TAKE: 1-S2-1-1699653, Jebediah: 1-S2-1-627766

[Fuuton]

ID: TAKE SC2 ID:- 1-s2-1-1699653
ID: Jebediah SC2 ID: 1-s2-1-627766

Take (WHITE BOY SLIM in game) and Jebedia (Google tm) in game.

Summary:

Take was spamming non-stop at the start. Eventually a random cit wanted him lynched for being annoyed and all town got him.

Didn't leave leads as det despite claiming he had a "siginificant lead" and left a stupid LW. His spam made the game too annoying to play and as a result everyone wanted him gone, making it difficult for the town since he was det.

Jebediah: My consigliere who did nothing entire game. Eventually there was a cross road between 4 and 12. I knew 4 was SK because I'd tried to kill him, but he said he was "Bd" and swapped with 12. It was legitimate and I wanted to get 12 lynched to gain towns trust because I could easily out the SK, and it wouldn't be long till I can kill enough to win.

12 gets put up, even with my vote, even tho I know he's mafia, and outs me as GF.

He never even investigated one person the entire game either.

[fred]

This report is assigned to Damus_Graves

[Damus_Graves]

The Sc2 IDs are correct

Both of these users grief the game in their own way. Take does so by spamming needlessly and causing all sorts of bad attention to befall him. He repeatedly claimed to have a viable lead on the scum and yet did not give out this information nor did he leave out a lw to give town a direction after he died. The Consig, Jebadia, is clearly in the game as he chose his name but he took no action nor did he attempt to assist his mafia team in any capacity, instead opting to AFK for some unknown reason.


Jebedia: { https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...=1-s2-1-627766 }

TAKE : None


Due to the previous offense of Jebedia I am recommended an increased watchlist while placing this report On-hold for Take.

[fred]

2x KV for jeb

[WHITE BOY SLIM AYO]

If TL;DR, please read the red parts. Thanks.

Hi mafia, I am “TAKE”, and I want to appeal because I do not think that I should have been reported at all. Before anything, I just want to say that I have an epicmafia (the forum mafia) background, and believe it or not, I stopped playing their variant due to the trolling. After downloading and seeing the replay for myself, I do not see anything that I don’t normally see in a typical mafia game. I have been playing sc2mafia for almost two years now, with the same exact style I have played on epicmafia, and I have never been reported (as far as I know), I’ve never pissed off a moderator (e.g. get bolted or warned or kicked), and honestly, I’d donate money to DR if I weren’t so broke.

Although it’s not written as a rule at all, I believe that part of the fun of mafia is to pretend to be someone you aren’t, and to create a figurehead as a player whenever you play the game. I don’t act the way I did here because I am town, I act this way with all roles. When people see my name, I want them to understand that I can be any role and I’ll still type and play the way I always do. I see this all the time with regular mafia players, and I think that being a nuisance (while still playing the game) is a new type of figurehead that we do not have enough of.

Now as I have mentioned previously, I quit epicmafia due to the immense trolling. However, a moderation of trolling will uplift a (in my opinion) very slow game. Mafia games are about 10-40 minutes long depending on the save. A laugh or maybe even a revenge kill at the START OF THE GAME is a fun way to begin. As in this replay, I generally type alot at the START OF THE GAME because:

1.) People tend to kill and target the person who is typing a lot (I actually have a huge bank of mafia replays).

2.) People tend to heal / bodyguard the person who is typing a lot (I’m finding this to be less true).

3.) The start of the game is pretty boring because no deaths, no thinking, just click.

So in a way, you could say that I am trying to reform the new mafia meta game by making people actually consider who they want to target on night 1. The reason why I do not think that my griefing is a real issue here is because no matter what the role I am, I always play to my win condition. I do not leave the game because I got doctor or witch, I play it through and usually stay in the game even after I’m dead night 1 (hence my crappy mafia record). As in the replay, it’s true that I said that I had an important lead (and I did not), but this was because I was going to get lynched if I did not provide anything useful for the town (with the mayor revealing himself). I did not leave a last will (even though I usually do if I were sheriff or investigator, if you want proof I can probably find several old replay before this report date where I left a “ns” last will and still typed a lot at the start), primarily because I do not think detective (which I believe is the weakest investigative role) is a strong enough role to leave a solid last will (I think you have to be really, really lucky). I did not attempt to hinder the town by misleading them(i don’t think at least) or by counteracting what another person said(i do try to do this if they are trying to lynch me). I typed what I usually type in mafia and they wanted me dead, so they got it. It’s one thing to grief, and another to grief with the intention of losing. I think that griefing with the purpose of losing is definitely considered to be bannable, however, in this case, it was just plain griefing. I get random lynched all the time, even in games where I don't type at all. They lynch me because I am Take, and I'm not annoyed at all by it. I don't report the 7 people who vote to lynch me at day one without any leads. I don't report the jailor who randomly executes me. Griefing (IMO) is what made mafia such a fun and unique game, and should never be considered to be a bannable offense (unless of course it obstructs the gameplay).

If you guys haven’t fallen asleep reading this long post, I am going to leave a replay I have saved of a game I played about 9 months ago, where I did the SAME exact thing in front of a moderator, but as godfather and won the game. Later, in the game the moderator types that “Take is annoying as hell, but at least he always plays to his win condition”. Not much has changed since then, and I do not intend to stop playing the style of mafia game I always have. If you guys are going to prevent me, then I will have to find a new hobby.



funny gf win.SC2Replay

Here is the screenshot of what the mod said, in case you don't feel like watching the replay. Also, if you want me to provide replays of games where I type "ns" as a sheriff/investigator and it will help my cause, then please ask. I just don't really feel like digging through so many random replays after typing all of this at the moment.

Attachment 13196

[Damus_Graves]

You were placed On-Hold Take. Not KV'd. This means that if you commit a crime in the future this report will be looked at and if the crimes are similarly based things get messier for you but otherwise its no biggie. I placed this On-Hold for you because its very borderline and as such needed more evidence to tell if trolling or griefing but I couldn't just ignore it outright.

[WHITE BOY SLIM AYO]

What's the chance of getting KV'ed while onhold?

[Damus_Graves]

What's the chance of getting KV'ed while onhold?

Nonexistant. You'd have to rolehack for that to happen.

[WHITE BOY SLIM AYO]

oh

[BostonCowboy]

I play with both of these guys on a regular basis, they aren't really known for trolling. Yes one may go AFK occassionally but this is a long time sometimes you need to go to the bathroom go have a cigarette feed a pet, any numerous things holding someone on a kick vote list for AFK is a bit rediculous and is just making the moderators of this game look a bit like rule nazi's. Take as far as spamming is concerned, well I've only seen him do that ONCE and it was because someone else was being a spamming little monkey for several games in a row. Sorry from a concerned player I believe this entire accusation should be appealed by both partied involved. They haven't done anything to DISTURB GAMEPLAY ON A MASSIVE LEVEL. Oh and note these two guys aren't even friends of mine just names I see in the game a lot. Thanks.

[jebediah26]

Hey guys sorry I do admit I did go afk on rare occasions, I know how annoying that can be but sometimes its unavoidable for me I work from home so sometimes I get a call from a customer and have to jump up and go... I figure its better for whatever team I am on (particularly the lower number teams like mafia) for me to just stay as opposed to leaving. Would the OP really have been happier if I left and mafia lost a few rounds earlier because they had lower numbers? I realize it would be better just to not join the game in the first place but I am always on the clock 24/7 and as such I cant exactly work around my schedule. This is partly a game of probability so someone extra doesnt hurt even if they dont do anything - though I admit that while it doesnt hurt, it certainly doesnt help either. But it only happens maybe a few times a month that I go afk in a game and when possible I try to stick around as long as possible to help my team...

Sorry if you guys dont like me personally but I dont think that should impact the decision here. Damus_Graves you say I grief the game in my own way but can you please explain how that is? Most people have fun with me when they play, I certainly dont spam and I personally despise spammers. People recommending me being kickvoted are not people I ever remember playing with... I play a lot of games of mafia so if you only hear from the small number of people I do piss off then you are bound to have a bad view of me. Everyone has people who dont like them but at the end of the day I have a lot of people I have fun playing the game with on a nightly basis that can testify that I am not a complete dick; even if I portray myself in that way sometimes. I find it fun to occasionally be uninhibitedly brash I try to stay off the forum because I understand I have a different mindset then most of you and I dont want to cause troubles... I just want to enjoy playing the game. Cheers

[SuperJack]

jebediah is not just on the kickvote list because of AFK. He had previously gamethrown and hence the kick vote is a combination of gamethrow and afk.

And it appear to the viewers that in this game he was not afk to start with.

How would you feel if it was a 2 maf vs 1 sk vote. But your mafia friend was afk?

The reports are not affected by personal feelings, they just follow punishment guidelines.

[BostonCowboy]

Thats right, so essentially what you're saying is that if I go AFK because my wife is having a heart attack in the next room, and I'm 1 of two remaining mafia over SK, then I'm going to be put on the kick-vote list? Right this makes sense, things happen outside of this game that effect playing the game. Essentially the message your giving me right now is as simple as "Don't save the drowning baby keep playing or we're going to ban you"....Not trying to sound crude here but I'm being bluntly honest. I don't think this decision is right.

[AppleyNO]

Thats right, so essentially what you're saying is that if I go AFK because my wife is having a heart attack in the next room, and I'm 1 of two remaining mafia over SK, then I'm going to be put on the kick-vote list? Right this makes sense, things happen outside of this game that effect playing the game. Essentially the message your giving me right now is as simple as "Don't save the drowning baby keep playing or we're going to ban you"....Not trying to sound crude here but I'm being bluntly honest. I don't think this decision is right.

We don't KV people for the first, or usually second, AFK game.

Anyway, if you wife has a heart attack, I doubt you would be playing SC2mafia.
Why are you playing SC2mafia near a pool? It takes that long to save a drowning baby? Where are the parents?

Marked Audit for Jebediah

[SuperJack]

BostonCowboy. You are not ment to post here, since this is not your report. If you wanted to add anything send it in PM to the keeper.

Plus we can't tell why people are AFK. They could be point farming. Hence why the reports are made, and they can come in and give their defence and reasons which sets the report for audit.

And again, he has a previously gamethrown. Which made it to kick-vote. If he had only ever been AFK once, it would of either been put on hold or watchlisted.

[Gerik]

Thats right, so essentially what you're saying is that if I go AFK because my wife is having a heart attack in the next room, and I'm 1 of two remaining mafia over SK, then I'm going to be put on the kick-vote list? Right this makes sense, things happen outside of this game that effect playing the game. Essentially the message your giving me right now is as simple as "Don't save the drowning baby keep playing or we're going to ban you"....Not trying to sound crude here but I'm being bluntly honest. I don't think this decision is right.

This is why we always check a player's previous offenses before deciding punishment. If someone has a clean record and they go afk for a game, we might put the report on-hold. And even if we don't put it on-hold, the most severe punishment we'll give for being afk is a watchlist, which doesn't really affect gameplay and goes away in a couple weeks if no further crimes are committed.

Our system of punishment is designed to have the largest effect on serial offenders. So unless your wife regularly has heart attacks or babies make a habit of drowning in your home, this shouldn't be an issue.

[jebediah26]

jebediah is not just on the kickvote list because of AFK. He had previously gamethrown and hence the kick vote is a combination of gamethrow and afk.

And it appear to the viewers that in this game he was not afk to start with.

How would you feel if it was a 2 maf vs 1 sk vote. But your mafia friend was afk?

The reports are not affected by personal feelings, they just follow punishment guidelines.

What gamethrowing? In the past? You put me on the gamethrow list then I stopped gamethrowing. Isnt that the point? The other report you cite in this forum is from MAY. Thats 3 1/2 months ago, between then and now I have been on the gamethrow list and now I am off it and I am still not gamethrowing.

Whats the point of these lists? Isnt the point to serve as a punishment so people are keeping an eye out for you? Isnt it to DETER this behaviour? If I am being punished for things I did in the past, but am no longer doing, how is that fair? Do you have any recent reports of me gamethrowing? Unlikely, because I havent gamethrown in a long time.

Its really kind of silly putting me on a kickvote because in the PAST I gamethrew... if this is your logic, then just instantly ban anyone who goes on gamethrow list... they are sure to mess up in the future, go afk, or accidently lose for town through a genuine mistake, and get reported like I have and get kick voted... there really should be a statute of limitations on these old reports...

We don't KV people for the first, or usually second, AFK game.

Anyway, if you wife has a heart attack, I doubt you would be playing SC2mafia.
Why are you playing SC2mafia near a pool? It takes that long to save a drowning baby? Where are the parents?

Marked Audit for Jebediah

You dont KV for first AFK game but this is the only game I see me being reported on? There have been like 2 games I had to leave in the middle of that I can remember...

And dude, I live in Arizona, everyone has pools in their backyards here, I know people who play this game who are of age to BE the parents. Not everything is for everyone as it is for you... please try to put yourself in other people's shoes...

Drowning babies are not a real reason to go afk, but thats not the reason I gave either. I do work from home and sometimes I have to go. Its my employment and I need that money to live.

AGAIN I will say, it came down to 2 maf vs sk, YES thats true, BUT if I left earlier, mafia probably would have lost WAY earlier anyways. Its a lesser of two evils thing, EITHER WAY I HAD TO GO, I dont think OP would have been happier if I -suicided or just quit... maybe he wouldnt have reported because if I left instead of afking, mafia would have lost probably a couple rounds earlier. I figured it was better to keep the odds in their favor by being a "warm body" so to speak. Sorry it happened but really, it happens sometimes, thats life...

BostonCowboy. You are not ment to post here, since this is not your report. If you wanted to add anything send it in PM to the keeper.

Plus we can't tell why people are AFK. They could be point farming. Hence why the reports are made, and they can come in and give their defence and reasons which sets the report for audit.

And again, he has a previously gamethrown. Which made it to kick-vote. If he had only ever been AFK once, it would of either been put on hold or watchlisted.

PREVIOUSLY gamethrown. I really can not stress how silly it is to kick vote someone for something they did MONTHS ago. That was seriously 1/4 a year ago, I have stopped game throwing now and there are TONS of people who can vouch for me. Why stay on the forum and insist I am an asshole gamethrower? Why not log in to SC2 and ask some people who are on late at night (the times of day I play) what they think of me and if they want me kick voted. Surely some will because there are tons of trolls out there but most wont. Most have fun with me and I have some fans out there...

And that brings me to another point, you guys say trolling is allowed, then kick vote me for gamethrowing.

When I play to MY win condition, but just have fun messing with people's minds in the game (this IS a game of psychology after all) then why is that game throwing? I consider that trolling, and that is said to be allowed.

And its kind of ridiuclous you dont let other people post here... hes just making an accurate observation.

This is why we always check a player's previous offenses before deciding punishment. If someone has a clean record and they go afk for a game, we might put the report on-hold. And even if we don't put it on-hold, the most severe punishment we'll give for being afk is a watchlist, which doesn't really affect gameplay and goes away in a couple weeks if no further crimes are committed.

Our system of punishment is designed to have the largest effect on serial offenders. So unless your wife regularly has heart attacks or babies make a habit of drowning in your home, this shouldn't be an issue.

Okay, let me just summarize.

1. In the past I gamethrew, got on gamethrow list
2. Stopped gamethrowing because its fun to try to win too, I even got my "all roles" achievement and a few others I am proud of because I was taking it somewhat seriously - I was serious about winning, and about having fun
3. Many months go by where I play hundreds and hundreds of straight, no-gamethrow, fun games
4. I am playing a game and get a call and have to leave
5. Because I went afk you look at the past when I gamethrow (despite me NOT being on gamethrow list now, likely for a REASON), looking particularly at a game a long time ago before I was on gamethrow list the first time (possibly even a game that ALREADY got me on game throw list once, meaning I have already been punished for it, and now am being punished for the same crime twice), and despite me having stopped gamethrowing between then and now, you cite that as proof that I today gamethrow and grief?


Again I dont recognize ANY of you mods. What about a jury of my peers?
Sorry you do not like me PERSONALLY but your personal opinion of me should have no influence on determining if I am gamethrowing or worthy of being kickvoted. MOST people enjoy playing with me, I have HUNDREDS of legit games recently that you are overlooking... for what? Because I had to go AFK once and IN THE PAST I gamethrew?

I gamethrew more when I was on gamethrow list then any other time. When you make criminals of people, they act like criminals. It really is a matter of "well I am already on the gamethrow list, may as well gamethrow" ...at THIS POINT IN TIME I am not on gamethrow list and ALL my recent games have been legit. I even have many saved replays to vouch for this.


Seriously guys this is a terrific game and its a lot of fun but you guys do not need to rule this game with an iron fist, this community is VERY good at self-moderating and keeping each other in check. Everyone plays this because we want to have fun, what makes it less fun is worrying about being banlisted just for joking around with people. If you dont mind trolling then you shouldnt kick vote me because trolling is all I do, I still play to my win condition. Or change the rules to say you dont allow trolling... at the very least you should get on and actually talk to people. Everyone occasionally pisses that ONE guy off, but if hes one guy compared to hundreds that enjoy playing with you, is it right to kickvote because of that ONE guy?



I attached a replay of me winning hard and one of me being mad a jester almost lost town the game... I dont gamethrow guys, seriously, why not moderate hands-on by playing some games with me to determine if I cheat instead of just looking at one replay from over 3 months ago and a replay where I had to go afk... and attached my sick bus driver win, that was just a couple days ago...

Heck I was even marshall in a game town got flawless victory in... I killed all the evils for the town, gave a bunch of people a hard to get achieve, and I am a "gamethrower"???

WITCH WIN.SC2Replay
LOL.SC2Replay
bd lol!!!.SC2Replay

I think if anything the moderation system for this game needs to be looked at. I am really curious what Blizzard would say about you guys banning people from playing your map. Banning people in this way breaks literally the first rule in the TOS. I have not reported it to Blizzard yet but you guys have to be aware of the fact that this mechanism is directly against Blizzard rules... -kickvoting would also be included in this.
https://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company...table-use.html
Not to mention #7 donators still getting special status...

Just saying guys, if you want to enforce these strict rules you put in place, maybe you should follow the rules to the game you are playing. It is after all a Starcraft 2 game first and foremost.

[SuperJack]

The only reason you got put on the kick-vote list is because of the gamethow 3 months ago, pluss the new AFK.

When punishments have gone 3 months without incident, they do not count towards new reports. But your punishment for gamethrowing started on July 1st, 2013, 11:42 AM. Hence it is still valid towards new reports.

I play in EU, so you won't of seen me.

The report has been marked for Audit previously, which means a Veteran Staff Member, will have a close look at it.



What I'm trying to say is, the keeper followed the system for reviewing the report.
You come along, and you have stated your point.
It's set for Aduit. And Will be looked at.

[Raptorblaze]

Blizzard has reviewed the map numerous times and has taken no issue with the moderation system in place. Their ToS implies the map must be originally publicly available (and it is), you only lose access if you demonstrate game-breaking behavior and even then it is temporary 99% of the time (most perma-bans are 3rd party hacking convictions which blizzard prohibits as well).

Also, AFKing is not banned. The part we punish is when you being AFK causes you to gamethrow by inaction. You are free to leave your computer at will but it means you still have to take responsibility for your actions.

Appeal Denied.