S-FM 336: (Ladder) Politico II

[PQRnHack]

My vote on MM stays. It pisses me off that Lag solved this before me. MM+SB16 for sure. Last one I thought Pao, but I am not certain.

[Voss]

Stealth, there are posts that PQRN has made that give me pause as to how they can be made from a scum. Also, PQRN reminds me of Mag/oberon SO much and he's fooled me before with his towny posts(might have been your game where I subbed into some anonymous slot), which make me second guess myself again.

[Lumi]

Scum!Gikkle probably had a momentum to discredit me here, causing me to become at risk of being lynched. Instead, Gikkle chose to put me in town leans, saying my D2 was much better than my D1 (which I honestly think is true, I was a little lost on D1 due to the unusual game start). The benefit of pocketing me is too small for it to make sense imo. Thus, I'm gonna say I like Gikkle here and "accept the pocket", I guess.

Also, @ those saying Lag is actively CCing Paopan: no. Early D1 medic claims are assumed to be WIFOM claims, and conflicting claims are in no way CCs (especially considering how roles are not tied to alignments). If I'm not mistaken, at EoD, Paopan wasn't even voting Guillo, who also claimed medic.

I want your thoughts on the current claim situation:

I rescinded the Medic claim because the roles weren't adding up, I'm voter and I was just providing WIFOM for Medic - like, you know, exactly what voters should do. But then a States Attorney (presumably) fake-claimed voter too, which is super concerning because that role is probably the most dangerous of all the power roles in wolf hands, so the fact that they're now hiding is a huge red flag.

[PQRnHack]

Stealth, there are posts that PQRN has made that give me pause as to how they can be made from a scum. Also, PQRN reminds me of Mag/oberon SO much and he's fooled me before with his towny posts(might have been your game where I subbed into some anonymous slot), which make me second guess myself again.

IDK who stealth is. I am town, i need my town people to know this. That is all.

[PQRnHack]

Stealth, there are posts that PQRN has made that give me pause as to how they can be made from a scum. Also, PQRN reminds me of Mag/oberon SO much and he's fooled me before with his towny posts(might have been your game where I subbed into some anonymous slot), which make me second guess myself again.

You missed a lot of action. Life happens I get it. But we need to win. What happened is i got pressured here today D2 and I was the FIRST person to reveal my role out of all of us. Obviously not NAI, but I made this decision because............... I came for us, town, to win. So if you are town, then please dont make the mistakes made by me (Frinckles), Guillo (me) and others. WIN THIS FOR US PLESAE!

[Renegade]

@Renegade make plans ahead of time.

What?

[Gikkle]

So this is why you should claim:

I'm not Medic. I'm Voter.

Oliver had it correct here:



The voters jobs are to provide WIFOM for the medic. I wanted to get ahead of that and just claim Medic right out.

And then two people claimed Voter, so I assumed mission accomplished, the real medic is covered.

But then Paopan didn't rescind his medic claim. Meaning actually a states attorney or congressman claimed voter??

And then you refused to claim your role as well?

Things getting super screwy in a bad way, and now people accusing me of being states attorney that voted for myself. Feels like I'm being set up by a wolf states attorney that claimed voter to take advantage of a voter claiming medic in order to frame them + get away with doing scummy actions with their now concealed states attorney power.

Why would you expect Paopan to rescind his medic claim? This has the same vibe as earlier when you for some reason thought mafia would think Guillo was medic over Paopan, who CCed Guillo (and Guillo quite obviously wasn't doctor at that point).

Like, PR cover I get. But Paopan was already out in the open. What, then, does claiming medic achieve??

Also, @ those saying Lag is actively CCing Paopan: no. Early D1 medic claims are assumed to be WIFOM claims, and conflicting claims are in no way CCs (especially considering how roles are not tied to alignments). If I'm not mistaken, at EoD, Paopan wasn't even voting Guillo, who also claimed medic.

He claimed it beginning of day 2, as well. And Paopan may not have voted simply because Guillo backed off (without actually explicitly backing off for WIFOM reasons) after Paopan CCed him.

[PQRnHack]

I want your thoughts on the current claim situation:

I rescinded the Medic claim because the roles weren't adding up, I'm voter and I was just providing WIFOM for Medic - like, you know, exactly what voters should do. But then a States Attorney (presumably) fake-claimed voter too, which is super concerning because that role is probably the most dangerous of all the power roles in wolf hands, so the fact that they're now hiding is a huge red flag.

@Lag are you expressing doubts about your MM scum read? Or is this intended to bury the scum?

[Lumi]

My vote on MM stays. It pisses me off that Lag solved this before me. MM+SB16 for sure. Last one I thought Pao, but I am not certain.

Your vote is still on me though. PQ + MM + SB16 team? Hmmmmm

[Gikkle]

[QUOTE=PQRnHack;951544]

I don't assume you're town. Gikkle + oliver are the slots I had as hard town reads.

My town read on you is two-fold. First slots like MM + SB16 were pushing you and they were slots I heavily scum-read (although in light of the recent developments I'll have to reconsider that)

The second reason is that your posts this game feel more like your posts when you were Tambry in Gravity Falls than when you were PQ in the Wild West game. Like you're all over the place in both cases, but in the Wild West game you were super confrontational and aggro whereas in Gravity Falls you were much less in-your-face.[/QUOTE

If you did this to me as scum, I will be *******
Tell me, why is Loldebite viewing me as scum?

why are you speaking exactly as you did in galactica about lag

[PQRnHack]

What?

Same as what I said to MM. I promise to you im 100% town (and yea i would say that as scum). If we fuck up D2, we need to have a plan prepared *BEFORE* D2 ends. It is lazy on us to lynch and *then* figure shit out. It is pissing me off that im getting read as scum when I know i am town. So if you/town mislynch me today, please at least make a plan for D3.

[PQRnHack]

[QUOTE=Gikkle;951567]

why are you speaking exactly as you did in galactica about lag

lag speaking about lag?

[Lumi]

Why would you expect Paopan to rescind his medic claim? This has the same vibe as earlier when you for some reason thought mafia would think Guillo was medic over Paopan, who CCed Guillo (and Guillo quite obviously wasn't doctor at that point).

Like, PR cover I get. But Paopan was already out in the open. What, then, does claiming medic achieve??


He claimed it beginning of day 2, as well. And Paopan may not have voted simply because Guillo backed off (without actually explicitly backing off for WIFOM reasons) after Paopan CCed him.

The line of thought isn't difficult to follow.

1) I am voter, so I fake-claim medic for WIFOM reasons.
2) I see two people claim voter in turn. I assume that means I was successful in WIFOMing as Medic because Medic must be fake-claiming Voter here, as planned on page 1 of the game.
3) Believing one of you/Loldebite to be Medic and the other voter, with me as the second voter. I assume that Paopan must not be Medic and is just some other role fake-claiming as medic before the mass-claim occurs for WIFOM reasons. Therefore I expect him to rescind the claim.

[Gikkle]

lag speaking about lag?

the quotes are breaking >.<
i'm talking to you

[PQRnHack]

Your vote is still on me though. PQ + MM + SB16 team? Hmmmmm

Oops. My bad for open wolfing with you. How silly of me!

-vote Marshmallow Marshall

[Gikkle]

The line of thought isn't difficult to follow.

1) I am voter, so I fake-claim medic for WIFOM reasons.
2) I see two people claim voter in turn. I assume that means I was successful in WIFOMing as Medic because Medic must be fake-claiming Voter here, as planned on page 1 of the game.
3) Believing one of you/Loldebite to be Medic and the other voter, with me as the second voter. I assume that Paopan must not be Medic and is just some other role fake-claiming as medic before the mass-claim occurs for WIFOM reasons. Therefore I expect him to rescind the claim.

bleh
this whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth

[Lumi]

The line of thought isn't difficult to follow.

1) I am voter, so I fake-claim medic for WIFOM reasons.
2) I see two people claim voter in turn. I assume that means I was successful in WIFOMing as Medic because Medic must be fake-claiming Voter here, as planned on page 1 of the game.
3) Believing one of you/Loldebite to be Medic and the other voter, with me as the second voter. I assume that Paopan must not be Medic and is just some other role fake-claiming as medic before the mass-claim occurs for WIFOM reasons. Therefore I expect him to rescind the claim.

But then Paopan didn't rescind, which means Paopan is just Medic, and either you or Loldebite are lying and are actually a States Attorney that is hiding as Voter.

[PQRnHack]

bleh
this whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth

Top 3 lynches today?

[PQRnHack]

But then Paopan didn't rescind, which means Paopan is just Medic, and either you or Loldebite are lying and are actually a States Attorney that is hiding as Voter.

You are State Attorney and voted yourself. Big brain!

[Gikkle]

If I take this literally, it seems like you want to know what my reads were at #562, and why I changed them from this post



I'm going to actually take it to mean, in day 2, give me a better reads progression on how your list changes as you read day 2. I think this'll be more useful, and give me less busy work, as I only have so much time to play this game per day.

@ me if you actually want me to do the literal request, as I'll stop being so thorough when I read day 2 and switch back to the homework you gave me.

@Gikkle

So long as you're showing your thought process as it pertains to your reads, you don't need to specifically do what I said. I'd prefer you did the "how your reads developed over the course of the game" thing, but if you don't have time for that, then whatever is fine.

[Lumi]

bleh
this whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth

Ya no shit, the States Attorney, probably the role with the most pro-wolf potential, has decided to fake-claim, no-rescind.

Anyone that doesn't view this as concerning should have their head looked at.

[Renegade]

Same as what I said to MM. I promise to you im 100% town (and yea i would say that as scum). If we fuck up D2, we need to have a plan prepared *BEFORE* D2 ends. It is lazy on us to lynch and *then* figure shit out. It is pissing me off that im getting read as scum when I know i am town. So if you/town mislynch me today, please at least make a plan for D3.

Yeah you make a good point.

[PQRnHack]

Yeah you make a good point.

Gonna call you out on your words. I make a good point, so what will you do about it?

[Lumi]

You are State Attorney and voted yourself. Big brain!

If that were true, then why did I rescind the medic claim? Why didn't I just stick to it? ESPECIALLY after Renegade said that we're not going to chop a Medic claim today?

Like if I were scum States Attorney then I just stick to the claim and avoid drawing the attention as I was basically given a free pass for the day.

Why would I hand that free pass back in to help solve the game?

[PQRnHack]

If that were true, then why did I rescind the medic claim? Why didn't I just stick to it? ESPECIALLY after Renegade said that we're not going to chop a Medic claim today?

Like if I were scum States Attorney then I just stick to the claim and avoid drawing the attention as I was basically given a free pass for the day.

Why would I hand that free pass back in to help solve the game?

You and Rene, if scum, win today. yes or no?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I can't really stay, was just popping in to check what was going on and was surprised to see so many new posts. I'll comment a bit more in this case.

I'm shocked that you are not outraged at Paopan's extremely weak d2 so far.

I am, but he's part of the lesser evils right now. His nonexistence and his behavior closer to EoD will prove useful later on, and solving a low activity, low content slot based on "positive tells", i.e. things the slot did instead of things related to the slot and things happening to it (or not happening), is risky. He has been outrageously outrageous every time I've seen him play, so it's not exactly telling; but at this point, I'm starting to think he should be charged with the heinous crime of not being towny by PoE. That being said, PQ remains much worse here.

MM, stealth? y'all are here and if you guys are both scum I'm glad to give the game to you.

Why did you both claim, and why should I not try to protect the medic and state attorney (if we're really to believe you)

There is actual info to be gained now: who the state attorney is and why they placed a vote on Lag. An anonymous controversial vote is strange, and considering how everyone seems to claim not to be that role, I doubt the attorney is town; it's not impossible they're a misplaying town, but still. Uncovering this is meaningful, because it helps solve both Lag and the SA. It's safe enough to assume scum!SA didn't place a vote on scum!Lag, especially when Lag could very well have died yesterday. Plus, scum!SA, if it exists (which is very possible), is a significant threat. As for drawbacks of massclaiming, there is the risk of losing town!Medic, but WIFOM about self-heals can probably keep them alive if they exist. Other roles are really not that useful for town, except maybe for the vote remover that can successfully harm scum (and even then, it's risky), so the benefits outweigh the drawbacks imo.

[Lumi]

Tinfoil theory, but actually not:

States Attorney fake-claimed in order to force the medic fake-claim to reveal so that they can flush out the real medic.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I want your thoughts on the current claim situation:

I rescinded the Medic claim because the roles weren't adding up, I'm voter and I was just providing WIFOM for Medic - like, you know, exactly what voters should do. But then a States Attorney (presumably) fake-claimed voter too, which is super concerning because that role is probably the most dangerous of all the power roles in wolf hands, so the fact that they're now hiding is a huge red flag.

Okay, makes sense. In that case, there is one scum SA hiding among the voter claims, which means we have a wolf in a box. Hello benefit of massclaiming post-SA vote

At this point, fake-claiming as SA = scum, since it's depriving town from information, wasting people's time and just generally wanting to influence the gamestate from the shadows, which is not what townies do.

[PQRnHack]

I can't really stay, was just popping in to check what was going on and was surprised to see so many new posts. I'll comment a bit more in this case.

I am, but he's part of the lesser evils right now.

Nice bus bros! I expected more from you, but you are playing the same garbage we did (that somehow won) last scum i had. Your days are numbered.

[PQRnHack]

Tinfoil theory, but actually not:

States Attorney fake-claimed in order to force the medic fake-claim to reveal so that they can flush out the real medic.

Are you pocketing me by offering sweet ass theories that give me a boner? lol

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Tinfoil theory, but actually not:

States Attorney fake-claimed in order to force the medic fake-claim to reveal so that they can flush out the real medic.

Medic can self-heal. That's a pretty damn complicated strategy for a pretty limited and uncertain outcome you're describing.

[PQRnHack]

I am happy with my vote on MM.

[Lumi]

You and Rene, if scum, win today. yes or no?

I'm not even sure what you're asking here, are you asking:

"If there is a mischop today, does SA + Mayor wolf team win tomorrow?"

To which the answer is no. It would go from 8v2 -> 6v2
Mayor + SA makes it 6v4. Town still has another day.

If it's Mayor + SA + 1 then it goes to 5v3 -> 5v5
Which is concerning, so perhaps Judge should disenfranchise Mayor/SA if we mis-chop today? But that just opens up opportunities for like Mayor + Judge or SA + Judge to win, I think.

But either way, I don't see how this is relevant to what I was asking you?

[PQRnHack]

Okay, makes sense. In that case, there is one scum SA hiding among the voter claims, which means we have a wolf in a box. Hello benefit of massclaiming post-SA vote

At this point, fake-claiming as SA = scum, since it's depriving town from information, wasting people's time and just generally wanting to influence the gamestate from the shadows, which is not what townies do.

You got demolished yesterday and now are weak as crap. Pussying out today won't work. Errors have been made, get ready for the chop!

[Lumi]

Are you pocketing me by offering sweet ass theories that give me a boner? lol

Medic can self-heal. That's a pretty damn complicated strategy for a pretty limited and uncertain outcome you're describing.

These two reactions to the same post, lmao

Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you: The Duality of Man

[PQRnHack]

I hereby propose that either MM or I go today.

[PQRnHack]

These two reactions to the same post, lmao

Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you: The Duality of Man

Do not assume that I am a man

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Nice bus bros! I expected more from you, but you are playing the same garbage we did (that somehow won) last scum i had. Your days are numbered.

Nice, more LAMIST! I am too tired to get into another argument with you, and it would be pointless to do it anyway, since my point has already been beaten to death. If you somehow flip town, we will at least have a ton of information based on interactions and defenses/attacks around you (loldebite voting you, oliver calling your defense literally wifom and trash, Lag who seems to trust you for some unholy reason, even analysis on myself for y'all...).

[Voss]

I can't really stay, was just popping in to check what was going on and was surprised to see so many new posts. I'll comment a bit more in this case.

I am, but he's part of the lesser evils right now. His nonexistence and his behavior closer to EoD will prove useful later on, and solving a low activity, low content slot based on "positive tells", i.e. things the slot did instead of things related to the slot and things happening to it (or not happening), is risky. He has been outrageously outrageous every time I've seen him play, so it's not exactly telling; but at this point, I'm starting to think he should be charged with the heinous crime of not being towny by PoE. That being said, PQ remains much worse here.


There is actual info to be gained now: who the state attorney is and why they placed a vote on Lag. An anonymous controversial vote is strange, and considering how everyone seems to claim not to be that role, I doubt the attorney is town; it's not impossible they're a misplaying town, but still. Uncovering this is meaningful, because it helps solve both Lag and the SA. It's safe enough to assume scum!SA didn't place a vote on scum!Lag, especially when Lag could very well have died yesterday. Plus, scum!SA, if it exists (which is very possible), is a significant threat. As for drawbacks of massclaiming, there is the risk of losing town!Medic, but WIFOM about self-heals can probably keep them alive if they exist. Other roles are really not that useful for town, except maybe for the vote remover that can successfully harm scum (and even then, it's risky), so the benefits outweigh the drawbacks imo.

Stealth said earlier that SA's vote is NAI, and I agreed with that, but...

I'm SA and I put the vote on Lag because
- Frinckles voted for Lag at EoD yesterday, and you, of all people should know how big of a fan I am of listening to the dead.
- Lag deserves to remain in the hot seat because they were a top train yesterday. Figured I'd make it easier.

Also, as added context, I pmed Martin that I wanted to put the vote on Loldebite (for the CFD attempt yesterday), but rescinded it after Frinckle's flip and thinking a little more about the CFD. Trying to resolve Frinckles vs Lag was more important than getting loldebite.

[PQRnHack]

Nice, more LAMIST! I am too tired to get into another argument with you, and it would be pointless to do it anyway, since my point has already been beaten to death. If you somehow flip town, we will at least have a ton of information based on interactions and defenses/attacks around you (loldebite voting you, oliver calling your defense literally wifom and trash, Lag who seems to trust you for some unholy reason, even analysis on myself for y'all...).

You or I get voted off today. Cast your vote.

[Lumi]

I am starting to wonder if MM/PQ is actually T/T and the wolves just royally screwed up by getting greedy, trying to protect their SA.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

These two reactions to the same post, lmao

Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you: The Duality of Man

XD

I hereby propose that either MM or I go today.

This is probably a good idea, btw: leaving this unsolved is certainly not going to yield positive results for town. I can get behind the thunderdome. And I would love it if people did not fall for the "spamming I'm town and forcing myself to build a world around this false statement" trick again...

[Lumi]

Stealth said earlier that SA's vote is NAI, and I agreed with that, but...

I'm SA and I put the vote on Lag because
- Frinckles voted for Lag at EoD yesterday, and you, of all people should know how big of a fan I am of listening to the dead.
- Lag deserves to remain in the hot seat because they were a top train yesterday. Figured I'd make it easier.

Also, as added context, I pmed Martin that I wanted to put the vote on Loldebite (for the CFD attempt yesterday), but rescinded it after Frinckle's flip and thinking a little more about the CFD. Trying to resolve Frinckles vs Lag was more important than getting loldebite.

The points in this post are pretty terrible.

Frinckles voted for me as a literal last second cross-vote because he knew he was town, and town should have self-preservation.

The only other people that voted me were Guillo and Ren.

Calling a two person train a "top train" because the Mayor happened to be voting me seems super disingenuous

[Lumi]

Wait if Voss is SA, then a congressman fake claimed as voter??

[Voss]

I never vote for MM, and the only reason why I might vote for PQRN is because they are talking so much. My earlier posts calling this out were before I saw that there was at least 2x more content.

I think Lag or Pao are good votes

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Stealth said earlier that SA's vote is NAI, and I agreed with that, but...

I'm SA and I put the vote on Lag because
- Frinckles voted for Lag at EoD yesterday, and you, of all people should know how big of a fan I am of listening to the dead.
- Lag deserves to remain in the hot seat because they were a top train yesterday. Figured I'd make it easier.

Also, as added context, I pmed Martin that I wanted to put the vote on Loldebite (for the CFD attempt yesterday), but rescinded it after Frinckle's flip and thinking a little more about the CFD. Trying to resolve Frinckles vs Lag was more important than getting loldebite.

Okay I am definetly not able to think critically right now lol

Why'd you remain hidden? I confirm the meta part about listening to the dead, but that doesn't make placing an anonymous, unexplained, controversial vote a good idea.

You or I get voted off today. Cast your vote.

That was done ages ago. Stop spamming your taunts, damnit. It's not fun. I know it helps convince people through sheer repetition because you drown them into your restated arguments until they believe them, but it's just rude and not so pro-town ;)

[Voss]

The points in this post are pretty terrible.

Frinckles voted for me as a literal last second cross-vote because he knew he was town, and town should have self-preservation.

The only other people that voted me were Guillo and Ren.

Calling a two person train a "top train" because the Mayor happened to be voting me seems super disingenuous

I missed the part where Frinckles voted you out of self preservation, sorry.

[PQRnHack]

I never vote for MM, and the only reason why I might vote for PQRN is because they are talking so much. My earlier posts calling this out were before I saw that there was at least 2x more content.

I think Lag or Pao are good votes

Ii am town. If you are town, then I welcome you to ask me whatever your heart wishes. I talk a lot because i have nothing to hide.

[Voss]

Okay I am definetly not able to think critically right now lol

Why'd you remain hidden? I confirm the meta part about listening to the dead, but that doesn't make placing an anonymous, unexplained, controversial vote a good idea.

Let's break this down.
anonymous
My power is anonymous, so yes. I don't 'ppreciate the negative connotation. Do you think I should have outed d2 that it was me that put the vote on Lag? It seems like you do with this post.

unexplained
Sorry I couldn't explain it, but that's what being anonymous entails.

controversial
I don't know why you keep calling Frinckles and Lag votes yesterday controversial. Just because frinckles and lag weren't your ideal trains yesterday doesn't make them super controversial. Controversial trains would have been like Guillo vs Ren.

That was done ages ago. Stop spamming your taunts, damnit. It's not fun. I know it helps convince people through sheer repetition because you drown them into your restated arguments until they believe them, but it's just rude and not so pro-town ;)

yeah, please don't make me ask martin to ask you to cool it. i'm just skimming the catch up day 2 pages and find myself having to reread the posts that you didn't make.

[Voss]

Ii am town. If you are town, then I welcome you to ask me whatever your heart wishes. I talk a lot because i have nothing to hide.

THEN MAKE IT EASIER FOR ME TO PLAY THIS GAME BY NOT POSTING SO MANY ONE LINERS MONOLOGUES.