The Triad is here.

[fred]

Feel free to discuss what you think about the new update! (Coming to EU as soon as it's uploaded by Mille..don't you worry Europeans)

[ypmagic]

Feel free to discuss what you think about the new update! (Coming to EU as soon as it's uploaded by Mille..don't you worry Europeans)

1) So many new setups.

[kyle1234513]

i replaced all mafia with triad equivalents. in otherwords just red to blue, because i like the color blue better.

it does offer more potential saves, but at the same time i feel like theres too many KPN

[ika]

i replaced all mafia with triad equivalents. in otherwords just red to blue, because i like the color blue better.

it does offer more potential saves, but at the same time i feel like theres too many KPN

if you look at how the built in saves are ballened it works out quite nicely

it all comes down to how you make the save if using customs

[Cryptonic]

i replaced all mafia with triad equivalents. in otherwords just red to blue, because i like the color blue better.

it does offer more potential saves, but at the same time i feel like theres too many KPN

that's why you should remove neutral killing.

[RLVG]

The best way of balance is to have a standard 2MA-2TR-1NE-1NB-9TO setup with the crime leaders vulnerable to attacks. In my opinion at least.

My own twist : Both leaders immune to detection, confirmed citizen in setup and Serial immune to detection.

[Cryptonic]

I'd do...

Mafioso
Rand Maf
Rand Maf
Dragon Head
Rand Triad
Rand Any (exclude maf/exclude triad/exlucde town/exclude killing)
9 Town

[Hypersniper]

not been on maf for ages so wtf is triad?

[Slaol]

I explained before that I will be building a sort of Rock Paper Scissors process into mine.
Mafia will be built to defeat Triad, but be easily detectable by Town.
Triad will be built to disrupt Town, but be vulnerable to Mafia at night.
Town will be built to find Mafia, but have trouble sifting through the Triad.

Godfather
Mafia Support
Mafia Random
Dragon Head
Triad Deception
Triad Random
Town Government
- no citizen
Town Killing
Town Power
Town Protective
Town Investigative
- no coroner
Town Random
Town Random
Town Random
Town Random

[Hypersniper]

thx and when wiki update for this

[Cryptonic]

I explained before that I will be building a sort of Rock Paper Scissors process into mine.
Mafia will be built to defeat Triad, but be easily detectable by Town.
Triad will be built to disrupt Town, but be vulnerable to Mafia at night.
Town will be built to find Mafia, but have trouble sifting through the Triad.

Godfather
Mafia Support
Mafia Random
Dragon Head
Triad Deception
Triad Random
Town Government
- no citizen
Town Killing
Town Power
Town Protective
Town Investigative
- no coroner
Town Random
Town Random
Town Random
Town Random

What prevents triads from killing mafia & deceiving them, while steam rolling town by being hard to detect?

[Killerd33]

at the moment i personally dont like the triad its just a second mafia helping to bring towns population to 0 but will wait and see if it grows on me i was hoping for new models but update is nice all in all

[42shadow42]

What prevents triads from killing mafia & deceiving them, while steam rolling town by being hard to detect?

Mafia killing them of course.

[Squidypie]

1) Why on earth was Dragon Head not night immune when gf was?
2) I'm not a fan of the Sk/MM detection immune option. Particularly when Sheriff already has a can't detect them option.
3) It would be nice if the log also had a coupld of buttons on top that let you go straight to a given day

Everything else is dandy as a lion

[ika]

1) Why on earth was Dragon Head not night immune when gf was? balance
2) I'm not a fan of the Sk/MM detection immune option. Particularly when Sheriff already has a can't detect them option. they dont have to be on
3) It would be nice if the log also had a coupld of buttons on top that let you go straight to a given day
wouldnt mind that although there is flither

Everything else is dandy as a lion

my thoughts on those

[ypmagic]

1) Why on earth was Dragon Head not night immune when gf was?
2) I'm not a fan of the Sk/MM detection immune option. Particularly when Sheriff already has a can't detect them option.
3) It would be nice if the log also had a coupld of buttons on top that let you go straight to a given day

Everything else is dandy as a lion

1) It's a new faction. If you have suggestions, do it in the Answer Hall and tell Rev that it needs to be an option and it's hated by a lot of people.
2) It's an option, not required for the game to start.
3) There are headers when each day passes "Day 1" "Night 1", and it might come in handy when scrolling down two pages.
-> If you reply saying that you're too lazy to scroll down two pages, there might be something wrong with you.

[Cryptonic]

Mafia killing them of course.

Yea, played 3 SotD in a row and every game: Mafia and Triads destroyed each other in 2 nights and then it was Town vs 1 scum for 1-2 nights.

Also @ Squidy, immune to detection for Investigator/Detective/Lookout was the main point of the change.

[Squidypie]

Yea, played 3 SotD in a row and every game: Mafia and Triads destroyed each other in 2 nights and then it was Town vs 1 scum for 1-2 nights.

Also @ Squidy, immune to detection for Investigator/Detective/Lookout was the main point of the change.

Were people complaining about detectives and lookouts who don't ignore det immunity being too strong?

Really for this to apply to them the ignore det immunity option has to already be off, so they're weak as heck before this goes into effect.

Are sheriffs disabled in saves where they can't detect anyone?

[Cryptonic]

Were people complaining about detectives and lookouts who don't ignore det immunity being too strong?

No, the problem was that GF had immune to detection & night immunity & a team and NK had night immunity

[Dark.Revenant]

1) Oversight on the setup. I'm fixing that. Immunity is, by default, on.
2) The option is off by default.

[Cryptonic]

I thought the idea was that neut killings were supposed to be at a disadvantage? I'm in favor of making neut killings achieve parity by being stronger, but for some reason stronger neut killing ideas are always shot down.
Detection immune seems like the worst way of trying to get this to happen. It's a single unseen box that will frequently ruin games once people start using their personal saves again.

Yes, you should have one or the other.
In terms of balance in a normal game, a Neutral Killing shouldn't have both detection immunity and night immunity.
In my opinion, at least.

[UltimaNecros]

Personally im going to try hosting a 2-2-Any-NB-9 setup
Dragon head (can kill, immune to RB, not immune at night)
Random Triad
GF (can kill, immune at night, not immune to rb)
Random mafia
Any random (cannot be maf/triad)
Nuet Benign
9 town

consort can detect block immune and triad blocker is block immune so they can counter eachother/find the other head
Sk isnt immune but kills RBers
Escort detects block immune but isnt block immune.
and some otther stuffs, Consig becomes GF but the Triad one just becomes enforcer.

[Slaol]

What prevents triads from killing mafia & deceiving them, while steam rolling town by being hard to detect?

1: Godfather: immune to night death. Dragon Head is immune to detection. Both being immune to role block.
2: Consort: detects Liaison and Dragon Head via immunity to role block. Liaison can not detect either Godfather or Consort.
3: Consigliere: Exact role allows Mafia to directly find "Citizens" as Dragon Head, and most accurate rip apart a Triad- as well as having a back up Godfather. Administrator will get the role pairings and have a harder time knowing when to strike against a Mafia.
4: Blackmailer: Basically a shit role, but Silencer will allow for speaking on stand. End result is that Mafia can not be blackmailed into not claiming. Triad can be shut up.
5: Agent: 0 cooldown. Mass information and ease to pick up the Triad killers. Vanguard has 2 nights.
6: Kidnapper: can jail Mafia allowing for a defensive maneuver to dodge a Triad kill. Interrogator can not do this.
7: Disguiser: Not cleaning the role will give the Mafia the knowledge that they have killed off a Triad. Informant will prevent even the Triad from knowing this. As well, the additional kill can kill a Dragon Head without killing a Godfather.
8: Framer: Can undo the Triad's immunity to detection. Forger has not offensive power against a Mafia that is already detectable.
9: Janitor: 1 charge of cleaning vs. Incense Master's infinite. The ??? benefit both factions, however the increase of ???s will harm that killing faction more than the other faction since they will not know if they eliminated an enemy or not.
10: Beguiler: 2 charges with alert on vs. Deceviers 4 charges with alert off that can target Triad. This is the 1 situation the Triad win. However, the Deceiver misdirect will be apparent in many cases as the Mafia can track their own feedbacks. Allowing the ability to push a lynch. Beguiler is flat out weaker, but unless the Deceiver nets them a kill before hand it won't do as well as against a Town.

Triad can still steam role potentially. Any save can go any direction, but the Organization with the buffs in Support over the buffs in Deception nets the majority of the advantage.

[WHITE BOY SLIM AYO]

Wow this sounds awesome, I can't wait to see this for myself when I get a time to play,

[UltimaNecros]

personally i feel like the trick to balance a triad+mafia save vs town is to have them have different options set, like where one side is immune to roleblocking the other is immune to attacks. one gets detect exact roles but the other is immune to detection. things like that. you want them both to be able to counter each other but you dont want one to counter the other in every way.

[Slaol]

personally i feel like the trick to balance a triad+mafia save vs town is to have them have different options set, like where one side is immune to roleblocking the other is immune to attacks. one gets detect exact roles but the other is immune to detection. things like that. you want them both to be able to counter each other but you dont want one to counter the other in every way.

I don't agree or disagree with your statement.
The reason I chose to give Mafia all of the advantages in a 1v1 scenario is that the Triad wins ties. As well, there will always be a Town in my setup making it a 3-way battle. Town > Mafia > Triad > Town > Mafia ...
The 3-way battle allows for any faction to win if they can dodge their weakness most effectively during the day chat. But at night the roles direct a general flow to the game that demands they both work to eliminate their kryptonite while maximizing their natural powers.
As well, the 2 faction voting blocks that make up 6/15 of the game give town an increased chance to mislynch, but they also will know for certain that no benigns exist. Allowing for Jester/Executioner/Survivor claims, both soft and hard, to be disregarded and seen as scummy. The villains are in danger during the day without their natural walls to hide behind, and as such must be effective at leading the town against their enemy to remain out of the light and in the lead.

[cattack]

Going to try this 3v3v1v8

Mafioso
Mafia Support
Mafia Deception
Enforcer
Triad Support
Triad Deception
Any random (neutral non killing and cult excluded)
Sheriff
Doctor
Jailor
Town Goverment (citi/mason excluded)
Town Investigative
Town Protection
Town Power (Spy excluded)
Town Killing

Both Mafia and Triad just mirror each other in abilities. No Godfather/Dragon Head made sure they can be killed by each other at night, allowing town victory. This is needed since there are already 2 groups of 3 mafia against them, allowing them to kill each other should counter them self out. Both can deceive and got a supporting role. I put in the confirmed Sheriff Doctor jailor cause those are solid roles that every town should have.

If any one thinks this setup is bad, feel free to suggest.

[UltimaNecros]

Chances of a 1v1 mafia and triad arent particulary high, which is why i give the mafia a kill advantage and the triad a invest/roleblock advantage. Thats just my view on it.

Also i use a Faction head+random for both mafia/triad and a neut benign then 9 town and a any random (nuet/town only)
Also if there are less town they have Less chance to mislynch a town (unless dominated by non townies) because odds say they are more likely to hit a evil.

[creedkingsx]

Going to try this 3v3v1v8

Mafioso
Mafia Support
Mafia Deception
Enforcer
Triad Support
Triad Deception
Any random (neutral only)
Sheriff
Doctor
Jailor
Town Goverment (citi/mason excluded)
Town Investigative
Town Protection
Town Power (Spy excluded)
Town Killing
.

I like this.
Having 9 town with 2 mafia is way OP.
It was different when it was 3-3-9 with neutrals being separate, but to expect mafia to play against a 9 town team, which was already op before, and another mafia is no bueno.

[Cryptonic]

I've already grown tired of a second mafia. Every game with both already ends up with them killing each other by day 3 and then it's town vs 1 scum. every time! D:

[fred]

Pubs need time to adjust.. i mean remember when Cult came out? It was every game -cult takes over and wins fast-

[UltimaNecros]

Pubs need time to adjust.. i mean remember when Cult came out? It was every game -cult takes over and wins fast-

It was also: no cult? CHOO CHOO!
In fact its like that everytime a new role comes. I remember people demanding 3 mm and rest town/mafia for games for almost 2 weeks or something.

[cxx]

Going to try this 3v3v1v8

Mafioso
Mafia Support
Mafia Deception
Enforcer
Triad Support
Triad Deception
Any random (neutral non killing only)
Sheriff
Doctor
Jailor
Town Goverment (citi/mason excluded)
Town Investigative
Town Protection
Town Power (Spy excluded)
Town Killing

Both Mafia and Triad just mirror each other in abilities. No Godfather/Dragon Head made sure they can be killed by each other at night, allowing town victory. This is needed since there are already 2 groups of 3 mafia against them, allowing them to kill each other should counter them self out. Both can deceive and got a supporting role. I put in the confirmed Sheriff Doctor jailor cause those are solid roles that every town should have.

If any one thinks this setup is bad, feel free to suggest.

I would build mine similarly, but with different town roles.

Also, Any Random should exclude killing and cult, as cult might force town roles to be ml, mason or cit.

Edit: I see, he already edited Any Random to exclude killing. =%

[Link]

setups like the one of cattack seems fine, i played today some games and it wasnt nice.

50% of hosts just pick sotd trollsave. its like the new conditioned reflex, if you dont have save you pick sotd... how about giving "random"-setups an advantage (increasing points) too? so if they dont have a save they could do a "normal" game by using the random-setup function, and beginning to like this way too?

other saves are mostly 2:2 triad/maf include the old liked setup with any random and neutral killing, so 3-4 killing roles n1, and thats mostly shit.. you cant enhance the old save with new faction roles, even if they are the mirror side of the mafroles, wtf? its decreasing the faction-advance of communication and unbalance everything by another killing role, town mostly got fucked by cult/amnesiac picking killing role (by any random) oO
i hope hosts will stop this 2:2 thing soon...

edit: oh not again... any random was cult btw...

Screenshot2013-09-21 21_21_22.jpg
i had to play this 8x times today... ._.

both faction group got nerfed (the opposite of creating the second faction, its about a communication advantage to infiltrate the town, not having a third killing role) and fight against each other and the game got speeded up... thats not the way to use triads... -.-

[cattack]

I would build mine similarly, but with different town roles.

Also, Any Random should exclude killing and cult, as cult might force town roles to be ml, mason or cit.

Edit: I see, he already edited Any Random to exclude killing. =%

Yes and now I also added your suggestion to it as well by excluding cult/witchdoctor from it as well. It was a good suggestion as it would probably break up town more then needed. I wonder though, how would you fill up 8 town roles? Would you keep the any random (non killing/non cultist neutral)

setups like the one of cattack seems fine, i played today some games and it wasnt nice.

50% of hosts just pick sotd trollsave. its like the new conditioned reflex, if you dont have save you pick sotd...

other saves are mostly 2:2 triad/maf include the old liked setup with any random and neutral killing, so 3-4 killing roles n1, and thats mostly shit.. you cant enhance the old save with new faction roles, even if they are the mirror side of the mafroles, wtf? its decreasing the faction-advance of communication and unbalance everything by another killing role, town mostly got fucked by cult/amnesiac picking killing role (by any random) oO
i hope hosts will stop this 2:2 thing soon...

edit: oh not again... any random was cult btw...

It's not just that they don't have a save. It feels like a new game with Triad being added to the game so going for the SotD setup is just trying things out before deciding they like it or not. That plus the fact it gives 50% extra points, which is a awesome bonus.

I really would like to try my save a couple of times but the problem I have with it now is that if some one leaves/drops then I would not know what I would remove to keep it balanced (if it is balanced to begin with).

The save is based on Sloal his save but I choose to not use the Dragon Head or the Godfather as part of it to prevent there being a tie where they are both immune to each other at night. This way they would have to keep the upper hand by killing the others at night.