S-FM 317: Eternia [LADDER]

[FrostByte]

Town: Oberon, Mesk
Townlean: Mattzed
Null: Helz, Mike, DM
Scumlean: MM, Frostbyte

I think that's everyone. Obviously MM & FB don't seem like a scumteam considering the votes but its kind of early to worldbuild anyway.

It'd be nice to have an explaination on "hand-waving" Frostbyte and I are supposedly guilty of. Especially since our plays seem rather different this game.

Strong townreads: Mike
Medium townreads: Helz
Medium-low townreads: Mattzed, Mesk
Low townreads (aka soft townleans): Oberon, Frinckles
Null: DM
Scummy: Frostbyte
Scum: @Varcron

Explain your readwall or it's worthless townie theatre

[Mike]

Being forthcoming about my read on you and why isn't scummy when you are clearly being opportunistic about a claim that holds little effect on the game.

So me Voteing you is opportunistic???? a claim that helps mafia narrow down the PR pool??? Frinckles I respect your play alot more than this. I can not see you as town Hard claiming Citzen Day 1 with no push on you to claim. Then Lieing and saying you claimed becuse you have been on L2 and L1. My vote stands. If I was opportunistic I have had other people I would have jumped on and could have.

This makes me want to lynch you even more.

[Helz]

I am going to hardclaim citizen now though.

...Why?

[FrostByte]

And Frostbyte. https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/misc....posted&t=47841
Especially Frostbyte, seeing this:


He disappeared after this. He wasn't even eating tacos like Helz was. UNFORGIVABLE.
(but seriously, saying this and disappearing afterwards with the lowest post count in the game after the host is bad)

How is saying "There's nothing to read" and then not giving reads a bad thing?

Weak attempt at scumpainting.

[Frinckles]

...Why?

at that time I was under the assumption that I was at L2 from an oberon fakevote

[Oberon]

Im back and catching up. Should be able to play today, the thing went quick.

Also @Oberon
You do realize that when I was cracking wolf jokes with Matt I did not have a role card yet right? There is no way any of that could be AI.

shhh those are just details

[Helz]

@MattZed Can you explain your townread on Mesk? You have mentioned it multiple times but I do not recall any specific reasoning.

[FrostByte]

Why is Frinckles being trained?
Also, I think Matt is town.

-vote Frinckles

Dude can you stop your bullshit and actually think shit through for once, please? This kneejerk 60IQ shit from you is getting really old.

[FrostByte]

Explain your readwall or it's worthless townie theatre

at that time I was under the assumption that I was at L2 from an oberon fakevote

You ignoring this is you admitting your readwall is worthless townie theatre btw

and you're voting me for not playing worthless townie theatre right now.

Makes sense.

[Mike]

at that time I was under the assumption that I was at L2 from an oberon fakevote

Even so why claim??? where is the real pressure. And when have you ever fell to pressure with only 3 votes on you? on day 1?
Do you not see why I am scum reading you for it?????

[Helz]

All of this is a non-issue and even a non-information (someone not having their rolecard can't give anything relevant, and if by some miracle it could, the information obtained would be angleshooty). This is pretty much a waste of time.

I will say that I very specifically only trolled before then and posted the host ping in chat because I believe a player gets an unfair advantage when they play without knowing their role if they are scum. I felt like that sort of information needed to be revealed to the other players.

[FrostByte]

[QUOTE=Mesk514;906937]citizen mesk reporting for duty.


So you come in and immediately claim cit? Why would you do that? If you're town you're narrowing town TPR pool for scum. This isn't the play. At all.

[FrostByte]

citizen mesk reporting for duty.

-vote Mattzed

for dragging me into this

Gonna make a second post to fix the quote so Mesk knows I quoted them

[Oberon]

Dude can you stop your bullshit and actually think shit through for once, please? This kneejerk 60IQ shit from you is getting really old.

no

[Mike]

[QUOTE=FrostByte;907346]

citizen mesk reporting for duty.


So you come in and immediately claim cit? Why would you do that? If you're town you're narrowing town TPR pool for scum. This isn't the play. At all.

This is my point DING DING DING. Mesk claims town early. Then Freckles then claims town later on. If they are both real BIG IF. Then that leaves only 2 Cits left rest PR HMM MAfia knows who is mafia. Nuetral knows who is Neutral.

Only 1 Neutral.
So from MAfia PoV. if neather one of them claim Cit then they know 1 can be Neutral and other is prob cit. point is makes the Pr hunt easyer for mafia. Now Neutral would claim cit eary to have mafia keep from night killing them. Mafia will claim Neutral early to claim I early claimed cit so i am confirmed cit.

We lynch in the Cit claims best odds for Town to hit Mafia or Neutral.

[Helz]

@FrostByte
I know a lot of people are poking you right now and there is no rush but I would genuinely like to hear your answers to these when you have time:

Something that pinged me on this is how could this possibly benefit scum? And why would I push town favored strategy to communicate with my team mate if I had a wolf chat with them?

Its in reference to you saying my pushing the town to use last wills could be signaling scum.

[FrostByte]

@FrostByte
I know a lot of people are poking you right now and there is no rush but I would genuinely like to hear your answers to these when you have time:
Its in reference to you saying my pushing the town to use last wills could be signaling scum.

Already answered

I was still basically asleep when I made that post, I don't remember what the fuck I was thinking. If it comes to me I'll let you know.

[Frinckles]

Explain your readwall or it's worthless townie theatre

You're not reading any of my posts apparently.

[FrostByte]

[QUOTE=Mike;907349]

This is my point DING DING DING. Mesk claims town early. Then Freckles then claims town later on. If they are both real BIG IF. Then that leaves only 2 Cits left rest PR HMM MAfia knows who is mafia. Nuetral knows who is Neutral.

Only 1 Neutral.
So from MAfia PoV. if neather one of them claim Cit then they know 1 can be Neutral and other is prob cit. point is makes the Pr hunt easyer for mafia. Now Neutral would claim cit eary to have mafia keep from night killing them. Mafia will claim Neutral early to claim I early claimed cit so i am confirmed cit.

We lynch in the Cit claims best odds for Town to hit Mafia or Neutral.

I'd even go so far as to say Mesk was in last game where scum almost fucked themselves by not claiming cit and it's not much of a stretch to say scum!Mesk would want to make sure that didn't happen this game. It's a stretch but not a big one.

[FrostByte]

You're not reading any of my posts apparently.

I am reading them plenty. Giving a "reads so far" wall with no explanation isn't helpful. You even admit that your reads are trash because you couldn't see MM and me being scum team.

But, again, you're voting me for not giving a bullshit trash readwall.

Fuck that. That's fucking dumb as shit.

[Oberon]

I haven’t seen anything AI from most people. The only thing that struck me as AI is MattZed saying that hes townreading most people. He seems to think a lot like I am this game. Hard town lean on MZ.

[FrostByte]

You're not reading any of my posts apparently.

I have to quote you twice to get you to respond but then you come at me with "YoUrE nOt ReAdInG mY pOsTs"

Eat a fat dick

[Oberon]

-vote Marshmallow Marshall

You’re not being genuine. This feels like your scum meta.

[FrostByte]

-vote Marshmallow Marshall

You’re not being genuine. This feels like your scum meta.

-unvote

Gonna go ahead and cancel out this bullshit pressure

MUH META isn't good enough imo

[FrostByte]

-vote Marshmallow Marshall

You’re not being genuine. This feels like your scum meta.

He literally always gives me that vibe

[FrostByte]

He literally always gives me that vibe

playing fucking sc2mafia politics constantly instead of acting like a human being

[Oberon]

-unvote

Gonna go ahead and cancel out this bullshit pressure

MUH META isn't good enough imo

why?

[FrostByte]

I wasn't posting much partially because I was in a shitty mood but you fuckers wouldn't leave well enough alone, so here we are

[FrostByte]

why?

Vague notions of his meta aren't good enough to put someone at L-3 imo. MM has played a million games, his meta is a moot point because he consciously controls it.

[Mike]

He literally always gives me that vibe

I like Frost here. I can not disagree with this post. LOL

[FrostByte]

I like Frost here. I can not disagree with this post. LOL

I'm glad somebody else sees it

[Oberon]

Vague notions of his meta aren't good enough to put someone at L-3 imo. MM has played a million games, his meta is a moot point because he consciously controls it.

controlling your own meta isnt as easy as you might think. its rather difficult to do, in fact

[FrostByte]

controlling your own meta isnt as easy as you might think. its rather difficult to do, in fact

It's not. When you've played a role more than once you can easily get past your kneejerk playstyle. Consider how your actions affected mass perception of you in past games and act differently. Got scum read for lurking? Post more. Got town read for shooting straight? Call people out on their bullshit.

If you're playing scum you can ISO yourself from your old town games and try to emulate that perceived mindset.

Experience in games naturally leads into meta manipulation

[Mike]

Senator
During the night you may submit a message to the host to be posted the next day.
The message must contain a demand of some sort (EX: I think we should lynch Barack Obama)
If the demand is not carried out you gain a one use night kill.
You may use multiple night kills on the same night.
Holy Guardian Spirit
Assigned one person at the start of the game.
Can choose to save that person once per game.
If that person dies that night or is lynched the next day, You die instead.
Vengeful Harpy
You have no night ability.
You must see your target lynched.
Your target is ___.
If your target dies at night, you turn into an Insane Harpy.
You have a one use auto vest. (+1) You keep your vest if you turn into an Insane Harpy.
Insane Harpy
You have no night ability.
You must see yourself lynched.

I dont think we have an insane harpy unless it is DM becuse it does not make any sence why they dont just out and get the free win.
I dont think we have a Vengfull harpy unless it is DM becuse I am not seeing anyone pushing one person over another.
So that leaves us
Senator
During the night you may submit a message to the host to be posted the next day.
The message must contain a demand of some sort (EX: I think we should lynch Barack Obama)
If the demand is not carried out you gain a one use night kill.
You may use multiple night kills on the same night.
Holy Guardian Spirit
Assigned one person at the start of the game.
Can choose to save that person once per game.
If that person dies that night or is lynched the next day, You die instead.

And no one seems to hard on protecting anyone so I am going to lay odd that we have a senator. Unless DM one of the other 3.

World Building time

Oberon with Frinkles ???
@FrostByte With ???? no one likeing him other than me.
@Frinckles with Oberon or Mesk ??? or Solo Neutral.
@Marshmallow Marshall with ?????
@Dark Magician with ??????????????????????????????????????
@Mesk514 with Frinkles or Matzedd ????
@MattZed with Mesk or Helz ????
@Helz with Mattzed ????

I would love to hear from each of you and tell me worlds you can see partners in. also if I am wrong on any of my posible worlds please explaine why I am wrong so i can update my notes if i agree with you.

[Helz]

I would love to hear from each of you and tell me worlds you can see partners in. also if I am wrong on any of my posible worlds please explaine why I am wrong so i can update my notes if i agree with you.

Your notes clearly reflect you are paying attention but no, I am not going to post my thoughts on associations yet. It would reflect what I am looking at and allow those players to alter their behavior. Its just too early to use the patterns effectively imo.

I would also not rule out a Vengeful Harpy yet. The classic play is for them to wait a day or two and claim a PR with a damning lead.

[FrostByte]

Your notes clearly reflect you are paying attention but no, I am not going to post my thoughts on associations yet. It would reflect what I am looking at and allow those players to alter their behavior. Its just too early to use the patterns effectively imo

the same logic could be applied on these wallread towny theatre posts tbh

[FrostByte]

I would also not rule out a Vengeful Harpy yet. The classic play is for them to wait a day or two and claim a PR with a damning lead.

Strongly agree. Executioner doesn't care what happens afterwards, once their target is gone they've won. Wait until someone dies, claim lookout and say X VISITED DED GUY LUNCH HE!!! ez win

Having a senator in game would be fun as fuck though.

[Helz]

the same logic could be applied on these wallread towny theatre posts tbh

To a limited extent. But it pushes the gamestate forward into deeper play and allows other people to read you.

We have roughly 22 and a half hours and a lynch to decide. Waiting for more information just is not an option. Even pushing some tinfoil theory allows others insight into your play.

[Frinckles]

I have to quote you twice to get you to respond but then you come at me with "YoUrE nOt ReAdInG mY pOsTs"

Eat a fat dick

I've given my reads thus far. And I didn't say my reads were shitty. Just because you and MM aren't likely scum partners doesn't mean neither of you is scum. Your infatuation with that in particular sounds like you're gloating that I dont know your partner.

[FrostByte]

To a limited extent. But it pushes the gamestate forward into deeper play and allows other people to read you.

We have roughly 22 and a half hours and a lynch to decide. Waiting for more information just is not an option. Even pushing some tinfoil theory allows others insight into your play.

This applies to posting association reads, too, though.

[FrostByte]

I've given my reads thus far. And I didn't say my reads were shitty. Just because you and MM aren't likely scum partners doesn't mean neither of you is scum. Your infatuation with that in particular sounds like you're gloating that I dont know your partner.

Obviously MM & FB don't seem like a scumteam considering the votes but its kind of early to worldbuild anyway.

"its kind of early to worldbuild anyway." = a different way of saying "these reads are shit" just because you didn't use those exact words doesn't mean you didn't basically say that exact thing.
Infatuation? Exactly many times did I bring it up?

[Helz]

This applies to posting association reads, too, though.

I just think pre-flip association reading D1 is not a reliable method. D1 I am looking at Scum Vs town although the Mafia informed perspective is something to consider. I do believe reading Scum vs Town can be done with a decent measure of success D1.

[FrostByte]

I've given my reads thus far. And I didn't say my reads were shitty. Just because you and MM aren't likely scum partners doesn't mean neither of you is scum. Your infatuation with that in particular sounds like you're gloating that I dont know your partner.

This is some tinfoil shit. You're tunneling me pretty hard.

[FrostByte]

I just think pre-flip association reading D1 is not a reliable method. D1 I am looking at Scum Vs town although the Mafia informed perspective is something to consider. I do believe reading Scum vs Town can be done with a decent measure of success D1.

Valid af

[MattZed]

@MattZed Can you explain your townread on Mesk? You have mentioned it multiple times but I do not recall any specific reasoning.

It's pure meta/gutread. I recall it was a *major* controversy back in the day that she would only claim cit when she was actually cit, and say nothing if she was scum. (I forget what would happen if she got a TPR, but I think silent there as well) Given Mesk's reputation, I think claiming cit really is alignment indicative, and nothing else I've seen gives me the impression we're seeing a different Mesk from the one I remember.

[FrostByte]

This is some tinfoil shit. You're tunneling me pretty hard.

Almost looks like scum squirming under the tiny bit of pressure put on them earlier. You claimed after only a couple votes. Frinckles scummy as shit.

[FrostByte]

It's pure meta/gutread. I recall it was a *major* controversy back in the day that she would only claim cit when she was actually cit, and say nothing if she was scum. (I forget what would happen if she got a TPR, but I think silent there as well) Given Mesk's reputation, I think claiming cit really is alignment indicative, and nothing else I've seen gives me the impression we're seeing a different Mesk from the one I remember.

So narrowing down the TPR pool = town, got it

[Frinckles]

"its kind of early to worldbuild anyway." = a different way of saying "these reads are shit" just because you didn't use those exact words doesn't mean you didn't basically say that exact thing.
Infatuation? Exactly many times did I bring it up?

Semantics oh boy. Replace the word with focus.

I think my reads are good actually, how about that?

[FrostByte]

2+2=5 because MUH META

[FrostByte]

Semantics oh boy. Replace the word with focus.

I think my reads are good actually, how about that?

So you don't think MM and I are scum team, but you think your reads, which include is as scum team, are good?

Nahhhhhhhh

-vote Frinckles

This shit don't add up at all. You're talking out of your ass.