S-FM 218: Mafia Wars III

[Frozen Angel]

and why no one answered my question

having similar roles in SC2 ( i mean things beside citizen ) is normal?

anyway Knowing two kidnappers will be vanila in case of a lynch makes it sensible so I'm going with the assumption that both refered kidnappers (Elephant and the other one mentioned) are townish -

In case someone is kidnapped by two, will they have 2 night chats - one with each kidnapper? how that works

[Gyrlander]

and why no one answered my question

having similar roles in SC2 ( i mean things beside citizen ) is normal?

anyway Knowing two kidnappers will be vanila in case of a lynch makes it sensible so I'm going with the assumption that both refered kidnappers (Elephant and the other one mentioned) are townish -

In case someone is kidnapped by two, will they have 2 night chats - one with each kidnapper? how that works

If you mean in SC2 Arcade: Yes, absolutely normal.

If you mean in Sc2mafia forum: No, it's kinda uncommon.

If you mean in Mafia Wars: Last game we had 3 drug dealers so... yeah.

[Elephant]

Frozen Angel, you can't say you weren't okay with not allowing Cancer to claim, and then go ahead and vote anyways. The fact is, Cancer could have easily been Godfather/Consig, and you were perfectly okay with lynching them because of "reasons" that aren't terribly strong.

[Cancer]

Frozen Angel, you can't say you weren't okay with not allowing Cancer to claim, and then go ahead and vote anyways. The fact is, Cancer could have easily been Godfather/Consig, and you were perfectly okay with lynching them because of "reasons" that aren't terribly strong.

Frozen Angel did this day 1 as well. I questioned her about GETs troll vote on me which they liked, then didn't like, then said was progressive and wouldn't really take a clear stance on it. She is very wishy washy.

[Elephant]

There were two separate night chats for clarification. RLVG passed messages between the two chats (yes, I am aware of who the kidnapper is).

[Cancer]

Frozen Angel did this day 1 as well. I questioned her about GETs troll vote on me which they liked, then didn't like, then said was progressive and wouldn't really take a clear stance on it. She is very wishy washy.

Early* day 1

[Cancer]

I thought it was very out of character for Frozen Angel to call me mentally sick

Now that I'm sure she's scum I forgive her for it.

[Empathy17]

FA-Re-read ika's post. He never said Cancer was lying about their meta. It is bugging the crap out of me that you keep using that as a reason for your vote today when you gave several others at the actual time of your vote for not putting a vote down and then later did. The parts about you being careful/cautious/emotionless actually came from ika. He's working all day but if you want to talk to him later, I highly encourage the two of you to interact more.

~SW

[Frozen Angel]

Frozen Angel, you can't say you weren't okay with not allowing Cancer to claim, and then go ahead and vote anyways. The fact is, Cancer could have easily been Godfather/Consig, and you were perfectly okay with lynching them because of "reasons" that aren't terribly strong.

Why not? that's exactly what I did. and that was your test - to see if you will hammer or jail them to ask for claim. I wasn't perfectly ok with lynching them, I decided to lynch them anyway - and I just explained my whole thought process twice so if you have any questions regarding that you better ask for spescifics.

[Elephant]

Frozen Angel didn't vote.

[Elephant]

So, you are willing to miss lynch a possible Godfather simply because you were completing a test that doesn't even confirm us as Town?

[Frozen Angel]

I thought it was very out of character for Frozen Angel to call me mentally sick

Now that I'm sure she's scum I forgive her for it.

I asked if you scum or mentally sick and there was a third option that you were town with a reason like what you responded with, The reads you published later had no consistancy with what have been claimed

and SW Ika didn't need to say the words. he said it wasn't typical tool they used that he is aware of and he pointed out exactly to my concern about them - that they didn't make any read evaluation after claiming such a thing. I'm not using that as my reason - that was the thing that made me even consider cancer as a vote for EOD.

I'm not careful nor coutious and definitly not emotionless. I'm just refuting the built case on me with explining my logic is fluently simple detail to understand. putting that aside I felt voting cancer was right - eventhough I had multiple concerns about it (having concerns about wagon time of build is not townreading) I felt its right to go with it.

and I highly encourage Ika and everyone else to interact with me as much as they can.

[Cancer]

Frozen Angel didn't vote.

What are you talking about

[Cancer]

I asked if you scum or mentally sick and there was a third option that you were town with a reason like what you responded with, The reads you published later had no consistancy with what have been claimed

and SW Ika didn't need to say the words. he said it wasn't typical tool they used that he is aware of and he pointed out exactly to my concern about them - that they didn't make any read evaluation after claiming such a thing. I'm not using that as my reason - that was the thing that made me even consider cancer as a vote for EOD.

I'm not careful nor coutious and definitly not emotionless. I'm just refuting the built case on me with explining my logic is fluently simple detail to understand. putting that aside I felt voting cancer was right - eventhough I had multiple concerns about it (having concerns about wagon time of build is not townreading) I felt its right to go with it.

and I highly encourage Ika and everyone else to interact with me as much as they can.

So you were being anti town then, willing to turbo lynch an unclaimed slot. Cool.

You're still scum though.

[Cancer]

I feel FA that you are trying to give a different stance to our wagon yesterday. One where you read us more as scum, is this because we have noticed that you are scum?

-SJ @Work

[Frozen Angel]

So, you are willing to miss lynch a possible Godfather simply because you were completing a test that doesn't even confirm us as Town?

what are you talking about?

are you reading anything I say?

and no I had a scumread on cancer. and I'm not willing to mislynch anyone , I will vote my scumreads - and I won't endorse a day 1 no lynch in any manner - it was eaither your kidnap or cancer lynch at that point and I was ok with eaither at that point.

and Cancer I really hate that to happen, but yes. if thats on my scumread and when someone I trust their sense confirms my concern and when there is no other info to go on , yes I'm pretty much ok with lynching you - even if your unclaimed - though that will be bad and its better to let you claim and in this scenario there was a way for you to claim if elephant was town. so it would be highly informative.

and no I'm not.

pedit : OK SJ are you trying to throw shade on me here? cause saying shits like that is too easy. I'm 100% honest and 200% consistent in all my points and everything is out there to evaluate.

[Elephant]

what are you talking about?

are you reading anything I say?

and no I had a scumread on cancer. and I'm not willing to mislynch anyone , I will vote my scumreads - and I won't endorse a day 1 no lynch in any manner - it was eaither your kidnap or cancer lynch at that point and I was ok with eaither at that point.

and Cancer I really hate that to happen, but yes. if thats on my scumread and when someone I trust their sense confirms my concern and when there is no other info to go on , yes I'm pretty much ok with lynching you - even if your unclaimed - though that will be bad and its better to let you claim and in this scenario there was a way for you to claim if elephant was town. so it would be highly informative.

and no I'm not.

pedit : OK SJ are you trying to throw shade on me here? cause saying shits like that is too easy. I'm 100% honest and 200% consistent in all my points and everything is out there to evaluate.

But you didn't let your scum-read claim, and your scum-read could have been the Godfather, but you did not let them claim and instead decided to test us. This test doesn't even confirm us as Town unless you have some odd logic that I don't get.

I'm not lying, my issue is you don't seem to understand that you made a mistake.

[Cancer]

what are you talking about?

are you reading anything I say?

and no I had a scumread on cancer. and I'm not willing to mislynch anyone , I will vote my scumreads - and I won't endorse a day 1 no lynch in any manner - it was eaither your kidnap or cancer lynch at that point and I was ok with eaither at that point.

and Cancer I really hate that to happen, but yes. if thats on my scumread and when someone I trust their sense confirms my concern and when there is no other info to go on , yes I'm pretty much ok with lynching you - even if your unclaimed - though that will be bad and its better to let you claim and in this scenario there was a way for you to claim if elephant was town. so it would be highly informative.

and no I'm not.

pedit : OK SJ are you trying to throw shade on me here? cause saying shits like that is too easy. I'm 100% honest and 200% consistent in all my points and everything is out there to evaluate.

You're doing a lot of appeasing there.

[Cancer]

Don't forget FA to claim that we are "painting" you as scum.
But it makes no sense to paint scum as scum 0-o.

And yes I'm going to use the basic points to show how you are scum, especially when I'm at work. Because I have little time, along with the inability too dig deep.

[Gyrlander]

Uuuh FA is starting to look scummy... ~1

[Empathy17]

FA-Why are you trusting ika so much?

~SW

[Yukitaka Oni]

>)o.o)^ so one of the lucanio is a janitor?
Good to know their role now

[Gyrlander]

Dem underbosses should be searching for Janitorinos

[Frozen Angel]

But you didn't let your scum-read claim, and your scum-read could have been the Godfather, but you did not let them claim and instead decided to test us. This test doesn't even confirm us as Town unless you have some odd logic that I don't get.

I'm not lying, my issue is you don't seem to understand that you made a mistake.

When did I say I was trying to confirm you as town? and I myself said that its bad that there is no time for them to claim before this wagon goes forward. how is that doing anything with any part of my logic

and stop your nonsense one word advertising bullcrap SJ and instead of "apeasing" to every other player in game - answer the question I asked you multiple times.

and Gyrlander what about me tsrated to look scummy?

and when did I say I trust Ika so much? I trusted his sense that detected the same concern I had about you yesterday. I trsuted my own sense - and the fact he told me my concern in my face is why I was ok with sheeping empathy there.

and I said you are pretending your tunneling me to dodge the questions I asked or your trying to make this conversation all about me making everyone paranoid about me and just throwing a "I still scum read FA" or "your still scum FA" time to time to nudge the rest of the town conscious here. and yes you are doing that Cancer and I'm not sure if its scum or town you atm.

[Gyrlander]

what are you talking about?

are you reading anything I say?

and no I had a scumread on cancer. and I'm not willing to mislynch anyone , I will vote my scumreads - and I won't endorse a day 1 no lynch in any manner - it was eaither your kidnap or cancer lynch at that point and I was ok with eaither at that point.

and Cancer I really hate that to happen, but yes. if thats on my scumread and when someone I trust their sense confirms my concern and when there is no other info to go on , yes I'm pretty much ok with lynching you - even if your unclaimed - though that will be bad and its better to let you claim and in this scenario there was a way for you to claim if elephant was town. so it would be highly informative.

and no I'm not.

pedit : OK SJ are you trying to throw shade on me here? cause saying shits like that is too easy. I'm 100% honest and 200% consistent in all my points and everything is out there to evaluate.

This post feels scummy to me. Your way if defending as if we're inferior could be catalogued as "Over Defensive"

[Gyrlander]

-vote Frozen Angel

[Cancer]

I thought you were scum reading us? Now you're unsure? Since we're scum reading you?

[Frozen Angel]

Basically two things are my undoing : that I am reactionary as fuck , and I can't ignore anything. Thats a part of my mental issues - and one of the things that i was being held in an sylum for 3 years ago. not trying to bring my life to dodge a wagon. just scumread my personality and evaluate my play ...

Fire , Ika , anyone who knows me a bit can confirm this.

and this is not a self meta against the case represented on me. its a self meta explaining why I'm angry that this day is all about me atm when the only person who is (or at least was) scum reading me was cancer. I ask the rest of you to not scumread me based on defensiveness or talking too much about me and explain your concerns instead of jumping in the middle of this mud.

anyway, Lucas is sleep; so I'm more concentrated in this right now. Cancer I will get back to you with the things I didn't like about your day 1 and how I developed my scum lean on you in next post in the mean time you have all the space to explain the questions I asked and you dodged.

pedit : yeah I noticed someone will bring this up sooner or later ...

[Cancer]

I thought you were scum reading us? Now you're unsure? Since we're scum reading you?

This was in response to FA's "and yes you are doing that Cancer and I'm not sure if its scum or town you atm."

Just didn't wanna quote a wall

[Cancer]

Basically two things are my undoing : that I am reactionary as fuck , and I can't ignore anything. Thats a part of my mental issues - and one of the things that i was being held in an sylum for 3 years ago. not trying to bring my life to dodge a wagon. just scumread my personality and evaluate my play ...

Fire , Ika , anyone who knows me a bit can confirm this.

and this is not a self meta against the case represented on me. its a self meta explaining why I'm angry that this day is all about me atm when the only person who is (or at least was) scum reading me was cancer. I ask the rest of you to not scumread me based on defensiveness or talking too much about me and explain your concerns instead of jumping in the middle of this mud.

anyway, Lucas is sleep; so I'm more concentrated in this right now. Cancer I will get back to you with the things I didn't like about your day 1 and how I developed my scum lean on you in next post in the mean time you have all the space to explain the questions I asked and you dodged.

pedit : yeah I noticed someone will bring this up sooner or later ...

So now we were a scum lean only? Pretty careless letting a scum lean almost get quicklynched

[Cancer]

FA once again can't get her story straight

[Yukitaka Oni]

FA once again can't get her story straight

She's turning from being rude to avoid straight question you mean?

[Gyrlander]

My fee-fees are being manipulated.

[Frozen Angel]

that pedit was to gyrlander

I thought you were scum reading us? Now you're unsure? Since we're scum reading you?

I had several not sold on scum reads day 1 and you were one of them. This blitz deadlines here won't let me do my processes completly to reach the state of being more sure - this is not the first time this happens to me here.

so yes I'm not sure about you being scum, I was and still am scumreading you , and I'm trying to evaluate stuff based on new information and interactions

and your not helping me to do so by reclaiming your scumread on me , dodging to respond to my points and advertising my wagon and forcing me to respond back about myself.

[Cancer]

We were just discussing how its hilarious how scum didn't see Dicks soft repeated over and over

Dicks soft

Guess they found it too hard. To spot that is >.>

[Yukitaka Oni]

Consider from action night 0->today
It's either FBI failed to recruit night 0 or a (healer) just protect a mafia from being converted to a mole. Maybe?
And Lucarino has a janitor for sure.....

[Yukitaka Oni]

At least no shitposting so far today, that's a good start

[Cancer]

that pedit was to gyrlander



I had several not sold on scum reads day 1 and you were one of them. This blitz deadlines here won't let me do my processes completly to reach the state of being more sure - this is not the first time this happens to me here.

so yes I'm not sure about you being scum, I was and still am scumreading you , and I'm trying to evaluate stuff based on new information and interactions

and your not helping me to do so by reclaiming your scumread on me , dodging to respond to my points and advertising my wagon and forcing me to respond back about myself.

Just take a stance on something. Fence sitting is the most scummy thing in the world.

[Frozen Angel]

So now we were a scum lean only? Pretty careless letting a scum lean almost get quicklynched

Its really not considering the only other option in my hand back then was to no lynch

and I didn't quick lynch you. I actually gave two options possible and I declred my person in prison to elephant in case a no lynch and kidnap was prefered by others - when i wasn't around.

and that was prefered.

and I always said that I had a scumlean on you. I was doubtcasting on my read to make sure voting is the best option back there and I made a judgement call on my behalf. your not answering why that was scummy but others who made the same judgement call without reasoning are not scummy and your not responding back and elaborating anything in your discussion.

[Empathy17]

i dont feel strongly but i do tryst ika reads and im indicated to vote how much time remains?

Here's where you said you trust ika's reads. I understand he gave you reasoning you agree'd with but it really weird to have no natural paranoia of our slot.

First I didn't say you didn't try to stop ptb from being an asshole , I said you tried to poke the delima between emphaty and ptb and you did that. I asked you why and you said "I can analyze emotions better" that was satisfying answer for a while till the point you made a list full of null reads and no clue for you reading emotions. Ika confirmed none of you tow are people who are emotion pokers and reaction testers so that granted you an EOD1 vote from me. Don't call MS my homesite anymore. and yes I know better. In a reular mafia (time base the version I'm comfortable with) - we push people to L1 - let them claim - analyze the shit out of it and then get things done. In here though there isn't that time and the wagon on you wasn't shit. all my townreads were voting you - so yep I would lynch you -a person who had no train before EOD to get a lynch done with all my townreads. It was informative and it shaped in the best manner it could shapeso I was actually hoping it will end in your scumflip when I logged of - cause I was in a rush back then.

and no. noone policy lynch in MS - just saying that as a fact - not trying to mean anything. are you saying the vote on me is policy? cause I made you two upset with my EOD vote?

Yuki put you on L1 . fire voted you because he conceded. Please make it crstal clear what is your concern about my vote.

I copied the whole thing to keep it in context but the highlighted is where you said ika's saying they are not emotion pokers (even though he didn't really say that) was the reason for your vote.

I don't really have the motivation to read the whole interaction to see why I felt that way but I asked it from you and your slot answered me back with "because I/we can read emotions better" or something like that. I'm not scumreading you because you did or didn't trigger that fight, I'm scumreading you for what Ika claimed its a false meta - and because I didn't see any signs of you making any reads based on emotions later in your reads.

Again, saying ika saying they don't play off emotions was your reasoning here. He never said it was a false meta. He said he didn't think so but wasn't sure, especially in the case of Banana.

I'm not sure if your attempting to dodge the questions I asked - by pretending that your tunneled on me - or you just want others to notice you by repeating a nonsense advertisement before anyone else commenting on it.

pedit : That was the question SW what the hell are you talking about. I asked if the selfmeta SJ presented to avoid discussion was true or not and Ika said its not and he pointed out to their null reads. that was exactly what I was looking for from Ika to proceed with that wagon. I was hesitant to vote them and unsure becasue the wagon started very late not because I was townreading them - casue claiming in this game matters a lot.

and I waited a lot - to see if elephant will respond back to me - or jump on cancer or not - because that wouldn't make any sense becasue of their claim. I eventually voted because after making a list of pros and cons in my head , I decided to vote with my townreads.

and you don't know me if your trying to read me based on how much I'm defending myself. I am the same reactionary Frozen Angel which I was before and I will defend myself from any - even shitty accusation - all the time.

There is actually no other important matter to comment about atm - beside the fact cancer accused me of hypocrasy when the points they made are more applicaple to Yuki and Fire votes and though i don't scumread eaither for those naked voting, I don't understand why Cancer dodges answering about their main concern about my yesterday voting.

OK, here you say it's because of ika's self meta comment but then elaborated on the reasoning behind it that you like but you didn't say that earlier. However, I do that too sometimes. I elaborate later on a scumread so I'm not gonna say this is terrible right now.

I asked if you scum or mentally sick and there was a third option that you were town with a reason like what you responded with, The reads you published later had no consistancy with what have been claimed

and SW Ika didn't need to say the words. he said it wasn't typical tool they used that he is aware of and he pointed out exactly to my concern about them - that they didn't make any read evaluation after claiming such a thing. I'm not using that as my reason - that was the thing that made me even consider cancer as a vote for EOD.

I'm not careful nor coutious and definitly not emotionless. I'm just refuting the built case on me with explining my logic is fluently simple detail to understand. putting that aside I felt voting cancer was right - eventhough I had multiple concerns about it (having concerns about wagon time of build is not townreading) I felt its right to go with it.

and I highly encourage Ika and everyone else to interact with me as much as they can.

Well, but above you said the reason was ika said they are not emotion testers but here you are saying that's not the reason.

what are you talking about?

are you reading anything I say?

and no I had a scumread on cancer. and I'm not willing to mislynch anyone , I will vote my scumreads - and I won't endorse a day 1 no lynch in any manner - it was eaither your kidnap or cancer lynch at that point and I was ok with eaither at that point.

and Cancer I really hate that to happen, but yes. if thats on my scumread and when someone I trust their sense confirms my concern and when there is no other info to go on , yes I'm pretty much ok with lynching you - even if your unclaimed - though that will be bad and its better to let you claim and in this scenario there was a way for you to claim if elephant was town. so it would be highly informative.

and no I'm not.

pedit : OK SJ are you trying to throw shade on me here? cause saying shits like that is too easy. I'm 100% honest and 200% consistent in all my points and everything is out there to evaluate.

I haven't gone back to check but did you have a scumread on Cancer before ika and I gave our reasoning to you? I think you were nervous around this vote and are not consisten in your reasoning for it or your reasoning today for it and I'd like to know why.

~SW

[Frozen Angel]

Just take a stance on something. Fence sitting is the most scummy thing in the world.

I'm not fence siting and my reads are transparent as fuck when I'm developing them - always. I never tunnel - and If I was tunneling before - that I've been accused for doing that again and again before - now I'm changing that attidue by not considering things scum indicative and doubtcasting myself. thats what I do to make my reads on place and that was what I've been doing regarding everyone in game till this point.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Btw, why our (godfather claim RLVG) vote Cancer?

[Yukitaka Oni]

Btw, why our (godfather claim RLVG) vote Cancer?

And RLVG claim there are 2 kidnap ? There is no way (town) mafia should have this much (op) role right? It's like 2 vigilante and escort combined right?

[Gyrlander]

And RLVG claim there are 2 kidnap ? There is no way (town) mafia should have this much (op) role right? It's like 2 vigilante and escort combined right?

No. Only NL days. And the other game we had 3 Drug Dealers....

[Yukitaka Oni]

No. Only NL days. And the other game we had 3 Drug Dealers....

The fk lol?!?!? For real?!?!? v(O.o(v

[Frozen Angel]

just adding to last post and this playstyle is nothing new. It's been a while that I'm trying to - not trust myself - and thet resulted to keep my games calmer - and make me more accurate in pushes.

@SW I asked Cancer a question about what they were doing in the middle of your delimma and that ended up with SJ's claim that they read emotions better. I was scumreading that slot for not having a single read based on emotions or anything else and not pushing any shit for that - and I had a paranoia that banana if is teodete might be a little emotional himself but I don't recall SJ or even teo pushing someone based on emotions.

Ika expressed the same concern I had (not the meta part - that they didn't develop any reads that he can recall , and he said he don't think thats their meta too, that was enough for me to trsut my own feelings and go with the vote (and Get wa there and dw was there) so i went with it.

and I do townread you two based on what I feel about you that your uninformed and I don't get any vibes for scumminess from you, I liked your try for getting a lynch day 1 - though that might be biased based on my scumread on cancer - I liked the way you responded back to ptb. I am paranoid about you yes - as I am about most of my townreads most of the time but doubting you if it means scumreading you - no I'm not.

and in all my posts even the one your mentioning I said or its not written in omplete manner - but I never claimed otherwise that Ika post made me feel better about what I had in my mind about cancer.

I am overreactionary and defensive as fuck about anything against me - its not about the vote its like I can't explain myself to towns in you and the scums in you know or are doing this unintentionally - abusing the way I get when people push me - to make me look bad because I'm "overdefending" and I can't really ignore this convo to do what should I do to scumhunt - and no one else will be able to if this way of accusing me continues till I'm mislynched - cause I will defend myself more and my self explining posts will fill the game at this rate.

[Yukitaka Oni]

No. Only NL days. And the other game we had 3 Drug Dealers....

Well.....it could be...well that's why Lucarino can pick a secondary role right?
So it's a TPR war, not a (citizen) mafioso war...I see, that's make senses

[Frozen Angel]

And RLVG claim there are 2 kidnap ? There is no way (town) mafia should have this much (op) role right? It's like 2 vigilante and escort combined right?

Thats two killing + blocking in case we sarefise one if we no lynch atm.

we can actually - instead of lynching - come to a agreement to choose target for elephant and the annon kidnapper and let them do the kills instead of us. that will increase our chance for hitting scum or catching someone in lie as godfather is already claimed and kidnappers should know the identity of cons.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Thats two killing + blocking in case we sarefise one if we no lynch atm.

we can actually - instead of lynching - come to a agreement to choose target for elephant and the annon kidnapper and let them do the kills instead of us. that will increase our chance for hitting scum or catching someone in lie as godfather is already claimed and kidnappers should know the identity of cons.

Why not b)O.o)>?!?!? I totally agree with (let the jailor do the job)!

[Frozen Angel]

oh and I promised before that i will reread the part I questioned about cancer yesterday again with what banana said about their identities but I got occupied with this - whatever you wanna call it - and I couldn't

I will check in again in 2 hours or something like that again. till know bye.