S-FM 222: Black Flag Nightless (2.0)

[Whad]

If this bad behavior always happens with Iced, maybe it's time he learned a lesson and stopped hmm?

Who are you liking right now? Orpz and SJ are fine, but why not Zed? He hasn't posted like at all? I need to sort all three, so I'd be ok with this if I couldn't get my actual scumreads lynched. Yet, the two you picked are actually posting.

I haven't been able to sort Zed either. I just wouldn't want us to lynch a slot that is basically empty and could be filled with a replacement.

I need to go back and analyze the Gyrlander/Orpz/Cryptonic reaction to my SJ town lean since the huge pushback against that makes me think that at least one of the 3 could be scum with SJ and trying to paint associations between me and SJ...

[Titus]

Ok I guess everyone is gone. XCOM 2 calls my name.

[Titus]

I haven't been able to sort Zed either. I just wouldn't want us to lynch a slot that is basically empty and could be filled with a replacement.

I need to go back and analyze the Gyrlander/Orpz/Cryptonic reaction to my SJ town lean since the huge pushback against that makes me think that at least one of the 3 could be scum with SJ and trying to paint associations between me and SJ...

That's a stretch. Scum really don't plant associatives before they are going to get lynched. We're nowhere near a consensus.

[Mesk514]

im okay with a titus lynch. only thing that bothers me with ice's little speech is that it's all under the assumption that i am town, which is true... but how does he know that 0.0

[Iced_Monopoly]

im okay with a titus lynch. only thing that bothers me with ice's little speech is that it's all under the assumption that i am town, which is true... but how does he know that 0.0

You were in my town pool over 24hrs ago.
As of my reads list from this half of the day, you are in my scum pool.

[Iced_Monopoly]

You were in my town pool over 24hrs ago.
As of my reads list from this half of the day, you are in my scum pool.

#238

[Cryptonic]

I haven't been able to sort Zed either. I just wouldn't want us to lynch a slot that is basically empty and could be filled with a replacement.

I need to go back and analyze the Gyrlander/Orpz/Cryptonic reaction to my SJ town lean since the huge pushback against that makes me think that at least one of the 3 could be scum with SJ and trying to paint associations between me and SJ...

Are you saying that your SJ Town Lean is now all of a sudden a "reaction test", because you can literally make 0 sense out of your read? I don't buy that. There is no world that any sane person would see this as a reaction test.

-vote Whad

This isn't as good as a Mesk lynch, information wise, but definitely higher chance of being scum.

[Cryptonic]

going to bed now, ttyl

[Mesk514]

lol my lynch gives information? lol wtf

[Whad]

I haven't been able to sort Zed either. I just wouldn't want us to lynch a slot that is basically empty and could be filled with a replacement.

I need to go back and analyze the Gyrlander/Orpz/Cryptonic reaction to my SJ town lean since the huge pushback against that makes me think that at least one of the 3 could be scum with SJ and trying to paint associations between me and SJ...

No time to do this tonight actually.

Are you saying that your SJ Town Lean is now all of a sudden a "reaction test", because you can literally make 0 sense out of your read? I don't buy that. There is no world that any sane person would see this as a reaction test.

-vote Whad

This isn't as good as a Mesk lynch, information wise, but definitely higher chance of being scum.

No, I'm simply re-evaluating my reads as more and more people post things that I see as townish. What counted for a gut town read on page 4 has to be re-evaluated as more posts come in and the state of the game changes. It's only natural that reads are fluid and changing in a game of mafia. But I also never said my SJ town lean was a reaction test.

Looks like I'm the leading train at the moment, so in the event I am lynched I would seriously take a look at Orpz, Crypt, and Gyrlander who are all on my train. Remember that scum only have one lynch redirect and will use it to take out the one unlynchable townie in the game. I am pretty sure there is at least one scum on my train. In this game, scum has to be active and push mislynches since there are no night kills.

[Whad]

-vote Orpz

I don't really want to vote Cryptonic, and I also won't be voting myself. I have been thoroughly unimpressed with Orpz so far and he falls on the "opportunistic scum trying to get Whad lynched" group. Crypt I'll buy as misinformed/clouded judgement since the SJ thing involved him and Gyrlander as VI in the most generous interpretation of both of their plays. Orpz's most generous interpretation is dead weight.

May be around to check in briefly in the morning but I won't be around anywhere near EOD.

[MattZed]

Well, I'm glad this stayed active in spite of me not being here.

Reading up now. Will ISO major trains after.

[Orpz]

-vote Orpz

I don't really want to vote Cryptonic, and I also won't be voting myself. I have been thoroughly unimpressed with Orpz so far and he falls on the "opportunistic scum trying to get Whad lynched" group. Crypt I'll buy as misinformed/clouded judgement since the SJ thing involved him and Gyrlander as VI in the most generous interpretation of both of their plays. Orpz's most generous interpretation is dead weight.

May be around to check in briefly in the morning but I won't be around anywhere near EOD.

>opportunistic scum trying to get Whad lynched

but I literally started this hype train???

[MattZed]

Spoiler : Whad ISO :

75 - opening posts; asks Iced "We cool?" in response to his RV
84 - argues against policy lynches; argues Mesk is town from meta; says he likes Iced's vote because it's trying to get a read
96 - argues on pushing a lot of trains, rather than deep trains, suggests Iced is voting him based on a vendetta
100 - announces intentions to continue to probe Iced's intentions
102 - maintains that Iced's approach involves tunneling, and that we should have many trains
108 - insists Iced is trying to PL him, says policy lynches are low hanging fruit
113 - confusion at a post by SJ
115 - says days do not end on a hammer (this is false)
120 - suggests the push on him has been Iced's plan all along
124 - votes Iced on the reasoning that he's either "town with beef" or "opportunistic scum," and if he claims to not be the former he must be the latter.
125 - accuses Iced of going after vocal players as part of an anti-town strategy
127 - asks Titus and SJ for their thoughts on Iced's plan
133 - more argument with Iced
135 - continued argument
145 - readlist with Mesk, yzb, and SJ for town, myself, Iced, Gyrlander, and Orpz for Null, and Titus+Crypt for scum; mostly meta reads; votes Crypt
147 - defends nullread on Iced on the grounds that he's previously misread town Iced before; explains Crypt vote on grounds of "negative utility"
180 - defends Gyrlander as being a village idiot, says SJ is coming from a town mindset
181 - explains lack of interaction with Crypt as a timezone issue
183 - says he likes Gyrlander for finding a non-existent contradiction in his play
186 - asks Crypt to further his reads
270 - follows Iced's vote onto Titus, saying he has been "liking" Iced more; explains abandoning the Crypt vote on the grounds it was merely to pressure him into talking more
273 - townreads Iced for "rageface"
286 - "likes" Cryptonic for "approaching the game from a different angle"
292 - says his actions were "to get people talking" in response to Orpz' vote
299 - says his vote on Crypt was a RV
307 - asks Gyrlander if he wants anything else explained, in response to his vote.
315 - comments that he can see the reasoning behind a Whad/SJ connection
349 - tells Titus "I think we need to focus on Orpz or SJ"
351 - says he needs to analyze the Gyrlander/Orpz/Crypt reaction to his SJ townread because they could be scum with SJ
360 - backtracks that he's merely "re-evaluating reads"
361 - votes Orpz, with Cryptonic as backup candidate.

HOLY SHIT STOP LYING IF YOU'RE TOWN. THERE IS NO REASON RVS SHOULD LAST FOR MOST OF D1. IF YOU ARE TOWN, STOP LYING ABOUT YOUR READS, AND STOP LYING ABOUT THEM RIGHT NOW.

Please tell me I'm not the only one seeing the complete lack of sincerity here. Whad goes from speculating someone is scum, to voting them, to then townreading them soon after. And they're shallow townreads at that. After basically any response to his vote, he abandons the train. And why? Oh, it was just a random vote. What the shit? And that's not even half of it.

He townreads lower-skill players on light meta reasons and refuses to commit to calling anyone scum. Why? Maybe he's just an unconfident town, or maybe he knows everyone's alignment and can't get himself to fake a scumread. But if he's the former, why the facade of confidence?

-vote Whad

@Whad , I would frankly policy lynch you at this point for so much deception. In a nightless game with no TPRs, lying about your reads only causes chaos. If you're town, that shit stops RIGHT NOW. If you're scum, then I appreciate your boldness. It's something we don't see from scum as much these days, but I really can't let it slide.

If you're town, this is your last chance. Answer these questions, and if you lie one more time you are absolutely dead.
1. Which of your votes on Iced, Crypt, Titus, and Orpz have been because you actually scumread them, as opposed to reaction testing?
2. What are your REAL reads as of this moment?
3. Why were you so adamant that Iced could only be pushing you if he were scum or town with a vendetta?

[MattZed]

I don't have time for more now, but I will be back an hour before EoD.

[Cryptonic]

lol my lynch gives information? lol wtf

Yea
Iced defended you
Mesk reads you as Town
Titus jumped on your train fast
Orpz jumped on your train fast
I pushed a lynch on you


That's 5 people it gives information on.

[Cryptonic]

Yea
Iced defended you
Whad reads you as Town
Titus jumped on your train fast
Orpz jumped on your train fast
I pushed a lynch on you


That's 5 people it gives information on.

fixed

[Whad]

Spoiler : Whad ISO :

75 - opening posts; asks Iced "We cool?" in response to his RV
84 - argues against policy lynches; argues Mesk is town from meta; says he likes Iced's vote because it's trying to get a read
96 - argues on pushing a lot of trains, rather than deep trains, suggests Iced is voting him based on a vendetta
100 - announces intentions to continue to probe Iced's intentions
102 - maintains that Iced's approach involves tunneling, and that we should have many trains
108 - insists Iced is trying to PL him, says policy lynches are low hanging fruit
113 - confusion at a post by SJ
115 - says days do not end on a hammer (this is false)
120 - suggests the push on him has been Iced's plan all along
124 - votes Iced on the reasoning that he's either "town with beef" or "opportunistic scum," and if he claims to not be the former he must be the latter.
125 - accuses Iced of going after vocal players as part of an anti-town strategy
127 - asks Titus and SJ for their thoughts on Iced's plan
133 - more argument with Iced
135 - continued argument
145 - readlist with Mesk, yzb, and SJ for town, myself, Iced, Gyrlander, and Orpz for Null, and Titus+Crypt for scum; mostly meta reads; votes Crypt
147 - defends nullread on Iced on the grounds that he's previously misread town Iced before; explains Crypt vote on grounds of "negative utility"
180 - defends Gyrlander as being a village idiot, says SJ is coming from a town mindset
181 - explains lack of interaction with Crypt as a timezone issue
183 - says he likes Gyrlander for finding a non-existent contradiction in his play
186 - asks Crypt to further his reads
270 - follows Iced's vote onto Titus, saying he has been "liking" Iced more; explains abandoning the Crypt vote on the grounds it was merely to pressure him into talking more
273 - townreads Iced for "rageface"
286 - "likes" Cryptonic for "approaching the game from a different angle"
292 - says his actions were "to get people talking" in response to Orpz' vote
299 - says his vote on Crypt was a RV
307 - asks Gyrlander if he wants anything else explained, in response to his vote.
315 - comments that he can see the reasoning behind a Whad/SJ connection
349 - tells Titus "I think we need to focus on Orpz or SJ"
351 - says he needs to analyze the Gyrlander/Orpz/Crypt reaction to his SJ townread because they could be scum with SJ
360 - backtracks that he's merely "re-evaluating reads"
361 - votes Orpz, with Cryptonic as backup candidate.

HOLY SHIT STOP LYING IF YOU'RE TOWN. THERE IS NO REASON RVS SHOULD LAST FOR MOST OF D1. IF YOU ARE TOWN, STOP LYING ABOUT YOUR READS, AND STOP LYING ABOUT THEM RIGHT NOW.

Please tell me I'm not the only one seeing the complete lack of sincerity here. Whad goes from speculating someone is scum, to voting them, to then townreading them soon after. And they're shallow townreads at that. After basically any response to his vote, he abandons the train. And why? Oh, it was just a random vote. What the shit? And that's not even half of it.

He townreads lower-skill players on light meta reasons and refuses to commit to calling anyone scum. Why? Maybe he's just an unconfident town, or maybe he knows everyone's alignment and can't get himself to fake a scumread. But if he's the former, why the facade of confidence?

-vote Whad

@Whad , I would frankly policy lynch you at this point for so much deception. In a nightless game with no TPRs, lying about your reads only causes chaos. If you're town, that shit stops RIGHT NOW. If you're scum, then I appreciate your boldness. It's something we don't see from scum as much these days, but I really can't let it slide.

If you're town, this is your last chance. Answer these questions, and if you lie one more time you are absolutely dead.
1. Which of your votes on Iced, Crypt, Titus, and Orpz have been because you actually scumread them, as opposed to reaction testing?
2. What are your REAL reads as of this moment?
3. Why were you so adamant that Iced could only be pushing you if he were scum or town with a vendetta?

I find it incredibly odd that so many people keep misrepping me. Like actually, scum team must be Orpz, Cryptonic, Mattzed, and Gyrlander is just pocketed. Otherwise, (and I refuse to believe) that Orpz, Cryptonic, and Mattzed are just this bad.

-I am NOT lying about reads. I am not still in RVS. And for you to suggest I still am suggests either you didn't read or are scum.

-My thought process is as follows. See people who I find lurky/scummy. Vote person. Wait to hear what they have to say. Re-evaluate reads. Decide to keep vote or move on to next scummy person.

I want to pull out this sentence in particular:

If you're scum, then I appreciate your boldness. It's something we don't see from scum as much these days, but I really can't let it slide.

This here is overconfident scum. I often play in games where scum players will like, almost compliment someone. Stuff like "If you're scum then that's incredible". This is not what a townie says. This is not MattZed trying to compliment my scum play since a. I'm not scum and b. he's scum and KNOWS he's not complimenting me.

To answer his questions:
1. Titus & Orpz. Crypt was my last RVS vote, but was not a reaction test.
2. Real reads are
Town: Iced Monopoly, yzb, Titus, mesk
VI pocketed by scum: Gyrlander
??: SuperJack
Scum: Orpz, Crypt, MattZed
3. Last time I played with Iced he said he never wanted to play with me or Empathy13 again since we both riled him up during MW3. Thought he was holding onto that beef but I guess he wasn't.

[Whad]

Hope everyone sees what is happening here. I unfortunately won't be around the rest of the day and should have left already but good luck fellow townies and notice exactly who is pushing my train.

[Gyrlander]

-unvote

There was a comment of yours that I saw as town.

[Cryptonic]

@Whad
Give a full read on SuperJack for us, please.
Also, give one on me.

SuperJack takes priority, because I want someone to give a read on him.
Give one on me after because I can tell more easily if a read on me makes sense or not.

[Titus]

Seriously, not one decent wagon. That unvote by Gyr was pbad. Deadline's coming and most Americans will be at work. I think Gyr wants a deadline lynch on Wad with no accountability.

-vote Gyrlander

Flashwagon?

[Cryptonic]

Mesk still best lynch (sorry Mesk )

[SuperJack]

Yea
Iced defended you
Mesk reads you as Town
Titus jumped on your train fast
Orpz jumped on your train fast
I pushed a lynch on you


That's 5 people it gives information on.

Looks like you are trying to really over sell the value of a mesk lynch. Even using her own town read on herself as "information"

Mesk isn't readable. She is just a flip. It's like Mcnuggets. They are and always will be Mcnuggets, unless they change. Yet there is no change.

Stop cosigning.

[SuperJack]

Easy way to see if Mesk is Town. See if the scum kill her. At this game they should know that leaving mesk alive as town never ends well.

[Cryptonic]

Easy way to see if Mesk is Town. See if the scum kill her. At this game they should know that leaving mesk alive as town never ends well.

Is this serious?

Read this thread.
Read the setup.
Read the game title.

[Cryptonic]

Looks like you are trying to really over sell the value of a mesk lynch. Even using her own town read on herself as "information"

Mesk isn't readable. She is just a flip. It's like Mcnuggets. They are and always will be Mcnuggets, unless they change. Yet there is no change.

Stop cosigning.

Yea, Mesk isn't easily readable, so a flip on an unreadable slot with several player interactions offer the most information.


If you're going to try to tell me what to do in a game, at least know what the hell is going on in the game. Jesus.

[Cryptonic]

Looks like you are trying to really over sell the value of a mesk lynch. Even using her own town read on herself as "information"

Mesk isn't readable. She is just a flip. It's like Mcnuggets. They are and always will be Mcnuggets, unless they change. Yet there is no change.

Stop cosigning.

Also, if you spent like 10 seconds reading, you'd see that the "Mesk reads you as Town" was a typo which was corrected in the following post. It was to read "Whad reads you as Town".

[Titus]

Mesk still best lynch (sorry Mesk )

Well you're voting my townread so *shrug*. All the wagons I care for are equally vanity wagons. The only place I could compromise on is Orpz. I hard tr you and Whad so...

[Gyrlander]

Seriously, not one decent wagon. That unvote by Gyr was pbad. Deadline's coming and most Americans will be at work. I think Gyr wants a deadline lynch on Wad with no accountability.

-vote Gyrlander

Flashwagon?

"Most americans will be at work so let me vote you without any actual meaning because it won't happen."

[Cryptonic]

Well you're voting my townread so *shrug*. All the wagons I care for are equally vanity wagons. The only place I could compromise on is Orpz. I hard tr you and Whad so...

A major problem I see with a Whad lynch is if he flips Town then we literally gain 0 information from the lynch.

[yzb25]

Present. Will start catching up.

[Gyrlander]

Please be here around deadline, as I'll try to explain why I suddenly town read (or better, don't see worth lynching) Whad.

[SuperJack]

Yea, Mesk isn't easily readable, so a flip on an unreadable slot with several player interactions offer the most information.


If you're going to try to tell me what to do in a game, at least know what the hell is going on in the game. Jesus.

Nah she was easy scum in the FM. She just needs time to slip, but it will happen.

[SuperJack]

Is this serious?

Read this thread.
Read the setup.
Read the game title.

LOL. I knew there was no night, didn't know they got no kill.
I tend to skip a lot of posts until they ping me like yours did.

[SuperJack]

Another issue I have. Is how you are coming from. A "which lynch gives more information" instead of "most likely scum"
Problem is, you could be pushing a lynch which gives us the information you want us to see. Instead of focusing on lynching scum.

[Titus]

A major problem I see with a Whad lynch is if he flips Town then we literally gain 0 information from the lynch.

Then why are you on it? Why not Gyr or Iced? Or Mesk?

[Cryptonic]

Then why are you on it? Why not Gyr or Iced? Or Mesk?

There are a few reasons.

For one, I don't like Whad's reasoning this game. Then they try to defend themselves by backing up and saying they were doing things for reactions, random voting, ect. I don't believe that. I think the simpler solution is that they attempt to look Town, got called out for it, and doesn't have a logical reason for their actions. While a Town-flip Whad doesn't give any information, the Scum-flip Whad does provide us with information.

Another, more obvious reason is that I will then have the same number of votes as the biggest train if I were to move to my preferred lynch (Mesk). Not only am I in a position where I could be randomed off in the lynch, but I am in a position where someone could easily move their vote over and put me in a position where I am the confirmed lynch.

If Mesk was at L-4 currently, my vote would be on her. Not on Whad.


I also wouldn't be voting Gyrlander or Iced today.

[Cryptonic]

Another issue I have. Is how you are coming from. A "which lynch gives more information" instead of "most likely scum"
Problem is, you could be pushing a lynch which gives us the information you want us to see. Instead of focusing on lynching scum.

Because I don't really see many signs today of "most likely scum".... So, how can I push for something I do not see? So, in return, I pushed the second best thing. Someone who MIGHT flip scum, and will offer loads of information regardless of the flip. I even stated that the flip offers information on myself; if Mesk flips Town, that doesn't paint me in the best light.


Please don't tell me how to play when you don't even read the game nor the setup. Like, we went over the lack of night kill over like 100 posts... The main case against Gyrlander was that he didn't know that Mafia had no NK... You have no idea what's going on, and you're tunneling in an attempt to stay relevant.

[Titus]

Because I don't really see many signs today of "most likely scum".... So, how can I push for something I do not see? So, in return, I pushed the second best thing. Someone who MIGHT flip scum, and will offer loads of information regardless of the flip. I even stated that the flip offers information on myself; if Mesk flips Town, that doesn't paint me in the best light.


Please don't tell me how to play when you don't even read the game nor the setup. Like, we went over the lack of night kill over like 100 posts... The main case against Gyrlander was that he didn't know that Mafia had no NK... You have no idea what's going on, and you're tunneling in an attempt to stay relevant.

I'm feeling lazy, I'm not seeing motion of votes to avoid a no lynch.

What happens in deadline no lynch?

[Cryptonic]

I'm feeling lazy, I'm not seeing motion of votes to avoid a no lynch.

What happens in deadline no lynch?

More votes get lynched, or randomed between those with most votes.

[Titus]

More votes get lynched, or randomed between those with most votes.

Well that explains why I cannot get a viable wagon with my reads. Town's imploding. Just help a woman out will you?

[Titus]

"Most americans will be at work so let me vote you without any actual meaning because it won't happen."

Yeah, the guy who isn't voting at all shades someone for trying to swing a wagon on scum.

And you unvoted because of "a comment" that "felt town". That's really easy to retcon later.

[Mesk514]

Town's imploding. Just help a woman out will you?

Sure

-vote Titus

[Cryptonic]

Idk if I can help you out, because I don't really read you as town. I feel like you're trying to appease me and never engaging with me.

[Gyrlander]

Now that I'm trying to think more from Whad's side, don't you think that MZ post ISO'ing Whad is quite strange and suspicious. He always does the same every game, and even if at first sight it seems like it's useful, he can easily trick us if we think that. I am thinking MZ may be misrepping Whad and is scum who is trying to get on the train that seemed to be going to be the final lynch but wanted to do it in a "natural" way. And which way is better than doing something that he does all games?

[yzb25]

Literally one page from the end. I just wanna have a ramble about Mattzed's ISO, before I forget all the thoughts invading my brain.

Whad's "flip-flopping" on Iced is the most natural thing in the world. It's obvious Whad was thinking "shit, I can't understand Iced's push on me from any perspective but "he's opportunistically trying to kill me". I just don't understand his reasoning, but I know we've had a lot of drama in the past and I don't wanna be too quick to judge the guy and repeat past mistakes. Man, if I don't trust my reasons for scumreading him, I guess I should place him as a nullread? Nah, fuck it, I'll vote him. Oooh, actually, outside of this strategy thing Iced has said some towny things."

I even directly asked Whad "Do you think Iced is a scum pushing you opportunistically" and he tried really hard to give a nuanced, balanced response of "well I don't wanna jump the gun because I wanna try and understand the guy". If Whad was scum trying to discredit Iced's push, that was the perfect chance to go "yes that's exactly what I suspect! Here's 10 lines about why he seems opportunistic!". This crucial interaction got a tiny-ass mention in Matt's ISO.

Look, I agree that, even if it is page 7, Whad's over-reliance on meta to determine the alignment of Mesk, Crypt and Titus is bad. That said, it's not like relying on metareads for PAGE FUCKING 7 is some egregious act. It's also natural to see the first few SJ posts and say "ooh that doesn't look like the kind of shit scum would do" and then later see that SJ has followed it up with jack-shit and "reassess".


---Honestly, I don't scumread Mattzed for all this misrep. I think there's just been some fundamental misunderstandings going on. I'm going to try reading that again at some point to try and empathize with / understand how those misunderstandings could develop.---

But still, Mattzed painting Whad's mind-changing as him lying about his reads is absurd. There's a consistent, followable development to his thought process. I know Crypt wanted me to give more thoughts on Whad's reads, so hopefully this inadvertently functions as a response to that too.

[yzb25]

Now that I'm trying to think more from Whad's side, don't you think that MZ post ISO'ing Whad is quite strange and suspicious. He always does the same every game, and even if at first sight it seems like it's useful, he can easily trick us if we think that. I am thinking MZ may be misrepping Whad and is scum who is trying to get on the train that seemed to be going to be the final lynch but wanted to do it in a "natural" way. And which way is better than doing something that he does all games?

When I first read it, I immediately felt that way. However, sometimes Mattzed greatly misunderstands people. I'm going to try and reach out to the guy before I make my mind up.

[MattZed]

I find it incredibly odd that so many people keep misrepping me. Like actually, scum team must be Orpz, Cryptonic, Mattzed, and Gyrlander is just pocketed. Otherwise, (and I refuse to believe) that Orpz, Cryptonic, and Mattzed are just this bad.

-I am NOT lying about reads. I am not still in RVS. And for you to suggest I still am suggests either you didn't read or are scum.

-My thought process is as follows. See people who I find lurky/scummy. Vote person. Wait to hear what they have to say. Re-evaluate reads. Decide to keep vote or move on to next scummy person.

I want to pull out this sentence in particular:



This here is overconfident scum. I often play in games where scum players will like, almost compliment someone. Stuff like "If you're scum then that's incredible". This is not what a townie says. This is not MattZed trying to compliment my scum play since a. I'm not scum and b. he's scum and KNOWS he's not complimenting me.

To answer his questions:
1. Titus & Orpz. Crypt was my last RVS vote, but was not a reaction test.
2. Real reads are
Town: Iced Monopoly, yzb, Titus, mesk
VI pocketed by scum: Gyrlander
??: SuperJack
Scum: Orpz, Crypt, MattZed
3. Last time I played with Iced he said he never wanted to play with me or Empathy13 again since we both riled him up during MW3. Thought he was holding onto that beef but I guess he wasn't.

If you're town, we're REALLY going to need to talk about your D1 play after this game. YES, you lied. You admitted yourself that the Crypt vote wasn't because you thought it was him, even though you listed him as a top scumread when you voted him. You ADMITTED you stole SJ's reason just to vote Crypt, even though you didn't follow it.

And there's the incincerity. You made a readlist you didn't believe, voted someone from it, and then didn't clarify your true "reads" until heavily prompted. If you're going to spend most of the say engaged in active deception, you're playing against my wincon, and I'm not okay with that. It's time for you to eat rope.

I have no intention to change my vote. I will return in about 3 hours.

[yzb25]

Given that now SJ and Crypt have also said they were unclear on the nightkill situation, I think I have to revoke what I've said in the past by raw statistics, even if I still can't relate to it lol. Anyway, Gyr tries to "inadvertently confirm himself as town" in almost every game, so I didn't see it as implausible at the time that this was how he planned to do it in this game. When he said "no I genuinely forgot" I read that as him feeling the need to deny it because he's scum - that was the basis of my scumread.