S-FM 196: QT 3.14

[Firebringer]

Enough are here to move to PLZLEAVEDUCKK

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

My problem right now is I could lynch Unknown cause he is in my nullish town reads, but Id highly prefer to go with PLZLEAVEDUCKK

Unknown could have easily hammered you. You arent lynching him, you better focus that tunnel right on me buddy.

[MattZed]

Do you think it is easier or harder for mafia to find their partner in the QT if there is no lynch?

It would be harder, because a flip either tells them who their partner is (if mafia flips) or tells them one person who isn't their partner (if town flips). Beyond this, however, I don't see a D1 flip affecting scum's ability to find partners.

[Helz]

Unknown could have easily hammered you. You arent lynching him, you better focus that tunnel right on me buddy.

I really do disagree with your reasoning that him not hammering in any way points to him being town..

[Firebringer]

Unknown could have easily hammered you. You arent lynching him, you better focus that tunnel right on me buddy.

Just because he didn't hammer me doesn't mean there isn't a small chance he is scum. I know my alignment its town. I don't have 100% on him. I am not even at 80% with him being town.

[BananaCucho]

It would be harder, because a flip either tells them who their partner is (if mafia flips) or tells them one person who isn't their partner (if town flips). Beyond this, however, I don't see a D1 flip affecting scum's ability to find partners.

If we lynch scum we eliminate the possibility of them finding their partner and collaborating. Sure they get a night kill but I prefer that to them finding out who each other are.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

I really do disagree with your reasoning that him not hammering in any way points to him being town..

That is fine to disagree. Unknown was previously at L-1, and many players had stated they were wanting to lynch him. It is very plausible for him to take fire out of the game, try to defend it, and worst case scenario get a 1 for 1 trade over just being lynched himself day 1.

Do you think I want to defend the guy who I called 100% mafia, especially when Fire is pushing me so hard. I should be pushing the lynch on him and trying to get it off me, especially after fire said he would be willing.

[Helz]

I will voice again that, due to the lack of a night kill, I would rather have today slip into no-lynch than have us lynch someone largely out of apathy.

We could actually take this position over and over again and draw the game out for as much chat as we wanted in QT's..

I will say though that I doubt anybody is going to be certain of scum at any point in this game. D1 reads is something I excel at and I pride myself in being able to nail scum D1 much more often than not but with Scum not being informed we are crippled in hunting for them. The difference between scum and town is just so small in this setup its painful which shifts the things we can observe scum doing in day chat. I would say that we have to consider, What is an acceptable level of certainty and how will anything be different right now than later once we have private chats?

[Helz]

If we lynch scum we eliminate the possibility of them finding their partner and collaborating. Sure they get a night kill but I prefer that to them finding out who each other are.

The real value I see in lynching a scum is that it moves the remaining scum into a 100% informed perspective. He will then have the game solved and there will be a massive difference between him and the rest of the town as far as his perspective. That will make him much easier for me to find.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Fire do you have a reason for scum reading me other than what I mentioned in my recent ISO on you? Do you disagree with any of my rebuttal, do you have anything else on me?

[Firebringer]

Fire do you have a reason for scum reading me other than what I mentioned in my recent ISO on you? Do you disagree with any of my rebuttal, do you have anything else on me?

I don't think you are town, I think I mentioned why, and you keep using the word "pocket" for what is not a pocket is what bothers me most about you tbh.

[MattZed]

We could actually take this position over and over again and draw the game out for as much chat as we wanted in QT's..

I will say though that I doubt anybody is going to be certain of scum at any point in this game. D1 reads is something I excel at and I pride myself in being able to nail scum D1 much more often than not but with Scum not being informed we are crippled in hunting for them. The difference between scum and town is just so small in this setup its painful which shifts the things we can observe scum doing in day chat. I would say that we have to consider, What is an acceptable level of certainty and how will anything be different right now than later once we have private chats?

Honestly, I was more just looking for more time, not the QT chats. I want to ISO Firebringer because I don't like his recent voting behavior, but he's made 90+ posts and I don't think I can finish one before day ends, given how long it took me to ISO BC's ~50 posts.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

I don't think you are town, I think I mentioned why, and you keep using the word "pocket" for what is not a pocket is what bothers me most about you tbh.

Is being dumb alignment indicative now?

I responded to your reasonings and proved you incorrect. If your sole read on me is my poor use of "pocketing" then lollllllllllll

[Helz]

Honestly, I was more just looking for more time, not the QT chats. I want to ISO Firebringer because I don't like his recent voting behavior, but he's made 90+ posts and I don't think I can finish one before day ends, given how long it took me to ISO BC's ~50 posts.

I am not going to say I support a No-Lynch. If we do that we loose the pressure that is generated from votes right now which is critical. If it gets to the end of the day and I do not like the situation I 'may' not fight against a no lynch.

I would suggest that players do not admit that they support a no-lynch even if they do for this reason

[Firebringer]

Is being dumb alignment indicative now?

I responded to your reasonings and proved you incorrect. If your sole read on me is my poor use of "pocketing" then lollllllllllll

Dumb isn't the most alignment indicative.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Fire I want you to respond to post 490

[MattZed]

Seems like almost everyone is here.

There are currently 8 users browsing this thread. (7 members and 1 guests)

MattZed, BananaCucho+, Firebringer+, Helz, Kovath, PLZLEAVEDUCKK, PowersThatBe

[Unknown1234]

Seems like almost everyone is here.

There are currently 8 users browsing this thread. (7 members and 1 guests)

MattZed, BananaCucho+, Firebringer+, Helz, Kovath, PLZLEAVEDUCKK, PowersThatBe

im here.

[Helz]

@Fire
I do not believe you responded to this either

Just because you are in the hot seat I will throw this out before reads and such..


Can you point to any instance in the thread that indicates this? I want to see how you came to the conclusion that as scum I would scum read MZ. The bit about coaching also makes me curious.

I really want to try to understand your reasoning here^^

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

im here.

Do you find it odd fire is willing to lynch you even though you aren't his main scum reads? What do you think about me defending you despite how sure I was that you were mafia?

[Unknown1234]

I think that scum would be less inclined to hammer in this setup than in a normal one. In a normal setup the day chat is not as critical and cutting a few hours off a 72 hour D1 would not be a big deal. In this setup its totally critical as this is the only global chat we will ever get. Scum do not know who their team mate is and can not make an informed decision of "My team mate is in good standing so I can get myself lynched and he can win the game" which is the kind of evaluation a scum would make before putting themselves in a position to be lynched. For that reason I place no value on a player deciding not to hammer.
The only L1 thing of value would have been when Unknown put me to L1 very early in the game. A hammer at that time would have been a hardcore blow to the town and a strong scum play.

Everyone seemed to miss my first comment, so i will voice it out again. When did i vote you to L-1? This is the second time i am pretty certain you said something that i have not done.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Everyone seemed to miss my first comment, so i will voice it out again. When did i vote you to L-1? This is the second time i am pretty certain you said something that i have not done.

he is incorrect yes. I voted Helz to L-1, and you opted to not hammer

[Helz]

@PLZLEAVEDUCKK
Why do you town read Banana?

[Unknown1234]

Do you find it odd fire is willing to lynch you even though you aren't his main scum reads? What do you think about me defending you despite how sure I was that you were mafia?

I am not really sure how to anticipate your swap. I am, however, wondering why helz has suddenly decided to want to lynch me, because i have not noticed any impression of this throughout this day.

I think what your doing seems to be buddying with people in hopes that i don't hammer you personally. Thats how im feeling, although i am unsure how i gauge you compared to Firebringer...

[Firebringer]

Just because you are in the hot seat I will throw this out before reads and such..


Can you point to any instance in the thread that indicates this? I want to see how you came to the conclusion that as scum I would scum read MZ. The bit about coaching also makes me curious.

I really want to try to understand your reasoning here^^

Umm I meant you, not Kovath, is that what you are confusing.
That was waht I was getting fromp osts. I can't exactly go back and show you what got me that idea. I think it was just the way you approached him in comparison? I just don't see his actions as town as much as you, and I thought his actions were more scummy.

Like I think if you are scum you are going for Deep wolf strategy here

[Unknown1234]

@Helz i appreciate if the false information stops now thank you. It is starting to get on my nerve that you are using points i didn't say against me.

[Helz]

Everyone seemed to miss my first comment, so i will voice it out again. When did i vote you to L-1? This is the second time i am pretty certain you said something that i have not done.

First time* The other time you missread my post. I quoted you but was responding to a question you asked and referencing your posts to provide context about Duckks Day 2 100% read on you.

he is incorrect yes. I voted Helz to L-1, and you opted to not hammer

I stand corrected. I was not exactly sober at the start of the game. My mistake.

[Firebringer]

Helz, i will buy you a pizza outside of this game if you vote PLZLEAVEDUCKK

[Helz]

I am not really sure how to anticipate your swap. I am, however, wondering why helz has suddenly decided to want to lynch me, because i have not noticed any impression of this throughout this day.

Earlier in the game I believe I specifically said I was not pushing on you because I thought it would not take much at all to lock you in for the end of day lynch. I do not think I have ever pegged you as town. But just to be clear I am still much more focused on Banana than you and my vote reflects that.

[Kovath]

Helz, i will buy you a pizza outside of this game if you vote PLZLEAVEDUCKK

The magnitude of your fixation on DUCKK seems out of tune with what you're scumreading for. Use of the word pocketing, for instance?

[Helz]

Helz, i will buy you a pizza outside of this game if you vote PLZLEAVEDUCKK

The bribery is real.. And I am hungry...

-vote PLZLEAVEDUCKK

[Unknown1234]

@Helz why are you suddenly thinking i am scum? I don't think i've seen the slightest impression of you thinking this.

@MattZed how do you feel on Duck?

@Duck how do you feel about Helz?

@Kovath how do you feel about Banana?

[Helz]

-vote BananaCucho

Never said it had to stay there

[Kovath]

@Helz why are you suddenly thinking i am scum? I don't think i've seen the slightest impression of you thinking this.

@MattZed how do you feel on Duck?

@Duck how do you feel about Helz?

@Kovath how do you feel about Banana?

I've answered this question before.

Helz... wut

[Kovath]

-vote BananaCucho

Never said it had to stay there

Is that Helz's duplicity quota for the game or a sign that he's scum?

[Unknown1234]

Mm, my questions based off of connections i feel have been missed. Helz just answered mine, Kovath ill have to look into...

Matt your kinda quiet, i'd like to hear how you feel more. same with banana.

[Firebringer]

-vote BananaCucho

Never said it had to stay there

God damn it, now I have to buy you a pizza.

[Unknown1234]

We are all here and have been for some time. Now is the best time to ask questions.

[Firebringer]

Helz, i will buy you a pizza outside of this game if you vote PLZLEAVEDUCKK

I never said when I would buy you this pizza.
Checkmate.

[Helz]

@Helz why are you suddenly thinking i am scum? I don't think i've seen the slightest impression of you thinking this.

I did post a read wall like 30 mins ago you know..

For the majority of D1 my focus has been pushing Banana and Duck and somewhat more passively on FireBringer. I like keeping the town spread around during the day when I can. I acknowledge that players often follow my 'lead' in reads and pressure. If I push on a player that already seems scummy it shifts focus to that player. If everything is uncertain then players are forced to independently come up with their own thoughts and forge new trains and FoS's.

You are acting like I am trying to get you lynched. Like I am trying to misrepresent your posts to make you seem scummy. This is objectively not true. I simply said that I am willing to lynch you and brought up points to provide incite to my reasoning on that perspective. Your sensitivity to pressure that does not exist is noted though.

[Helz]

Is that Helz's duplicity quota for the game or a sign that he's scum?

Nigga. I'm just hungry

I never said when I would buy you this pizza.
Checkmate.

True. I would rather take a crazy extended timeline than have you send me some pizza with no sauce, no cheese, and a bunch of anchovies or something.. So I suppose this is not the worst thing that can happen..
Will you toast said pizza on your toaster prior to sending it?



I would also like to hear more from Banana (As I have said over and over)
Dirty lurker..

[Unknown1234]

I did post a read wall like 30 mins ago you know..

For the majority of D1 my focus has been pushing Banana and Duck and somewhat more passively on FireBringer. I like keeping the town spread around during the day when I can. I acknowledge that players often follow my 'lead' in reads and pressure. If I push on a player that already seems scummy it shifts focus to that player. If everything is uncertain then players are forced to independently come up with their own thoughts and forge new trains and FoS's.

You are acting like I am trying to get you lynched. Like I am trying to misrepresent your posts to make you seem scummy. This is objectively not true. I simply said that I am willing to lynch you and brought up points to provide incite to my reasoning on that perspective. Your sensitivity to pressure that does not exist is noted though.

I don't quite understand why you think i am reacting to pressure.

I saw the wall, i did not see anything that i thought was really rough, and you saying things like i voted you to L-1 is not something that i will simply overlook because you "wern't sober" the idea of this is there to start a mislynch onto me, if you don't see it this way then nothing i say will change your mind.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Sorry had to let the dogs out, I will go respond to your banana question now helz.

[Helz]

I don't quite understand why you think i am reacting to pressure.

I saw the wall, i did not see anything that i thought was really rough, and you saying things like i voted you to L-1 is not something that i will simply overlook because you "wern't sober" the idea of this is there to start a mislynch onto me, if you don't see it this way then nothing i say will change your mind.

Lets just call this another misunderstanding. Although feel free to pick my brain on my opinion of you all you want.

[Helz]

I am just going to straight up ask it. Is anyone else willing to lynch Banana today? Even now at the end game you see her wanting a lynch but not wanting to push for it.

I really dislike no lynching.

She has hardly pushed anyone and is just passing out town cred gathering friends. She constantly avoids clarifying or giving reasoning and flat out refuses to interact in a meaningful way displacing my requests with hostility.

To be 100% clear this is who I would like to lynch today. I am not super certain that she is scum but I am more confident that she is than any other player in the game. I would really like to hear players thoughts on her. If someone makes a stronger case on a different slot I will consider switching over but this is currently my focus.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

I will skip the early part of the day for times sake.

I'm going to be honest, I didn't read this because I was annoyed at you. Gimmie a minute.

You even acknowledged in your posts that you felt banana was getting annoyed. I thought this irritation was genuine. I also don’t think if she was faking this post about being annoyed that she responds “gimmie a minute” over something more fakely constructrued such as “give me a minute”

Well this has me scratching my head now. Fire reacted to Duck putting Helz at L-1 early by scum reading him, even though Duck very quickly retracts the vote, here Fire leaves Unknown at L-1 for a few hours and retracts after several people question that decision. Not only that he insists that he is considering unvoting - it feels like he was hoping someone would quick hammer but he would have an excuse just in case of "oh I was unsure about that" if Unknown flips town

-vote Firebringer

I didn't have a read on Kovath or Unknown early because I know nothing about the players and their play styles.

Kovaths interactions with everyone however especially in questioning me about voting Unknown has shown a willingness to understand everyone's position and analyze motivation and I feel Kovath is town.

Where I stand on everyone from towniest to scummiest:

MattZed
Kovath
PLZLEAVEDUCK
Unknown
Helz
Firebringer

He was 2nd to last on that list until Fire voted Unknown when he had 2 other people he'd rather lynch instead and then flop when he wasn't hammered
No
Not at all what I was expecting. Were you trying to mask it as an emotional vote?

I like the way she points out Fire for his weird vote on unknown.

For her reads I like them because of how low I am on the list. She has been defending me all game which I think was a little much seeing how little I have done this game compared to previously. The only contention I have with the reads list is unknown being above helz.
Her not wanting me to sacrifice myself to trade for fire is probably towny since I offered to go first, and since she is on board for a fire lynch she would have to be mafia and think I am her partner for this to be scum motivated.

I really couldn't care less what you think, you're not going to push me into playing the game how you want me to play it. I have my play style, you have yours. The only difference this game from others for me is I'm trying to tone down the aggressive play, but I'm not one to post walls of fluff or post and repost a reads list over and over.

Good for you.

I like these responses. SHES A STRONG INDEPENDENT WOMAN AND NO HELZ GONNA TELL HER HOW TO PLAY. Joking aside I am team banana.

[Unknown1234]

I am perfectly comfortable saying i would like to see BananaCucho lynched.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

@Firebringer

still waiting on that response to post 490....

[Firebringer]

@Firebringer

still waiting on that response to post 490....

I am very annoyed right now.
Don't bug me.

[MattZed]

I am just going to straight up ask it. Is anyone else willing to lynch Banana today?

In short, I am not. I think your current squabble with her is over a disagreement of how D1 should be played and not over much that actually indicates alignment. I strongly dislike her hostility toward you, but she has explained several times why she has the meta reads that she does. The hostility, as far as I can tell, is because she feels she's already explained the things you ask her about. Unless you can come up with a more compelling reason as to why BC's behavior is scum indicative, I'm not supporting her lynch.

Trying to do something of a Fire ISO atm.