Why women should not be allowed in combat roles

[Helz]

Just because I feel like being a devils advocate here is a position I recently flipped on with reasoning.

1-Logistics
Unless you go star-ship troopers style (which creates MASSIVE legal liability issues for any claimed problem) you have to double up on a lot of things. You need double the sleeping quarters, toilets, showers and a significant increase in medical care in order to accommodate women into any pediment base.

2-Buffalo
Just like buffalo males generally circle and protect females when danger comes around. I cant say what it was off the top of my head but this has been tested over and over and generally speaking guys become more interested in keeping the females in their unit alive than in accomplishing their mission

3-Biggots
I think it was the Scandinavian army that was so low on troops they brought women in. One issue they had was that they were fighting traditional muslims and those guys would rather fight to the death than surrender to a woman. This meant that instead of an enemy giving up they would just keep fighting until their last breath which resulted in more casualties.

4-Emo Kids
Guys just psychologically respond different to a girl dying than a guy dying. When their friend dies they get fucking pissed and want to murder the enemy. When a girl dies they get depressed. Its 10 times worse when they are cleaning up the body parts of some person they wanted to fuck. That shit will make any bad-ass killer emo as fuck

5-Physiology/Mental state
Guys can lift more and push harder. Its genetics. There are totally exceptions. I'm sure there are tons of bad ass girls out there that could kick my ass but in general- anatomy is a fucking thing. Set aside physical limitations and emotionally women just have more needs. Low maintenance is a total necessity to be a soldier and some needs just can't be addressed.

So can a girl function in a combat role? Sure. But her being a girl will increase logistical obligations, cause the enemy to kill more of ours, cause more issues with fellow soldiers if she dies, distract from mission objectives, and require a girl thats capable of throwing as much weight on her back as any guy next to her while squatting down and shitting in a bottle next to a bunch of guys. Even if she was the perfect bad-ass because guys are flawed integrating women into combat roles only hurts productivity, cost, and moral. Objectively it will also have an impact on effectiveness in multiple ways even if those factors are ignored.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Explain why there a lot of woman who are a veteran sniper of soviet union during world war 2 please v)x.o)^?!?!?

[yzb25]

Oh my god Helz. You're slowly turning into the right-leaning conservative middle-aged man, from the left-leaning liberal you seem to be. This is a beautiful transformation to watch live. Or you're just drunk.

Either way, share your opinions more pls XD

I dunno. I'd want to know what kind of women want to join the military - and front-line-no-fucking-around-ish military. All the people I've ever known have dip-shit reasons, so I struggle to sympathize with people who complain about not being able to join.

Unlike many other things, most of the people protesting and demanding to let group X join a death-squad have no actual interest in joining the death-squad themselves. They're so fixated on the idea of equality of opportunity that they don't even know any individuals they're giving the opportunity to, or care about the specific opportunity they're giving LOL.

If it turned out they had some deep-ass reasons and their lives were being held back by not joining, it would be a different matter. Either way, often women get specifically lower requirements to get into some army positions, which feels condescending and ridiculous, regardless of what women in general are capable of.

Anyway, I don't think more cubicals and making a few bunkers women-only would be the end of the world logistically. And your psychology theories need more attention - I'd wanna know if that actually holds for the men after they've been doing war for years, because I suspect they'd get quickly desensitized to any "buffalo" crap. Weird, isolated cases of islamic radicals being invigorated because they find out they're fighting women are still only weird, isolated cases.

Overall, neither position feels worth taking, at this present time.

[yzb25]

Oops I assumed this was in CJ. Please excuse my contribution to this inevitably toxic discussion heheh.

[Cryptonic]

Everything listed here is men's fault

[Yukitaka Oni]

Everything listed here is men's fault

Triggered

[Bunny]

gosh this is highly sexist thinking.. all dem assumptions.

[Mateo]

gosh this is highly sexist thinking.. all dem assumptions.

You know how the saying goes

"When you assume, you cause a mislynch and fuck over town"

Or something like that

[Yukitaka Oni]

gosh this is highly sexist thinking.. all dem assumptions.

Triggered v(o.o(<

[SuperJack]

Why risk the women? Let the men die, we all know the
World would be a better place with less men and more women. =)

[Bunny]

Why risk the women? Let the men die, we all know the
World would be a better place with less men and more women. =)

thats also sexist thinking though. why not risk the women just as much as the men? I have met an equal amount of shitty men and women as well as amazing men and women!

[Yukitaka Oni]

Why risk the women? Let the men die, we all know the
World would be a better place with less men and more women. =)

thats also sexist thinking though. why not risk the women just as much as the men? I have met an equal amount of shitty men and women as well as amazing men and women!

Less man = more Harem = man's dream

[SuperJack]

thats also sexist thinking though. why not risk the women just as much as the men? I have met an equal amount of shitty men and women as well as amazing men and women!

Yah I know.

Why not merge both threads and it be about the Right of Transgenders on the front lines.

[yzb25]

Yah I know.

Why not merge both threads and it be about the Right of Transgenders on the front lines.

Yes. Make it happen mods.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Wtf are you waiting for?!?!?
Shia-labeouf-Just-do-it-Death-sound-Replacer..jpg

[AnassRhamur]

1. Women have panic attacks and are emotionally unstable. We need calm collected soldiers
-related note women can't control their emotions so they'll be flirting with the other males, causing an unnecessary distraction.
2. I don't want to be distracted by a mom breastfeeding. My field of view cannot be blocked
3. Their period attracts bears. i don't want to have to shoot at towelheads AND bears
4. If there's a really rich famous person... the women will let them grab them by the pussy and it'll look bad for our military. We'd be a laughing stock
5. The only women that are interested in the military are lesbians and all lesbians hate men and are feminists. I don't want THAT big of a hostile work environment
6. I don't want to have to look at an eye sore. I imagine its going to be hard for the ugly ones to put on make up everyday
7. Since women don't know anything about engineering/modern technology in the case of a gun jam, a man would have to go help her fix it

Im not sexist so ill add a pro, just to show im not biased
1. they can make your MRE for you

[Yukitaka Oni]

1. Women have panic attacks and are emotionally unstable. We need calm collected soldiers
-related note women can't control their emotions so they'll be flirting with the other males, causing an unnecessary distraction.
2. I don't want to be distracted by a mom breastfeeding. My field of view cannot be blocked
3. Their period attracts bears. i don't want to have to shoot at towelheads AND bears
4. If there's a really rich famous person... the women will let them grab them by the pussy and it'll look bad for our military. We'd be a laughing stock
5. The only women that are interested in the military are lesbians and all lesbians hate men and are feminists. I don't want THAT big of a hostile work environment
6. I don't want to have to look at an eye sore. I imagine its going to be hard for the ugly ones to put on make up everyday
7. Since women don't know anything about engineering/modern technology in the case of a gun jam, a man would have to go help her fix it

Im not sexist so ill add a pro, just to show im not biased
1. they can make your MRE for you

Explain the female ninja exist in almost every Asia country please ( damn they try to be sexy at day and kill ya at night on the bed.....not sure if worth it tho.....)
-combat role: Ninja (does it count?-Yes)

[AnassRhamur]

Explain the female ninja exist in almost every Asia country please ( damn they try to be sexy at day and kill ya at night on the bed.....not sure if worth it tho.....)
-combat role: Ninja (does it count?-Yes)

all asian men are cucks and need to hide behind their somehow less scrawny women.

[Yukitaka Oni]

all asian men are cucks and need to hide behind their somehow less scrawny women.

Claim all asian men are cucks
Claim not biased
-> mfw (my feel when)
10b9bc1d3d9f5e585b613c0e266084cecb92c103e084e1daea0b3dccaa18f328.jpg

[Yukitaka Oni]

Claim all asian men are cucks
Claim not biased
-> mfw (my feel when)
10b9bc1d3d9f5e585b613c0e266084cecb92c103e084e1daea0b3dccaa18f328.jpg

Eh.....so...what's next?!?!? All asian can do math or something?!?!?

[Mateo]

1. Women have panic attacks and are emotionally unstable. We need calm collected soldiers
-related note women can't control their emotions so they'll be flirting with the other males, causing an unnecessary distraction.
2. I don't want to be distracted by a mom breastfeeding. My field of view cannot be blocked
3. Their period attracts bears. i don't want to have to shoot at towelheads AND bears
4. If there's a really rich famous person... the women will let them grab them by the pussy and it'll look bad for our military. We'd be a laughing stock
5. The only women that are interested in the military are lesbians and all lesbians hate men and are feminists. I don't want THAT big of a hostile work environment
6. I don't want to have to look at an eye sore. I imagine its going to be hard for the ugly ones to put on make up everyday
7. Since women don't know anything about engineering/modern technology in the case of a gun jam, a man would have to go help her fix it

Im not sexist so ill add a pro, just to show im not biased
1. they can make your MRE for you

D-

plz do some research and try again

[Yukitaka Oni]

D-

plz do some research and try again

Agree

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Eh.....so...what's next?!?!? All asian can do math or something?!?!?

all asians can do math... its science.

[SuperJack]

all asians can do math... its science.

<3

[Yukitaka Oni]

all asians can do math... its science.

So I'm a communist Asian and I am a shame to exist on this planet because I can't do math 12?
#Yukilivematter

[Helz]

Lol. This was totally a drunk post. It really came from a conversation I had with a retired Colonel in a cigar shop a few weeks ago. He totally converted me to this side of this issue with pretty solid objective points.

But I honestly do think its a bad idea to allow women into combat roles for these reasons. Not because women can't do it but because men can't handle it.

[Mateo]

But I honestly do think its a bad idea to allow women into combat roles for these reasons. Not because women can't do it but because men can't handle it.

kinda like how women shouldnt dress provocatively because men cant handle it?

wtf is up with this victim blaming?

[Helz]

kinda like how women shouldnt dress provocatively because men cant handle it?

wtf is up with this victim blaming? do they teach that in boot camp or were u already fucked in the head?

Cute bait Mateo. Classy as ever : )

[Mateo]

Cute bait Mateo. Classy as ever : )

O NO! u figured me out :'(

i mean, it couldnt possibly be that the systemic marginalization of the suffering of an entire group by someone that has never experienced said suffering is disgusting to me. noooo, i'm just tryin to get a rise out of you

get over yourself. and dont play, if u werent triggered u wouldnt have run to staff chat like a hypersensitive bitch trying to get me banned again

[Helz]

O NO! u figured me out :'(

i mean, it couldnt possibly be that the systemic marginalization of the suffering of an entire group by someone that has never experienced said suffering is disgusting to me. noooo, i'm just tryin to get a rise out of you

get over yourself. and dont play, if u werent triggered u wouldnt have run to staff chat like a hypersensitive bitch trying to get me banned again

I actually didn't. I just hit the report button and said something like "Are we really going to deal with this guy again? He only comes here to be toxic and cause drama. Pretend I am butt hurt or something and ban him."
What I asked in staff chat was if we had some kind of mute function to where I wouldn't have to read your posts. This particular post didn't bother me at all. I just don't like how you are allowed to come around so you can cause drama. I kinda see you like I see a clown. People keep you around because you give them something to laugh at. If it really bothered me I would probably just hit up rev about it.

You are just doing the same thing you always do. Taking any position you can to try to get a rise out of people. I do feel bad for you though and I hope someday you can find a way to interact in a positive way. Im seriously not saying that to talk shit. I would just rather you not learn that while shitting all over this community.

[Lysergic]

If we're incapable of having a civil debate, we probably shouldn't have a debate section.

I'd rather not lock this, so let's play nice.

[Mateo]

I actually didn't. I just hit the report button and said something like "Are we really going to deal with this guy again? He only comes here to be toxic and cause drama. Pretend I am butt hurt or something and ban him."
What I asked in staff chat was if we had some kind of mute function to where I wouldn't have to read your posts. This particular post didn't bother me at all. I just don't like how you are allowed to come around so you can cause drama. I kinda see you like I see a clown. People keep you around because you give them something to laugh at. If it really bothered me I would probably just hit up rev about it.

You are just doing the same thing you always do. Taking any position you can to try to get a rise out of people. I do feel bad for you though and I hope someday you can find a way to interact in a positive way. Im seriously not saying that to talk shit. I would just rather you not learn that while shitting all over this community.

so when ur shitting all over the forum with ur sexist and homophobic/transphobic comments its all kosher, but when i call out ur ignorance u try to get me banned. u can try to split hairs and straw man all u want, but if u werent butthurt u wouldnt have reported.

im sorry u were offended, i really thought someone from the military would be strong enough to handle criticism. maybe u should mute me, i would hate for my posts to violate ur safe space

[Lysergic]

To drive this home, if I have to hand out a Personal Attacks infraction for a post in this thread, it will be a permanent infraction (5 infraction points - 10 is a ban).

[Klingoncelt]

Just because I feel like being a devils advocate here is a position I recently flipped on with reasoning.

1-Logistics
Unless you go star-ship troopers style (which creates MASSIVE legal liability issues for any claimed problem) you have to double up on a lot of things. You need double the sleeping quarters, toilets, showers and a significant increase in medical care in order to accommodate women into any pediment base.

2-Buffalo
Just like buffalo males generally circle and protect females when danger comes around. I cant say what it was off the top of my head but this has been tested over and over and generally speaking guys become more interested in keeping the females in their unit alive than in accomplishing their mission

3-Biggots
I think it was the Scandinavian army that was so low on troops they brought women in. One issue they had was that they were fighting traditional muslims and those guys would rather fight to the death than surrender to a woman. This meant that instead of an enemy giving up they would just keep fighting until their last breath which resulted in more casualties.

4-Emo Kids
Guys just psychologically respond different to a girl dying than a guy dying. When their friend dies they get fucking pissed and want to murder the enemy. When a girl dies they get depressed. Its 10 times worse when they are cleaning up the body parts of some person they wanted to fuck. That shit will make any bad-ass killer emo as fuck

5-Physiology/Mental state
Guys can lift more and push harder. Its genetics. There are totally exceptions. I'm sure there are tons of bad ass girls out there that could kick my ass but in general- anatomy is a fucking thing. Set aside physical limitations and emotionally women just have more needs. Low maintenance is a total necessity to be a soldier and some needs just can't be addressed.

So can a girl function in a combat role? Sure. But her being a girl will increase logistical obligations, cause the enemy to kill more of ours, cause more issues with fellow soldiers if she dies, distract from mission objectives, and require a girl thats capable of throwing as much weight on her back as any guy next to her while squatting down and shitting in a bottle next to a bunch of guys. Even if she was the perfect bad-ass because guys are flawed integrating women into combat roles only hurts productivity, cost, and moral. Objectively it will also have an impact on effectiveness in multiple ways even if those factors are ignored.

Your post indicates that men are emotionally unable to handle the rigors of combat.

Maybe you tender creatures should stay home and bake cookies while trying to imagine how women think and feel.

Fucking bigot.

[Helz]

so when ur shitting all over the forum with ur sexist and homophobic/transphobic comments its all kosher, but when i call out ur ignorance u try to get me banned. u can try to split hairs and straw man all u want, but if u werent butthurt u wouldnt have reported.

im sorry u were offended, i really thought someone from the military would be strong enough to handle criticism. maybe u should mute me, i would hate for my posts to violate ur safe space

The difference here is that I am saying things I actually believe. You are just hunting for ways to trigger people in order to get a reaction. Its what you have done for years. I am butthurt that you are back and up to your same old game. I would be lieing if I said a part of me did not just want to take unilateral action and ban you but that kind of thing would be against my principals.

My response was me saying that the basis for my argument was indeed mens reaction to things as opposed to any issue with women. It was meeting common ground with the people in the community and built on some basic principals
1- The objective of a combat force is to win a war at minimal cost
2- Because some cultures see women as inferior they would rather die than surrender - this increases cost
3- Studies have shown mixed sex units are less goal orientated and more focused on self preservation - this decreases a units ability to win a war
4- Mixed units have more trouble dealing with losses - this decreases a units ability to win a war
5- It less viable to support mixed units in forward operating bases - this increases cost
6- Genetics just make men better at lifting heavy shit and have higher needs on average

So 6 was my only really sexist comment. Everything else was just an objective evaluation of a units ability. The push for equal rights is political. Politics and Tactics do not mix well. My argument was that because of these factors women should not be allowed to serve in combat. It shows a real belief with reasoning. Then afterwards I admit it was a drunk post and point out that the reasoning's core function was because men can't handle mixed units. This was me agreeing with the climate of chat and underscoring it.

Then you popped in saying

kinda like how women shouldnt dress provocatively because men cant handle it?

wtf is up with this victim blaming? do they teach that in boot camp or were u already fucked in the head?

You edited your post with some victim blaming stuff to make it look a little better but you cant really hide something once its already reported or quoted. The reason you edited it was to not look so bad. To make it look like you actually had some real belief here but it was just cutting to character assassination to stir the pot. You can back-peddle all you want but I really do think you could care less about this conversation. If you did you wouldn't keep jumping to the whole 'You are fucked in the head' and consistent attacks on the fact I served. You think its a triggering subject and you want to get a rise so you are hitting on it.

This kinda stuff is straight up why I don't like being around you. Be grateful some staff care more about watching drama unfold than actually moderating. If you want to have a real conversation on the subject then I am game if you cut out all your attempts at baiting for a reaction.

[Helz]

Your post indicates that men are emotionally unable to handle the rigors of combat.

Maybe you tender creatures should stay home and bake cookies while trying to imagine how women think and feel.

Fucking bigot.

Tell me why I am a bigot. Lets talk about the points I made instead of just calling names. Thats the point of this thread. We are capable of holding discussions on controversial issues if people just approach them objectively. Not long ago I was arguing for women to be allowed to serve and someone convinced me otherwise. So why not convince me I am wrong now?

[Klingoncelt]

You're deciding for everyone that women are not only different but physically inferior and in need of your protection.

Because you're a fucking bigot.

[Helz]

You're deciding for everyone that women are not only different but physically inferior and in need of your protection.

Because you're a fucking bigot.

I do believe that women on average are less capable of carrying heavy shit for long periods of time. You are just feigning ignorance if you want to say otherwise.
I never said they are in need of my protection. I just said that is how men react in combat situations. That is just misrepresenting my point.

Please explain to me how men are not physically more well suited for carrying heavy shit on average.

[Gyrlander]

I just wanted to congrat Helz for gaining massive red rep. I understand how you feel.

[Orpz]

Ignoring the emotional benefits for a second, are these not all offset by the fact that you're tapping into another 50% of the country's population for human resources?

[Cryptonic]

While we're on the subject, I also think that girls should dress more appropriately in school or be removed from class. Otherwise, boys will get distracted from their school work.
Girls should also dress more wholesome if they don't want to get raped.

[XDarkDragonDX]

While we're on the subject, I also think that girls should dress more appropriately in school or be removed from class. Otherwise, boys will get distracted from their school work.
Girls should also dress more wholesome if they don't want to get raped.

DD likes this post.

[Firebringer]

While we're on the subject, I also think that girls should dress more appropriately in school or be removed from class. Otherwise, boys will get distracted from their school work.
Girls should also dress more wholesome if they don't want to get raped.

I mean they shouldn't have to dress wholesome and should be allowed to dress the way they want, but it's about minimize risk and exposure for themselves....I don't like how people present that as a bad idea when it's not intended to blame the victim. It's preventive action to help prevent future victims. If I get in a car and drive and decide that I don't like wearing a seat belt, and someone else hits me. You would be asking why I didn't take preventive measure to put on a seat belt.

[Cryptonic]

I mean they shouldn't have to dress wholesome and should be allowed to dress the way they want, but it's about minimize risk and exposure for themselves....I don't like how people present that as a bad idea when it's not intended to blame the victim. It's preventive action to help prevent future victims. If I get in a car and drive and decide that I don't like wearing a seat belt, and someone else hits me. You would be asking why I didn't take preventive measure to put on a seat belt.

So, you're saying that after a woman gets raped, she should blame herself for it happening because she could've taken preventative measures? Yes, that is a very healthy way of thinking for a victim of a physical assault.

True rape is 100% the perpetrators's fault. Women should not have to change their life style to prevent Men from being pieces of shit. Men just shouldn't be pieces of shit.

[SuperJack]

I agree. But if I leave my front door open to my house, with my vaubles on show.
I will get robbed eventually.
I shouldn't have to lock my door, I shouldn't have to hide my valuables. But their are bad people out their that are just looking for the opportunity. It's is not the victims fault, it's the bad people who commit the crime, but like in other causes you take measures to deter the criminals.

[Firebringer]

I agree. But if I leave my front door open to my house, with my vaubles on show.
I will get robbed eventually.
I shouldn't have to lock my door, I shouldn't have to hide my valuables. But their are bad people out their that are just looking for the opportunity. It's is not the victims fault, it's the bad people who commit the crime, but like in other causes you take measures to deter the criminals.

This 100%

You don't blame a burglar victim by saying they should have locked their doors or had better security to prevent them from becoming victims. You do say they could have lowered the chances by taking action but it's still not their fault.

[Helz]

I know were in a society that wants to tell everyone they are special snowflakes and can do anything. Where just playing any sport means you will get some trophy no matter how bad you suck. But we are talking about life and death. Decisions should not be made just because some sect feels left out. The military discriminates on combat roles in a hell of a lot of other ways. Flat feet? Color blind? Where do you draw the line? How far should we just say 'fuck it, you made an effort so you are in' while people will likely die because of those decisions.
I keep seeing everyone draw the conversation away from the basic tactical reasons I stated and push it in the direction of blaming a victim. I would be very surprised if anyone actually believes its a woman's fault for getting raped. Orpz made a solid point on tapping into a massive population. Last night in skype someone else made a great point that segregated units eliminates a large portion of those issues. You could even point out that 8 or 10 other nations currently use women in select combat roles.

[Cryptonic]

I know were in a society that wants to tell everyone they are special snowflakes and can do anything. Where just playing any sport means you will get some trophy no matter how bad you suck. But we are talking about life and death. Decisions should not be made just because some sect feels left out. The military discriminates on combat roles in a hell of a lot of other ways. Flat feet? Color blind? Where do you draw the line? How far should we just say 'fuck it, you made an effort so you are in' while people will likely die because of those decisions.
I keep seeing everyone draw the conversation away from the basic tactical reasons I stated and push it in the direction of blaming a victim. I would be very surprised if anyone actually believes its a woman's fault for getting raped. Orpz made a solid point on tapping into a massive population. Last night in skype someone else made a great point that segregated units eliminates a large portion of those issues. You could even point out that 8 or 10 other nations currently use women in select combat roles.

Yes, you stated basic tactical reasons which are all the fault of men, and then you use it to restrict women. That's the issue people are having with your thread.
The only case that you're making that is the fault of women is that they have periods and can't lift as much weight.

[Cryptonic]

Also, why can't you just completely separate the two if it's so much of an issue?
Just have battalions of men and battalions of women. Problem solved.

[Helz]

Yes, you stated basic tactical reasons which are all the fault of men, and then you use it to restrict women. That's the issue people are having with your thread.
The only case that you're making that is the fault of women is that they have periods and can't lift as much weight.

Also, why can't you just completely separate the two if it's so much of an issue?
Just have battalions of men and battalions of women. Problem solved.

Because its impractical to separate the units. Then when making a decision on how to move your troops you have to sit down and consider "Well I need to keep these two units separate or accept X issues." Even without that it applies logistical stress that diverts assets and increases cost. Why are you not pissed off that people with flat feet can't go infantry? Its not their fault they wont be able to carry heavy shit for long distances because they were born that way. How are they any different and what about the other countless factors that prevent people from serving in a combat role?
The other issue is that we can not control who we are fighting. Straight up most of our wars right now are against Muslims. Most Muslim extremists see women as inferior and would rather die than surrender to one. This means enemies who will fight to the death instead of surrendering which means more of our people die killing them.

Just take a pragmatic approach to the situation and you will understand what I am saying. Keep looking at it from an idealist perspective and we wont find any common ground. I do understand that its basically just not fair but It is much more unfair for someone who dies because of one of these issues than for someone that was denied the opportunity to serve in a specific capacity. Even from a utilitarian perspective this is ethnically required. Its not like I am saying "Women are inferior as fuck and should not serve" yet that's how people seem to be twisting it.

Totally remove 'sex' from the issue and there is no way in hell anyone would support the action:
If using group A can get the job done
And using group B has a higher cost and higher chance of casualties
Should we use group B?

I don't care if their black, white, male, female, smart, stupid, disabled, gay straight ect.. When lives are on the line tactical value supersedes some sense of whats fair. This is why I hold this view.