M-FM XXVI The Frozen Throne Gamethread

[M-FM King Magni Bronzebeard]

Is that standard? Is the "random" a weighted random?

Its usually not random, the host might call it random, but its most likely 'hidden' towns. The host sometimes determine the roles beforehand.

[M-FM Mal'ganis]

Oops I forgot one thing. Plaguelands rambling on about Tailors as the reason for this result is odd. Unless I am reading the rolecard wrong, a tailor only changes a death flip so its presence accounting for Princess's result does not follow.

[M-FM Mal'ganis]

Its usually not random, the host might call it random, but its most likely 'hidden' towns. The host sometimes determine the roles beforehand.

I would imagine this is the case as pure random would likely nerf the Orange team because they have fewer players and no recruitment.

[M-FM Plaguelands]

Oops I forgot one thing. Plaguelands rambling on about Tailors as the reason for this result is odd. Unless I am reading the rolecard wrong, a tailor only changes a death flip so its presence accounting for Princess's result does not follow.

No, the tailor is the reason why a scum gambit to get a mislynch off is likely. Princess' result is non-existant in this scenario. Princess would be the scum Tailor dressing me as whatever scum killer she desires and if the lynch went through it'd flip me as scum even though I'm a footman. My last will would prevent this scenario from happening though. End result of my dying in any scenario thus will be: Princess will be the next lynch for tomorrow. It's conflicting to be honest. In every scenario Princess would be the lynch for D3 if I die today and if she won't be the D3 lynch then the reasons why she wouldn't be scum D3 would be the same reasons why I'm not scum today.

I just can't judge if the scum planning would be that lacking without this foresight or if it's really just night actions falsifying the result Princess got on me. Now if only Princess hadn't played like shit all day I'd be more inclined to believe that she's a truthful Detective but like this it's difficult even for me.

[M-FM Princess Calia Menethil]

No, the tailor is the reason why a scum gambit to get a mislynch off is likely. Princess' result is non-existant in this scenario. Princess would be the scum Tailor dressing me as whatever scum killer she desires and if the lynch went through it'd flip me as scum even though I'm a footman. My last will would prevent this scenario from happening though. End result of my dying in any scenario thus will be: Princess will be the next lynch for tomorrow. It's conflicting to be honest. In every scenario Princess would be the lynch for D3 if I die today and if she won't be the D3 lynch then the reasons why she wouldn't be scum D3 would be the same reasons why I'm not scum today.

I just can't judge if the scum planning would be that lacking without this foresight or if it's really just night actions falsifying the result Princess got on me. Now if only Princess hadn't played like shit all day I'd be more inclined to believe that she's a truthful Detective but like this it's difficult even for me.

He just explained why I can't be scum.

Right out of the horses mouth. Lynch this person that know's they're already dead.

[M-FM Princess Calia Menethil]

If you don't lynch him today, you're going to have to tomorrow, and we could have another lead tomorrow...

[M-FM Lordaeron]

Hello everybody. How's your tasty grain bread today?

Lewly lolly lol, these claimz



Post 133 by M-FM Princess Calia Menethil :

Detective here plaguelands visited Silvermoon and Silvermoon died. Doc on me

Claims being a Detective that someone has visited the dead target, however the setup clearly mentions that Scum has the advantage of Framer, Mafia Bus Driver and a Witch with powers and no notification.





Post 136 by M-FM Captain Luc Valonforth :

nothing happened to me last night other than host heckling me about my last will's....appropriateness

Is this a slip of the usefulness of your role? Bad, you tipped the Scum.





Post 138 by M-FM King Magni Bronzebeard :

I didn't have anything important that happened to me.

Nothing has happened to this person. Far better than the above "nothing" claim.





Post 172 by M-FM Northrend :

I'm more of a foot man myself.

If that's actually your role (I don't see it as a claim) then good job, you tipped the Scum with a delicate subtlety.





Post 188 by M-FM Plaguelands :

I am a footman.

He claims a Footman after being pressured and taken blame to by Calia.





Post 197 by M-FM Stratholme :

Hi there, I got attacked and healed this night whysoever someone had a huge interest in me it seems.

Claims of being attacked and healed.

I read the setup and there was a question of that someone being healed by Doctor being informed.
NO WAS THE ANSWER, I'll leave my vote here.

-vote M-FM Stratholme

[M-FM Plaguelands]

He just explained why I can't be scum.

Right out of the horses mouth. Lynch this person that know's they're already dead.

Nah, you can be scum, it's just two different scenarios where the likeliness is judged by every player. Where's your reading comprehension?

[M-FM Princess Calia Menethil]

Hello everybody. How's your tasty grain bread today?

-vote M-FM Stratholme

Come on, lets consolidate on one person. Stratholme with his obvious defense of Plague is clearly evil as well, but let's save him for tomorrow.

[M-FM Plaguelands]

If you don't lynch him today, you're going to have to tomorrow, and we could have another lead tomorrow...

It's the same way no matter who we lynch first. The other one will die the next day. If we're both town we'll have taken a great hit. If you're scum then they'll mislynch me and get you tomorrow. And if you get lynched and you flip scum then I'm cleared of this accusation. If I flip as scum then my last will gets posted and everyone knows that I'm a footman.

[M-FM Princess Calia Menethil]

Nah, you can be scum, it's just two different scenarios where the likeliness is judged by every player. Where's your reading comprehension?

Well if I am scum I have downs... though I would bet some people think I have downs.

[M-FM Plaguelands]

Hello everybody. How's your tasty grain bread today?
[...]
Post 197 by M-FM Stratholme :

Claims of being attacked and healed.

I read the setup and there was a question of that someone being healed by Doctor being informed.
NO WAS THE ANSWER, I'll leave my vote here.

-vote M-FM Stratholme

Hoh, good catch. That's pretty suspicious indeed.

[M-FM Lordaeron]

Come on, lets consolidate on one person. Stratholme with his obvious defense of Plague is clearly evil as well, but let's save him for tomorrow.

Unlike Plaguelands who could have been framed directly or indirectly, or that your own actions has become influenced in some way, Stratholme's slip is genuine and deserves a vote.

You do not claim being attacked and healed in a setup that does not have such a feedback.

[M-FM Princess Calia Menethil]

It's the same way no matter who we lynch first. The other one will die the next day. If we're both town we'll have taken a great hit. If you're scum then they'll mislynch me and get you tomorrow. And if you get lynched and you flip scum then I'm cleared of this accusation. If I flip as scum then my last will gets posted and everyone knows that I'm a footman.

No this is bullshit, if they lynch you today, and find out you're evil they can get another evil tomorrow. There is no other lead to get another evil today. the towns ONLY chance of lynching an evil from a lead today is to lynch YOU

[M-FM Mal'ganis]

Plaguelands, you are thinking about how much you like Princess and trying to fit a narrative to that. Your scenario, frankly assumes a lot of newbie scum. A seasoned scumplayer would know that they could just kill you at night and save the tailor gambit for when Princess had credibility. Scum 1 v 1 ing you makes zero logical sense right here.

She could use to be more likable but that doesn't change optimal play.

[M-FM Mal'ganis]

Unlike Plaguelands who could have been framed directly or indirectly, or that your own actions has become influenced in some way, Stratholme's slip is genuine and deserves a vote.

You do not claim being attacked and healed in a setup that does not have such a feedback.

That looks like a gambit you just spoiled or fell for to me.

[M-FM Lordaeron]

That looks like a gambit you just spoiled or fell for to me.

Town would not want unnecessary attention upon themselves if they were aware of the lacking feedback.

[M-FM Dalaran]

Post 197 by M-FM Stratholme :

Claims of being attacked and healed.

I read the setup and there was a question of that someone being healed by Doctor being informed.
NO WAS THE ANSWER, I'll leave my vote here.

-vote M-FM Stratholme

He is correct. Stratholme lied about his feedback strongly suggesting he is the immune mafia hit by opposing mafia. This makes him a much better lynch than plague. Additionally this has the added benefit of us eliminating the 'Ventriloquist' question from the plague situation. (Ventriloquist can not visit the same target 2 nights in a row).

[M-FM Princess Calia Menethil]

except im going to be an evil target tonight and i won't be confirmed so doc wont heal me

[M-FM Plaguelands]

No this is bullshit, if they lynch you today, and find out you're evil they can get another evil tomorrow. There is no other lead to get another evil today. the towns ONLY chance of lynching an evil from a lead today is to lynch YOU

Lol no, if I flip evil and a last will gets posted made by me that confirms me as town. I do expect that I'll end up dead just because it's better to get rid of the peasant citizens just so we don't risk losing a Detective (even though I'm confident my day contributions would be a lot more useful than you will be in the whole game, hah).

Plaguelands, you are thinking about how much you like Princess and trying to fit a narrative to that. Your scenario, frankly assumes a lot of newbie scum. A seasoned scumplayer would know that they could just kill you at night and save the tailor gambit for when Princess had credibility. Scum 1 v 1 ing you makes zero logical sense right here.

She could use to be more likable but that doesn't change optimal play.

I'm just trying to fit a narrative to the scumminess I'm seeing. It's the "bias" that comes from reading her posts. After she had turned on her brain for a bit I could see her being as town too because she used some arguments for a change (atleast ones better than she has brought the whole game), but for us both to live and work together would require her to see me as town too despite what the result said and that seemingly can't be erased from her mind. She'll push until I'm dead and then she'll be dead too. It's a shitty situation.

Anyway, I'm out for an hour. Put some pressure on Stratholme to find out more about his claim. We'll get back to the main course of this day's meal later when I'm back.

[Leech]

I have a VERY BAD FEELING about M-FM Stratholme.

That is all.

I read the setup and there was a question of that someone being healed by Doctor being informed.
NO WAS THE ANSWER, I'll leave my vote here.[/I][/B]

-vote M-FM Stratholme

Look's like the cats out of the bag.

[M-FM Mal'ganis]

Town would not want unnecessary attention upon themselves if they were aware of the lacking feedback.

If he's a footman attempting to draw attention away from Princess to get more checks?

Slayer's Gambit to see who would vote such nonsense but avoid voting a guilty claim.

Scum have just as little motivation to claim that as town do if not gambiting.

[M-FM Plaguelands]

He is correct. Stratholme lied about his feedback strongly suggesting he is the immune mafia hit by opposing mafia. This makes him a much better lynch than plague. Additionally this has the added benefit of us eliminating the 'Ventriloquist' question from the plague situation. (Ventriloquist can not visit the same target 2 nights in a row).

This is a good suggestion actually. I won't run away and it'll confirm Princess as not vented (or the opposite for that matter). We could see tomorrow.

Also I don't believe Princess will die today. If she's town then scum will keep her alive due to mislynch potential and the distraction in the day chat that is caused by this conflict.

[M-FM Quel'thalas]

LE playa is in le house

i have read and le people seem to be all le dickheads so in my le vote i shal go to my le ways

-vote M-FM Stratholme

[M-FM Mal'ganis]

If this isn't a desperate counterwagon, I will eat my hat.

Quel looks Vented.

To vote Strat means saying you think no town would claim attacked and healed because they read the setup, but lol scum don't.

[M-FM Dalaran]

This is a good suggestion actually. I won't run away and it'll confirm Princess as not vented (or the opposite for that matter). We could see tomorrow.

Also I don't believe Princess will die today. If she's town then scum will keep her alive due to mislynch potential and the distraction in the day chat that is caused by this conflict.

I am slightly relieved although disappointed in myself for not catching this. I did read this about the doc's feedback when digging through to see if BD had feedback. Also I was having quite a bit of trouble making up my mind about you and this situation. Another day will be more than enough time to have this sorted.

I am not quite so interested in Stratholme's defense. There is only one logical reason to lie about a doc heal. He is almost certanly trying to hide his night immunity from the opposing mafia.

Is the godfather informed of being attacked at night?

[M-FM Dalaran]

Is the godfather informed of being attacked at night?
Forgot to color.

[M-FM Mal'ganis]

Dalaran, The setup says roleblocks informed but nothing about kills. So I would say not.

This reeks of you taking facts and fitting them to a narrative. Stop it. Plague is likable but liking the guy doesn't make him town.

[M-FM Princess Calia Menethil]

This is a good suggestion actually. I won't run away and it'll confirm Princess as not vented (or the opposite for that matter). We could see tomorrow.

Also I don't believe Princess will die today. If she's town then scum will keep her alive due to mislynch potential and the distraction in the day chat that is caused by this conflict.

trying to draw doc off detective so you can kill tonight and take me with you is a bitch move

[M-FM Dalaran]

If this isn't a desperate counterwagon, I will eat my hat.

Quel looks Vented.

To vote Strat means saying you think no town would claim attacked and healed because they read the setup, but lol scum don't.

I very much believe no townie would claim attacked and healed for 2 reasons. 1- as stated they would not be informed if this happened. 2- Its N1 so if there is an armor smith they would not have a vest to use for this night. (No town role has night immunity)
And I do hope Quel is vented. I do not know if I could stomach any more people trying to lurk to the late game behind nonsense like that.

[M-FM Mal'ganis]

Plague, when you get back, do you stand behind your assertion that we will see your will tonight?

[M-FM Dalaran]

Dalaran, The setup says roleblocks informed but nothing about kills. So I would say not.

This reeks of you taking facts and fitting them to a narrative. Stop it. Plague is likable but liking the guy doesn't make him town.

I agree. I was constantly going back and fortieth on my read of him. We do not know if the GF knows he was hit. But we do 100% know that a healed player would not know they were healed. There is also a potential the mafia killer was role blocked and they are trying to cover that.

[M-FM Hearthglen]

I have a VERY BAD FEELING about M-FM Stratholme.

That is all.

Why?

[M-FM Mal'ganis]

I very much believe no townie would claim attacked and healed for 2 reasons. 1- as stated they would not be informed if this happened. 2- Its N1 so if there is an armor smith they would not have a vest to use for this night. (No town role has night immunity)
And I do hope Quel is vented. I do not know if I could stomach any more people trying to lurk to the late game behind nonsense like that.

Reason 1 is equally likely for scum. Scum can read the setup and know that healings aren't notified. That's one of the first things to read as scum, to verify whether if your kill fails, you could runinto conftown.

Reason 2 - Yes. I agree no armorsmith at issue.


Given we know that Strat claimed something impossible which benefits neither alignment. We know he's dumb or pulling a Slayer's gambit.

Plus, if Quel was vented, it makes sense he is benefitting scum with his vote. If Plague is town, why not use a vented vote on plague.

[M-FM Quel'thalas]

Hey sorry im not vented im just messin, being serious and all i do think strat is scum due to the research i read upon by searching the thread, i think princess is vented to try and kill off a town as detective whereas i do believe plaugelands claim as footman and that he would be a valuable asset to are town complex.

[M-FM Quel'thalas]

Plague, when you get back, do you stand behind your assertion that we will see your will tonight?

you believe i will be killed off tonight?

[M-FM Lordaeron]

Vent slip? ^

[M-FM Quel'thalas]

Vent slip? ^

me or mal'ganis

[M-FM Lordaeron]

me or mal'ganis

You're not Plague, yet you returned a reply as if you were Plague when it's intended for Plague.

[M-FM Quel'thalas]

me or mal'ganis

wait that was very stupid to ask of course ur talking about me
i assure you that i am not vented i can prove it tomos if u do no approve

and lorde, what ae you trying to get at

[M-FM Dalaran]

Reason 1 is equally likely for scum. Scum can read the setup and know that healings aren't notified. That's one of the first things to read as scum, to verify whether if your kill fails, you could runinto conftown.

Reason 2 - Yes. I agree no armorsmith at issue.


Given we know that Strat claimed something impossible which benefits neither alignment. We know he's dumb or pulling a Slayer's gambit.

Plus, if Quel was vented, it makes sense he is benefitting scum with his vote. If Plague is town, why not use a vented vote on plague.

I disagree that claiming attacked and healed benefits neither alignment. It has several benefits to a mafia faction as I have stated. If their killer was role blocked it provides the role blocked mafia some cover
If their GF was attacked it provides some cover to that GF from the other mafia.

My logic on this vote is this- I only see this as a town play in one situation which I do not think is very likely. Much less so even than a framer hitting Plague. Secondly there is a ton of doubt in the plague situation. Although I can not speak to Plagues alignment I can say that he is experienced and from his D1 chat he would have made for a good mafia target. If there is a vent in the mafia it would make sense for them to use it for a bad lynch (or potentially 2) first thing before players realize he exists. Putting a train on Strat makes more sense given these factors and can give us more clarity D3 for the Plague situation. I support this lynch over plagues.

My vote stays on Andorhal for now. I want to see him get on and contribute. But it is very likely I will be shifting to Strat in 24 hours or so.

[M-FM Lordaeron]

and lorde, what ae you trying to get at

Mal'Ganis asked something about Plague which you replied with dying, which I may tell you, is oddly appropriate question returned if you were Plague.
But you're not, sooooooooooooooo what.

[Bug]

Hmm.

Did Plaguelands claim, or did he state anything as to the detective's results?

[M-FM Quel'thalas]

Mal'Ganis asked something about Plague which you replied with dying, which I may tell you, is oddly appropriate question returned if you were Plague.
But you're not, sooooooooooooooo what.

ohhhhhhhh im a stupid fucking shit, i thought he was talking about me
sorry for the confusion

[M-FM Lordaeron]

Hmm.

Did Plaguelands claim, or did he state anything as to the detective's results?

You might want to read my bullet post.
I quoted every claim up to that point, including the possible subtles, and I also found a genuine slip from Stratholme.

[M-FM Dalaran]

Hmm.

Did Plaguelands claim, or did he state anything as to the detective's results?

He claimed footman and had pages of posts about the detective's results. I would recommend reading it.

[M-FM Mal'ganis]

I disagree that claiming attacked and healed benefits neither alignment. It has several benefits to a mafia faction as I have stated. If their killer was role blocked it provides the role blocked mafia some cover
If their GF was attacked it provides some cover to that GF from the other mafia.

My logic on this vote is this- I only see this as a town play in one situation which I do not think is very likely. Much less so even than a framer hitting Plague. Secondly there is a ton of doubt in the plague situation. Although I can not speak to Plagues alignment I can say that he is experienced and from his D1 chat he would have made for a good mafia target. If there is a vent in the mafia it would make sense for them to use it for a bad lynch (or potentially 2) first thing before players realize he exists. Putting a train on Strat makes more sense given these factors and can give us more clarity D3 for the Plague situation. I support this lynch over plagues.

My vote stays on Andorhal for now. I want to see him get on and contribute. But it is very likely I will be shifting to Strat in 24 hours or so.

But if everyone knows that there's no attacked and healed, what "cover" does it provide? He gets zero credit.

Are you even aware as to what a slayer's gambit is?

[M-FM Mal'ganis]

You might want to read my bullet post.
I quoted every claim up to that point, including the possible subtles, and I also found a genuine slip from Stratholme.

You did not. You found a gambit. Most slips are not slips.

I still think Plague should be lynched and Quel is trolling or scum!talker going for a double fakeout.

[M-FM Dalaran]

But if everyone knows that there's no attacked and healed, what "cover" does it provide? He gets zero credit.

Are you even aware as to what a slayer's gambit is?

Yes I am.

And I suppose the difference here is that I believe this was a slip. That he did not know doc feedback is not a thing. While you on the other hand have trouble believing that a scum would miss such a thing and slip. That he is pulling a gambit.

If this is good assumption we have to agree to disagree. I do not see a player pulling such a gambit with this feedback on the table. If it was him just looking scummy it would be one thing but this? No. You probably just created the entirety of his defense btw.

[M-FM Quel'thalas]

You did not. You found a gambit. Most slips are not slips.

I still think Plague should be lynched and Quel is trolling or scum!talker going for a double fakeout.

i dont know what a double fakeout is?
and im not trolling i always talk like this and i only recently came back to the site
but if im coming of trolly thats just my talk/playstyle