lookout ignores BD swap?

[arielb]

lookouts indeed visits homes, but i saw in 1 game that 3 people visited lookout's target:
arso (for dousing)
investigator
and bus driver.

bus driver drove lookout's target with the investigator (that visited the lookout's target).

invest was really doused (as he was swapped with himself)
but lookout saw the 3 guys visiting 14 (but they actually visited investigator).

so. lookout ignores BD swaps as i see.
what about detective? if i'd go on the investigator - will i see him visiting himself?

[Cryptonic]

lookouts indeed visits homes, but i saw in 1 game that 3 people visited lookout's target:
arso (for dousing)
investigator
and bus driver.

bus driver drove lookout's target with the investigator (that visited the lookout's target).

invest was really doused (as he was swapped with himself)
but lookout saw the 3 guys visiting 14 (but they actually visited investigator).

so. lookout ignores BD swaps as i see.
what about detective? if i'd go on the investigator - will i see him visiting himself?

Wat? You said the Investigator was swapped with himself, so wouldn't the Lookout be looking at the Investigator regardless?

Maybe post a replay, cause I don't really understand what happened

[louiswill]

lookouts indeed visits homes, but i saw in 1 game that 3 people visited lookout's target:
arso (for dousing)
investigator
and bus driver.

bus driver drove lookout's target with the investigator (that visited the lookout's target).

invest was really doused (as he was swapped with himself)
but lookout saw the 3 guys visiting 14 (but they actually visited investigator).

so. lookout ignores BD swaps as i see.
what about detective? if i'd go on the investigator - will i see him visiting himself?

Arson -> 14's house
Inve-> 14's house
BD-> 14's house
BD-> invest's house
Lookout-> 14's house

Result:
Investigator was in 14's house that night.
14 was in investigator's house that night.
Lookout saw BD, arsonist and invest,
Investigator checked himself,
Investigator got doused.

Is that correct?

I see nothing wrong about it because lookout target house not person.

In fact, almost everyone targets house not person.

[arielb]

(idk why i marked this with suggestion )

i'll post a replay if u still dont understand, (as i'm lazy)

3, 7, 12 -> 14 (3 of them visited 14)
3 was arso
7 invest
12 Bus driver.

12 switched 14 <-> 7

that means, invest and arso actually visited 7 (as 7 was really doused and actually invested himself).

but! there was a lookout (15 for our talk) - 15 visited 14,
15 saw the following guys visiting 14: 3,7,12 (she saw the arso and invest - which redirected actually to 7, and saw 12 - the bus driver).

[Slaol]

Lookout doesn't ignore Bus Driver- Bus Driver moves people, and Lookouts watch houses.

If I understood your description correctly.
1: Lookout watched player 14.
2: Bus Driver swapped player 14 with Investigator
3: Arsonist went to douse player 14
4: Investigator went to investigate player 14

The end result of this would be Arsonist, Investigator, and Lookout visiting Player 14's home, which contained the Investigator.

The players VISITED 14, but EFFECTED the Investigator. The topic of Bus Driver and Beguiler/Deceiver can get complicated, so it is important to separate; in your own mind, the different ideas of visiting (where a player moved to), and effecting (who was hit with the feedback). In this case all the players visited #14, but effected the Investigator because the Investigator was swapped with 14.

Lookout does not ignore Bus Driver, but can not tell which player is actually at the home he watches.
If a Detective had chosen to track the Investigator he would have VISITED the Investigator's home, but EFFECTED player 14, and then tracked player 14 for that night.

[louiswill]

(idk why i marked this with suggestion )

i'll post a replay if u still dont understand, (as i'm lazy)

3, 7, 12 -> 14 (3 of them visited 14)
3 was arso
7 invest
12 Bus driver.

12 switched 14 <-> 7

that means, invest and arso actually visited 7 (as 7 was really doused and actually invested himself).

but! there was a lookout (15 for our talk) - 15 visited 14,
15 saw the following guys visiting 14: 3,7,12 (she saw the arso and invest - which redirected actually to 7, and saw 12 - the bus driver).

Arson -> 14's house
Inve-> 14's house
BD-> 14's house
BD-> invest's house
Lookout-> 14's house

Result:
Investigator was in 14's house that night.
14 was in investigator's house that night.
Lookout saw BD, arsonist and invest,
Investigator checked himself,
Investigator got doused.

Pretty much.

[Slaol]

Night actions have 3 parts.
1: Targets.
2: Visits.
3: Effects.

If there is a Spy 1, Framer 2, Bus Driver 3, Witch 4, Sheriff 5, and Citizen 6
- Targets -
Spy 1 takes no action: sees Framer Target Sheriff 5
Framer 1 targets Sheriff 5
Bus Driver 3 swaps Citizen 6 and Witch 4
Witch 4 witches Framer onto Citizen 6
Sheriff 5 checks Citizen 6
Citizen 6 uses his vest like a pleb

- Visits -
Spy 1: none
Framer 2: Citizen 6 (his visitation being different from his target due to Witch)
Bus Driver 3: Witch 4 and Citizen 6
Witch 4: Framer 2
Sheriff 5: Citizen 6
Citizen 6: none

- Effects -
Spy 1: No real effect, but would see a Frame attempt on Sheriff 5 that matches the Framer's Target.
Framer 2: Framer 2 would effect and frame the player at Citizen 6's home, which is now occupied by Witch 4.
Bus Driver 3: Bus Driver 3's visit and Effect would match each other as the OoO does not impact it
Witch 4: Witch 4 would effect Framer 2 to visit Citizen 6's home which would contain Witch 4.
Sheriff 5: Sheriff 5 would go Check Citizen 6's home, which would contain a framed Witch 4.
Citizen 6: Citizen 6 would be swapped by the Bus Driver

- After the fact -
The Sheriff would get a framed guilty check from the Witch, but believe it to be the Citizen.
The Spy would see the Framer visit the Sheriff, and thus conclude the Sheriff's lead was, in fact, the Framer himself.
The Bus Driver would chime in to explain his impact and suggest the lynch of the Witch over the Citizen that did not occupy the home that night.
The Town would vote to lynch the Witch, thinking that player was the Framer.

[louiswill]

Sloal you should post some weekly quiz for new players.

[arielb]

Lookout doesn't ignore Bus Driver- Bus Driver moves people, and Lookouts watch houses.

If I understood your description correctly.
1: Lookout watched player 14.
2: Bus Driver swapped player 14 with Investigator
3: Arsonist went to douse player 14
4: Investigator went to investigate player 14

The end result of this would be Arsonist, Investigator, and Lookout visiting Player 14's home, which contained the Investigator.

The players VISITED 14, but EFFECTED the Investigator. The topic of Bus Driver and Beguiler/Deceiver can get complicated, so it is important to separate; in your own mind, the different ideas of visiting (where a player moved to), and effecting (who was hit with the feedback). In this case all the players visited #14, but effected the Investigator because the Investigator was swapped with 14.

Lookout does not ignore Bus Driver, but can not tell which player is actually at the home he watches.
If a Detective had chosen to track the Investigator he would have VISITED the Investigator's home, but EFFECTED player 14, and then tracked player 14 for that night.

explained perfectly. thanks.

[arielb]

Night actions have 3 parts.
1: Targets.
2: Visits.
3: Effects.

If there is a Spy 1, Framer 2, Bus Driver 3, Witch 4, Sheriff 5, and Citizen 6
- Targets -
Spy 1 takes no action: sees Framer Target Sheriff 5
Framer 1 targets Sheriff 5
Bus Driver 3 swaps Citizen 6 and Witch 4
Witch 4 witches Framer onto Citizen 6
Sheriff 5 checks Citizen 6
Citizen 6 uses his vest like a pleb

- Visits -
Spy 1: none
Framer 2: Citizen 6 (his visitation being different from his target due to Witch)
Bus Driver 3: Witch 4 and Citizen 6
Witch 4: Framer 2
Sheriff 5: Citizen 6
Citizen 6: none

- Effects -
Spy 1: No real effect, but would see a Frame attempt on Sheriff 5 that matches the Framer's Target.
Framer 2: Framer 2 would effect and frame the player at Citizen 6's home, which is now occupied by Witch 4.
Bus Driver 3: Bus Driver 3's visit and Effect would match each other as the OoO does not impact it
Witch 4: Witch 4 would effect Framer 2 to visit Citizen 6's home which would contain Witch 4.
Sheriff 5: Sheriff 5 would go Check Citizen 6's home, which would contain a framed Witch 4.
Citizen 6: Citizen 6 would be swapped by the Bus Driver

- After the fact -
The Sheriff would get a framed guilty check from the Witch, but believe it to be the Citizen.
The Spy would see the Framer visit the Sheriff, and thus conclude the Sheriff's lead was, in fact, the Framer himself.
The Bus Driver would chime in to explain his impact and suggest the lynch of the Witch over the Citizen that did not occupy the home that night.
The Town would vote to lynch the Witch, thinking that player was the Framer.

mind blowing thx

[Slaol]

Glad I could help.

[BrockSamson]

Wat? You said the Investigator was swapped with himself, so wouldn't the Lookout be looking at the Investigator regardless?

Maybe post a replay, cause I don't really understand what happened

You not understanding what is happening is a common thing.