S-FM 218: Mafia Wars III

[Whad]

Also I don't see why a scum kidnapper jails RLVG last night.

[Whad]

I epressed my concern that they didn't claim yet and I saw elephant is online. I put down an L3 or L2 vote (not sure which) and let the train proceed to express who I wish to be kidnapped or lynched.

Eventhough I was scumreading them, there was a way for them to claim before dead if Elephant was town (which he was) and if he wasn't the information gained from those final moments were really highly valuable. That was how I justified that vote to myslef in the final moments of the day - cause deadling was approaching - and I made a judgmental call.

why Get and emphaty were emotionally disposed to Cancer? what lead to that? that was what I was anlyzing back there and thats why I asked Ika about SJ response to me in the first place.
were you townreading cancer day 1 or are you town reading him for a lynch that never happened? or you just started townreading him now and are justifying the things before based on your new read?

I just started townreading Cancer because of his note to the host about nerfing the kidnapper role card. Putting things in perspective though, now I wouldn't be surprised if Cancer/GET/Empathy17 was TvTvT since is scum's best move to rile people all up on D1? Maybe rile people up on a later day to get in a key mislynch, but it's in nobody's best interest to make enemies on D1 and even more so as scum.

[Frozen Angel]

What did you get from Cancer's wagon? You didn't even post the Cancer voters and try to analyze it yet.

I did though

that just shows you didn't read my posts.

Yuki is almost certainly not aligned with Cancer in same scum team. Elephant is very likely town cause they were online there to lynch cancer - and my read would be stronger if they would jail and execute cancer instead but whatever. there was information to work with if we had a flip from cancer that we don't have currently.

[Whad]

Okabe and Yuki what do you think about my thoughts on Gyrlander?

[Whad]

I did though

that just shows you didn't read my posts.

Yuki is almost certainly not aligned with Cancer in same scum team. Elephant is very likely town cause they were online there to lynch cancer - and my read would be stronger if they would jail and execute cancer instead but whatever. there was information to work with if we had a flip from cancer that we don't have currently.

You didn't analyze every person on the wagon. Please point it out to me if you did.

[MattZed]

@MattZed did scum receive their night chat with the other faction on n0 or n1/ when could they start using it?

All scum night chats, including the anonymous one, were given out with rolecards and first became active on N0.

[Okabe]

I just started townreading Cancer because of his note to the host about nerfing the kidnapper role card. Putting things in perspective though, now I wouldn't be surprised if Cancer/GET/Empathy17 was TvTvT since is scum's best move to rile people all up on D1? Maybe rile people up on a later day to get in a key mislynch, but it's in nobody's best interest to make enemies on D1 and even more so as scum.

Don't see how this factors into reads, scum and town both do stuff like this in clarification
Not True: See almost every scum play I have done; as scum, you can get ppl to focus you, counter their arguments well, then ppl town read you and start focusing on other ppl since everyone has interacted with you early on (when there was no real evidence either way)

[Okabe]

Don't see how this factors into reads, scum and town both do stuff like this in clarification
Not True: See almost every scum play I have done; as scum, you can get ppl to focus you, counter their arguments well, then ppl town read you and start focusing on other ppl since everyone has interacted with you early on (when there was no real evidence either way)

~Palarin btw

[Frozen Angel]

Okay I guess I see what you mean. But at best, Luciano has one kidnapper since they definitely have a Janitor. This may be me leaping to too many conclusions, but I like luciano picking Underboss and Janitor better than Janitor and kidnapper (especially because Yukitaka Oni softed Underboss earlier in the thread for literally no reason at all) and I'm reading her as scum.

this makes sense actually. not the preflip specalutions, having informative roles with janitor is more legit.

kidnapping gives towncred - but not when there is another kidnapper around - so yeah - kidnapping RLVG was a bold mve for any possible scum kidnapper.

[Okabe]

Okabe and Yuki what do you think about my thoughts on Gyrlander?

A: I don't like this line of play; It seems like you are indirectly trying to get ppl to come over to your side rather than presenting more evidence and continuing to pressure/ waiting for him to come online and have actual interactions.
B:
Gyrlander sure knows a lot about the FBI mechanics. Could the reason he got so furious be that he's the FBI agent?
Try harder plz, He is literally responding to someone else wondering why fbi doesn't kill and stuff, IIRC; thats not a scum read, thats getting mad at ppl who sign games and don't know the basic mechanics of roles.

[Whad]

I did though

that just shows you didn't read my posts.

Yuki is almost certainly not aligned with Cancer in same scum team. Elephant is very likely town cause they were online there to lynch cancer - and my read would be stronger if they would jail and execute cancer instead but whatever. there was information to work with if we had a flip from cancer that we don't have currently.

Ok I reread, you did talk about the trains but not in nearly enough depth for someone who claimed that their whole strategy for voting Cancer and putting them in SUCH a precarious position to almost be turbo lynched. I was expecting you to repost the EOD votecount and methodically go through each voter, and what we learned from each slot voting Cancer.

For example, deathworlds, Yuki, Firebringer, you all look bad for being on the train. As an analytical slot, I'm surprised that you didn't go WAY more into the train analysis in one concise post because, after all, you claim you were doing it to gather information. Please share the information with the rest of the town.

[Okabe]

Okay I guess I see what you mean. But at best, Luciano has one kidnapper since they definitely have a Janitor. This may be me leaping to too many conclusions, but I like luciano picking Underboss and Janitor better than Janitor and kidnapper (especially because Yukitaka Oni softed Underboss earlier in the thread for literally no reason at all) and I'm reading her as scum.

I heard moles are a cool thing

[Whad]

A: I don't like this line of play; It seems like you are indirectly trying to get ppl to come over to your side rather than presenting more evidence and continuing to pressure/ waiting for him to come online and have actual interactions.
B:
Gyrlander sure knows a lot about the FBI mechanics. Could the reason he got so furious be that he's the FBI agent?
Try harder plz, He is literally responding to someone else wondering why fbi doesn't kill and stuff, IIRC; thats not a scum read, thats getting mad at ppl who sign games and don't know the basic mechanics of roles.

Thanks for making this easy. I'm putting you down as the Mole on my role list. gg no re

[Okabe]

Thanks for making this easy. I'm putting you down as the Mole on my role list. gg no re

Oddly specific, why mole?

[Whad]

I heard moles are a cool thing

Luciano can't be converted to the FBI.

[Frozen Angel]

You didn't analyze every person on the wagon. Please point it out to me if you did.

I never said I will and I'm not sure what do you mean when you ask me that. I don't find it practically odd for town or scum firebringer to just say "I surrender" and vote a going down wagon on someone. I saw him quick voting lylo's as town so that is accounted NAI in my opinion. Emphaty SW head case was actually legit - that they made so many null reads and are faking frustration - but is not a type of case Im intrested in so that was town points for emphaty. deathworlds leaving elephant for cancer was weird tbh - but giving the EOD was getting near and he wanted to show he is not tunneling elephant makes sense

just something that occured to me : what did he say day 1 about letting kidnapper prove themselves? what was his stance?

iso function in SC2 sucks .....

and yuki said I hate to do this but whatever! was actually pretty annoying but there is no other thing from him to compare this pov with it (and thats how I read people)

that was my anlyzes on Votes particullary. I was asked for my anlyzing on wagon before hand and I called the wagon informative. These votes will mean more later with more information at hand.

[Okabe]

Luciano can't be converted to the FBI.

I still don't get it?
Why a mole as opposed to Luciano or FBI agent?

[Whad]

Oddly specific, why mole?

It's interesting to me that you aren't even bothering to deny it.

[Frozen Angel]

A: I don't like this line of play; It seems like you are indirectly trying to get ppl to come over to your side rather than presenting more evidence and continuing to pressure/ waiting for him to come online and have actual interactions.
B:
Gyrlander sure knows a lot about the FBI mechanics. Could the reason he got so furious be that he's the FBI agent?
Try harder plz, He is literally responding to someone else wondering why fbi doesn't kill and stuff, IIRC; thats not a scum read, thats getting mad at ppl who sign games and don't know the basic mechanics of roles.

why are you answering for Gyrlander?

[Okabe]

It's interesting to me that you aren't even bothering to deny it.

[Okabe]

why are you answering for Gyrlander?

whad asked me his opinions on his read of gyrlander?

[Okabe]

Okabe and Yuki what do you think about my thoughts on Gyrlander?

See here

[Frozen Angel]

I'm sure I could find more reasons right now but I will stick with what I have

1.) He pushed a really bad lynch on us based on a "slip" even after people have proved it wasn't AND he was aware that he has failed with pushes before.

2.) Every time people took down his case on me, he used other people's arguments to back his up. He stayed on us as long as he could.

3.) When our train dies down, he suddenly decides that one of the leading trains is someone he wants to lynch and does not provide any reasoning as to why.

4.) When day 2 started, he became less proactive and decided to change his attitude entirely.

I see your point 2 and 3 valid. reading the rest of this atm

[Whad]

I never said I will and I'm not sure what do you mean when you ask me that. I don't find it practically odd for town or scum firebringer to just say "I surrender" and vote a going down wagon on someone. I saw him quick voting lylo's as town so that is accounted NAI in my opinion. Emphaty SW head case was actually legit - that they made so many null reads and are faking frustration - but is not a type of case Im intrested in so that was town points for emphaty. deathworlds leaving elephant for cancer was weird tbh - but giving the EOD was getting near and he wanted to show he is not tunneling elephant makes sense

just something that occured to me : what did he say day 1 about letting kidnapper prove themselves? what was his stance?

iso function in SC2 sucks .....

and yuki said I hate to do this but whatever! was actually pretty annoying but there is no other thing from him to compare this pov with it (and thats how I read people)

that was my anlyzes on Votes particullary. I was asked for my anlyzing on wagon before hand and I called the wagon informative. These votes will mean more later with more information at hand.

Yeah I really just find this analysis weak for someone as analytical as you. It seems so half-assed. But I don't know you. I just know that players find you analytical and a force to be reckoned with. This is more like a tiny whisper than the force to be reckoned with.

The way I do my ISOs is to go to Ongoing Games, then click the number to the right of the thread below Replies:

Then a popup window with everyone's names comes up and then you click on the number of posts on the right and then bam their ISO. It doesn't show the whole post but you can click to expand and it's better than nothing.

[Whad]

Still not going to deny it? Classic case of scum guilt.

[Okabe]

Still not going to deny it? Classic case of scum guilt.

....Do you understand the quote?

[Whad]

....Do you understand the quote?

Do you or do you not deny being scum?
Do you or do you not deny being the mole?

[Okabe]

Do you or do you not deny being scum?
Do you or do you not deny being the mole?

I'm just curious where you are going to take this line of reasoning now more than anything.

[Whad]

I'm just curious where you are going to take this line of reasoning now more than anything.

I find it really odd that you continue to avoid answering my questions about being scum/the mole. That is all.

[Okabe]

I find it really odd that you continue to avoid answering my questions about being scum/the mole. That is all.

and what conclusion does that lead you to?

(Damn mattzed why you have to make it english only)

[Frozen Angel]

whad asked me his opinions on his read of gyrlander?

ok

@Whad read the personality thingi thread that was on SC2 discussion thingi a week ago. I'm sure I know what are you refering to but stop acting like you know me and you figured me out atm.

and you didn't ask me about my reads on votes - noone asked me that before this. why you found those analysis hal-esteemed and how that was your main reason for scumreading me - if you didn't know my analysis before this in first place?

[Frozen Angel]

1 janitor,
2 kindapper
1 godfather
1 consligere
1 fbi
1 mole?!?!?!?
12 living player
8 v 2 v 2 I assume???
2 role confirmed so the lynch is
6 v 2 v 2
3/1/1
lynch chance should be around 2/3 hitting scum.....66%

yuki what is this going to even mean.

[Whad]

and what conclusion does that lead you to?

(Damn mattzed why you have to make it english only)

I said earlier. Scum guilt.

[Okabe]

I said earlier. Scum guilt.

And Scum Guilt leads you to the conclusion of what exactly?

[Frozen Angel]

@deathworlds

Since we have the posibility of two Kidnapping killings. DW might end up being "lynched" anyway.
So to pressure him to do something

-vote Deathworlds

Better than using our vote on FA whilsst she sleeps.

I'm sure you weren't using your vote on me to read me. so why is that unvote and how is that even making any sense if you were scumreading me?

[Frozen Angel]

scum lean lynch > no lynch

Catching up, was busy most of the day.

Is there any signs in your iso for scumreading cancer?

[Whad]

ok

@Whad read the personality thingi thread that was on SC2 discussion thingi a week ago. I'm sure I know what are you refering to but stop acting like you know me and you figured me out atm.

and you didn't ask me about my reads on votes - noone asked me that before this. why you found those analysis hal-esteemed and how that was your main reason for scumreading me - if you didn't know my analysis before this in first place?

Can you link it? I don't know what thread you mean. I'm just going off of what other people who do know you say your meta is. It's a useful tool that I don't have to help read you so of course I'm going to take what others say and incorporate it into my read of you.

You said that you found lots of information from the train on Cancer yet you didn't in depth analyze the train. I found that bizarre given that people say you are an analyzer.

I am not acting like I know you and figured you out. In fact, I am the exact opposite! I am trying to interact with you to figure out a read.

[Frozen Angel]

The only people I'm going to bother pushing are either Cancer, Firebringer, or Yuki.

Cancer: Opportunistic vibes, (inb4 they say I was opportunistic for jumping on train). Feels free to speak mind, is a scum lean, but that's probably because I scumread banana all the time.
Firebringer: Generally pretty dumb, doesn't poke at people often, seems kinda censored through shitty RP.
Yuki: Seems very off, not shitposting, in the usual style.

I'd also like to note that Elephant's alignment is not confirmed, only his abilities.

why you dropped pushing elephant if you beleive nothing is changed alignment wise regarding him.

ignore me if these are answered in next few pages I'm currently reading

[Whad]

And Scum Guilt leads you to the conclusion of what exactly?

Scum guilt is a common phenomenon in mafia games where nice people who role scum feel BAD about it and have a hard time lying to other players who will flat out ask them if they are scum. In this case, a player who feels scum guilt will prefer to avoid the question than to answer in a lie such as "No. I'm not scum because my rolecard says I'm town."

[Whad]

Ok I'm going to sleep now. See ya later.

[Frozen Angel]

Can you link it? I don't know what thread you mean. I'm just going off of what other people who do know you say your meta is. It's a useful tool that I don't have to help read you so of course I'm going to take what others say and incorporate it into my read of you.

You said that you found lots of information from the train on Cancer yet you didn't in depth analyze the train. I found that bizarre given that people say you are an analyzer.

I am not acting like I know you and figured you out. In fact, I am the exact opposite! I am trying to interact with you to figure out a read.

Who claimed they know my meta? I didn't saw anyone claiming that they know me so far and the only people who can claim they might know anything about me are Fire and Ika. and no I can't link it cause I'm on my phone. It was about how my multiple personalities work (that I use hard logics to evalute my emotions and my emotions to evalute my hard logic at the same time) so seeing me making an emotional push on someone based on weird logic that only I can understand is one side of me - trying to analyze that logic based on what I feel is correct (that made such judgemnetal call there) is another side of me.

I said "I found the wagon on Cancer highly informative" not that "I found so many information based on that wagon" and I mean ever word I said and nothing more. I gave you the crooked - nothing to be added atm with limited info in game - anlyzes cause thats all I got - when that lynch didn't happen - and cancer wasn't executed at night - nor any practical development according them is presented.

I have my clues and I'm using them to sort this out. what about that is scummy to you?

and I was saying that you said "I think your more anlytical and these are not ok" thingi like you know me - and you don't know me.

[Okabe]

Scum guilt is a common phenomenon in mafia games where nice people who role scum feel BAD about it and have a hard time lying to other players who will flat out ask them if they are scum. In this case, a player who feels scum guilt will prefer to avoid the question than to answer in a lie such as "No. I'm not scum because my rolecard says I'm town."

But why does that lead to me being particularly mole?

[Gyrlander]

Good morning.

[Gyrlander]

Cáncer, I'm pretty sure what thing you're talking about that makes me town in your eyes rofl. Normally when I'm scum it is the opposite thing. Even 1 vote makes me nervous.

I also have to say that reading an ISO of yourself is pretty entertaiming, even if everything is taken out of contexto.

[Gyrlander]

Oh, and I often talk about Lucianos because I'M THE FUCKING FBI AGENT they are the ones that have been making the kills and such and I naturally focus more on that.

[Frozen Angel]

Oh, and I often talk about Lucianos because I'M THE FUCKING FBI AGENT they are the ones that have been making the kills and such and I naturally focus more on that.

you never discussed anything regarding the kill so far. did you?

[Gyrlander]

you never discussed anything regarding the kill so far. did you?

I thanked Lucianos for killing someone that had claimed Tailor 999 times.

[Cancer]

This is what I find... Interesting.
FA claims to have Town Reads on every single other person who had voted me at the end off Day1.
FA also claims that it's extremely Townie to of tried to Turbo Lynch me.
Yet she also claimed that it's "very bad" to Turbo Lynch is whilst we're not there. And then proceeded to try and do that "very bad" thing.
Honestly, it feels like she is saying
"No-no I'm town ever thing I did was so town, and everyone else did it because their town also."
Along with that, she keeps flopping between scumreading us d1 and scumleaning us on d1, using which ever term fits her argument at the time.

-SJ

[Frozen Angel]

I never said any of those shits ... not even one of them

I analyzed every single vote on you - explained some were null - some questionable and some townish and that my town reads were voting in the wagon.
I never said its extremely townie to turbo lynch your wagon. I never even remotely said anything similar to that. I answered what I was thinking when I did that action and how I justified it to myself - and that how I believe others justified it to themselves from the things I can see - and how should that be analyzed

and yes its VERY BAD to turbo lynch people whithout letting them claim. But Having a no lynch is also VERY BAD and you had a chance to claim if elphant would kidnap you. I was trying to make a point with my vote that I agreed with you as a lynch wagon - so eiather get lynched or get kidnapped and I wanted to see how you - elephant and everyone regarding that wagon will be ... so NO it wasn't what happened in day 1

AND no I never said "everyone else who did it" are town also and never implied that in any manner or form.

I am evaluting your slot - like every other slot in game. there is a thing about your day 1 that is scummy - but that won't make you scum - like the thing I saw from elephant day 1 which was scummy but I beleive he is town. I had a good feeling about the way you started today with voting me and the questions you asked but then you repeatedly ignored every single other discussion around the matter and are only trying to bullshit the crap out of me - by your not true - advertisement show and repeated shady accusation.

Later in day I got the feeling that you may be the second kidnapper and that was like throwing Ice water on my head - that gave me a hard headache and made me doubt my every single read in game so far. So yes, I am in process of reevaluting my reads - no matter if you are the second kidnapper or not - and I am in no manner asking you to claim it. You fucking are trying to get in my head - this is what is in my fucking head.

During this process of reevalution - I tried to solve why YOU answered my question about "your slot poking drama" if banana was the only one who was posting then and why you posted with a meta instead of denying that you were poking the darma and THIS is what made me scumread you day 1. so either cooperate with me - or don't waste my time here cause I'm tired of your time to time bullshit crap misreping , whatever the hell is your doing.


Thank you in advance,
sincerely;
Sara

[Frozen Angel]

I thanked Lucianos for killing someone that had claimed Tailor 999 times.

I remember you mentioning something about empathy and the the kill - though I don't recall what was it. why you didn't brought that up?