S-FM 88 : Containment

[NoctiZ]

Porio's claim makes it easy to do the following: lynch citizen claimer, shoot creed, if creed dies by Titus' hand then we win because Joker false claimed citizen, if creed doesn't die then get Titus. If we still haven't won then think about better lynch targets.


I seriously hope that everyone now claimed their true alignment and role (except for the Joker ofc) so there is no confusion and we can think clearly about any plans.

Oh but if Titus doesn't shoot creed/creed doesn't die then that also means someone false claimed, hence everyone should have claimed their true alignment and role by now.

[clementine]

My lack of logic is result of me being newbie.

I don't suspect Porio, Creed is now 100% Joker. We just need to lynch some Survivor, so Guards can win. If you think I'm most scummy please vote me. I really don't want my first game to be a loss (especially if this would me my fault).

This is actually the worst defense you can make: claiming newness as a cover for your scumminess. I'll let it slide for now though since creed is 1v1 with Titus based on night actions.

Porio's claim makes it easy to do the following: lynch citizen claimer, shoot creed, if creed dies by Titus' hand then we win because Joker false claimed citizen, if creed doesn't die then get Titus. If we still haven't won then think about better lynch targets.


I seriously hope that everyone now claimed their true alignment and role (except for the Joker ofc) so there is no confusion and we can think clearly about any plans.

I agree. Although based on setup meta it makes sense in my mind that all the survivors are citizens who cannot visit and have auto vests because then Damus lols and makes the guards a vigilante and a veteran who can't even kill the citizens in one night.

Plus, titus/clem as guards + creed as joker... I can kinda see that being a thing if players were selected maybe roles were as well?

[creedkingsx]

dafuq happened LOL

who the fuck didn't claim their role? At least as far as not cit/escort?
Fuck a duck and shit on it sideways.

[clementine]

Faction assignments:
Updated.

Survivor
NoctiZ - citizen (claimed)
Dagaen - citizen (claimed)
poriomania - citizen (claimed)
RLVG (confirmed)

Guard
clementine - veteran (claimed)
Titus - vigilante (claimed)

Joker
creedkingsx (claimed survivor not cit not escort) - https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...l=1#post336460

Creed claim exact role now please.

[creedkingsx]

I would say inb4 titus is joker but only 2 people claimed guard.

[creedkingsx]

Detective.
NoctiZ went nowhere last night

[clementine]

@ creed, assuming Titus and I are both guards (since un-cc'ed) and assuming you are also telling the truth, someone must be false claiming citizen as doctor and the joker is false claiming citizen as joker. Out of the three citizen claimers, who would you assume is joker, who would you assume is doctor, who would you assume is citizen and why?

[creedkingsx]

Daegan as Joker, porio as doc

[clementine]

Detective.
NoctiZ went nowhere last night

What is your reasoning for following NoctiZ? This is just a bit strange to me since the Joker doesn't visit anyone and I thought NoctiZ had the highest chance of actually being cit, why did you not choose to follow Titus to confirm as vigilante?

[Titus]

-vote unvote

I am highly suspicious of creed now, but it's possible we have a pair of lying cit claimers... one as doctor and the other as joker.

I still think the best plan is to no vote the next two days while scumhunting. I'm not fully committed to that as my vote is not on skip though.

[Titus]

Daegan as Joker, porio as doc

To put my two cents in... NoctiZ as Joker and Porio as doc. It's easy to volunteer to be shot as joker. Not so much volunteer to be lynched.

[NoctiZ]

To put my two cents in... NoctiZ as Joker and Porio as doc. It's easy to volunteer to be shot as joker. Not so much volunteer to be lynched.

I didn't volunteer to be shot, I volunteered to die. ;)

[FM Ferengi]

-vote unvote

I am highly suspicious of creed now, but it's possible we have a pair of lying cit claimers... one as doctor and the other as joker.

I still think the best plan is to no vote the next two days while scumhunting. I'm not fully committed to that as my vote is not on skip though.

Do you think it is more likely creed is town and that there are two lying cit claimers or that there is just one liar here (creedkingsx). I still think today we lynch poriomania, tonight you shoot creed, creed visits me, I alert, and the next day we lynch Dagaen/Noctiz if the game has not yet concluded.

I'm still waiting to hear why creed tracked Noctiz instead of you last night. Don't you think it is a bit condemning that creed chooses to track a citizen claimer instead of tracking you to prove both of you as townies?

[NoctiZ]

Do you think it is more likely creed is town and that there are two lying cit claimers or that there is just one liar here (creedkingsx). I still think today we lynch poriomania, tonight you shoot creed, creed visits me, I alert, and the next day we lynch Dagaen/Noctiz if the game has not yet concluded.

I'm still waiting to hear why creed tracked Noctiz instead of you last night. Don't you think it is a bit condemning that creed chooses to track a citizen claimer instead of tracking you to prove both of you as townies?

This is spot on. Nothing to add to that.

[clementine]

Do you think it is more likely creed is town and that there are two lying cit claimers or that there is just one liar here (creedkingsx). I still think today we lynch poriomania, tonight you shoot creed, creed visits me, I alert, and the next day we lynch Dagaen/Noctiz if the game has not yet concluded.

I'm still waiting to hear why creed tracked Noctiz instead of you last night. Don't you think it is a bit condemning that creed chooses to track a citizen claimer instead of tracking you to prove both of you as townies?

Derp wrong account. I don't want to delete it for fear of modkill/warning.

Just so everyone is aware I accidentally posted with the wrong account.

[clementine]

This is spot on. Nothing to add to that.

If creedkingsx is detective and there are two lying cit claimers: one is cit, one is doctor, and one is joker out of you, poriomania, and Dagaen, who do you think is which and why?

[NoctiZ]

If creedkingsx is detective and there are two lying cit claimers: one is cit, one is doctor, and one is joker out of you, poriomania, and Dagaen, who do you think is which and why?

Well, it seems like I'm focusing on Dagaen I guess but I would tag Dagaen as Joker and Poriomania as doctor. Me being the citizen of course.

Dagaen has made some slips I have pointed out, whereas Poriomania has announced a switch of playstyle and it wouldn't surprise me if he lied about his role. Other than that he has posted a bit too little to judge more than that.

[Titus]

How about we no vote and I shoot Poriomania... then we have no shot of losing the game. If Porio is citizen, then he should vest. Doctor stays home. Creed visits Daegan just to confirm he's not the doctor.

[clementine]

If creedkingsx is detective and there are two lying cit claimers: one is cit, one is doctor, and one is joker out of you, poriomania, and Dagaen, who do you think is which and why?

Same question but addressed to Dagaen and poriomania, please.

[clementine]

How about we no vote and I shoot Poriomania... then we have no shot of losing the game. If Porio is citizen, then he should vest. Doctor stays home. Creed visits Daegan just to confirm he's not the doctor.

Titus the problem with your plan is this:

Titus shoots poriomania
poriomania is cit and autovests
creed visits dagaean to confirm not doc

Lynch Creed (joker)

End scenario is 3 survivors, 2 guards meaning that the guards (us) don't get the win.

[Dagaen]

But why would Doc false-claim Citizen? If we have Doc it is Porio who was too busy to read everything and maybe he doesn't know about our plan. If I was Doc I'd claim it, NoctiZ probably would do the same. We should wait for Porio.

For now I think Creed is a Joker, rest of us are Citizens. As I said: no reason to lie about being Doctor for me or NoctiZ.

[Dagaen]

Oh sorry, misread your question, assuming Creed is Detective that leaves NoctiZ as Joker.

[Titus]

We no vote twice. We still have the majority. The survivors can vote whoever, we no vote. If I'm wrong, porio is not the doctor... then

3 v 2 v 1

No vote again...

Joker (creed) cannot shoot all of the citizens.
He shoots me and one of the citizens

3 v 1 (problem) Joker will get lynched.... so Joker must keep me alive

Joker shoots two citizens

3 v 2 v 1 (both citizens autovest)

We have all damn day for me to shoot a citizen.

---

PRs claiming citizen is quite common Daegan. Evil roles don't want to kill the citizens first. They want to kill the PR roles.

[Dagaen]

It's Dagaen, not Daegan^^

I know it's common, but bounty has been placed and we have quite some time now. Joker can't really kill as he pleases, so coming clean with Doctor is quite safe. Especially if it helps us win after next night.

[Titus]

It's Dagaen, not Daegan^^

I know it's common, but bounty has been placed and we have quite some time now. Joker can't really kill as he pleases, so coming clean with Doctor is quite safe. Especially if it helps us win after next night.

That's why it's logical if there's a doctor at all, It's Poriomania and that you/NoctiZ is the Joker.

[Dagaen]

That's what I think too. Of course for now Creed is no. 1 Joker.

Oh well, going to sleep now, see you all in ~8 hours!

[clementine]

We no vote twice. We still have the majority. The survivors can vote whoever, we no vote. If I'm wrong, porio is not the doctor... then

3 v 2 v 1

No vote again...

Joker (creed) cannot shoot all of the citizens.
He shoots me and one of the citizens

3 v 1 (problem) Joker will get lynched.... so Joker must keep me alive

Joker shoots two citizens

3 v 2 v 1 (both citizens autovest)

We have all damn day for me to shoot a citizen.

---

PRs claiming citizen is quite common Daegan. Evil roles don't want to kill the citizens first. They want to kill the PR roles.

Explain to me again why the Joker must keep you alive? I'm not quite following your logic. Can you explain it like I'm 5?

[Titus]

Absolutely.

We no vote until Joker kills. I don't kill anyone.

That leaves 3 v 2 v 1.

Creed as joker Joker kills me and shoots one citizen
I die. The citizen autovests and therefore lives.

That leaves 3 survivors, 1 guard (Clementine) and the joker (creed).

The three survivors then vote to lynch creed.

Creed is dead and loses. The best he can hope for is Poriomania vegging and failing to lynch creed.

Creed is joker; shoots two citizens

Everyone is still alive because both citizens autovest.

We are in the same situation, but I can kill any citizen I want. I just have to be sure NOT to kill the joker. Then, we can lynch at will.

Someone else as joker

Doctor heals me. Joker cannot get kill all three survivors with two shots. It's impossible.

[Titus]

In our current scenario, the joker won't vote to lynch himself and the survivors don't have majority. So we can refuse to lynch until a citizen dies.

[clementine]

Absolutely.

We no vote until Joker kills. I don't kill anyone.

That leaves 3 v 2 v 1.

Creed as joker Joker kills me and shoots one citizen
I die. The citizen autovests and therefore lives.

That leaves 3 survivors, 1 guard (Clementine) and the joker (creed).

The three survivors then vote to lynch creed.

Creed is dead and loses. The best he can hope for is Poriomania vegging and failing to lynch creed.

Titus, if the three survivors vote to lynch creed then the game ends and only the survivors win since the guards don't have a controlling majority. I don't know if you missed this fact or if I'm missing something.

Creed is joker; shoots two citizens

Everyone is still alive because both citizens autovest.

We are in the same situation, but I can kill any citizen I want. I just have to be sure NOT to kill the joker. Then, we can lynch at will.

In this situation, you can't kill any citizen because the joker can only shoot two of the three citizens. Additionally, I feel like the joker would just kill both of us to ensure we don't win. (If he attacks you and me and I alert then I kill him and the game ends with us not winning). (If he attacks you and me and I don't alert then both guards are dead and we both end up not winning). How do you account for this scenario?

Someone else as joker

Doctor heals me. Joker cannot get kill all three survivors with two shots. It's impossible.

---

I don't see why your plan is any better than mine especially since it seems like we end up losing most of the time and it ends in a solo survivor win.

Titus, I think you are forgetting that the game ends when one faction meets its win condition. I already asked and Damus answered earlier in this thread. So some of your scenarios will end in a solo survivor win because we didn't eliminate enough survivors. This is why we have to lynch a survivor today.

I want to lynch Poriomania because he is afk and it will help "prove" that there is no doc so you should really just shoot creed at night and we can end it with a joint guard/survivor win.

[Titus]

The three survivors CANNOT vote to lynch creed. They need a fourth vote. 3 survivors =/= majority. There's a slim chance that Poriomania is indeed the joker. I'm not wanting to take chances right now.

The joker shooting me and leaving the survivors alive is moronic. The joker is playing to win as well. Yes, he could kill me and then shoot a citizen. That doesn't make sense though.

If Poriomania gets to L-1, I will hammer. If everyone seems to be in agreement, I am on board... but I don't think lynching is a smart play here. I'd rather shoot.

[clementine]

The three survivors CANNOT vote to lynch creed. They need a fourth vote. 3 survivors =/= majority. There's a slim chance that Poriomania is indeed the joker. I'm not wanting to take chances right now.

I was referencing the situation you said where the joker kills you and so it's 3 survivors v. 1 guard (clementine) v 1 joker. Basically the survivors would control the lynch at that point.

Poriomania cannot be joker. If she was joker then creed is confirmed detective meaning Noctiz did not visit anyone (did not heal creed) therefore Dagaen has to be the doctor. Do you think Dagaean, a confirmed new player who keeps asking and begging us to lynch him is actually a doctor even after he repeatedly confirms that he is only a citizen?

Or do you think that Dagaen is probably a citizen like he says he is. Poriomania is the safest lynch simply because she cannot be the joker.

The joker shooting me and leaving the survivors alive is moronic. The joker is playing to win as well. Yes, he could kill me and then shoot a citizen. That doesn't make sense though.

If the joker feels guaranteed to a 100% loss either way, I can see him taking out the guards just to ensure we don't win. I think if we no lynch 2 days in a row, he'll attack both guards so that we both lose with 100% certainty.

If Poriomania gets to L-1, I will hammer. If everyone seems to be in agreement, I am on board... but I don't think lynching is a smart play here. I'd rather shoot.

Titus, I am trying to understand why you don't want to lynch. It's much easier to eliminate out citizen claimers via lynch simply because they do not have autovests that prevent you from shooting them at night.

There are too many flaws with your plan of shooting people because it relies on the joker doing what we want him to do: attacking two different citizens, and not suiciding into the guards to force us to lose.

[Titus]

Your plan of lynching has just as many flaws. What if we lynch the wrong target? We autolose and bring it on ourselves. Before I can lynch any survivor, I'd need to be one hundred percent sure they are innocent. I cannot under any scenario see that. Perhaps we lynch tomorrow but today, I'm not bringing about our own loss.

[clementine]

Vote count right now should be at:
creedkingsx (1): Noctiz
poriomania (1): Dagaen

---

-vote poriomania

I'm not gonna hold my breath and wait for this guy to post.
clementine - Posts: 57
Titus - Posts: 37
Dagaen - Posts: 32
NoctiZ - Posts: 26
creedkingsx - Posts: 12
RLVG - Posts: 6
Poriomania - Posts: 6
Damus Graves - Posts: 5
Switzerland - Posts: 1

It deeply concerns me that Poriomania only has 6 posts, the same as a guy who was only alive in this game for 1 day. We can't scumhunt off his posts, so we should just lynch him since we need to get rid of a survivor claimer today anyway and he claims citizen that can't die to being shot at night without having to shoot through his autovest.

[clementine]

Your plan of lynching has just as many flaws. What if we lynch the wrong target? We autolose and bring it on ourselves. Before I can lynch any survivor, I'd need to be one hundred percent sure they are innocent. I cannot under any scenario see that. Perhaps we lynch tomorrow but today, I'm not bringing about our own loss.

Describe to me how it is possible for poriomania to be the jester.

[Titus]

Poriomania is joker and the doctor is NoctiZ/Daegan and is afraid I'll shoot their brains out if they claim.

[clementine]

Reasons why Poriomania CANNOT be the joker:

1. If poriomania is the joker, then creedkingsx and Titus are innocent.
2. If creedkingsx is innocent, then his claim of detective who targeted Noctiz who visited nobody is correct.
3. If Titus is innocent then her claim of vigilante who targeted creedkingsx is correct.
4. If Noctiz visited nobody, then Dagaen must be the doctor who healed creedkingsx from Titus's shot.

Therefore if I can prove that Dagaen is not the doctor then our assumption that poriomania is the joker must be incorrect.

Posts of Dagaen denying being the doctor. Do these posts sound like a doctor who is trying to hide as a citizen to you?

But why would Doc false-claim Citizen? If we have Doc it is Porio who was too busy to read everything and maybe he doesn't know about our plan. If I was Doc I'd claim it, NoctiZ probably would do the same. We should wait for Porio.

For now I think Creed is a Joker, rest of us are Citizens. As I said: no reason to lie about being Doctor for me or NoctiZ.

It's Dagaen, not Daegan^^

I know it's common, but bounty has been placed and we have quite some time now. Joker can't really kill as he pleases, so coming clean with Doctor is quite safe. Especially if it helps us win after next night.

That's what I think too. Of course for now Creed is no. 1 Joker.

Oh well, going to sleep now, see you all in ~8 hours!

[Titus]

-vote Poriomania

Ok you have convinced me enough. I still think D is smarter than you give him credit for. However, those posts together make it less likely he's pulling a gambit in his first game.

[NoctiZ]

I also agree on voting on Porio, but I will refrain from voting until shortly before the day ends.

[clementine]

-vote Poriomania

Ok you have convinced me enough. I still think D is smarter than you give him credit for. However, those posts together make it less likely he's pulling a gambit in his first game.

If you are worried about Dagaen being a hidden doctor, then here is what we can do:

Lynch Poriomania (check if porio flips doc)
Titus shoots Dagaen (will die and flip doc if he is fake claiming as citizen)
Lynch creedkingsx (if neither Dagaen nor poriomania flips doc since creed already proved NoctiZ cannot be doc due to detective results)

How is that Titus?

[Titus]

Sounds good to me.

[Poriomania]

It seems as if this is a bad time to waltz on in here.

So, is the game mostly solved?

Any questions you want me to answer before I bite the dust?

[Titus]

I take you do not claim doctor then Poriomania?

[Poriomania]

I am a citizen survivor.

I don't recall being a doctor.

[Poriomania]

Also, terribly sorry for my bad performance this game. A couple of bad days + work really put me through the grinder.

[Titus]

Ok I am out until the end of the night. Please lynch Poriomania if that's what we are going to do.

[Poriomania]

I would hammer myself if I could.

Hm.

-vote Poriomania

[clementine]

I would hammer myself if I could.

Hm.

-vote Poriomania

You're a bit of a funny one.... O.o

[Titus]

You're a bit of a funny one.... O.o

Ok not totally gone. I don't recall playing with you. Have we played together?

[Poriomania]

am I dead yet

Noctiz hammer, save me from this agony