This mod is dying? Mafia no longer in top 10 players!

[Brodersen]

This mod is dying they say?
Mafia no longer in top 10 players!

That makes some of us wonder why...

It also seems like development has stopped on the mod.

Drop in players and drop in development/patches usually goes hand in hand

When was the last time you saw a noticeable improvement? Many many months ago?

There are lots of things that could be improved, especially regarding the UI and setup process in pubs. Has the developers lost their passion?

[Lysergic]

The developer (singular) is DR, who is busy with real life. He hinted that some additional development might happen during his college winter break, but the general consensus is that development has pretty much stopped.

[EagleMan]

Yeah the development schedule pretty much aligns with university break schedule. So he'll have like 3 or 4 weeks for winter break between semesters, then summer break which is like 2-3 months. There's also spring break iirc that's only like a week, I get the same schedule as Rev since I go in the same college system as him and am in a nearby school, I just haven't really double checked what my own schedule is is.

[Mugy]

It's in 11th place, should stay there long enough for DR to start updating again.

[RLVG]

The thing is, even if it's not on Top 10, everyone will Bookmark it and everyone else will check Up & Coming to see Mafia.

It won't truly die, for a long while. With an update every few - it's kept alive.

[Lazers]

Good fucking luck to DR regarding updating the UI

from what I heard, it's a cobwebbed mess, with cobwebs on its cobwebs

[RLVG]

Good fucking luck to DR regarding updating the UI

Why is the UI a mess? Other then the auto-scroll up / auto-rewind LW?

a cobwebbed mess, with cobwebs on its cobwebs

Yo Dawg.

[Lysergic]

UI changes are unlikely from what I gather, pretty much because of what Lazers said.

@RLVG: The code in general is pretty screwy - at one point, the script was compressed, and that doesn't exactly help with manageability.

[Apocist]

Even if the script was compress, it would be common sense to be working with the uncompressed version.
So that shouldn't be an issue.

[Lysergic]

There isn't an uncompressed version. Certain parts of the script were run through a compressor. Other parts are not.

Having an "uncompressed" version would require rewriting all of the compressed parts and making it work with the parts that are already uncompressed.

[Ash]

top 10 players? you mean the top 10 game list?

if there were troll days more often, this wouldnt be happening

[Jim]

top 10 players? you mean the top 10 game list?

if there were troll days more often, this wouldnt be happening

Well since trolling/point hacking are serious offenses much of the people who were playing on SC2 stopped playing it. In my opinion point ban is the same as a real ban because I played daily until my pointban and I played 2 more games on that account after that, not fun at all when you can't pick name or anything. I am not saying its because over-modding but I think a good portion of the continuous players (trolls) have lost intrest because of many factors.

[Ash]

Well since trolling/point hacking are serious offenses much of the people who were playing on SC2 stopped playing it. In my opinion point ban is the same as a real ban because I played daily until my pointban and I played 2 more games on that account after that, not fun at all when you can't pick name or anything. I am not saying its because over-modding but I think a good portion of the continuous players (trolls) have lost intrest because of many factors.

well yes but they would return if they get informed of troll days happening more often.

troll days would allow trolls/any other criminal (maybe not hackers) to play the game regardless. but with the exception of giving them in-game mod powers, just like in April Fools.

[Apocist]

There isn't an uncompressed version. Certain parts of the script were run through a compressor. Other parts are not.

Having an "uncompressed" version would require rewriting all of the compressed parts and making it work with the parts that are already uncompressed.

I mean, DR shouldn't have compressed the script if he was going to use it again. Atm is looks like a garbled mess with variable names and methods named a/b/c/d/ect. I can't heads our tails of it.

It would have been smarter if he kept an original copy to work with and just uploaded the compressed script.

[Mugy]

I mean, DR shouldn't have compressed the script if he was going to use it again. Atm is looks like a garbled mess with variable names and methods named a/b/c/d/ect. I can't heads our tails of it.

It would have been smarter if he kept an original copy to work with and just uploaded the compressed script.

If he didn't compress it, we wouldn't have stuff like disguisers, cultists, amnesiacs and other stuff until patch 1.5

[Auckmid]

I miss Procyon

[Apocist]

If he didn't compress it, we wouldn't have stuff like disguisers, cultists, amnesiacs and other stuff until patch 1.5

Gehh...everyone is missing the point of me saying "keep and original file" that is uncompressed. Just give the compressed file to blizzard to bypass the script limit. You CAN have two separate files...it's called copy/paste...

[EagleMan]

I think you should look at the technical complexity of Mafia and then think about the reasons why DR would not have done such an apparently simple thing.

[Elixir]

I've seen the code of Mafia

I'm still recovering from psych therapy.

[Brodersen]

Sorry I don't know anything about the SC2 map editor, but I find it hard to belive that the game is so complex that further development seems "extremely complex".

If I was a SC2 map maker myself and knew how to code efficiently, I would even consider making a remake of Mafia!

Things I would add:

- A -lw button for newbies, so you don't need to ask and learn what LW is. Newbies will see the LW button in their UI and try to click it to learn about it quickly.

- Submitting a LW during night sequence (error) does not also close it, so you lose what you where writing.

- A small -pm button next to each player in the bottom right side window (if PM is enabled), again to help new players and for convenience when you have to write to many.

- Role list and Graveyard menus are expanded by default.

- Easy command to re-view the LW of a dead player. If player 13 was Lookout and died long ago, instead of having to scroll up in chat log to try to find his LW again you can write '-lw 13' to display it again.

- Mouse over a category like Town Protective shows which role Town Protective can possibly be.

- Redesign the town graphics. I suggest a small city or best would be a village. Each player has their own house and their characters walks into their house during night, and during morning all players still alive walks out and into the middle again to discuss. The players can upgrade their character model and houses with points.

- Remove the Russian Roulette game. It's boring for most players and does a bad job of keeping players in the game until the end.

- New Graveyard game to replace Roulette, would be to allow players to try to guess the roles of those still alive, and then earn or lose points when the live players roles are revealed (when they die or game ends). This would give graveyard players something to do throughout the rest of the game, and earn bonus points this way.

- To compensate for the graveyard game bonus points, I also suggest that live players earn a slight bonus for their actions as well. For an example a Doctor who heals someone earns maybe +1 or +2 points. Sherif earns +1 or +2 points when checking someone and getting message that they are not town. Vigilante and jailor could get +4 for killing a non-town and minus points for killing a town. Killing survivor/Amne gives 0 points.
These bonus points are only given at the end of the game, and not rewarded during gameplay (except minus points).

(Pro players probably don't care about points at this stage, so this is mostly to make the game more fun for the average/majority of mafia players. And to make playing well and successfully more rewarding, as well as compensate for the new graveyard game.)

- Instead of Custom Mode, the standard mode for public games should be Public Mode.
I would suggest that during startup in a Public games (and to avoid AFK host and tedious host selection process, and to get games started quickly), that all players instead vote on which setup to use, choosing between some popular 'COMMUNITY PICKS' or click on one of the players from the list to use that players setup.
This should make games much faster overall and avoid troll saves, AFK hosts, hosts trying to create new setups from scratch while 14 others wait, and many of the other reasons why games can often fail.

- Players can create or change their setup in Setup Mode.

- Players are given '+1 game played' to their stats during game start, so they can't just leave to avoid bad stats.

- Player stats are revealed during game start, for showoff. Players can however chose to reset their stats.

- Probably more if I think harder, but the main point is that the developers can indeed improve on this mod to make it into top 10 again. The tedious setup process is probably the biggest game fail/ragequit reason at the moment that scares away new players...

[Brodersen]

It's really getting hard to find players in mafia on EU
Some of us are waiting for hours, while others come and go. It really hurts not being in top10 anymore.

Anyone know other games/mods/browsergames like SC2mafia?

[creedkingsx]

Sorry I don't know anything about the SC2 map editor, but I find it hard to belive that the game is so complex that further development seems "extremely complex".

orele, you should make a map

If I was a SC2 map maker myself and knew how to code efficiently

oh wait

Things I would add:

- A -lw button for newbies, so you don't need to ask and learn what LW is. Newbies will see the LW button in their UI and try to click it to learn about it quickly.

DR has stated it's either the text box or the old version. Can't use it with a button, though.

- Submitting a LW during night sequence (error) does not also close it, so you lose what you where writing.

Start writing again?

- A small -pm button next to each player in the bottom right side window (if PM is enabled), again to help new players and for convenience when you have to write to many.

I don't think this is at all implemmentable. Plus, would take longer to do PMs, imo.

- Role list and Graveyard menus are expanded by default.

Many have asked for this, I don't think it is an issue that actually needs to have time put into it.

- Easy command to re-view the LW of a dead player. If player 13 was Lookout and died long ago, instead of having to scroll up in chat log to try to find his LW again you can write '-lw 13' to display it again.

This is actually kind of interesting. I like this idea.

[QUOTE=Brodersen;245892]- Mouse over a category like Town Protective shows which role Town Protective can possibly be.[/color]

Unnecessary. People just need to learn the categories.

[QUOTE=Brodersen;245892]- Redesign the town graphics. I suggest a small city or best would be a village. Each player has their own house and their characters walks into their house during night, and during morning all players still alive walks out and into the middle again to discuss. The players can upgrade their character model and houses with points.

- Remove the Russian Roulette game. It's boring for most players and does a bad job of keeping players in the game until the end.

I like roulette.

- New Graveyard game to replace Roulette, would be to allow players to try to guess the roles of those still alive, and then earn or lose points when the live players roles are revealed (when they die or game ends). This would give graveyard players something to do throughout the rest of the game, and earn bonus points this way.

Encourages cheating.

[QUOTE=Brodersen;245892]- To compensate for the graveyard game bonus points, I also suggest that live players earn a slight bonus for their actions as well. For an example a Doctor who heals someone earns maybe +1 or +2 points. Sherif earns +1 or +2 points when checking someone and getting message that they are not town. Vigilante and jailor could get +4 for killing a non-town and minus points for killing a town. Killing survivor/Amne gives 0 points.
These bonus points are only given at the end of the game, and not rewarded during gameplay (except minus points).[/quote

Encourages cheating.

(Pro players probably don't care about points at this stage, so this is mostly to make the game more fun for the average/majority of mafia players. And to make playing well and successfully more rewarding, as well as compensate for the new graveyard game.)

- Instead of Custom Mode, the standard mode for public games should be Public Mode.
I would suggest that during startup in a Public games (and to avoid AFK host and tedious host selection process, and to get games started quickly), that all players instead vote on which setup to use, choosing between some popular 'COMMUNITY PICKS' or click on one of the players from the list to use that players setup.
This should make games much faster overall and avoid troll saves, AFK hosts, hosts trying to create new setups from scratch while 14 others wait, and many of the other reasons why games can often fail.

I just read the beginning so I assume you are asking for a name change that I am ok with.

- Players can create or change their setup in Setup Mode.

They can...

- Players are given '+1 game played' to their stats during game start, so they can't just leave to avoid bad stats.

Game punishes leaving earlier already.

- Player stats are revealed during game start, for showoff. Players can however chose to reset their stats.

There is a help menu that shows off player stats throughout the entire game.
Beginning, middle, and end.

[Mugy]

- Easy command to re-view the LW of a dead player. If player 13 was Lookout and died long ago, instead of having to scroll up in chat log to try to find his LW again you can write '-lw 13' to display it again.

This is already implemented.

[Apocist]

I've seen the code of Mafia

I'm still recovering from psych therapy.

Yeah I know, All I could make out were the uncompressed stuff like the names of mod commands and the array of random names. That why I refuse to believe that's what DR works with, it just wouldn't make sense.

[Blazer]

Yeah I know, All I could make out were the uncompressed stuff like the names of mod commands and the array of random names. That why I refuse to believe that's what DR works with, it just wouldn't make sense.

Don't show it me. I don't want nightmares. And don't worry Apocist, I got ya! I know what you be sayin!

[Lysergic]

Sorry I don't know anything about the SC2 map editor, but I find it hard to belive that the game is so complex that further development seems "extremely complex".

You realize that DR basically... took Starcraft 2 and used the map editor to make it a different game right?

The code for the map is extremely complex, has been through so many revisions that it's difficult to keep track of stuff, and tends to break randomly when you make small changes.

And the problem isn't that DR can't update because he doesn't understand the code he wrote; the problem is that he doesn't have the free time to spend hours upon hours developing a custom map for Starcraft for free.

I mean, DR shouldn't have compressed the script if he was going to use it again. Atm is looks like a garbled mess with variable names and methods named a/b/c/d/ect. I can't heads our tails of it.

It would have been smarter if he kept an original copy to work with and just uploaded the compressed script.

[Brodersen]

You realize that DR basically... took Starcraft 2 and used the map editor to make it a different game right?

The code for the map is extremely complex, has been through so many revisions that it's difficult to keep track of stuff, and tends to break randomly when you make small changes.

And the problem isn't that DR can't update because he doesn't understand the code he wrote; the problem is that he doesn't have the free time to spend hours upon hours developing a custom map for Starcraft for free.

So....it would only make sense to pass on the torch to someone else who got time and passion for the mafia mod?

Or you suggest to let it slowly die out?

I strongly disagree, and think it would be such a shame to not continue to work on this mod!

[Slaol]

So....it would only make sense to pass on the torch to someone else who got time and passion for the mafia mod?

Or you suggest to let it slowly die out?

I strongly disagree, and think it would be such a shame to not continue to work on this mod!

Donate such that it is worth it for him to update. Problem solved. Brodersen's got this one, you guys. I actually am OK with the idea of the torch being passed, but that is all on DR. Contact him and see what he thinks about that :P

[Damus_Graves]

Donate such that it is worth it for him to update. Problem solved. Brodersen's got this one, you guys. I actually am OK with the idea of the torch being passed, but that is all on DR. Contact him and see what he thinks about that :P

I nominate Elixir since he has seen the code and been assigned as tester already

[Slaol]

I nominate Elixir since he has seen the code and been assigned as tester already

100% sure DR will choose his successor, if he decides to have one.

[Lysergic]

So....it would only make sense to pass on the torch to someone else who got time and passion for the mafia mod?

Or you suggest to let it slowly die out?

I strongly disagree, and think it would be such a shame to not continue to work on this mod!

If you know someone who understands the script, is willing to put in hours upon hours of time to continue updating, who knows how to use map tools, and who DR is willing to allow to develop, please suggest them.

[Glip]

If you know someone who understands the script, is willing to put in hours upon hours of time to continue updating, who knows how to use map tools, and who DR is willing to allow to develop, please suggest them.

How can I see this script? I'd like to see exactly what we're dealing with here.

[EagleMan]

Coding is like learning an entirely new language, except in that language if you make even the slightest grammatical mistake no one can understand what you're saying at all.

"Your" when you meant "You're"? OH JESUS WHAT IS HE SAYING HE'S SPEAKING IN TONGUES (the map crashes).

[Glip]

Coding is like learning an entirely new language, except in that language if you make even the slightest grammatical mistake no one can understand what you're saying at all.

"Your" when you meant "You're"? OH JESUS WHAT IS HE SAYING HE'S SPEAKING IN TONGUES (the map crashes).

Haha, yeah. I have experience with coding. I've coded my own videogames before (albeit in Java) that I had to self-teach almost everything used in making it.

I've always wanted to get started in map-making, but I've never had the inspiration to try to create something of my own and I don't have the know-how to work with the sc2 map editor. But I am willing to learn. It'd be nice to see the script for SC2 Mafia so I can get an idea of what the finished product looks like and how to get started.

[Apocist]

How can I see this script? I'd like to see exactly what we're dealing with here.

I won't explain how it is done, but there are ways to get the data out of bnet maps. I just simply extracted the galaxy file.

[RLVG]

I've never had the inspiration to try to create something of my own and I don't have the know-how to work with the sc2 map editor. But I am willing to learn. It'd be nice to see the script for SC2 Mafia so I can get an idea of what the finished product looks like and how to get started.

An idea could be a WC3-Style Mafia. Basically going around in town, doing jobs - gaining income, buy equipment and rebel against the others to what role you were randomly decided.
Those were called RPG's, LoaP and so on.

Actually, just make a SC2 RPG-Style.
SC2 lacks one of those.

[Lazers]

An idea could be a WC3-Style Mafia. Basically going around in town, doing jobs - gaining income, buy equipment and rebel against the others to what role you were randomly decided.
Those were called RPG's, LoaP and so on.

Actually, just make a SC2 RPG-Style.
SC2 lacks one of those.

There was a WC3 Mafia and it was shit

But it wasn't an RPG

Also I'm fairly certain sc2 has a loap? Maybe I'm mistaken

[Apocist]

There was a WC3 Mafia and it was shit

But it wasn't an RPG

Also I'm fairly certain sc2 has a loap? Maybe I'm mistaken

Sorry...but whats a loap?

[Damus_Graves]

Life of a Peon(Person)(Peasant)

[Glip]

An idea could be a WC3-Style Mafia. Basically going around in town, doing jobs - gaining income, buy equipment and rebel against the others to what role you were randomly decided.
Those were called RPG's, LoaP and so on.

Actually, just make a SC2 RPG-Style.
SC2 lacks one of those.

I was thinking of making a port of the WC3 map The Black Road RPG.

I figured it would be easier to learn how to use the SC2 editor by copying an existing set of triggers/items and everything to make a copy of an existing product to compare to, rather than trying to just freeform the whole thing and see what happens.

[EagleMan]

SC2 editor is kind of retarded
some triggers that WC3 had are just gone in SC2, also it's very buggy, so it's difficult to just straight up copy something over

Also doing the data work for a unit heavy game is a massive pain.

[Bruno]

There isn't an uncompressed version. Certain parts of the script were run through a compressor. Other parts are not.

Having an "uncompressed" version would require rewriting all of the compressed parts and making it work with the parts that are already uncompressed.

He didn't keep an uncompressed copy?

[Brodersen]

I really hope someone at one point makes a new mafia game that is even sleeker/faster. I would even give up the setup process in Public Mode games (new standard mode) and only run cycles of popular community setups (prefer ones with many randoms role categories), just to skip the setup and get started immediately (+ skip possible host/repick failures and newcomers getting a bad first impression).

Being able to create a custom setup should require X number of points or be free in Custom Mode.

I would add a few more roles, and change the graveyard to a role guessing game as well. And I would chose a new city, a mountain village.

I wish I could program!

[clementine]

So maybe I'm in the minority with my opinion, but I feel like the game was a lot better before the MM was added. Development of new roles is cool, but the MM in my opinion is too swingy and unbalanced. I hate it when 5 townies die N1 to the MM, or something to that affect.

But having said that, I think that the map makers are probably doing the best they can with the resources provided by Blizzard. I read some stuff on reddit about people complaining about the ums map scene on sc2mafia. What do people think about this article and the parent thread it came from: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/co...of_the/c6o57a3

Maybe the "drop in players" that or "lack of development" has something to do with this as well? Makes me a little depressed about the future of the sc2 ums scene.

[Brodersen]

@clementine

Same ;)

[Fatalis]

Well I don't know about you guys but this is what I have seen
"Escort dies from SK, last will mentioning that he visited person X"
"SK kills roleblocker"
"Invest got a result from person X saying he is Doc/SK"
"Invest tries to convince town"
"Everybody else talks about sexually related stuff while ignoring the invest"

surely it have something to do with that..................

[Raptorblaze]

Well I don't know about you guys but this is what I have seen
"Escort dies from SK, last will mentioning that he visited person X"
"SK kills roleblocker"
"Invest got a result from person X saying he is Doc/SK"
"Invest tries to convince town"
"Everybody else talks about sexually related stuff while ignoring the invest"

surely it have something to do with that..................

As I've said to at least one other player, we can't fix the playerbase with patches

[FYRE]

I'm a pony