Role Suggestions: Thief & Copy Cat

[Cryptonic]

Thief

Evil Neutral

Action: Target one player at night, gaining their Power and converting them to Citizen/Scum bag.


Highly versatile. Can steal a Investigative, allowing them to appear to be town-sided to escape suspicion. Can steal killing roles, giving them ability to increase KPN if taken from town. ect. Not a perfect ability, as can also weaken Mafia/Triad & other Neutrals.

Win Condition: Survive until the end and see town lose.




Copy Cat

Benign Neutral

Action: Target one player at night, becoming their role and converting them to Citizen/Scum bag.


Like the Thief, but instead takes over it's target's role completely. Adds an additional member to a team. Role is kind of like a cross between Auditor and Amnesiac.

Win Condition: You win with the faction you join or if you're the last one standing. You do not win with anybody if you don't choose a team.




Copy Cat adds new benign, but also prevents Thief from being confirmed. Gives Thief ability to claim Copy Cat and that they're aligned to a specific faction when they're not, but also gives a town-aligned Copy Cat the ability to feign Thief and try to take the game.
Both roles should give the same feedback.



Just rough draft, any ideas/suggestions are welcome.

[Mikecall]

The ideas with the copycat and the thief seems good, however, i find that both of these roles are like a more powerful version of an auditor and amnesiac maybe not turning them into citizen or scumbag can appeal the roles to be better in a sense.

[Cryptonic]

Yea, now that I think of it, Thief is a more powerful version of Auditor in a sense. However, Thief can only use his action once, so he has to make sure he thinks about who he steals from. And while Copy Cat kind of does the same, it adds a player to the team at the same time.

I guess it does work to have the role not turn into Citizen/Scumbag, but I just worry about balance issues when you have a Thief/Copy Cat target roles like Serial Killer lol. KPN would increase drastically as both roles would be able to kill.

[Mikecall]

True, maybe if there is multiple of copy cats and thief being in a game, maybe have an option to have on/off immune roles such as gf or sk to even out the balance as it wont be one sided or the other like what amnesiac has with becoming killing roles

[DrakEmono]

Well, I would say the same thing as Auditor. I don't really remember if it's an option, but if I remember well, the Auditor can't target the GF, SK or such.

[Mikecall]

Yes, The auditor does have an option with Immunity To Convert = On/Off so toggling with this option in game can decide if important roles such as godfather and serial killer dont turn into mafiasos or scumbags

[deathworlds]

I like them, but make it so they can't copy Unique roles.

[MasterNinja]

and how many roles would thief be able to take? after 6 days it has 6 abilities? invest 1, shot 2, bus drive 4 and 8. then detective on 10 and then sheriff on 3. and then doctor on 15

copy cat was okay. but thief?

for options
maximum 1/2 abilities possible.

[Cryptonic]

and how many roles would thief be able to take? after 6 days it has 6 abilities? invest 1, shot 2, bus drive 4 and 8. then detective on 10 and then sheriff on 3. and then doctor on 15

copy cat was okay. but thief?

for options
maximum 1/2 abilities possible.

Thief can only use his action once, then he has the ability of his target for the rest of the game.

[MasterNinja]

and how would you state that possible without being a killer role.
if its 2 town left vs you, but ur ability is being a doctor how would you win. there is no way. even tho seems awfully easy to side with town being this role.

i mean even if all the mafia / neutral dies you have no chance. its like being survivor but you cant win with town and you gain one ability from a random person you visit.

[Cryptonic]

and how would you state that possible without being a killer role.
if its 2 town left vs you, but ur ability is being a doctor how would you win. there is no way. even tho seems awfully easy to side with town being this role.

i mean even if all the mafia / neutral dies you have no chance. its like being survivor but you cant win with town and you gain one ability from a random person you visit.

What? You act like if you're outnumbered as a non-killing non-town role, it's impossible to win. The whole point of this game is to mislead, deceive and convince people to do what you say. If you can't convince Town to lynch one of their own to save your ass, you aren't very skilled.


Also, the person you visit isn't random. You choose who you visit. That's why you wait and hold off until you get a good read on someone and then steal their role. You don't just randomly click someone night one and hope for the best.

[MasterNinja]

did i miss something? you choose role from dead players or alive players? if alive its random, if dead its confirmed. thats what i ment

and yeah try get jester win with only jester alone in the game or 1v1. its 50/50 that you or the other person dies. you have 3 players left. one mafia. one town. and the thief
50/50 who that will die when night occurs.

i dont mind the role. and what about mayor / marshalls? or veteran? or MM? and what about EXE, lol maybe if you hit a jester then if you get voted up as thief one of the guiltiers would die. and they would not know what hit em. LOL
that would been something.
most legit role to look like a town would be to copy a judge / crier and talk at night.

[lingsarecute]

I suppport thief, but copy hat seems like a more powerfull version of amnesiac.

P.S Thief isn't auditor - he can audit only the person he robbed, auditor can audit 3/4 people

[Mentar]

if alive its random,

only if you're bad at it.

and yeah try get jester win with only jester alone in the game or 1v1. its 50/50 that you or the other person dies. you have 3 players left. one mafia. one town. and the thief
50/50 who that will die when night occurs.

I have no idea whatsoever what you're trying to say or what point you're trying to make here.

[DrakEmono]

and how would you state that possible without being a killer role.
if its 2 town left vs you, but ur ability is being a doctor how would you win. there is no way. even tho seems awfully easy to side with town being this role.

That's STRICTLY the same thing as EVERY other neutral evils... I don't see why you point out this role since auditor, witch or such can't kill either, if it ends up 2v1... It's just up to them to convince one of the other towns to vote each others.

[Cryptonic]

MasterNinja, do you just randomly click players when you use your night actions? Or do you think about it first? It's not a 50/50 chance because there are thousands of variables that have to be taken into account.

Choosing alive players also isn't random. Certain roles will act certain ways to gain/lose attention, people role claim, roles list+graveyard help narrow it down lol

Anyways, copy cat was more of a way to make the presence of thief unconfirmed, giving them an extra roles to claim if needed. Plus I could see it having a place. You say it's an OP Amnesiac, but not all roles are supposed to be equal in strength. It serves a different purpose than Amnesiac and would change the meta of the game.

[yzb25]

Cryptonic, rather than making copy cat-ed players turn into citizen / scumbag, make them turn into another copy cat. I want role change plagues. I want that in my sc2mafia. It would be so incredibly fun. Please. Please.

Naturally I understand the repercussions of such a role. So I'd recommend making a new "neutral broken" alignment where we can put this role. We can put Serial Killer in there too. Two birds with one stone.

Please. Everyone wants this, it's just we're all too scared to mention it. Please. I know this satiates your inner baby desires to troll. They told me you are simply precocious. They're lying. Succumb to your desires. Please.

[Shifty]

Is the copy-cats role revealed to town? And what happens if thief uses his ability on mayor/marshall? That would be pretty overpowered.

[Cryptonic]

Cryptonic, rather than making copy cat-ed players turn into citizen / scumbag, make them turn into another copy cat. I want role change plagues. I want that in my sc2mafia. It would be so incredibly fun. Please. Please.

Naturally I understand the repercussions of such a role. So I'd recommend making a new "neutral broken" alignment where we can put this role. We can put Serial Killer in there too. Two birds with one stone.

Please. Everyone wants this, it's just we're all too scared to mention it. Please. I know this satiates your inner baby desires to troll. They told me you are simply precocious. They're lying. Succumb to your desires. Please.

Hahaha yea I've always liked the idea of that role. Until a Mafia member gets targeted and then outs the other two mafia members.

Is the copy-cats role revealed to town? And what happens if thief uses his ability on mayor/marshall? That would be pretty overpowered.

No not revealed to town.
And I was thinking that thief would get the ability of mayor or marshall, but could limit it to night actions (ie nothing to steal) to help balance

[yzb25]

Hahaha yea I've always liked the idea of that role. Until a Mafia member gets targeted and then outs the other two mafia members.
help balance

You could do it so that, once someone is copycat-ed, the names and numbers of every player is randomly rearranged for the new copycat (so, for example, messages from 4 will appear to be from 7, messages from 10 will be from 1, exc.). This would mean they wouldn't instantly know who is who and be able to lynch their old alignment (but would gain snippets of information that would allow them to deduce the evils over time).

And, also, if a copycat, or someone who was a copycat last night or the night before last night, is lynched, the guiltiers are all rewarded with something. It could be a bpf vest for example. Basically, an incentive to LYNCH the copycat, without relying on win condition. Comparable to the opposite of jester.

An option to make cooldown on copycats could also help for certain saves.

I think this would fix the metagame issue you presented and add other interesting metagame things. Then again an ability like this can't even be done in forum mafia XDDD.

[Cryptonic]

You could do it so that, once someone is copycat-ed, the names and numbers of every player is randomly rearranged for the new copycat (so, for example, messages from 4 will appear to be from 7, messages from 10 will be from 1, exc.). This would mean they wouldn't instantly know who is who and be able to lynch their old alignment (but would gain snippets of information that would allow them to deduce the evils over time).

And, also, if a copycat, or someone who was a copycat last night or the night before last night, is lynched, the guiltiers are all rewarded with something. It could be a bpf vest for example. Basically, an incentive to LYNCH the copycat, without relying on win condition. Comparable to the opposite of jester.

An option to make cooldown on copycats could also help for certain saves.

I think this would fix the metagame issue you presented and add other interesting metagame things. Then again an ability like this can't even be done in forum mafia XDDD.

So a Mafioso get's Copy Cat'd, and turns into Copy Cat and everyone is randomized. Then he steals the role of a Sheriff, and tries to say someone who they checked is SK. But the person they checked is actually different to everybody else, and then he lynches a Town member? Nah that won't work either.

[yzb25]

So a Mafioso get's Copy Cat'd, and turns into Copy Cat and everyone is randomized. Then he steals the role of a Sheriff, and tries to say someone who they checked is SK. But the person they checked is actually different to everybody else, and then he lynches a Town member? Nah that won't work either.

well, no. You'd vote him and say "He's SK! Get him!" The vote will appear the same for everyone so there will be no confusion, even if you're not sure what name they appear as for everyone else. But I agree - people don't generally say "Hi, I'm that guy who was 2 yesterday and I'm the one talking now" so you'd probably have to deduce via. context and writing style (this doesn't sound noob friendly xD).

And trying to remember the 'real' identities of 15 people (or repeatedly referring to the lower line of your LW where you'll probably save it as a memento) would be a pain in the ass. Again, you'd probably have to implement the ability to write some kind of small number or note that you can put next to people's names on the name card and then you could easily refer to that. You know, now I think about it, the ability to put a small message next to names on the name card (and have those messages appear next to their name when they talk) is a really nice idea. Sometimes if someone only says something once on d1 like "I'm survivor don't kill me" it's easy to forget. Being able to save it directly to them is nice.

*starts new suggestion thread*

[Cryptonic]

well, no. You'd vote him and say "He's SK! Get him!" The vote will appear the same for everyone so there will be no confusion, even if you're not sure what name they appear as for everyone else. But I agree - people don't generally say "Hi, I'm that guy who was 2 yesterday and I'm the one talking now" so you'd probably have to deduce via. context and writing style (this doesn't sound noob friendly xD).

Ok, it does seem like it would then be possible in that situation. Seems fairly complex to code something like that this, though. :P

[Mentar]

Again, you'd probably have to implement the ability to write some kind of small number or note that you can put next to people's names on the name card and then you could easily refer to that. You know, now I think about it, the ability to put a small message next to names on the name card (and have those messages appear next to their name when they talk) is a really nice idea. Sometimes if someone only says something once on d1 like "I'm survivor don't kill me" it's easy to forget. Being able to save it directly to them is nice.

*starts new suggestion thread*

i've always thought that being able to put quick notes next to each name in the list would be nice but it's not really something we can't just do for ourselves. Personally i play with a pen and paper. Start of the game i write down 1-15 and then note any roleclaims / useful information as they comes up.