm, how is that scum thing?

I don't know about that. This specific mention is like a role that can rewrite last wills being like "THE SHERIFF CLEARED ME" over and over again because he did something to the sheriff's will to clear him.

Like my confidence in my scum read on Cass is about maybe 40%.
Not that high.

I kind of liked their posts about them explaining why on their HS what I did was scummy and them questioning others more about it to get a baseline idea.

The only thing scummy by them now is lack of a vote on anyone but that could be just be technical difficulties, but i would think town would try to fix that.

It's basically EoD. If you have a scumread, vote it.
I don't think we're going to get anywhere with mesk. How do you guys feel about a turbolynch on Quick?

[Firebringer]

It didn't actually make sense to hide your reasons for townreading. My failure to realize that earlier is irrelevant to your alignment.

The scum!perspective still feels more plausible. You question me, scumread Quick for "buddying" by posting townreads, throw shade on the members of Ika's train (implicitly SB), then, rather than try to develop any or find new ones, you just leave.

Okay, I guess i rolled scum.
I will have to tell Zed he fucked up and sent me wrong PM.

[yzb25]

This is low activity now?
Meh, not going to disagree with you on weak pushes or minimal comments. Just how I am playing right now, I don't think that indicates literally anything.

It is low activity now. I think it does indicate something, for the reasons I'm repeating.

Like my confidence in my scum read on Cass is about maybe 40%.
Not that high.

I kind of liked their posts about them explaining why on their HS what I did was scummy and them questioning others more about it to get a baseline idea.

The only thing scummy by them now is lack of a vote on anyone but that could be just be technical difficulties, but i would think town would try to fix that.

Exactly, the Cass vote makes little sense either, unless you're gonna scumread her for being busy saving lives and shit at this time lol.