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  1. ISO #351

    Re: ILLUMINΔTI (Ladder) 9P

    Quote Originally Posted by Mesk514 View Post
    how cute, everyone's gone to bed.

    Anyway's MZ literally said he isn't going to let me get away with not contributing today, as if i wasn't already contributing when it was 13 posts in. that's coming into the game with an agenda.
    MM literally voted MZ for his RVS and then said to someone "I'm going back to the pressure mesk plan" like 20 posts into the game when he never mentioned me prior but MZ told him to follow. Then like 20 posts after that he was just like, ooops, i thought i was already on mesk, hehe.

    Something funky is going on between these two, and their seemingly more focused on me. MZ focused on pressuring me and MM focused on appeasing MZ. MM is more susceptible to more advanced plays, and I think MZ knows that. So I'm keeping my vote where it is.
    Nice cherrypicking :P you left out the reasoning behind what happened there and made it look like it was some weird anomaly.
    Quote Originally Posted by MattZed View Post
    I spent most of last game thinking I was a scum-aligned neutral. I wanted to pocket Mesk by accepting her claim.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    WOWOWOW. I didn't give much credit to Frinckles' "you didn't have that issue last time we played", but this is bullshit.


    Link because I can't quote with quote-link from the Archive: https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...499#post908499

    -vote MattZed

    And with some seriousness this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by MattZed View Post
    As the last bit I'm going to say on this:

    Attachment 27639
    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Ok then lol
    -vote unvote


    Note that this doesn't make MattZed towny in any way, just not scummy in any way either.
    This is rather self-explainatory and obvious; Mesk is experienced, so I would expect her to pick up on that. The fact she doesn't leads me to think Mesk either really doesn't like me and lets this cloud her judgment, or is simply... scum. And while the former isn't impossible, the latter is getting more and more likely; I don't see anything that indicates she is town, and I now see things that indicate she's scum.
    also, if you're town, insulting me isn't going to help anyone :P
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    it looks like many, e.g. MM and lag, suffered under the influence of paopan. However there is a victim: frinckles. He left the path of rationality and fully dived into the parallel reality of baby shark, king shark, and soviet union pizzas.
    Spoiler : The meaning of life :

  2. ISO #352

  3. ISO #353

  4. ISO #354

  5. ISO #355

    Re: ILLUMINΔTI (Ladder) 9P

    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    Sorry to say, but the vote on you [Renegade] is semi-serious at this point. I'm not a fan of how quickly you went to light AtE about last game when pushed about contributions. In my experience, AtE slowly develops and then explodes. It doesn't get rolled out the moment you get slightly prodded lol. If it was Voss that would be one thing, but DM and matt have nothing to do with last game.

    I'm not very impressed by the "citi claims are bad" insight either =P.
    Although I also am unimpressed by Renegade's game and definetly want him to say more, I have to say it's not the first time he brings up "veteran oppression", so it's nothing new.
    Quote Originally Posted by Auwt View Post
    Flips won't help that much.
    If you see a Sheriff claim down, we won't be able to find out whether it was a green or pink sheriff.
    What it can do however is narrowing the setup exact choice.
    True, but as you said it will make it easier to see which setup we're in. Flips can still help out at least a bit if we catch mafia, too.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    it looks like many, e.g. MM and lag, suffered under the influence of paopan. However there is a victim: frinckles. He left the path of rationality and fully dived into the parallel reality of baby shark, king shark, and soviet union pizzas.
    Spoiler : The meaning of life :

  6. ISO #356

  7. ISO #357

    Re: ILLUMINΔTI (Ladder) 9P

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Although I also am unimpressed by Renegade's game and definetly want him to say more, I have to say it's not the first time he brings up "veteran oppression", so it's nothing new.


    True, but as you said it will make it easier to see which setup we're in. Flips can still help out at least a bit if we catch mafia, too.
    Who exactly are you impressed by then? Mesk? Asking for a friend.

  8. ISO #358

    Re: ILLUMINΔTI (Ladder) 9P

    Quote Originally Posted by Auwt View Post
    Either I didn't sleep well, or I didn't understand how the conspiracy theorist work.
    Quote Originally Posted by Auwt View Post
    I still don't understand why you would recant N1.
    Either you become neutral against the town.
    Or you die with the only role able to find out a pink scum.

    What's the deal?
    Quote Originally Posted by Auwt View Post
    The fact is, if you end up Jester, you ain't gonna get lynched this game anyway with your claim, so you lose.
    If you end up Amnesiac you should have to be lynched, and will most likely lose.
    If you end up Survivor you ain't gonna get lynched, but we would never know your role and therefore could be considered as Jester/Amnesiac, so you might also lose.
    If you end up killing yourself, so you lose.

    Do you see it coming?

    I will be honest, either way, with your claim, and the night action you want to do, you are almost certainly dooming yourself.
    Now it's up to you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Auwt View Post
    I'm echoing this.
    +town point for you yzb.
    This progression seems very natural and is pretty much what I'd have showed if I had been reading the thread "late" like Auwt did. I also happen to agree with everything he said, minus the "we aren't lynching you if you're jester", because we are: there's no downside to lynching the jester.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    it looks like many, e.g. MM and lag, suffered under the influence of paopan. However there is a victim: frinckles. He left the path of rationality and fully dived into the parallel reality of baby shark, king shark, and soviet union pizzas.
    Spoiler : The meaning of life :

  9. ISO #359

    Re: ILLUMINΔTI (Ladder) 9P

    Here's how I see the game:

    -Mesk lame cit claim
    -DM lame cit claim, suggests his own mislynch (???) and then becomes hyperfocused on me, mm, and mz, okay then
    -yzb some chiming here and there, null
    -auwt i like his contributions and his marino scrutiny so far
    -mm actually making some decent points
    -mz makes several points I do agree with
    -martino very disappointed by the play but let's see how he pans out
    -frinkle kind of low energy which is NAI for him IMO but I'm okay with my vote here for now

  10. ISO #360

  11. ISO #361

  12. ISO #362

    Re: ILLUMINΔTI (Ladder) 9P

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Nice cherrypicking :P you left out the reasoning behind what happened there and made it look like it was some weird anomaly.








    This is rather self-explainatory and obvious; Mesk is experienced, so I would expect her to pick up on that. The fact she doesn't leads me to think Mesk either really doesn't like me and lets this cloud her judgment, or is simply... scum. And while the former isn't impossible, the latter is getting more and more likely; I don't see anything that indicates she is town, and I now see things that indicate she's scum.
    also, if you're town, insulting me isn't going to help anyone :P
    Pretty sure your posts here are after everything I was talking about 😂😂😂 but I said that last night and it's a whole new day now. Who the fuck know what i was looking at at 12am.

    Anyways, you seem to be focused on the fact you think I'm pushing you as if you're scum. I'm not even pushing you. I am rebuttaling your weak and feeble reads. You are a sheep and nothing more and you're the one being played. So in the end... jokes on you
    Get your head out of MZ's ass, he has a girlfriend
    Quote Originally Posted by AnassRhamur View Post
    Please don't post in the punished players section if you're not involved. Consider this a warning from Thugnificent. You got one Thug ticket. Collect 3 more of those and i'll have to issue a Thug Infraction. Collect 3 Thug Infractions and you get 1 Thug Misdemeanor Charge.

    Spoiler : :
    Citizen, Agent, Citizen, Vigilante, Citizen, Godfather, Citizen, Citizen, Voter, Elder, Mafioso, BackUpSleuth, Escort, Mafioso, Detective, Citizen, Citizen, Tailor, Citizen, Citizen, Citizen, Citizen, Citizen, Citizen, TheJoker, Citizen, LadyGaga, Mafioso, Winston Wolfe, Detective, Citizen, Citizen, Masquerader

  13. ISO #363

    Re: ILLUMINΔTI (Ladder) 9P

    How am I always the last one to kill the convo -.-
    Quote Originally Posted by AnassRhamur View Post
    Please don't post in the punished players section if you're not involved. Consider this a warning from Thugnificent. You got one Thug ticket. Collect 3 more of those and i'll have to issue a Thug Infraction. Collect 3 Thug Infractions and you get 1 Thug Misdemeanor Charge.

    Spoiler : :
    Citizen, Agent, Citizen, Vigilante, Citizen, Godfather, Citizen, Citizen, Voter, Elder, Mafioso, BackUpSleuth, Escort, Mafioso, Detective, Citizen, Citizen, Tailor, Citizen, Citizen, Citizen, Citizen, Citizen, Citizen, TheJoker, Citizen, LadyGaga, Mafioso, Winston Wolfe, Detective, Citizen, Citizen, Masquerader

  14. ISO #364

    Re: ILLUMINΔTI (Ladder) 9P

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    Who exactly are you impressed by then? Mesk? Asking for a friend.
    "Unimpressed" is an understatement compared to just "not impressed", but anyway. I rather like your list here:

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    Here's how I see the game:

    -Mesk lame cit claim
    -DM lame cit claim, suggests his own mislynch (???) and then becomes hyperfocused on me, mm, and mz, okay then
    -yzb some chiming here and there, null
    -auwt i like his contributions and his marino scrutiny so far
    -mm actually making some decent points
    -mz makes several points I do agree with
    -martino very disappointed by the play but let's see how he pans out
    -frinkle kind of low energy which is NAI for him IMO but I'm okay with my vote here for now
    even though it's nothing amazing or new, it's relatable, so not too bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    it looks like many, e.g. MM and lag, suffered under the influence of paopan. However there is a victim: frinckles. He left the path of rationality and fully dived into the parallel reality of baby shark, king shark, and soviet union pizzas.
    Spoiler : The meaning of life :

  15. ISO #365

    Re: ILLUMINΔTI (Ladder) 9P

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    This progression seems very natural and is pretty much what I'd have showed if I had been reading the thread "late" like Auwt did. I also happen to agree with everything he said, minus the "we aren't lynching you if you're jester", because we are: there's no downside to lynching the jester.
    Also, I had to go so I posted quickly, but my conclusion was missing: because of his seemingly natural and highly relatable progression, I think Auwt is town.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    it looks like many, e.g. MM and lag, suffered under the influence of paopan. However there is a victim: frinckles. He left the path of rationality and fully dived into the parallel reality of baby shark, king shark, and soviet union pizzas.
    Spoiler : The meaning of life :

  16. ISO #366

    Re: ILLUMINΔTI (Ladder) 9P

    Ok so I came to a conclusion.
    Well, a game solve.

    Illuminati does indeed exist.

    There a 3 Possibilities of what scum rolled this game.


    Possibility 1:
    Frinckles/Renegade Mafia with Rene Illuminati
    MM Illuminati
    Matt Illuminati

    Possibility 2:
    MM/Matt Mafia with Matt as Illuminati.
    Frinckles/Rene Masons with Rene as Illuminati
    Mesk is last Illuminati

    Possibility 3:
    Frinckles/Rene Mafia with Rene as Illuminati
    MM/Matt Masons with Matt as Illuminati
    Mesk is last Illuminati

  17. ISO #367

    Re: ILLUMINΔTI (Ladder) 9P

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Magician View Post
    Ok so I came to a conclusion.
    Well, a game solve.

    Illuminati does indeed exist.

    There a 3 Possibilities of what scum rolled this game.


    Possibility 1:
    Frinckles/Renegade Mafia with Rene Illuminati
    MM Illuminati
    Matt Illuminati

    Possibility 2:
    MM/Matt Mafia with Matt as Illuminati.
    Frinckles/Rene Masons with Rene as Illuminati
    Mesk is last Illuminati

    Possibility 3:
    Frinckles/Rene Mafia with Rene as Illuminati
    MM/Matt Masons with Matt as Illuminati
    Mesk is last Illuminati
    How

    about

    Matt/MM aren't illuminati?

    Aside from him assailing me about a n1 recant possibility (which I've later decided to not do), fmpov I felt that Matt was towny in both A/D and non-A/D worlds.

    Anything against Matt is just tinfoil imo, and if you disagree I would very much like to hear a case of some sort from you rather than just "matt is illuminati".

    I kinda haven't looked into MM all that much but since Matt says the magical word mindmeld earlier at some point I'm inclined to give him a pass.
    A.K.A "That One Idiot"

  18. ISO #368

    Re: ILLUMINΔTI (Ladder) 9P

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Magician View Post
    Ok so I came to a conclusion.
    Well, a game solve.

    Illuminati does indeed exist.

    There a 3 Possibilities of what scum rolled this game.


    Possibility 1:
    Frinckles/Renegade Mafia with Rene Illuminati
    MM Illuminati
    Matt Illuminati

    Possibility 2:
    MM/Matt Mafia with Matt as Illuminati.
    Frinckles/Rene Masons with Rene as Illuminati
    Mesk is last Illuminati

    Possibility 3:
    Frinckles/Rene Mafia with Rene as Illuminati
    MM/Matt Masons with Matt as Illuminati
    Mesk is last Illuminati
    So auwt doesn't exist in the game? Cute
    Quote Originally Posted by AnassRhamur View Post
    Please don't post in the punished players section if you're not involved. Consider this a warning from Thugnificent. You got one Thug ticket. Collect 3 more of those and i'll have to issue a Thug Infraction. Collect 3 Thug Infractions and you get 1 Thug Misdemeanor Charge.

    Spoiler : :
    Citizen, Agent, Citizen, Vigilante, Citizen, Godfather, Citizen, Citizen, Voter, Elder, Mafioso, BackUpSleuth, Escort, Mafioso, Detective, Citizen, Citizen, Tailor, Citizen, Citizen, Citizen, Citizen, Citizen, Citizen, TheJoker, Citizen, LadyGaga, Mafioso, Winston Wolfe, Detective, Citizen, Citizen, Masquerader

  19. ISO #369

    Re: ILLUMINΔTI (Ladder) 9P

    mm pushing mesk rn does not look pro town from where I'm sitting. I deliberately abstained from drawing too much of a judgement early on because I'm aware of my own shortcomings while reading the slot. You pushing mesk here rather than giving us actual insights would be like me pushing matt except times 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    naz, he's claiming to have been at your house last night and infected you. I know u were drunk but PLEASE try as hard as you can to remember... That burning you felt the next morning when you went pee was from me, not him.

  20. ISO #370

    Re: ILLUMINΔTI (Ladder) 9P

    -vote Marshmallow Marshall


    I'ma leaving this here. I feel like there's a scum in marsh/matt and one is pocketing the other. Matt had some bleeding town moments that give me pause for him rn. So I'ma see what happens if I do dis
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    naz, he's claiming to have been at your house last night and infected you. I know u were drunk but PLEASE try as hard as you can to remember... That burning you felt the next morning when you went pee was from me, not him.

  21. ISO #371

    Re: ILLUMINΔTI (Ladder) 9P

    Quote Originally Posted by Frinckles View Post
    Oh and I definitely recommend the Better Settlers app for generating the board unless you're doing it to OG way.
    had no idea you were into catan. If we find a couple others maybe we could have a skwirl/sc2mafia catan game. I'll give it a try in the post-game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    naz, he's claiming to have been at your house last night and infected you. I know u were drunk but PLEASE try as hard as you can to remember... That burning you felt the next morning when you went pee was from me, not him.

  22. ISO #372

    Re: ILLUMINΔTI (Ladder) 9P

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Magician View Post
    Ok so I came to a conclusion.
    Well, a game solve.

    Illuminati does indeed exist.

    There a 3 Possibilities of what scum rolled this game.


    Possibility 1:
    Frinckles/Renegade Mafia with Rene Illuminati
    MM Illuminati
    Matt Illuminati

    Possibility 2:
    MM/Matt Mafia with Matt as Illuminati.
    Frinckles/Rene Masons with Rene as Illuminati
    Mesk is last Illuminati

    Possibility 3:
    Frinckles/Rene Mafia with Rene as Illuminati
    MM/Matt Masons with Matt as Illuminati
    Mesk is last Illuminati
    Could the people townreading DM please explain the town motivation here? I'm seeing someone who thinks the Illuminati exists but didn't try to talk Martin out of recanting tonight. I'm also seeing reads almost pulled out nowhere that give scumreads to everyone suspicious of him.
    @Marshmallow Marshall , I'm *really* getting "Mike from Eternia" vibes here. He's tunneled in on a target (you/me) and just trying to throw everything into the context of that tunnel to look like he's contributing. How is this different from what Mike did to Frinckles?
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrow View Post
    What. You got me. Stop unvoting and stretch my neck, dammit.

  23. ISO #373

    Re: ILLUMINΔTI (Ladder) 9P

    @Dark Magician , if you're town, there are SEVERAL things I'd like explained:

    1. If you so strongly believe there's an Illuminati, why weren't you trying to talk Martin out of recanting?
    2. Why do you think Frinckles and Renegade share a night chat? (And where are you getting that Renegade is an Illuminati trying to eliminate his partner??)
    3. Why is Mesk "last Illuminati"?
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrow View Post
    What. You got me. Stop unvoting and stretch my neck, dammit.

  24. ISO #374

    Re: ILLUMINΔTI (Ladder) 9P

    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    mm pushing mesk rn does not look pro town from where I'm sitting. I deliberately abstained from drawing too much of a judgement early on because I'm aware of my own shortcomings while reading the slot. You pushing mesk here rather than giving us actual insights would be like me pushing matt except times 100
    Wait, so even if I scumread Mesk, I should not say it because it somehow is anti-town to voice my read on her and to place my vote where my mouth and brain are? That's news to me :P can you explain further? Especially since you're basing a read you believe to be TvS between Matt and I on our "compared townness":
    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    -vote Marshmallow Marshall


    I'ma leaving this here. I feel like there's a scum in marsh/matt and one is pocketing the other. Matt had some bleeding town moments that give me pause for him rn. So I'ma see what happens if I do dis
    I'd also like to see where Matt "bled town" to you.

    Unrelated:
    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    had no idea you were into catan. If we find a couple others maybe we could have a skwirl/sc2mafia catan game. I'll give it a try in the post-game.
    I've only heard about it and tried to play with people who didn't know to play once IRL, it didn't go so well and everyone was confused... but I'm willing to give it a try if we're getting into that xD, didn't know it existed online
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    it looks like many, e.g. MM and lag, suffered under the influence of paopan. However there is a victim: frinckles. He left the path of rationality and fully dived into the parallel reality of baby shark, king shark, and soviet union pizzas.
    Spoiler : The meaning of life :

  25. ISO #375

    Re: ILLUMINΔTI (Ladder) 9P

    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    I deliberately abstained from drawing too much of a judgement early on because I'm aware of my own shortcomings while reading the slot.
    this was in reference to mattzed. I have no idea why i didn't explicitly say that. it's late af
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    naz, he's claiming to have been at your house last night and infected you. I know u were drunk but PLEASE try as hard as you can to remember... That burning you felt the next morning when you went pee was from me, not him.

  26. ISO #376

    Re: ILLUMINΔTI (Ladder) 9P

    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    -vote Marshmallow Marshall


    I'ma leaving this here. I feel like there's a scum in marsh/matt and one is pocketing the other. Matt had some bleeding town moments that give me pause for him rn. So I'ma see what happens if I do dis
    I'm not scumreading you for voting, but could you explain the case on MM? A seemingly random vote on someone with no other votes is pretty hard to react to. If you want to see if someone's giving a sincere reaction, give them something to react to.

    MM and I don't share a night chat, and I really don't think MM is pocketing me. He's been on the same wavelength with me for basically the whole game, and some things he's been able to post before I do. (I'm thinking especially of how we had the instinct to prod Frinckles at the same time) I find it highly unlikely he's able to replicate my perspective unless he's also town. I'd be very surprised if MM was Mafia or Illuminati.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrow View Post
    What. You got me. Stop unvoting and stretch my neck, dammit.

  27. ISO #377

    Re: ILLUMINΔTI (Ladder) 9P

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Wait, so even if I scumread Mesk, I should not say it because it somehow is anti-town to voice my read on her and to place my vote where my mouth and brain are? That's news to me :P can you explain further? Especially since you're basing a read you believe to be TvS between Matt and I on our "compared townness":

    I'd also like to see where Matt "bled town" to you.

    Unrelated:


    I've only heard about it and tried to play with people who didn't know to play once IRL, it didn't go so well and everyone was confused... but I'm willing to give it a try if we're getting into that xD, didn't know it existed online
    No, I just expect it not to be the thing you push. There's other scums + you can give urself time to be more introspective / patient about drawing a conclusion. That's what I'd do.

    It was in successfully convining martin to take a more pro-town action with his neut role. But he could have also done that because he saw his setup baby getting brutally beaten to death. I acknowledge that. It just seemed sincere.

    it's not as complex as it may initially seem. the base game is only a bit more complicated than monopoly imo
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    naz, he's claiming to have been at your house last night and infected you. I know u were drunk but PLEASE try as hard as you can to remember... That burning you felt the next morning when you went pee was from me, not him.

  28. ISO #378

    Re: ILLUMINΔTI (Ladder) 9P

    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    mm pushing mesk rn does not look pro town from where I'm sitting. I deliberately abstained from drawing too much of a judgement early on because I'm aware of my own shortcomings while reading the slot. You pushing mesk here rather than giving us actual insights would be like me pushing matt except times 100
    I missed this post. Going to mini-ISO MM to see if MM was pushing Mesk with false confidence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrow View Post
    What. You got me. Stop unvoting and stretch my neck, dammit.

  29. ISO #379

    Re: ILLUMINΔTI (Ladder) 9P

    Quote Originally Posted by MattZed View Post
    Could the people townreading DM please explain the town motivation here? I'm seeing someone who thinks the Illuminati exists but didn't try to talk Martin out of recanting tonight. I'm also seeing reads almost pulled out nowhere that give scumreads to everyone suspicious of him.
    @Marshmallow Marshall , I'm *really* getting "Mike from Eternia" vibes here. He's tunneled in on a target (you/me) and just trying to throw everything into the context of that tunnel to look like he's contributing. How is this different from what Mike did to Frinckles?
    There's a lot of bullshit (in fact, I think I have yet to see a read based on something you can base a read on...), and I'm honestly considering the policy lynch option. It's not that I see a specific town motivation other than trying to solve (very poorly), it's rather that I don't see a scum motivation (his pushes are too bad to work at all).
    As for "Mike from Eternia", the difference is that Mike's push was on someone who was actually playing in a scummy manner and who actively avoided questions (Frinckles). It could (and did) result in an actual mislynch, which was good for scum. But here, nobody will believe DM's push because it's completely nonsensical, which makes it pointless to do as scum, strange WIFOM aside. So really, it's half a conspiracy theory imo to consider what DM is doing as terribly weird scum play rather than considering it as town being completely illogical. Now, I'm not against policy lynches when there is nothing better to do; it'd just be nice if we could get something better to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    it looks like many, e.g. MM and lag, suffered under the influence of paopan. However there is a victim: frinckles. He left the path of rationality and fully dived into the parallel reality of baby shark, king shark, and soviet union pizzas.
    Spoiler : The meaning of life :

  30. ISO #380

    Re: ILLUMINΔTI (Ladder) 9P

    Quote Originally Posted by MattZed View Post
    I'm not scumreading you for voting, but could you explain the case on MM? A seemingly random vote on someone with no other votes is pretty hard to react to. If you want to see if someone's giving a sincere reaction, give them something to react to.

    MM and I don't share a night chat, and I really don't think MM is pocketing me. He's been on the same wavelength with me for basically the whole game, and some things he's been able to post before I do. (I'm thinking especially of how we had the instinct to prod Frinckles at the same time) I find it highly unlikely he's able to replicate my perspective unless he's also town. I'd be very surprised if MM was Mafia or Illuminati.
    my reasoning is literally that short. him and mesk is a little heavy. But this post:

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Nice cherrypicking :P you left out the reasoning behind what happened there and made it look like it was some weird anomaly.








    This is rather self-explainatory and obvious; Mesk is experienced, so I would expect her to pick up on that. The fact she doesn't leads me to think Mesk either really doesn't like me and lets this cloud her judgment, or is simply... scum. And while the former isn't impossible, the latter is getting more and more likely; I don't see anything that indicates she is town, and I now see things that indicate she's scum.
    also, if you're town, insulting me isn't going to help anyone :P
    was so ridiculously overkill for what it was actually about. Mesk probably low-effort misread something. Waxing the carrot about how she's an "experienced player" and "wouldn't make a mistake like that" is so weird because it doesn't make sense for her to do that as scum either if it's just gonna get pointed out as a misread lol.

    I'm not sure whether their beef is clouding their judgement, idk. But I want to see MM interact more with players other than mesk. The contributions he's shared on others are okay, but within his ability to fabricate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    naz, he's claiming to have been at your house last night and infected you. I know u were drunk but PLEASE try as hard as you can to remember... That burning you felt the next morning when you went pee was from me, not him.

  31. ISO #381

    Re: ILLUMINΔTI (Ladder) 9P

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    Mesk claiming cit is literally of no value whatsoever. It's like she didn't post. She'd post that as anything. Let's keep the WIFOM alive and move on.
    This is the only post I can find where MM is showing any hesitancy about scumreading Mesk, and it's very early on. It's pretty clear to me that MM wasn't fully on board voting Mesk at the time but was fine joining me to apply pressure and get the game moving. It all feels very pro-town and genuine: he's okay voting Mesk, but he doesn't want to oversell it, and he followed up by voting Frinckles when Mesk signed off. (showing he's interested in getting material from everyone, not in finding a place to park his vote)

    @yzb25 , if there's something I'm missing, please point it out. I really can't follow your case atm.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrow View Post
    What. You got me. Stop unvoting and stretch my neck, dammit.

  32. ISO #382

    Re: ILLUMINΔTI (Ladder) 9P

    Quote Originally Posted by MattZed View Post
    This is the only post I can find where MM is showing any hesitancy about scumreading Mesk, and it's very early on. It's pretty clear to me that MM wasn't fully on board voting Mesk at the time but was fine joining me to apply pressure and get the game moving. It all feels very pro-town and genuine: he's okay voting Mesk, but he doesn't want to oversell it, and he followed up by voting Frinckles when Mesk signed off. (showing he's interested in getting material from everyone, not in finding a place to park his vote)

    @yzb25 , if there's something I'm missing, please point it out. I really can't follow your case atm.
    read what I just posted
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    naz, he's claiming to have been at your house last night and infected you. I know u were drunk but PLEASE try as hard as you can to remember... That burning you felt the next morning when you went pee was from me, not him.

  33. ISO #383

    Re: ILLUMINΔTI (Ladder) 9P

    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    was so ridiculously overkill for what it was actually about. Mesk probably low-effort misread something. Waxing the carrot about how she's an "experienced player" and "wouldn't make a mistake like that" is so weird because it doesn't make sense for her to do that as scum either if it's just gonna get pointed out as a misread lol.

    I'm not sure whether their beef is clouding their judgement, idk. But I want to see MM interact more with players other than mesk. The contributions he's shared on others are okay, but within his ability to fabricate.
    I'm reading this much more as MM defending himself than going after Mesk. (note that he didn't vote her)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrow View Post
    What. You got me. Stop unvoting and stretch my neck, dammit.

  34. ISO #384

    Re: ILLUMINΔTI (Ladder) 9P

    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    No, I just expect it not to be the thing you push. There's other scums + you can give urself time to be more introspective / patient about drawing a conclusion. That's what I'd do.

    It was in successfully convining martin to take a more pro-town action with his neut role. But he could have also done that because he saw his setup baby getting brutally beaten to death. I acknowledge that. It just seemed sincere.

    it's not as complex as it may initially seem. the base game is only a bit more complicated than monopoly imo
    I mean, the things I push are my scumreads. That's what town should do. It doesn't mean I'm tunnelled against Mesk; my other reads are still developping. But expecting me not to push my scumreads is a little bit illogical, so I'm honestly not sure where you're going with that lol. Does Mattzed become scum because he's been pushing DM, his scumread, a lot? Note that I'm not saying he is scummy for that at all, I'm saying that's where your logic leads, and it's wrong. Am I missing something?

    Suggesting correct mechanical play is definetly not beyond Mattzed's scum range imo, but I can see where you come from there, and still find it somewhat valid due to the apparent sincerity, as you said.

    And ok ^^ not saying those people were super focused anyway lol...
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    it looks like many, e.g. MM and lag, suffered under the influence of paopan. However there is a victim: frinckles. He left the path of rationality and fully dived into the parallel reality of baby shark, king shark, and soviet union pizzas.
    Spoiler : The meaning of life :

  35. ISO #385

    Re: ILLUMINΔTI (Ladder) 9P

    Quote Originally Posted by MattZed View Post
    I'm reading this much more as MM defending himself than going after Mesk. (note that he didn't vote her)
    are you sure you're understanding MM's post. If anything the post is a defense of you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    naz, he's claiming to have been at your house last night and infected you. I know u were drunk but PLEASE try as hard as you can to remember... That burning you felt the next morning when you went pee was from me, not him.

  36. ISO #386

    Re: ILLUMINΔTI (Ladder) 9P

    To followup: I think missing context after it's been pointed out several times is scummy. When MM says Mesk is experienced, he's implying experienced town try to tell the truth and avoid misreps, while experienced scum actively try to distort the narrative. (instead of just "pretending to be town" like inexperienced scum). @Marshmallow Marshall , is this an accurate summary of what you meant there?


    I also don't think he's only focused on Mesk atm. (notice the talk about DM and the vote being on Frinckles)
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrow View Post
    What. You got me. Stop unvoting and stretch my neck, dammit.

  37. ISO #387

    Re: ILLUMINΔTI (Ladder) 9P

    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    my reasoning is literally that short. him and mesk is a little heavy. But this post:



    was so ridiculously overkill for what it was actually about. Mesk probably low-effort misread something. Waxing the carrot about how she's an "experienced player" and "wouldn't make a mistake like that" is so weird because it doesn't make sense for her to do that as scum either if it's just gonna get pointed out as a misread lol.

    I'm not sure whether their beef is clouding their judgement, idk. But I want to see MM interact more with players other than mesk. The contributions he's shared on others are okay, but within his ability to fabricate.
    I mean, you're literally ignoring the interactions I've had with Mattzed, that I've tried to have with Frinckles but failed to (speaking of that, where is he?), had with Renegade, gave my read on Auwt (which I'm rather confident about btw), and with DM, so... there's no "lack of interaction". Now, if you don't townread me for those other interactions, that's something I can accept; but saying they don't exist is wrong.

    As for Mesk on my vote against Mattzed early on, it's really hard to miss the reason. There's literally a screenshot from Mattzed that's not even in a spoiler. As I said, I'm not closing the door to a town!Mesk possibility, but it's pretty hard to buy the discredit.

    Anyway, once again I'm really not sure what you're trying to achieve with that vote against me; it seems out of place. Not saying it's necessarily scummy, but I don't understand where you're coming from assuming you have a town PoV.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    it looks like many, e.g. MM and lag, suffered under the influence of paopan. However there is a victim: frinckles. He left the path of rationality and fully dived into the parallel reality of baby shark, king shark, and soviet union pizzas.
    Spoiler : The meaning of life :

  38. ISO #388

    Re: ILLUMINΔTI (Ladder) 9P

    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    are you sure you're understanding MM's post. If anything the post is a defense of you.
    I'm pretty sure Mesk was accusing MM of being inconsistent by going from scumreading me to suddenly joining me on the Mesk train. Mesk was going after me, but *MM's* post was about how MM getting on the train wasn't a wild inconsistency.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrow View Post
    What. You got me. Stop unvoting and stretch my neck, dammit.

  39. ISO #389

    Re: ILLUMINΔTI (Ladder) 9P

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    I mean, the things I push are my scumreads. That's what town should do. It doesn't mean I'm tunnelled against Mesk; my other reads are still developping. But expecting me not to push my scumreads is a little bit illogical, so I'm honestly not sure where you're going with that lol. Does Mattzed become scum because he's been pushing DM, his scumread, a lot? Note that I'm not saying he is scummy for that at all, I'm saying that's where your logic leads, and it's wrong. Am I missing something?
    I guess I was thinking of that specific post when I voted you. (#351) It didn't look genuine. And it just seemed like a weird thing to take away from mesk's votes back there. Pushing anyone is great I guess. Maybe I'm just pulling shit out my ass to justify what my gut feels lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    naz, he's claiming to have been at your house last night and infected you. I know u were drunk but PLEASE try as hard as you can to remember... That burning you felt the next morning when you went pee was from me, not him.

  40. ISO #390

    Re: ILLUMINΔTI (Ladder) 9P

    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    I guess I was thinking of that specific post when I voted you. (#351) It didn't look genuine. And it just seemed like a weird thing to take away from mesk's votes back there. Pushing anyone is great I guess. Maybe I'm just pulling shit out my ass to justify what my gut feels lol.
    Very interesting choice of words for a man with a toilet avatar.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrow View Post
    What. You got me. Stop unvoting and stretch my neck, dammit.

  41. ISO #391

  42. ISO #392

    Re: ILLUMINΔTI (Ladder) 9P

    Quote Originally Posted by MattZed View Post
    I'm pretty sure Mesk was accusing MM of being inconsistent by going from scumreading me to suddenly joining me on the Mesk train. Mesk was going after me, but *MM's* post was about how MM getting on the train wasn't a wild inconsistency.
    omg I'm such an imbecile. Someone should ban me from posting in games past a certain time. My brain is half in the trash LOL.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    naz, he's claiming to have been at your house last night and infected you. I know u were drunk but PLEASE try as hard as you can to remember... That burning you felt the next morning when you went pee was from me, not him.

  43. ISO #393

    Re: ILLUMINΔTI (Ladder) 9P

    Quote Originally Posted by MattZed View Post
    To followup: I think missing context after it's been pointed out several times is scummy. When MM says Mesk is experienced, he's implying experienced town try to tell the truth and avoid misreps, while experienced scum actively try to distort the narrative. (instead of just "pretending to be town" like inexperienced scum). @Marshmallow Marshall , is this an accurate summary of what you meant there?


    I also don't think he's only focused on Mesk atm. (notice the talk about DM and the vote being on Frinckles)
    Close. I'm saying/implying an experienced townie will check the vote and the circumstances around it to make a read on it instead of erasing the context and then putting it in a light of scum theatre (I guess that's what you call "misreps"), while a scum will do the opposite. There's always the possibility of the honest mistake because we are human beings (and to this adds the possibility of "beef" clouding judgment, as yzb put it), hence why I'm not saying she DEFINETLY is scum and why I'm not even voting her, but right now, because of this and because of the complete lack of towny elements from Mesk, I consider her as "rand
    Also yzb, the post in question isn't a defense of anyone, it rather is an attack against Mesk for doing something scummy. Again, I don't see what is misinterpretable in there lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    it looks like many, e.g. MM and lag, suffered under the influence of paopan. However there is a victim: frinckles. He left the path of rationality and fully dived into the parallel reality of baby shark, king shark, and soviet union pizzas.
    Spoiler : The meaning of life :

  44. ISO #394

    Re: ILLUMINΔTI (Ladder) 9P

    For the record, I think I'm scumreading Mesk for different reasons than MM: My scumread is based on Mesk's OMGUS reaction and lack of willingness to vote DM for doing something that made her "weary." MM seems more inclined to think MM is powerwolfing by intentionally misrepping me and MM. tbh, I think Mesk genuinely missed the context of the screenshot I posted. Mesk said she was on her phone last night, and I'm inclined to believe the screenshot simply didn't display well on her device.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrow View Post
    What. You got me. Stop unvoting and stretch my neck, dammit.

  45. ISO #395

    Re: ILLUMINΔTI (Ladder) 9P

    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    I guess I was thinking of that specific post when I voted you. (#351) It didn't look genuine. And it just seemed like a weird thing to take away from mesk's votes back there. Pushing anyone is great I guess. Maybe I'm just pulling shit out my ass to justify what my gut feels lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    omg I'm such an imbecile. Someone should ban me from posting in games past a certain time. My brain is half in the trash LOL.
    I think I'm giving a "derpclear by reasoning" townpoints bulk here lol, because if yzb has been faking an erroneous but consistent (with itself, not with reality) reasoning, my hat's off to him.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    it looks like many, e.g. MM and lag, suffered under the influence of paopan. However there is a victim: frinckles. He left the path of rationality and fully dived into the parallel reality of baby shark, king shark, and soviet union pizzas.
    Spoiler : The meaning of life :

  46. ISO #396

    Re: ILLUMINΔTI (Ladder) 9P

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall View Post
    I think I'm giving a "derpclear by reasoning" townpoints bulk here lol, because if yzb has been faking an erroneous but consistent (with itself, not with reality) reasoning, my hat's off to him.
    thank god because I would scumread myself for what I just posted LOL
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    naz, he's claiming to have been at your house last night and infected you. I know u were drunk but PLEASE try as hard as you can to remember... That burning you felt the next morning when you went pee was from me, not him.

  47. ISO #397

    Re: ILLUMINΔTI (Ladder) 9P

    oh no this is going to become one of those things that wakes me up shivering in a cold sweat in the middle of the night in 6 months. I thought I'd moved past this.

    I'm tempted to try and end the IRL night on a better note but I think I'd just cock it up again LOL

    I'm just gonna take the L on this one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkstorteddd02 View Post
    naz, he's claiming to have been at your house last night and infected you. I know u were drunk but PLEASE try as hard as you can to remember... That burning you felt the next morning when you went pee was from me, not him.

  48. ISO #398

  49. ISO #399

  50. ISO #400

    Re: ILLUMINΔTI (Ladder) 9P

    Quote Originally Posted by MattZed View Post
    For the record, I think I'm scumreading Mesk for different reasons than MM: My scumread is based on Mesk's OMGUS reaction and lack of willingness to vote DM for doing something that made her "weary." MM seems more inclined to think MM is powerwolfing by intentionally misrepping me and MM. tbh, I think Mesk genuinely missed the context of the screenshot I posted. Mesk said she was on her phone last night, and I'm inclined to believe the screenshot simply didn't display well on her device.
    I don't think she's much into the voting game on D1 in general, which, while it is not pro-town, doesn't really indicate much imo.
    I think this is probably digging too far, but I'll say it anyway: Mesk looked like she wasn't on her phone anymore when she posted that, specifically saying that now that "she had time" we were all gone. I don't want to go too far into such hypotheses though, it's likely not to bring to good places.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    ANYWAY, this entire discussion completely put those who didn't partake in it, minus Mesk, out of the spotlight. I've just looked at Frinckles' ISO, and really, the new posts are strictly about Martin or just meaningless (like "I'm re-reading people by the way" or talking about Catan). I'm happy with where my vote is right now. @Frinckles , what are your reads on people? More specifically on DM.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawyer View Post
    Besides your lamp and your refridgerators, do you find anyone else suspicious?
    Quote Originally Posted by oliverz144 View Post
    it looks like many, e.g. MM and lag, suffered under the influence of paopan. However there is a victim: frinckles. He left the path of rationality and fully dived into the parallel reality of baby shark, king shark, and soviet union pizzas.
    Spoiler : The meaning of life :

 

 

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