S-FM 220: Empire

[Unknown1234]

From the vote post:



Where are you going with this? >_>

Because the only two people around are you and I, so I am analyzing people. I also would prefer not to lynch Sino, but given I don't have a good enough reason not to I may end up doing so if there is no other options.

I was making sure it wasn't someone hopping onto the Sino train.

[Calix]

Because the only two people around are you and I, so I am analyzing people. I also would prefer not to lynch Sino, but given I don't have a good enough reason not to I may end up doing so if there is no other options.

I was making sure it wasn't someone hopping onto the Sino train.

Alright. I'll be lurking around for a bit and see what you do.

Honestly I don't find any of the Sino town-reads compelling but then again, I never do, and I suck at finding town motivation

[Sino]

Because the only two people around are you and I, so I am analyzing people. I also would prefer not to lynch Sino, but given I don't have a good enough reason not to I may end up doing so if there is no other options.

I was making sure it wasn't someone hopping onto the Sino train.

Remember the list i asked SJ to post, could you post it aswell please ?

Basically who are you willnig to lynch and who aren't you willing to lynch at this point ?

[Unknown1234]

The fact that you and Unknown seem to really like each bothers me immensely. Not in the "I think you are buddying" sort of way, but in the "my scumreads and townleads getting along is never a good sign." Unknown goes for basically nothing except for cheap shots backed up with 0 analysis of actual posts. Sure, that's more of a playstyle critique than necessarily an alignment insight, but it's bad play that's pinged me several times and it has so far served to hurt town. I've seen him do better, so the explanation that he's unconfident scum trying to appear helpful but not wanting to say much just can't get out of my head. Although, as for outright scummy play, he was casting shade on Sino right around the time Sino got that nonsensically-fast train, (which I would prefer you see incorporate somehow into your read of him) and is in general falling into siding against those that seem generally unpopular.

Sino is an absolute no-lynch from me and currently my strongest townread, largely as a result of being my deepest read.

Mesk, and RLVG, with not a strong preference between RLVG and Mesk. Mesk and RLVG for being basically useless.

My eyes literally gloss over whenever I read a DW post. tbh, gonna ISO him right now.

I wasn't really a fan of Matt before this either, but his argument is just picking on stuff that isn't there but he won't provide examples of it. Ill poke about my concerns about his thinking process now while the chat isn't being spammed so it'll be read.

Cheap shots and 0 analysis are not true. He only quoted two posts showing how I "miss repped Sino" and nothing else. I don't remember any cheap shots either and I explained that I was voting Sino because he was using early meta references to try to make others look scummy.

He says it pinged him "several times" but only showed me two posts. I think he is just adding onto his argument as he goes and was trying to get enough dirt on me when I was sleeping. He did this exact same thing to SuperJack and it's weird that he attacks people when he knows they're asleep (as if he doesn't want discussion).

I don't see how I would ever appear to be unconfident or trying to appear helpful as scum when I am, so I don't understand how you reach these conclusions.I need examples from you or you are just basically attacking me for no reason.

I also countered the Sino shade-throwing, which he ignored btw.

Last comment makes no sense. "General falling into sliding against those that seem generally unpopular".

Sino is an absolute no-lynch and yet he just left to sleep and left his vote on Sino for who knows how long. He had a really weird switch that I found suspicious because it showed no encouragement at all.

He doesn't consider any other motives except that they are useless. Doesn't even bother to read their posts, claims, how they interact, etc.

But he doesn't say why about Deathworlds. Also I never saw an ISO on him.

@MattZed please respond to this when you wake.

[Unknown1234]

Remember the list i asked SJ to post, could you post it aswell please ?

Basically who are you willnig to lynch and who aren't you willing to lynch at this point ?

What list are you referring to?

I would lynch:
Deathworlds
RLVG
MattZed
Secondpassing

Who I wouldn't lynch:
Calix
SilverWolf
SuperJack
Mesk

Who I don't really know what to say about:
IKA
Sino (low priority lynch)
Anyone else I can't remember right now because they aren't a lynch priority.

[Unknown1234]

Scratch that last line, I did cover everyone.

[Sino]

What list are you referring to?

I would lynch:
Deathworlds
RLVG
MattZed
Secondpassing

Who I wouldn't lynch:
Calix
SilverWolf
SuperJack
Mesk

Who I don't really know what to say about:
IKA
Sino (low priority lynch)
Anyone else I can't remember right now because they aren't a lynch priority.

I was referring to this :

Here are the players i'm fine with being lynched :

-Calix : She did suggest for the neutral to do something he'd never do, plus the fact she's not asking Mesk to participate, i know she generates a lot of discussion, but the town's goal is to lynch scum.
-RLVG : In his few posts, he didn't really give his opinion about anything that has happened in this game, his posts do nothing for town.
-Mesk : Yeah, she claimed citizen, so what ? That's mostly personal, but why would she given a free pass for her "plays" every game ?

Here are the players i'm not sure about and need to re-read :

-SilverWolf : She made some good points in her interaction with yzb earlier, not sure how i read her.
-ika : I'll wait for him to post his opinions before making a decision.
-SuperJack : I'm currently second-guessing what i said earlier.
-secondpassing : Except for his "reaction test" nothing strikes me as scummy in this slot, i admit that's mostly meta, comparing his play now with his WoM play.
-deathworlds : Mostly a null to me, his play here reminds me of his Fringe play.
-yzb25 : His interaction with SW seemed careless, asking someone to update their reads like he did isn't something scum would do when he's been absent for half the day.

Here are the players i'm not willing to lynch :

-Unknown : Same vibe as in Fringe.
-MattZed : His early interaction with Calix feels genuine, going with her at first to suddenly calling her neutral

Deathworlds - If I was forced to choose someone lynched right now. It would be him. I feel so far his play feels just like his d2 scum play from earlier. And I've come to trust my thoughts more after the past few games being quite accurate.
MattZed - Our confrontation from earlier has yet to come to a Conclusion, and I am in Need of a re-read of his posts. But I will stick with my guns for now.
Sino - From our previous interactions, I fell he had commented on thins such as my votes, but not bothered to explain why. I have a feeling I'm going to be his attempt of a scapegoat. I've kept out of pressuring him as other have done a fine jobs, and I am understanding of their reason-sings.

These two players are currently active, and I will not consider lynching them until after the discussion have held.
SilverWolf -
yzb25 -

These two players I need to re-read and they need to post more before I make my decision.
RLVG -
ika -


Unknown1234 - Starting to move closer away from the Nulls, Unknown has not said anything that has raised any flags
secondpassing - I felt that the L2 vote was over-dramatised, no one could of quick hammered especially early in the day & with active voters around. They are also playing like they don give much fucks about being lynched. Which to me is more of a Town tell than a Scum tell.
Calix - Even if she is scum, the amount of discussion being generated by her is pro-town and a lynch on her will result in much less day activity.
Mesk514 - Voting this slot would just be a PL, too easy to vote up and will give little information from it.



Yoour Turn Sino =)

[Calix]

Unknown, I have a question. How much of your indecision over voting for Sino is influenced by your read on MZ?

This is a bit specific, but it has a point

[Unknown1234]

Very little, if any. I was reluctant to vote Sino even before Matt wanted to vote him, but I don't like Matt.

[Calix]

Good, that saves me the effort then xD

I'll let you go back to doing your thing.

[Unknown1234]

Gonna go shovel the drive way I'll be back!

[Sino]

Alright, i'll be leaving shortly now, as i said before, i'll probably be back around one hour before EoD.

Before going off, i wanted to say one thing about MZ's vote on me : while it may seem odd, it tells me he's not trying to buddy me and actively seeks to resolve the game, so it reinforces my town read on him.

[Unknown1234]

I ended up shovelling three driveways woo woo!

[Unknown1234]

Alright, i'll be leaving shortly now, as i said before, i'll probably be back around one hour before EoD.

Before going off, i wanted to say one thing about MZ's vote on me : while it may seem odd, it tells me he's not trying to buddy me and actively seeks to resolve the game, so it reinforces my town read on him.

How does it show he's actively trying to solve the game? Did u read the vote post?

[Unknown1234]

I just read through IKA and I still don't know where to put him.

[Unknown1234]

Hi Mesk!

[Calix]

I just read through IKA and I still don't know where to put him.

More detail on what townie/ scummy things you found would be good. I am too preoccupied to ISO myself but I could give you a hand.

Also I want it for the record that if Sino walks in near EOD and tries claiming TPR, I'm probably going to lynch him anyway.

He hasn't been acting like town, regardless of role, and I don't him getting the idea that he can save his arse by claiming one.

It reminds me of Mesk's play in RTN. She was scummy as fuck and only escaped the noose because SJ didn't counterclaim her Lookout claim

I'd like to avoid a repeat of that scenario.

[Unknown1234]

When a major event happens let me know.

I have already given my thoughts on stuff that have caught my eye. If you feel like there is something more I should be comment on let me know.

A lot of IKAs posts have been very Null IMO the one thing I can notably find suspicious is how often they ask people to engage them instead of engaging others and trying to interact with people. The most interaction I've seen from them is with SW which isn't too surprising.

[Unknown1234]

nobody has adressed much to me directly, as you know of all people i get better reads of interactions

i think you are town right now yes but i have this parnoid side of me that has me suspcious so i am not hard slotting anything yet

They also seem to be quite fence-sitting in some of their posts. They'll say that someone is scummy by also Town in the same post.

[Unknown1234]

why would scums not want to turbo i mena its all the rage right now isnt it?

This is a weird conclusion to make, but it's posts like this that don't seem AI of anything.

[Unknown1234]

Sino
Unknown1234
Deathworlds
Mesk514
SuperJack
MattZed
RLVG
yzb25
SilverWolf
ika
Calix
secondpassing

something like this are my reads off the top of my head. i have nto looked into details yet cus the game is running a million miles and i get having new post before me.

ill porb do a reread overnight if it slows down

I didn't like their reads, but once again I'm not really sure scum would WANT to have little opinions on people. Also view the few posts before this and notice how IKA says they would lynch SW maybe if it came down to it.

[Unknown1234]

you relaize your the single person that bugs me the most. i got this naggling feeling that your not town but at the same time you post come off as town so im torn on it.

my guts tell me one thing but my brain tells me another basicly

so yes ill defend you over some stuff (like yzb stupis bullshit) but if your run up for a lynch i might not stop it

Yeah, it was here. IKA says they'll lynch SW possibly (which shows agai that they are too fence-sitting) but at the same time leaves wiggling room. They also had SW as a top read.

[Sino]

More detail on what townie/ scummy things you found would be good. I am too preoccupied to ISO myself but I could give you a hand.

Also I want it for the record that if Sino walks in near EOD and tries claiming TPR, I'm probably going to lynch him anyway.

He hasn't been acting like town, regardless of role, and I don't him getting the idea that he can save his arse by claiming one.

It reminds me of Mesk's play in RTN. She was scummy as fuck and only escaped the noose because SJ didn't counterclaim her Lookout claim

I'd like to avoid a repeat of that scenario.

LOL so basically, "no matter what he claims, just lynch him"

That's way scummier than everything I may have said or done this game, where's the town motivation in that ? Can't see any.

[Unknown1234]

well unknwo is still town for reasons said earlier.

death i need to reread

superjack im not convinced is town his posting reads really flat right now

mesk i read as town for her claim and that if what she said is true is trust telling

RLVG i need to reread but msot times i can read him accurately

anyone i miss offhand?

Part 1 of reads list. 60% of the reads involve a stance that "isn't convinced"

[Unknown1234]

matt i would lynch mostly due to the fact his early plan was full of holes and he still went though with it (or tried to say tio was good when i showed him the obvious falw and he ignores site meta when it comes ot claimed neutrals)

sino is a town read mostly due to the fact hes jsut oblvious and doesnt actualy read anything and seems to jsut OMGUS everything

seocndpassing i would lynch also, while his little iso stuff was nice it doesnt change all the stupid fucking scum shit hes said

Part two of reads list. It's really hard to follow Ika's thought process sometimes.

[Unknown1234]

i feel liek after being serious for so long there needs to be a relaife time and this is it.

have some fun and troll a bit. you never know you might like it

or i could post dog pics in here and derail the enitre thread :P

I get the vibe that IKA has been trying to steer the game off topic quite a bit.

Not sure if this stuff is enough for a scum-read though.

[Calix]

LOL so basically, "no matter what he claims, just lynch him"

That's way scummier than everything I may have said or done this game, where's the town motivation in that ? Can't see any.

Uh, I thought you were supposed to have disappeared by now. Convenient that you come back here, criticise me for saying "a rushed TPR claim near EOD from Sino is bullshit" and then disappear again.

No real TPR would wait until an hour from EOD to claim TPR because THEY'RE A FUCKING TPR.

The fact that you're postponing your claim = Citizen claim.

Simple as that.

Stop whining because I see what you're doing, lol.

[Calix]

A lot of IKAs posts have been very Null IMO the one thing I can notably find suspicious is how often they ask people to engage them instead of engaging others and trying to interact with people. The most interaction I've seen from them is with SW which isn't too surprising.

Yeah, I think the lack of initiative is the most suspicious point to me. I didn't like him asking people who he should ISO, for example, when he should be trying to sort out his null reads or whatever.

They also seem to be quite fence-sitting in some of their posts. They'll say that someone is scummy by also Town in the same post.

Not a terrible point. However I can see town!ika expressing legitimate paranoia here.

This is a weird conclusion to make, but it's posts like this that don't seem AI of anything.

That's not AI.

I didn't like their reads, but once again I'm not really sure scum would WANT to have little opinions on people. Also view the few posts before this and notice how IKA says they would lynch SW maybe if it came down to it.

I don't think the reads list is AI either because I can see him being overwhelmed by the mass of posting and wanting to reread it later or whatever.

The fact that his later reads are still fairly wishy-washy is more compelling as an argument imo.

I get the vibe that IKA has been trying to steer the game off topic quite a bit.

Not sure if this stuff is enough for a scum-read though.

Do you mean with the Neutral talk? Not sure what else you'd refer to.

I can see where you're coming from, however. I'm downgrading my read to null-town.

[Sino]

Uh, I thought you were supposed to have disappeared by now. Convenient that you come back here, criticise me for saying "a rushed TPR claim near EOD from Sino is bullshit" and then disappear again.

No real TPR would wait until an hour from EOD to claim TPR because THEY'RE A FUCKING TPR.

The fact that you're postponing your claim = Citizen claim.

Simple as that.

Stop whining because I see what you're doing, lol.

I'm on my phone on a train, I can claim sooner if that's what people want, but it would just be more convenient for me to wait until i'm at home

[Calix]

I'm on my phone on a train, I can claim sooner if that's what people want, but it would just be more convenient for me to wait until i'm at home

It's not more convenient for the rest of us who have to deal with a claim AN HOUR BEFORE THE DAY ENDS.

I want to see what Unknown says about having you claim early. I want that but I'll take the second opinion.

[Unknown1234]

But not just with the neutral comments (though that is apart of it) it's also their conversations with SW that sometimes aren't game related

[Unknown1234]

We have 6 hours left in the day, so if you are going to claim a PR or the leader role, then it's probably better to do it now so we can consider stuff.

[Calix]

But not just with the neutral comments (though that is apart of it) it's also their conversations with SW that sometimes aren't game related

I think that's just part of the package with those two so I don't think that counts.

[Sino]

We have 6 hours left in the day, so if you are going to claim a PR or the leader role, then it's probably better to do it now so we can consider stuff.

Alright,

I claim jailor, I can confirm myself by killing someone.

I'm about to watch Rogue One now, i'll check back in in about 2 hours.

[Calix]

That's a pretty weird claim but since scum have no KPN and can't fake it, it might be legit.

[Calix]

That's a pretty weird claim but since scum have no KPN and can't fake it, it might be legit.

(I am not counter-claiming)

[Unknown1234]

Couldn't the Empress take it technically?

[Unknown1234]

Jk I just checked.

[SilverWolf]

But not just with the neutral comments (though that is apart of it) it's also their conversations with SW that sometimes aren't game related

This is NAI, ika and I will do this in games regardless. It's a lot less now than it used to be. Your points on him fencesitting are better though. However ika is more of a gut and feel about people reader than using wall posts and a lot of logic to explain his reads. He also usually gets a lot more off interactions and will reach out to people he knows in games more than others. I think him being paranoid of me is a good sign and not trying to buddy, but the fencesitting is a legitimate point against him. Not enough for me to scumread but enough for me to keep an eye on down the road.

Also, I'd like to see Sino claim sooner rather than later. Unknown asking why I'm voting him is fair as it's been awhile since I updated my read there. It's a combination of defensiveness and the way he is OMGUSing people-those that back off their scumreads become town for it, those that start suspecting him become scum for it, I feel he is buddying Unknown also possibly because Unknown has played with him a lot. He's also acting different than the last two town games I've played with him-granted I was scum both times but still in those games he spent a lot of time methodically questioning and interacting with people to figure them out and was not nearly as reactive as he is here.

I live RLVG's newest posts except for one contradiction. He calls out Mesk for WIFOM regarding her claim, then goes ahead and claims Citizen himself, probably to create more WIFOM. Why else would you claim early like that for no reason? So his read on Mesk makes no sense.

MattZed looks pretty good in his latest posts. My biggest concern is the vote on Sino after hard core defending him, then leaving. He also has a problem with people leaving the thread at critical times. He may not like Sino's response to Calix pressure-this is something I don't like about Sino either. His concern about Unknown is fine but not really fleshed out and he makes no effort to really sort Unknown when Unknown is here. Kind of a flimsy read. I still like how he's trying to figure things out overall.

I would still switch to DW if needed before end of day. For the points I brought against him earlier. He's blending in, giving bad reasoning for votes, staying out of main convos, and most of his opinions follow the popular train of though when he bothers to give them. Also, lots of excuses to not get involved which I don't like.

One point about SuperJack I'd like to bring up-his comment about not knowing myself and yzb and waiting for us to finish our argument was fine but he never followed up. Like, what does he think about us now?

Also, yzb left before giving a reads list like he said he would and I really don't like that. I want to see that plus his opinion on myself and ika talking since he said that was beneficial to the game. I need to see a lot more from him.

pedit: I seen Sino claimed. I think that makes Sino either town jailor or Empress who is planning on taking that role if I read the setup correctly.

I'll go ahead and post this and check the setup more.

[SilverWolf]

Oh wait, Empress can't execute so we could always have Sino do that to prove his role and prove he's town?

[SilverWolf]

Also, Jailor can only execute on No Lynch so thoughts on having Sino execute a target to prove he's town and then no lynching today?

[RLVG]

I live RLVG's newest posts except for one contradiction. He calls out Mesk for WIFOM regarding her claim, then goes ahead and claims Citizen himself, probably to create more WIFOM. Why else would you claim early like that for no reason? So his read on Mesk makes no sense.

I'm just checking in before I pack gifts, and saw this.

There's zero WIFOM here. My claim is 100% Citizen and it can't be retracted. My call out on Mesk is still legitimate.
I even said I'm not the leader and there's not much I can offer other than discussion.

[Calix]

Oh wait, Empress can't execute so we could always have Sino do that to prove his role and prove he's town?

I'm trying to go through tinfoil scenarios where scum fake-claims Jailord. Only one I can think of is that Sino pretends he executed someone and failed because they were the Empress, thus mislynching that person before he dies himself.

But that's extremely far-fetched.

Not gonna lie, I don't really want to No-Lynch D1 because Sino will probably execute me if he's legit and I'd rather not die on N1 again. Call me self-centred.

[SilverWolf]

Also, Jailor can only execute on No Lynch so thoughts on having Sino execute a target to prove he's town and then no lynching today?

I actually like this idea a lot. We can confirm a town or scum with Sino and we can kill the person we all agree is the scummiest. I'm thinking probably deathworlds at this point unless someone has a really compelling case for someone else.

pedit: RLVG thoughts on this?

pedit: If Sino executes Calix who most are townreading I'd rage lynch his ass out of spite-we have to all agree or the majority does for it to work, we did this last game-Mafia Wars

[SilverWolf]

-vote unvote

[Unknown1234]

To be fair, both times I jailed I didn't listen to anyone lol.

[Calix]

I'd rather lynch today. As well as not wanting to die and all that, I'd like to have a flip today.

None of my arguments are very strong, I know this. I just don't want to wait another 24 hours for a single flip or what have you, lol.

If confirming Sino becomes necessary due to poor D2 performance then I'll consider it.

-vote unvote

[Unknown1234]

This is NAI, ika and I will do this in games regardless. It's a lot less now than it used to be. Your points on him fencesitting are better though. However ika is more of a gut and feel about people reader than using wall posts and a lot of logic to explain his reads. He also usually gets a lot more off interactions and will reach out to people he knows in games more than others. I think him being paranoid of me is a good sign and not trying to buddy, but the fencesitting is a legitimate point against him. Not enough for me to scumread but enough for me to keep an eye on down the road.

Also, I'd like to see Sino claim sooner rather than later. Unknown asking why I'm voting him is fair as it's been awhile since I updated my read there. It's a combination of defensiveness and the way he is OMGUSing people-those that back off their scumreads become town for it, those that start suspecting him become scum for it, I feel he is buddying Unknown also possibly because Unknown has played with him a lot. He's also acting different than the last two town games I've played with him-granted I was scum both times but still in those games he spent a lot of time methodically questioning and interacting with people to figure them out and was not nearly as reactive as he is here.

I live RLVG's newest posts except for one contradiction. He calls out Mesk for WIFOM regarding her claim, then goes ahead and claims Citizen himself, probably to create more WIFOM. Why else would you claim early like that for no reason? So his read on Mesk makes no sense.

MattZed looks pretty good in his latest posts. My biggest concern is the vote on Sino after hard core defending him, then leaving. He also has a problem with people leaving the thread at critical times. He may not like Sino's response to Calix pressure-this is something I don't like about Sino either. His concern about Unknown is fine but not really fleshed out and he makes no effort to really sort Unknown when Unknown is here. Kind of a flimsy read. I still like how he's trying to figure things out overall.

I would still switch to DW if needed before end of day. For the points I brought against him earlier. He's blending in, giving bad reasoning for votes, staying out of main convos, and most of his opinions follow the popular train of though when he bothers to give them. Also, lots of excuses to not get involved which I don't like.

One point about SuperJack I'd like to bring up-his comment about not knowing myself and yzb and waiting for us to finish our argument was fine but he never followed up. Like, what does he think about us now?

Also, yzb left before giving a reads list like he said he would and I really don't like that. I want to see that plus his opinion on myself and ika talking since he said that was beneficial to the game. I need to see a lot more from him.

pedit: I seen Sino claimed. I think that makes Sino either town jailor or Empress who is planning on taking that role if I read the setup correctly.

I'll go ahead and post this and check the setup more.

Do you find MattZed to be town in our latest argument more than myself? I don't agree with how you look at his posts in the argument that we just had.

[Unknown1234]

I agree with Calix only in the sense that if he's Empress claiming a role that could call him out, he probably wouldn't without a lot of conflict on himself.

[Unknown1234]

I didn't comment a lot on your wall post because most of it I agree with and will likely look over it soon. I would rather see why you look at MattZed and see him as trying to scum-hunt.