S-FM 173 The Colder War

[MattZed]

If you can't handle my language then blame Suntax. Or use translation nub v)x.o)>!

Nyet.

[Mikecall]

MikeZed, what's taking you so long to join the Yuki train?

The train to destruction ;), you know me Mattcall,

[MattZed]

The train to destruction ;), you know me Mattcall,

The later you bus your partner, the more suspicious it is.

[DarknessB]

Comrade, you may not remember Russian can be used this game.

Oh, I remember, Comrade Zed -- I was referring to the lack of an attempt to justify why we shouldn't lynch, the supposed communist Yuki. I think the capitalists got to him...

[Yukitaka Oni]

Anyone who defile me will be send to Gulag! Even if you are town or journalists that about to become the puppet of the dog v)x.o)>!
Order 227- no retreat! No surrender! Coward will be shot v)x.o)>!!!!

[DarknessB]

For mother Russia v)x.o)^ this is my game! Your capitalist dog will not die alone v)x.o)^!!!!!

-vote Calix

Die with me you dog!!!!! v)x.o)>!!!! Cyka!!!! Blyat!!!!

Wait, wait wait -- SuperJack, he speaks good English, so he should lead the Town?

[Mikecall]

Anyone who defile me will be send to Gulag! Even if you are town or journalists that about to become the puppet of the dog v)x.o)>!
Order 227- no retreat! No surrender! Coward will be shot v)x.o)>!!!!

Are you sure it is not order 66? ;).

[DarknessB]

Anyone who defile me will be send to Gulag! Even if you are town or journalists that about to become the puppet of the dog v)x.o)>!
Order 227- no retreat! No surrender! Coward will be shot v)x.o)>!!!!

LOL -- this sounds like Firebringer in Camp Mafia. I am waiting for the "YOU CAN'T LYNCH ME -- I AM TOWN!" right before the hammer.

[Sen]

The later you bus your partner, the more suspicious it is.

Do you actually think Oni is scum?

[Mikecall]

The later you bus your partner, the more suspicious it is.

Then place me in the most suspicious list, I feel like the Calix train has my attention.

[MattZed]

Do you actually think Oni is scum?

Absolutely.

[DarknessB]

I think it was rather suspicious that MattZed started the Yuki train (and I joined very quickly), but Yuki instead of voting MattZed in retaliation / suspicion, votes Calix, which just happens to be the other train going on. Just seems like Yuki is after survival vs. finding the scum. Makes me more suspicious.

[Mikecall]

I think it was rather suspicious that MattZed started the Yuki train (and I joined very quickly), but Yuki instead of voting MattZed in retaliation / suspicion, votes Calix, which just happens to be the other train going on. Just seems like Yuki is after survival vs. finding the scum. Makes me more suspicious.

It does seem suspicious, why join the train that I started on Calix when Yuki had other targets she could of went for?

[Mikecall]

It does seem suspicious, why join the train that I started on Calix when Yuki had other targets she could of went for?

Or should I say the town leader of this town, Firebringer

[DarknessB]

It does seem suspicious, why join the train that I started on Calix when Yuki had other targets she could of went for?

Yup, more logical targets would have been either MattZed (starting the train) or me (moving the train along) -- i.e. if Yuki were Town, he'd be suspicious of those who were starting to vote him up. Instead, he went for the lower hanging fruit in Calix who already had 2 votes on her and who joined the Yuki train a little later on.

[DarknessB]

It does seem suspicious, why join the train that I started on Calix when Yuki had other targets she could of went for?

LOL, it almost hurts you to say that I can see. Similar to how I'm astonished that I agree with MattZed on a Day 1 vote.

[DarknessB]

Last post cited the wrong quote. Was actually going for:

Or should I say the town leader of this town, Firebringer

LOL, it almost hurts you to say that I can see. Similar to how I'm astonished that I agree with MattZed on a Day 1 vote.

[DarknessB]

Preserving the vote count for record-keeping purposes, as it looks like the initial flurry is over:

Calix (3 [L-4]):
Firebringer, Mikecall, Yukitaka Oni

Yukitaka Oni (4 [L-3]):
MattZed, DarknessB, Sen, Calix

[Mikecall]

Yup, more logical targets would have been either MattZed (starting the train) or me (moving the train along) -- i.e. if Yuki were Town, he'd be suspicious of those who were starting to vote him up. Instead, he went for the lower hanging fruit in Calix who already had 2 votes on her and who joined the Yuki train a little later on.

Its a possible evaluation, but if i was in that suituation, I would of went on someone who would of been the most suspicious in doing the train overall, its worth considering.

But its reminds me of a question,

If you guys had to choose someone who you would of voted, who would it be and why do you want to proceed with that vote?

For you Darkness and Mattcall, what made you want to lynch Yuki in the first place?

For Yuki, Why do you want to join the train that Myself and Firebringer used a vote on? Your play at the moment tells me you might be a neutral possibility.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Listen here all the useless v)x.o)>! This is Soviet Russia! Everything is opposite!
- Firebringer: Sheriff/Jailor is Consligere/Kidnapper confirmed Mafia in here v)x.o)>! A real dog!
- SuperJack: Real England! Real James Bourne! 007 scum dog confirmed v(x.o(<!
- Calix: Cyka v)x.o)>! Blyat!
- DarknessB: Journalists who want to become a puppet of the dog! Off to Siberia ! Say hello to Stalin for me v)x.o)>!
- The rest who voted me: Traitors v)x.o)>! May the NKVD have mercy on your soul!

[Yukitaka Oni]

Or should I say the town leader of this town, Firebringer

In Soviet Russia, Firebringer is Mafia confirmed v(x.o(<!

[DarknessB]

Yuki plays opaquely and does not contribute to Town discussion whatsoever -- this has been true in all of his past games. He's either going to be an empty slot that we give a pass to throughout the entire game, or we policy lynch him now. We tried the former in Camp Mafia and Yuki (later replaced by ika) turned out to be the last scum who won the game for the Mafia. I would prefer that we not make that mistake again, especially as several other logged games have suggested that Yuki is not going to contribute if he's left alive. Also, from a host meta perspective, given Yuki is Russian, I could see Suntax giving him an ironic role here if he handpicked (capitalist much?).

Further, Yuki's response to being voted up (some Russian which it wasn't clear was any sort of a defense) and impulsively jumping onto the other train does not make me any less suspicious of his motivations either, as I've said before. Seemed to be far more about survival and bolstering another train vs. logical suspicion toward MattZed or myself, which he should have if he is Town. Doesn't seem to be any there so far...

[Calix]

Yup, more logical targets would have been either MattZed (starting the train) or me (moving the train along) -- i.e. if Yuki were Town, he'd be suspicious of those who were starting to vote him up. Instead, he went for the lower hanging fruit in Calix who already had 2 votes on her and who joined the Yuki train a little later on.

Low-hanging fruit, lol

While the conversation about Yukitaka is useful, I still want to proceed with my generic setup spec to have two conversations going on at once. I'll only ask two so I don't detract from the conversation too much.

Do you think the Witch should reveal themselves?

Considering the changes made to mafia, do you agree or disagree that the optimal move for mafia is to use their heat actions on Night 1?

[DarknessB]

Listen here all the useless v)x.o)>! This is Soviet Russia! Everything is opposite!
- Firebringer: Sheriff/Jailor is Consligere/Kidnapper confirmed Mafia in here v)x.o)>! A real dog!
- SuperJack: Real England! Real James Bourne! 007 scum dog confirmed v(x.o(<!
- Calix: Cyka v)x.o)>! Blyat!
- DarknessB: Journalists who want to become a puppet of the dog! Off to Siberia ! Say hello to Stalin for me v)x.o)>!
- The rest who voted me: Traitors v)x.o)>! May the NKVD have mercy on your soul!

LOL, so basically everyone is scum? I love it!

[Yukitaka Oni]

Its a possible evaluation, but if i was in that suituation, I would of went on someone who would of been the most suspicious in doing the train overall, its worth considering.

But its reminds me of a question,

If you guys had to choose someone who you would of voted, who would it be and why do you want to proceed with that vote?

For you Darkness and Mattcall, what made you want to lynch Yuki in the first place?

For Yuki, Why do you want to join the train that Myself and Firebringer used a vote on? Your play at the moment tells me you might be a neutral possibility.

Lynch 4 people who vote me when day 2 begin, say your prayer traitor. Cheka will put you out of misery....

[Sen]

Do you think the Witch should reveal themselves?

Considering the changes made to mafia, do you agree or disagree that the optimal move for mafia is to use their heat actions on Night 1?

This shit again? Remind me why is it in our interest to give the scum a plan for the night.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Yuki plays opaquely and does not contribute to Town discussion whatsoever -- this has been true in all of his past games. He's either going to be an empty slot that we give a pass to throughout the entire game, or we policy lynch him now. We tried the former in Camp Mafia and Yuki (later replaced by ika) turned out to be the last scum who won the game for the Mafia. I would prefer that we not make that mistake again, especially as several other logged games have suggested that Yuki is not going to contribute if he's left alive. Also, from a host meta perspective, given Yuki is Russian, I could see Suntax giving him an ironic role here if he handpicked (capitalist much?).

Further, Yuki's response to being voted up (some Russian which it wasn't clear was any sort of a defense) and impulsively jumping onto the other train does not make me any less suspicious of his motivations either, as I've said before. Seemed to be far more about survival and bolstering another train vs. logical suspicion toward MattZed or myself, which he should have if he is Town. Doesn't seem to be any there so far...

Same as Mafia camp. You die with me today!

-vote DarknessB

[DarknessB]

This shit again? Remind me why is it in our interest to give the scum a plan for the night.

Because they're going to be down a player when Yuki gets lynched and we feel sorry for them?

[Calix]

Yuki plays opaquely and does not contribute to Town discussion whatsoever -- this has been true in all of his past games. He's either going to be an empty slot that we give a pass to throughout the entire game, or we policy lynch him now. We tried the former in Camp Mafia and Yuki (later replaced by ika) turned out to be the last scum who won the game for the Mafia. I would prefer that we not make that mistake again, especially as several other logged games have suggested that Yuki is not going to contribute if he's left alive. Also, from a host meta perspective, given Yuki is Russian, I could see Suntax giving him an ironic role here if he handpicked (capitalist much?).

Further, Yuki's response to being voted up (some Russian which it wasn't clear was any sort of a defense) and impulsively jumping onto the other train does not make me any less suspicious of his motivations either, as I've said before. Seemed to be far more about survival and bolstering another train vs. logical suspicion toward MattZed or myself, which he should have if he is Town. Doesn't seem to be any there so far...

I feel like Suntax was aware of the negative attitudes towards Yukitaka and possibly gave them a role that would fit in with that...but that's just a fleeting thought.

[Yukitaka Oni]

LOL, so basically everyone is scum? I love it!

Love to butcher you first, Cyka v)x.o)>!

[DarknessB]

Same as Mafia camp. You die with me today!

-vote DarknessB

LOL, I'm glad Yuki is following my roadmap on how to act less suspiciously and pick a less obvious target than Calix. Can you call me Papa now?

[Calix]

This shit again? Remind me why is it in our interest to give the scum a plan for the night.

Yes, it's a thing with me.

Give them a suboptimal strategy. Give an answer that is deliberately scummy to elicit reactions. Take the opportunity to do something with the questions or ignore them.

Damn, you act like I expect you to take them at face value.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Everyone chill the Blyat out! I'm solo with DarknessB. Prepare your popcorn and stay out of this v)x.o)>!

[DarknessB]

Anyway guys -- in all seriousness, this is why we have to policy lynch Yuki. This isn't going to get any easier to understand as the game progresses. Either Yuki is going to be a very weak member of the Town (zero contribution) or a very strong member of the scum team (because no one can understand him / call him out on stuff). I would far rather lose a weak Townie (if we're somehow wrong about Yuki) vs. allow a null read scum to survive for the rest of the game because no one is going to ever able to make a case on him based on his comments (good luck analyzing them). Now or never IMO.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Sen, Calix, Mattzed. Get the Blyat out of my way or I send you to Gulag train tomorrow! v)x.o)>!

[DarknessB]

Sen, Calix, Mattzed. Get the Blyat out of my way or I send you to Gulag train tomorrow! v)x.o)>!

LOL, and now he's threatening a bunch of other players. This is very entertaining at the very least?

[Yukitaka Oni]

Anyway guys -- in all seriousness, this is why we have to policy lynch Yuki. This isn't going to get any easier to understand as the game progresses. Either Yuki is going to be a very weak member of the Town (zero contribution) or a very strong member of the scum team (because no one can understand him / call him out on stuff). I would far rather lose a weak Townie (if we're somehow wrong about Yuki) vs. allow a null read scum to survive for the rest of the game because no one is going to ever able to make a case on him based on his comments (good luck analyzing them). Now or never IMO.

You maybe the only one who counter me. But in this game. I AM BOSS v)O.O)>! GET IT Cyka?

[Mikecall]

Yukitaka, the one who contributes a ton to the town

[DarknessB]

You maybe the only one who counter me. But in this game. I AM BOSS v)O.O)>! GET IT Cyka?

We've already established that Firebringer is the Glorious Town Leader. That role has been claimed already. Try again.

[Calix]

Because they're going to be down a player when Yuki gets lynched and we feel sorry for them?

Why are you so sure that Yukitaka is mafia and not town/ neutral? The evidence from this game doesn't look promising for them, I agree with you there, but your level of confidence in Yukitaka's alignment is not reassuring either.

[DarknessB]

Why are you so sure that Yukitaka is mafia and not town/ neutral? The evidence from this game doesn't look promising for them, I agree with you there, but your level of confidence in Yukitaka's alignment is not reassuring either.

Check above -- I decision treed it out in terms of why we should lynch regardless. Short answer is Yuki is either going to be a useless Town (zero contribution) or scum who never gets called out (b/c his playstyle is completely opaque and nonsensical). Bigger risk to us is the scum who can never be lynched (if we don't do it now, no one will ever do it) vs. allowing a zero contribution Town to stay.

[Calix]

Anyway guys -- in all seriousness, this is why we have to policy lynch Yuki. This isn't going to get any easier to understand as the game progresses. Either Yuki is going to be a very weak member of the Town (zero contribution) or a very strong member of the scum team (because no one can understand him / call him out on stuff). I would far rather lose a weak Townie (if we're somehow wrong about Yuki) vs. allow a null read scum to survive for the rest of the game because no one is going to ever able to make a case on him based on his comments (good luck analyzing them). Now or never IMO.

Directed to this post.

I agree with the sentiment. I just don't want scum to bandwagon onto Yuki (even if Yuki is scum themselves, I think they would be extremely likely to be bussed before the scum go "I lynched Yuki, I can't be mafia" later on) and have the entirety of today revolve around a policy lynch.

Consider this, if Yuki is town, we will have wasted an entire day for little gain. In fact, it would be a setback if Yuki is town since the only information we would have is "these people like policy lynches" and "X, Y and Z are possible scum jumping on the chance to mislynch". Similar principle applies for Yuki being mafia - nobody is going to defend them (aside from Toadette, which isn't alignment-indicative for her) so we don't get any inside information on the strategy that scum are using this game.

[Calix]

Check above -- I decision treed it out in terms of why we should lynch regardless. Short answer is Yuki is either going to be a useless Town (zero contribution) or scum who never gets called out (b/c his playstyle is completely opaque and nonsensical). Bigger risk to us is the scum who can never be lynched (if we don't do it now, no one will ever do it) vs. allowing a zero contribution Town to stay.

I am also finding it hard to make any sort of read on your posts outside of NULL, seeing as you are just regurgitating thoughts that you have stated in post-game lobbies.

[DarknessB]

Directed to this post.

I agree with the sentiment. I just don't want scum to bandwagon onto Yuki (even if Yuki is scum themselves, I think they would be extremely likely to be bussed before the scum go "I lynched Yuki, I can't be mafia" later on) and have the entirety of today revolve around a policy lynch.

Consider this, if Yuki is town, we will have wasted an entire day for little gain. In fact, it would be a setback if Yuki is town since the only information we would have is "these people like policy lynches" and "X, Y and Z are possible scum jumping on the chance to mislynch". Similar principle applies for Yuki being mafia - nobody is going to defend them (aside from Toadette, which isn't alignment-indicative for her) so we don't get any inside information on the strategy that scum are using this game.

Keep in mind, the day just started -- I'm fine with discussing the setup, seeing if there are any other suspicious players who should be interrogated, giving our reads on each other, etc. I'm not saying the policy lynch is the absolute best decision for us, but it's certainly up there right now. We can do both -- make good use of the day and policy lynch, if no other suitable player emerges as suspicious.

[MattZed]

Do you think the Witch should reveal themselves?

Considering the changes made to mafia, do you agree or disagree that the optimal move for mafia is to use their heat actions on Night 1?

I don't believe in coaching people who aren't necessarily of my own alignment

Significantly better question:
Which town roles, if any, should use their heat actions tonight?

Given that a mislynch+2 town kills sends us into 5v3v1v1 tomorrow, is a no lynch a better idea?

[Sen]

Yes, it's a thing with me.

Give them a suboptimal strategy. Give an answer that is deliberately scummy to elicit reactions. Take the opportunity to do something with the questions or ignore them.

Damn, you act like I expect you to take them at face value.

That's the thing; you do all sort of scummy stuff and then say that it was your WIFOMASTER 9000 plan all along -and then explain your plan when questioned, making it entirelly useless, and looking even scummier for doing so-, and that seems to be your town mindset -or at least it was last game-. I'll eventually get used to it, but in the meantime you'll see me bitching about how every single thing you do is scummy, and how you should be hanged for it.

---

Regarding Oni, I'm not voting because he's a zero contribution, but a negative one; a hindrance to the Town.
Policy lynches are shit; they're effectively a wasted chance of lynching scum. That said, the fact that they exist shows that sometimes, the shit option is the best play, if only to secure a better mid and late game.

[Sen]

Given that a mislynch+2 town kills sends us into 5v3v1v1 tomorrow, is a no lynch a better idea?

No-lynch is never a better idea. Are you scum, dude?

[DarknessB]

I am also finding it hard to make any sort of read on your posts outside of NULL, seeing as you are just regurgitating thoughts that you have stated in post-game lobbies.

We're only five pages into the game, mind you, and this is not Suicide Allowed, which ended on page 6. I would think it'd be hard to have a good reason on anyone, just yet. At this point, we're just feeling each other's playstyles out and trying to make some educated guesses about who is acting scummy. We need the rest of the playerbase to arrive as well to have a broader discussion. Right now, it's just you, me, and Mikecall chatting.

[MattZed]

No-lynch is never a better idea. Are you scum, dude?

Of course not. Given a choice between a potential critical lynch today and a critical lynch tomorrow, which do you prefer?

[Yukitaka Oni]

The only Reason DarknessB exist is to lynch me. Nothing else useful v)x.o)>!
That make DarknessB is always in my dog list v(x.o(<