M-FM XIX The Curse of Castle Varen Gamethread

[Tommy Calhoun]

people's time*

[Laura Vanderbooben]

I agree with pressure on Sidney. His posts really show quite big self-awareness, as if he wanted to desperately pass as Town. L-4 is enough in my opinion, I'm going to wait for his response.

Martin Sugar has one good point: a lot of users suddenly activated to show contribution. I disagree with his attempt to change target of this pressure. For now we should focus on Sidney.

I will turn my invisibility off. I would like to mention that I have very erratic lifestyle: just because you see me doesn't mean I see you. Please don't use my activity here as some kind of scum indicator.

[Pete Pendelman]

Yo Pete is in tha house I'm not a pressurising person I hammer or follow a non pressure lynch train for good reasons I disliked the pepper train a lot.
The Huffman train I don't care about unless I need to hammer/help lynch train etc

[Elisha Wilkner]

And this couldn't have worked on Pepper too?

And you "didn't agree with it"... is this because Pepper is in your Mafia?

Your opinions have been flip flopping all day.





And yes, I can read... otherwise I wouldn't be able to know what I am typing.

Insults don't help with making you look town.

I saw no reason at all to pressure Pepper whereas Sidney has posted so little and only trollish posts that we are bound to find out what he intends to do. By pressuring Pepper we would have most likely a continuation of his playstyle whereas we would force Sidney to reveal his true playstyle most likely.

The other two quotes are taken out of context.
The first one is when questioned about early voting. I couldn't care less about what happened at that time.

The second quote is when I was asked what we do today. We pressure. If you would've read my posts then you would've noticed that we may aswell push without voting, cases such as Pepper for example where I don't see a reason to vote.

Sidney however warranted a vote.


Taking quotes out of context doesn't help with making you look town.

scrub

[Charles Bronson]

So... your reason to vote me is that I voted Charles for spamming the forum, which deflects attention from the main topic and wastes people times who have to read a dozen, double posts with no content?

Solid argument. Please lynch me.

I was wasted last night. Try to disregard the first few posts I made.

[Martin Sugar]

So... your reason to vote me is that I voted Charles for spamming the forum, which deflects attention from the main topic and wastes people times who have to read a dozen, double posts with no content?

Solid argument. Please lynch me.

Strawman.

Confirm Vote

[Dr Jordan Edilstein]

Yo Pete is in tha house I'm not a pressurising person I hammer or follow a non pressure lynch train for good reasons I disliked the pepper train a lot.
The Huffman train I don't care about unless I need to hammer/help lynch train etc

So tell me how similar this is to your plan...

1: Don't contribute.
2: Hammer whenever possible.
3: Avoid pressuring people.
4: Do nothing other than what is stated on this list.

[Pete Pendelman]

Oh I also don't like the Thomas train

[Charles Bronson]

I was wasted last night. Try to disregard the first few posts I made.

Like a "Its not weird, don't make it weird. There is no I in orgy." kind of wasted.

[Martin Sugar]

Oh I also don't like the Thomas train

There is no Thomas train. I am only voting Thomas.

Reasoning why?

[Pete Pendelman]

So tell me how similar this is to your plan...

1: Don't contribute.
2: Hammer whenever possible.
3: Avoid pressuring people.
4: Do nothing other than what is stated on this list.

5: use my night action

But I'm not going never contribute I will maybe 1 every 259 posts or so

[Charles Bronson]

Oh I also don't like the Thomas train

That was a pretty quick defense on a 'train' that doesnt exist.
Someone has a buddy

[Dr Jordan Edilstein]

I saw no reason at all to pressure Pepper whereas Sidney has posted so little and only trollish posts that we are bound to find out what he intends to do. By pressuring Pepper we would have most likely a continuation of his playstyle whereas we would force Sidney to reveal his true playstyle most likely.

The other two quotes are taken out of context.
The first one is when questioned about early voting. I couldn't care less about what happened at that time.

The second quote is when I was asked what we do today. We pressure. If you would've read my posts then you would've noticed that we may aswell push without voting, cases such as Pepper for example where I don't see a reason to vote.

Sidney however warranted a vote.


Taking quotes out of context doesn't help with making you look town.

scrub

Actually I did notice you saying pressure with words, but words without actions do what exactly? I doubt anyone with an IQ higher than their current age would care. Also saying someone is bad or a "scrub" is an attempt to make them look less competent so fewer people listen to them.

[Tommy Calhoun]

I was wasted last night. Try to disregard the first few posts I made.

Yeah, I noticed. That's why I unvoted you as soon as I logged in, after seeing that you were actually contributing now.

[Dr Jordan Edilstein]

And here comes some sarcasm/further insults from a specific person.

[Charles Bronson]

5: use my night action

But I'm not going never contribute I will maybe 1 every 259 posts or so

Your grammar is atrocious.

[Pete Pendelman]

Lol I meant I don't like the vote on tommy and I never ever buddy EVER

[Dr Jordan Edilstein]

5: use my night action

But I'm not going never contribute I will maybe 1 every 259 posts or so

Claiming PR, always a great idea.

[Charles Bronson]

Claiming PR, always a great idea.

I'll claim Power Role if that's what you're into.

[Pete Pendelman]

Then you might know who i am lol

But I'm on iPod I don't care about my grammar on the Internet forums like this

[Max Jets]

Yeah, im also a PR. Don't kill me tonight please!

[Dr Jordan Edilstein]

I'll claim Power Role if that's what you're into.

[Tommy Calhoun]

Well, I'm heading out to check the island.
Don't go over L-3 before giving Sydney a reasonable time to reply.

[Martin Sugar]

Lol I meant I don't like the vote on tommy and I never ever buddy EVER

Why?

[Elisha Wilkner]

And here comes some sarcasm/further insults from a specific person.

scrub


Everyone here should realize that pressure with words is pretty dangerous seeing as we can easily pile votes on someone during a time where many people are active. Someone who does not comply will stay on the scum list. I don't see how pressure with words could fail except for a situation in which the people forgot how to vote.

Also, insults are just my thing.

[Dr Jordan Edilstein]

scrub


Everyone here should realize that pressure with words is pretty dangerous seeing as we can easily pile votes on someone during a time where many people are active. Someone who does not comply will stay on the scum list. I don't see how pressure with words could fail except for a situation in which the people forgot how to vote.

Also, insults are just my thing.

Because why would the person bother responding if there is no imminent threat of death? If you use words to hunt, and then put votes on them later if they seem scummy, what difference does it make of putting the votes on them in the first place?

[Elisha Wilkner]

Because why would the person bother responding if there is no imminent threat of death? If you use words to hunt, and then put votes on them later if they seem scummy, what difference does it make of putting the votes on them in the first place?

No response = lynch

easy as pie

what is so hard to understand about this?

With word pressure we can get reactions from several people at the same time. Doesn't work later in the game but very useful in the beginning and we can use the reactions later as an additional help for analysis of certain players.

[Pete Pendelman]

I don't like the vote on to my because it was so sudden and he doesn't need pressure on him and his posts to me are not scummy in any way more town sided then anything

[Pete Pendelman]

*tommy

[Charles Bronson]

Guys, Elisha is pushing pressure AND HAS VOTED. Stop fighting over who pressures lurkers the better way.

[Dr Jordan Edilstein]

No response = lynch

easy as pie

what is so hard to understand about this?

With word pressure we can get reactions from several people at the same time. Doesn't work later in the game but very useful in the beginning and we can use the reactions later as an additional help for analysis of certain players.

Put votes on them, no response = easy lynch.

Is still works both ways, yet one simply takes less time since the votes are already in place.

[Ricky Spanish]

Sup. I'll have an avatar later.

I have a theoretical question for anyone else who is here: If you explicitly label a vote as pressure, does that not eliminate the possibility of pressuring that player? Knowing a vote is only pressure will not provoke as much of a reaction as thinking a vote is a lynch vote... Right?

[...]I doubt anyone with an IQ higher than their current age would care. Also saying someone is bad or a "scrub" is an attempt to make them look less competent so fewer people listen to them.

Hiya scum

[Ricky Spanish]

Lol ninja'd, Edilstein explained it

[Elisha Wilkner]

Put votes on them, no response = easy lynch.

Is still works both ways, yet one simply takes less time since the votes are already in place.

You just ignored the other point I listed: Having several targets we pressure at the same time.
One method we get one target lynched faster. Other method we have several targets we want to potentially lynch. Get it? Get it? Get it?

Not that it matters, you can do as you see fit.

[Dr Jordan Edilstein]

Guys, Elisha is pushing pressure AND HAS VOTED. Stop fighting over who pressures lurkers the better way.

I've noticed, but I am trying to figure out why I didn't even see any "word pressure" on Pepper from him. He just dismisses it and continues on. Even if he didn't find him scummy at the time, from past FMs we have seen that it is the more pro-town looking players that have ended up being scum.

[Ricky Spanish]

Actually my question still stands. What if someone DOES show up but doesn't react as much as they would have not knowing a vote is pressure?

[Elisha Wilkner]

I've noticed, but I am trying to figure out why I didn't even see any "word pressure" on Pepper from him. He just dismisses it and continues on. Even if he didn't find him scummy at the time, from past FMs we have seen that it is the more pro-town looking players that have ended up being scum.

So what information would you have expected from Pepper? I saw no benefit in pressuring him.

Sidney on the other hand, we know nothing about his opinions and views. I see a lot of benefit in pressuring him.

That make it easier for you, stupid?

[Elisha Wilkner]

Actually my question still stands. What if someone DOES show up but doesn't react as much as they would have not knowing a vote is pressure?

It could be that it's not satisfactory because the person doesn't give as much information as liked in which case the person is getting lynched more often than not.

[Lestat de Lioncourt]

I would vote him for the suggestion of lynching Charles because he had a small chance of being neutral or something.

Or because of this post

What post number was the post that you're referring to in the first part?

I dislike the Huffman wagon. Sure, it's for pressure, but it gives an easy excuse for scum to appear active when they're really just tossing their vote around and not scumhunting.

Here's a live one.

-vote Tommy Calhoun

Ten points to anyone who can figure out the reason why.

FoSes someone, waits for someone else to explain it.
I'm not discouraging your FoS, just sayin you're Hitler.

[Rashid]

Like a "Its not weird, don't make it weird. There is no I in orgy." kind of wasted.

There IS an I in orgies, however. So I guess if it's not your first rodeo, you have a reason to care more about yourself during it? Wait, nah, turns out whether or not a word has an I in it has no relevance to how self-involved the word is.

I find It interesting that no one seems to have noticed that we CAN lynch right now, today.

Day One will be a majority vote at the very beginning.

Just saying.

Because why would the person bother responding if there is no imminent threat of death? If you use words to hunt, and then put votes on them later if they seem scummy, what difference does it make of putting the votes on them in the first place?

I'm responding to you right now, and there are no votes on me, no imminent threat of death. Are people only allowed to talk in this game if they have votes on them? Is a lynch train going to be our object that we pass around that designates who is allowed to speak, so everyone can speak their part in turn? I think this game is better suited for a more open discussion, where everyone is allowed to talk at any time during the day, don't you think?

What are the votes on Sydney supposed to do, just "make him talk"? What would you like him to say? "Sorry guys, I'm not scum, try training someone else?" If you have a question that you want him to answer, ask it. If he doesn't answer it but posts in the thread so you know he's here and thus should have read it, ask it again, and if it seems scummy enough that he's avoiding your question, ask why he's avoiding it, and throw a vote in for good measure if you want, for visibility and to enforce your point. Votes in pressuring are meant to show that you are serious in your accusations against someone, and thus enticing them to give explanations for some thing. "Hurr durr let's pressure this guy -vote this guy" does nothing, and allows scum to sheep in and do the same thing to make the illusion that they are participating in active scum-hunting.

No, I'm not going to put my vote on Sydney. He is already L-4. No, I'm not defending Sydney. He needs to talk more, sure. So let's ask him a question and give him something to talk about, eh?

I'll start. Hey Sydney, why do you feel the need to subtly insinuate that you are a Thrill Seeker and thus throw an open invitation for other thrill seekers to buddy with you? Why haven't you posted more? What do you think the roles list might look like, and why?

[Dr Jordan Edilstein]

So what information would you have expected from Pepper? I saw no benefit in pressuring him.

Sidney on the other hand, we know nothing about his opinions and views. I see a lot of benefit in pressuring him.

That make it easier for you, stupid?

Do you know anything about Pepper? If you pressure Sidney because you don't know his pressure and views then why not on someone else? Sure he posted some opinions, but those opinions are things everyone already knows. So basically his contribution is the same as someone such as Sidney, or Pete.

[Lestat de Lioncourt]

Sup. I'll have an avatar later.

I have a theoretical question for anyone else who is here: If you explicitly label a vote as pressure, does that not eliminate the possibility of pressuring that player? Knowing a vote is only pressure will not provoke as much of a reaction as thinking a vote is a lynch vote... Right?

Knowing there's pressure on you puts more pressure on you

[Elisha Wilkner]

Do you know anything about Pepper? If you pressure Sidney because you don't know his pressure and views then why not on someone else? Sure he posted some opinions, but those opinions are things everyone already knows. So basically his contribution is the same as someone such as Sidney, or Pete.

I will quote Rashid because he prepared these questions already.

Hey Sydney, why do you feel the need to subtly insinuate that you are a Thrill Seeker and thus throw an open invitation for other thrill seekers to buddy with you? Why haven't you posted more? What do you think the roles list might look like, and why?

Sydney made himself especially suspicious whereas Pepper has already shared a bit about his opinions.

[Elisha Wilkner]

What post number was the post that you're referring to in the first part?

-vote Charles Bronson

15% chance of him being a neutral.
If he's a neutral, there's an 8.3% chance that he's a jester.
So... there's less than 1% chance of he actually being the jester he's playing.

This

[Pete Pendelman]

This game is gonna be along one I don't like dr badasses behaviour(posts) but that's just me

[Ricky Spanish]

It could be that it's not satisfactory because the person doesn't give as much information as liked in which case the person is getting lynched more often than not.

I'm thinking of a situation where a player has nothing to give us anyway. If he thinks he's gonna be lynched, he might freak out and show himself to be scum. If he sees it as pressure, he might not react in that way and we wouldn't learn as much from his death.

Knowing there's pressure on you puts more pressure on you

Disagree. IMO, thinking you're about to be lynched puts more pressure on you. Knowing that there's pressure on you is different from thinking you're about to be lynched.

[Lestat de Lioncourt]

The numbers Thomas uses is based off a spectator's view, as a player's view would only have 19 other roles.
So for my post, we're going to assume Thomas was picking numbers off a spectator view.

3/20 roles are Neutral
"15% chance of him being Neutral"
WOW!!!!

I thought the percentage was based off how Neutrally he was acting, turns out Thomas was just using basic division to poop a number.

"8.3% of him being a Jester if Neutral"
Again, basic division to poop a number.
BUT THERE ARE ONLY 11 NEUTRAL ROLES. SO YOU CAN'T HAVE 1/12.

Anyways these numbers mean absolutely fucking nothing and seem like fake contribution

[Ricky Spanish]

It won't work as most imagine it because it simply doesn't on the first day. People aren't stupid enough to not answer which results in getting themselves lynched just through pressure, getting my point?

I'm reading this as saying you don't think pressure can work today and is useless. Is that your intent? If so, why are you voting?

[Elisha Wilkner]

I'm thinking of a situation where a player has nothing to give us anyway. If he thinks he's gonna be lynched, he might freak out and show himself to be scum. If he sees it as pressure, he might not react in that way and we wouldn't learn as much from his death.

Every player should be able to give out reads on people. This usually happens after we pressure. Most scum give our reads that aren't from a town POV but from their scum POV which exposes them as scum. (ofc they don't do it intentionally but they are having trouble putting themselves in a town POV under pressure)

[Lestat de Lioncourt]

Disagree. IMO, thinking you're about to be lynched puts more pressure on you. Knowing that there's pressure on you is different from thinking you're about to be lynched.

Pressure votes can easily turn into lynch votes.
If you dismiss pressure because it's just pressure and half-ass replies, you'll probably be considered for lynch.
If you're about to be lynched, you better give a good answer to stay alive.

No person benefits from half assing replies when under pressure anyways, except Jester/Ghost.