M-FM XXII Hunger Games Gamethread

[Twill]

You're welcome.

What are your own observations on Rue/BBL?

On BBL: It's a mess. When it went down I couldn't follow the arguments because everything gets thrown left and right and there is no structure to the arguments that are used for BBL's defense. It has been building up slowly but it was a weird ride and I'm still kind of unsure.

On Rue: It's the little things that make him scum. Your observations for one: Voting Cato, and the claiming feedback. You are right about the consistency, usually there should be a time that the player is able to claim feedback every day. Even if there is a day where there is no time to claim, it should be possible to recognize a consistency. To me personally, Rue seems a bit dodgy and there are some contradictory observations (for example the opinion about Bonnie in the neighbour chat vs. how Rue claims it went down/how he meant it).

I'm still not 100% sure on the lynch, but it seems that this is the best shot we have..

[Madge]

-vote The Boy with the Bad Leg

Right now I prefer Boys.

Rue doesn't make sense to me.

Anyway with 4 scums it's almost 50% to hit a scum for me (welll, 4/9 to be exact), so let's just do it.

[Thresh]

Cato has picked up the Flag.

This concludes another round of the Weapon Draft.

Day ends in 48 hours at this time.

12 hours left.

[Gale]

Why doesn't Rue make sense to you, Madge?

Rue I see you there. Claim, then read.

Thanks, Thresh.

[Madge]

If I were scum I would tell my team to split the votes evenly. They only need one mislynch after all.

I have one stupid reason to think Cato is Town. Flag appeared when it was obvious Cato is the only one who can draft it. We know that Primrose died because of Host's error, so either Cato is Town and Flag is awesome for us or Cato is scum and Flag does something awful. I think it would make more sense for town!Cato. Yes, I'm analyzing the Host, I know that's bad.

[Thresh]

Anyone put Boy at L-1 may or may not cause an instant hammer.

[Madge]

-unvote

Yes, I can see Rue as well.

I bet you that Rue will claim something that will make this lynch confusing as hell.

[Rue]

Hey, I'm here. I've been so busy I forgot about this game. It doesn't help that I'm used to big FMs where day and night are both 48 hours long. I'm still pretty busy, but I'll try to post as often as I can today. Trying to read through and catch up now.

[Gale]

Twill, understandable. I just find no system of plausible actions that generates a roleblock for BbL + associatives with other scum + inconsistent play (open vote with Cato).

I am really chill as long as these two are the trains. If someone from my conf PoE town gets trained, I will lose my top again.

Madhe, why are you voting and unvoting so fast?

Rue, skip the read... CLAIM! then read.

[Gale]

If I were scum I would tell my team to split the votes evenly. They only need one mislynch after all..

Madge continues to make the trains even....

[Thresh]

Hey, I'm here. I've been so busy I forgot about this game. It doesn't help that I'm used to big FMs where day and night are both 48 hours long. I'm still pretty busy, but I'll try to post as often as I can today. Trying to read through and catch up now.

Vote The boy, otherwise, it is you who will die.

[Madge]

Madge continues to make the trains even....

I don't want scum to coordinate and quick hammer if we are wrong.

You probably remember that I had my invisibility off just yesterDay. I turned it on exactly for this reason.

[Madge]

I also don't mind a last no-lynch Day. Maybe we read it all wrong and e.g. Twill is scum?

[Thresh]

@Madge

If you want to win, then you have to participate actively on the voting board.

When you did, fox died. When you didn't marvel died.

Looks like today you want to be the final vote, similar strategy as to me in previous days.

I had two votes, but you do not.

Beware of that and be wise.

If boy is a mafia and beyond the save, mafia will want to lynch boy to gain town read for the popular poll opinion "Marvel flip town, so boy is scum."

[Rue]

Just to quickly respond to all the stupid arguments about my so-called inconsistency in regards to Bonnie:

This is the timestamp of the post in neighbor chat in which I said Bonnie was scummy and wouldn't mind lynching her (which Twill can confirm):
Rue
02-07-2014
10:49 AM ET (US)

And here is the timestamp of the post I made in this thread saying I didn't like the votes on Bonnie:
February 13th, 2014, 12:38 PM (link)

Note how there are 6 days between those two posts. During that time, I changed my mind and decided we would be better off letting Bonnie suicide bomb to prove herself because if she didn't we could still lynch her the next day.

And if changing my mind over the course of 6 days is scummy, then Gale must be scumlord, king of scum, since in a matter of just ~2 days he has changed his mind from "Cato & Thresh are scum" to "Cato (and therefore, Thresh) are confirmed Town".

[Gale]

Changing one's mind isn't scummy. Yet, you never did. You never said bonnie is town. You were of the opinion it was better to let Bonnie live. Big difference.

Bonnie lives, you get two town deaths.

I changed my mind after scumhunting and owned it.


Now, claim. The rest of us have.

[Madge]

@Madge

If you want to win, then you have to participate actively on the voting board.

When you did, fox died. When you didn't marvel died.

Looks like today you want to be the final vote, similar strategy as to me in previous days.

I had two votes, but you do not.

Beware of that and be wise.

If boy is a mafia and beyond the save, mafia will want to lynch boy to gain town read for the popular poll opinion "Marvel flip town, so boy is scum."

Oh, just stop. It's easier for scum to join the train then create a new one, so my vote being last makes sense.

And by keeping a balance we can pressure two people at once.

[Rue]

Changing one's mind isn't scummy. Yet, you never did. You never said bonnie is town. You were of the opinion it was better to let Bonnie live. Big difference.

Bonnie lives, you get two town deaths.

I changed my mind after scumhunting and owned it.


Now, claim. The rest of us have.

Did I need to say it? I think it's pretty obvious that if I thought she was scum, I'd rather she not get to suicide bomb a towny. The whole point was that she'd get to take a scum down with her.

If you really wish me to claim, so be it. I am an inventor. I attempted to give Twill a charge of veteran alert on night 4, but Marvel roleblocked me, which apparently makes the item disappear. I also had a charge of motivate, which I gave to Cato last night in the hopes that he could double sheriff and find two scum tonight. There is a third charge that I will keep secret for the time being.

[Madge]

I'm pretty sure Cato would know about such thing like getting motivated. He didn't say anything.

Cato?

[Gale]

@Madge, agreed. The claim is obviously bullshit.

The one thing I've noticed with Striker's claim is that none of his invididual roles were repeated. The combinations make room for the vanillas. Rue is repeating Veteran, which goes against my claim. That also makes Boy's motivation theory impossible, yet Rue doesn't push on Boy, she pushes on me instead.

Also, look at the end of day 4. Rue says she it was pretty obvious she wouldn't want scum to suicide bomb a townie. Yet in #964 she states that Bonnie exploding as a scum is not a problem bc it is a 1 v 1. Rue knows the town motivation, but she wasn't saying it then.

[Gale]

Fuck it. Boy isn't getting the votes and they are both obvscum. Rue keeps giving us bullshit and won't claim tomorrow's action so she can make it up to be consistent with the facts.

Cato already told us he wasn't motivated when he said he went to check Glimmer but got shattered. If motivated, he would have said so then.

-vote Rue

[Rue]

@Madge, agreed. The claim is obviously bullshit.

The one thing I've noticed with Striker's claim is that none of his invididual roles were repeated. The combinations make room for the vanillas. Rue is repeating Veteran, which goes against my claim. That also makes Boy's motivation theory impossible, yet Rue doesn't push on Boy, she pushes on me instead.

Also, look at the end of day 4. Rue says she it was pretty obvious she wouldn't want scum to suicide bomb a townie. Yet in #964 she states that Bonnie exploding as a scum is not a problem bc it is a 1 v 1. Rue knows the town motivation, but she wasn't saying it then.

There you go twisting my words again. The point I was making was that IF I was wrong and she was scum suiciding on a towny, it wouldn't be as big a deal because we outnumbered the scum 3:1. Plus, numbers-wise it's the exact same as town bonnie suiciding a scum. Either way it's -1 town, -1 scum. But since Bonnie was lynched, all we got was -1 town.

It doesn't contradict your claim. Both a veteran and a veteran item could co-exist. I didn't accuse you. But your immediate defensive reaction is interesting.

[Madge]

-vote The Boy with the Bad Leg

Yes. I know.

Rue may be telling us the truth. We don't have much clues, he could easily abstain such information to not risk double Inventor claimer. Hopefully he will be here in time.

[Gale]

Madge, no Rue cannot be telling the truth. Cato implicitly denied being motivated.

I think Rue is an inventor, but rather she is a scum inventor and fabricating the rest of her actions.

[Gale]

Did I say you accused me Rue, no you pushed on me. the subtleness is there trying to plant seeds of doubt. If Bonnie was scum, we save a townie. If she was town, there was no guaranteed on scum. you wanted her not bc u thought she was town, but you'd get a free death.

[Rue]

Fuck it. Boy isn't getting the votes and they are both obvscum. Rue keeps giving us bullshit and won't claim tomorrow's action so she can make it up to be consistent with the facts.

Cato already told us he wasn't motivated when he said he went to check Glimmer but got shattered. If motivated, he would have said so then.

-vote Rue

In the future, if you could read the setup before making stupid assertions, that would be great. The motivate is an item. I gave it to him last night. Now H]he can use it tonight. It doesn't take effect the night I give it because how the fuck would that even work. And why don't you ask him why he didn't claim it? That's none of my concern. I know that I gave it to him and that I wasn't blocked, so I know he got it unless it was redirected somehow.

As I see it, this is your current assertion: I'm scum, so I decided to fake claim a confirmable role, by claiming to have given a confirmed town sheriff the power to confirm me.

...

If I'm lying and scum, don't you think it would be pretty fucking stupid to lie about giving an item to a sheriff? But by all means, let him come in and back me up since you refuse to believe me. Heaven forbid we go a single day without trying to lynch me. Jesus. I can see why the original Madge asked to be replaced. You all are frustratingly blind.

[Madge]

Rue can give last item to me tonight then. Mafia will shatter Cato so they can't kill me.

I really doubt Rue would claim such confirmable action, but maybe that's why she was late, to make sure that Cato isn't around.

If Rue is scum Cato has to be scum as well, I don't see any other explanation. That way shattering Cato would make sense and Boy would have a plausible reason to remove Rue's weaponry.

Rue, your readings please?

[Gale]

Madge, the last item should be given to a universal townread. You aren't it. We could do me, but I have some issues given the scumfucks are subtly pushing me.

[Gale]

Of course, that supposes Rue is alive, which she shouldn't be given that I am finally on board with Rue dying.

[Gale]

Rue, boned scum is boned. Cato didn't claim movitated/received motivation so it didn't happen. Spin all you want as to how your inventor works.

[Madge]

Madge, the last item should be given to a universal townread. You aren't it. We could do me, but I have some issues given the scumfucks are subtly pushing me.

Last universal Town read will be dead tonight.

Kill Twill, Shatto Cato.

I don't think we have much options left.

[Gale]

Peeta is still a universal townread. :nod: Either Peeta or Twill should get it or me. I'm a universal townread but for BBL and Rue who are scum. I don't townread you Madge, so I don't want you getting it. Same goes for Katniss and Glimmer, obviously.

[Madge]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure noboody would visit a self-claimed Veteran. And I think you're far from universal Town read.

Peeta can wok as well. I nominate him and myself, to have some WIFOM for tonight.

[Gale]

Rue and Cato do not have to be scumbuddies. You are supposing that a) the mafia knew that they could shatter their own weapons and b) they did not view WiFom as a motivation to pick the townie instead.

[Gale]

Madge, ok fair enough. I'll take thatas you are not townreading me. Not a big surprise there.

Peeta or Twill gets the last item if Rue lives. Period.

[Rue]

Rue can give last item to me tonight then. Mafia will shatter Cato so they can't kill me.

I really doubt Rue would claim such confirmable action, but maybe that's why she was late, to make sure that Cato isn't around.

If Rue is scum Cato has to be scum as well, I don't see any other explanation. That way shattering Cato would make sense and Boy would have a plausible reason to remove Rue's weaponry.

Rue, your readings please?

I gave my reads yesterday. They haven't changed much except that Cato is scum if he doesn't confirm me. Not that it will mater, since mislynching today means we lose.

Madge, the last item should be given to a universal townread. You aren't it. We could do me, but I have some issues given the scumfucks are subtly pushing me.

Hmm... So you, a claimed veteran, want me, a claimed town inventor, to prove myself by... visiting you. Yeah, I don't think so.

Add the fact that I don't really trust you as town, and you get a whole lot of NOPE.

[Rue]

Is it me, or does Gale describe himself as "confirmed town", a bit more often than an actual towny would? Especially one who claims an unconfirmed role.

[Madge]

Rue and Cato do not have to be scumbuddies. You are supposing that a) the mafia knew that they could shatter their own weapons and .

Why are you keep repeating that? Yes, we can assume that Mafia are 5 total retards who refuse to read setup or Day chat (because such option was known publicly since d2), but why would you do that? If all scums are such morons we should lynch Thresh, because he was likely to claim his victory yesterDay.

[Gale]

When in Day 2 was that known publically? I missed that discussion in its entirety in my reread.

Also the setup implies the mafia have a shatter ability,but not who hey can use it on. A plausible assumption is to always shatter town.

[Gale]

Why are you hellbent on expanding the pool to include Cato?

[Madge]

When Primrose assumed that Remover is Mafia, someone (I'm pretty sure it was a Boy) mentioned that Primrose is completely ignoring the possibility that Mafia shattered one of their own. It was common knowledge for everyone.

[Madge]

Why are you hellbent on expanding the pool to include Cato?

Because shattering Cato on n2 makes little sense. If Boy is really a scum it can be explained though.

[Gale]

Ok I looked back. BBL's post does imply mafia could shatter their weapons. Still a mafia as methodical as you postulate, never picking each other in the drafy, wouldn't date shatter their own weapons. Especially when it provides them an opportunity to expand a lynch when Rue is going down.

[Gale]

Madge, Boy is a scum. I cannot come us with a scenario, supposing all scums are acting properly, where BBL is town.

[Gale]

Shattering Cato means Rue cannot slip and scums have a vanilla role for killing and shattering. Decent manuever.

[Gale]

Looks like I hit 300 posts. Time for a nice long nap.

[Guru Pathik]

Cato has picked up the Flag.

This concludes another round of the Weapon Draft.

Day ends in 48 hours at this time.

Weapon draft ended here. WOLFRAMALHPA LINK GIVES DAY END

What happens when a Roleblocker blocks another Roleblocker? What happens if the both target each other? Is Roleblocker immune to roleblocks?

Rue said she became roleblocked, that means she is a PR or she lied.

Boy will probably claim another roleblock.

Roleblocker is informed they were roleblocked, but because both are resolved simultaneously, their roleblock still goes through.

Duh, Boy already checked in. I really have to stop missing those new posts.

Second wasted action in a row, huh? That's quite...coincidence.

Hey, Host! Removing a weapon comes before the kill, right? Shouldn't we get a message saying "X's weapon was removed" if he was killed the same night his weapon got removed? I'm not asking to confirm removing a weapon, I just wonder would we get a notification about it.

Striker's weapon was removed AND he was killed last night.

i thought so too. doesnt make sense.
well actually i should have known the mafia will probably kill striker. that wasn't a smart action from me, i admit. but i dont think i would have targeted him if i was mafia

i will try to make an analysis of what happened n4 to me

currently alive with roles
1. Glimmer (wielding Dagger) used one shot
3. Cato (wielding Water Cannon) sheriff
5. Twill* (wielding Slingshot) neighbour
6. The Boy with the Bad Leg (wielding Mace) remover
7. Rue (wielding Pod) ?? PR
8. Thresh* (wielding Spear) double vote
9. Gale* (wielding Land Mines) veteran?
10. Katniss (wielding Baton) vanilla?
11. Madge** (wielding Brick) vest + ??
12. Peeta (wielding Snare) journalist

so what options do we have.
a) there is another roleblocker who targeted me
b) a joat/inventor had a charge of roleblock
c) marvel was motivated

a: the only ones possible for that are cain, rue, katniss, gale and madge. rue claim role pls, madge tell us your second ability.
we know rue was roleblocked if a roleblocker is roleblocked, can they still do their own block? are they informed of being roleblocked
if the first one is 'no' than we can exclude rue. if the first one is 'yes' and the second one is 'no' we can exclude it aswell (exclude rue = NOT answer1 OR NOT answer2)
we'll never know about cain unless we pick up his weapon, which should be done in case i survive this day (cato seems scummy because he didnt, scum obviously wouldnt want to prevent this almost inevitable lynch by finding out cain was the roleblocker)
b: again the same list of possible players and striker in addition. striker seems quite possible, as he deliberately ignored my question about him doing it. can also only be found out if we pick up his weapon
c: i dont think this is likely after marvel flips town

conclusion: the most likely explanation is that mafia (katniss/gale) are lying about their claim and are actually a rber/inventor who gave out charge of rb to scummate or that cain/striker did the roleblock.

Answered above

[Gale]

Do all dead people have weapons removed?

[Gale]

You aren't using Natural Action Resolution to resolve ties?

[Gale]

Back to sleep. Blah. Any questions to me will be answered later.