S-FM 196: QT 3.14

[Unknown1234]

I had an earlier post with thoughts on Banana a page or two ago and didn't think it was necessary to copy and past them. I only provided updated thoughts on what I had previously provided. I'm also pretty sure that my post has my reasons for why I'm scaling you higher on my scumlist than Banana, I think it's clear from what I wrote that I consider you more scummy than Banana.

Trying to apply some of the similar inactivity reasoning to make me question Duck doesn't really work here because Duck has already generated a lot of content for discussion in this thread. On the other hand, you were absent for a very long period of time after your initial posts and all throughout pressure on you to become more active. Like, he posted yesterday evening (in my time). I get that.

Some of my Duck read is of the gut-variety, I admit that. Duck has provided lynch lists and ISOs, for example, so I'm also not sure where you're getting "not spent a lot of time on reading anyone else" either.

When you say "a very long period of time" the word "long" is usually something scum used to exaggerate a post. And I don't really agree with you, your telling me my posts don't have my opinion in them which seems very false to me.

Also, about the whole "not voting you since your at L-1 is something to also consider as a town member, but as well as being scummy too. I admit that I didn't think this through when I posted it.

[Unknown1234]

Although, something i want to add. You say yourself that "there is no reason to rush into Lynches" (not quite word for word) so how do you feel about Fire and Ducks vote on me? Wouldn't a town want to wait as Helz said to receive more information.

Another post I feel strongly against is Banana voting me. "Unknown only has one vote" and yet only one other person had 2 votes.

As of right now, the Fire and Banana votes on me are really scummy because neither claim to scum read me, but why vote me?

[MattZed]

Although, something i want to add. You say yourself that "there is no reason to rush into Lynches" (not quite word for word) so how do you feel about Fire and Ducks vote on me? Wouldn't a town want to wait as Helz said to receive more information.

Another post I feel strongly against is Banana voting me. "Unknown only has one vote" and yet only one other person had 2 votes.

As of right now, the Fire and Banana votes on me are really scummy because neither claim to scum read me, but why vote me?

@BananaCucho was voting you because she wanted to pressure you, one of her null reads. I highly doubt she'd let you stay at L-1 if she were to come on now.

Fire's vote I'm having a little trouble explaining; he even states he suspects it's a mislynch.

[Unknown1234]

@BananaCucho was voting you because she wanted to pressure you, one of her null reads. I highly doubt she'd let you stay at L-1 if she were to come on now.

Fire's vote I'm having a little trouble explaining; he even states he suspects it's a mislynch.

Okay I just went through and that makes sense, when fire voted she hasn't come back on and posted yet.

[Firebringer]

I want to think more.

-unvote

[Unknown1234]

I want to think more.

-unvote

You say that now after 2/3 non voters had the option to hammer me?

[Firebringer]

You say that now after 2/3 non voters had the option to hammer me?

Shut up Unknown, you are disrupting my thoughts....

-vote PLZLEAVEDUCKK

I am going for this all the way.
Sheep me to victory or suffer my wrath!!!

[Firebringer]

Its funny me and Kovath rarely can agree on much.
I get feels that Helz is still scum and he thinks MZ is his scum buddy and he has been coaching him all day.

[Unknown1234]

I'm going to say this right now, I refuse to vote MattZed or Helz. Firebringer and Kovath are the other two I would rather avoid voting, but I don't like/follow Ducks train of thought this and Banana's play does not seem like a good plan. Even if she hasn't returned why leave a vote on some because I only had one vote? Makes no sense. And even if you think she would have withdrawn her vote why did she leave so long with her vote on me?

Duck is where I would like to go, although maybe less likely to happen.

[Unknown1234]

This comment is how I feel right now, though I don't expect many changes I will leave it at this for the time being.

[Firebringer]

I'm going to say this right now, I refuse to vote MattZed or Helz. Firebringer and Kovath are the other two I would rather avoid voting, but I don't like/follow Ducks train of thought this and Banana's play does not seem like a good plan. Even if she hasn't returned why leave a vote on some because I only had one vote? Makes no sense. And even if you think she would have withdrawn her vote why did she leave so long with her vote on me?

Duck is where I would like to go, although maybe less likely to happen.

Then vote Duck, I am voting duck.
Sheep me now or you might get lynched. If you are town you should join. If you are scum you should join.

[Kovath]

Its funny me and Kovath rarely can agree on much.
I get feels that Helz is still scum and he thinks MZ is his scum buddy and he has been coaching him all day.

I have the impression we approach the game in different ways. I'll think more about it at a later point.

[Firebringer]

I have the impression we approach the game in different ways. I'll think more about it at a later point.

Given this game and last game, I am pretty sure this plainly obvious to anyone lol.

[Unknown1234]

Although you two may not agree with each other, I wouldn't say this means your on opposite sides, however that is what it seems like your saying.

[Firebringer]

Although you two may not agree with each other, I wouldn't say this means your on opposite sides, however that is what it seems like your saying.

I have a town read on him, so no, that is not what I am saying lol.

[Unknown1234]

Okay. How do you feel about Matt yourself?

[Firebringer]

Okay. How do you feel about Matt yourself?

He is town. I think I have stated this quite a few times.

Reads List for all those who are unsure where I stand:

Town
BananaCucho
MattZed
Kovath

Null
Unknown1234

Scum
Helz
PLZLEAVEDUCKK

[Unknown1234]

I shall post my list, although it is fairly clear where I put everyone

Town:
MattZed
Helz
Kovath
Firebringer (just the L-1 vote that is questionable)

Scum:
PLZLEAVEDUCKK
BananaCucho

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Then vote Duck, I am voting duck.
Sheep me now or you might get lynched. If you are town you should join. If you are scum you should join.

How strongly do you feel I am mafia? I will make you a deal, I will ask everyone to vote me, BUT if I flip town they have to IMMEDIATELY lynch you within ten actual minutes of my lynch, no discussion, just an instant lynch. DEAL?

I have a fever, my reads will probably not help town much until atleast 2 days from now. A 1 for 1 trade right now will help town, and please I dare you to call my bluff if you are mafia.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Town:
Mattzed (hate most of his logic, but its towny)
Kovath
Banana

On the Fence:
Helz
Firebringer

Scum:
Unknown


For the record, I chose not to hammer unknown because I did not like Fire's reasoning for putting him to L-1, especially after saying he was willing to lynch helz.

[Unknown1234]

Town:
Mattzed (hate most of his logic, but its towny)
Kovath
Banana

On the Fence:
Helz
Firebringer

Scum:
Unknown


For the record, I chose not to hammer unknown because I did not like Fire's reasoning for putting him to L-1, especially after saying he was willing to lynch helz.

Your already voting me sweetie. Wtf?

[Firebringer]

How strongly do you feel I am mafia? I will make you a deal, I will ask everyone to vote me, BUT if I flip town they have to IMMEDIATELY lynch you within ten actual minutes of my lynch, no discussion, just an instant lynch. DEAL?

I have a fever, my reads will probably not help town much until atleast 2 days from now. A 1 for 1 trade right now will help town, and please I dare you to call my bluff if you are mafia.

Deal.

[MattZed]

ISO on BananaCucho:

Spoiler : Post Summaries :

82 - promising to be on later
141 - first real post; the infamous townread on Fire for traps, townread on me for "tunneling" meta. Also a townread on Duckk, supposedly for trying a 1v1.
142 - leaves
169 - maintains she will not explain why Fire's trap was a town post
172 - defends Duckk on basis of offering a 1v1; defends his 99.99% comment
174 - urges Unknown to move away from the 99.99% comment
175 - questions Unknown's narrative of that people are already thinking about "pairs."
176 - in response to Duckk, reads Unknown as null-to-town for seeming genuine
178 - states she disagrees with Duckk's argument, but doesn't scumread him for it. Indicates she doesn't want to lynch Unknown or Duckk today.
181 - fluff
183 - fluff
187 - fluff
194 - responds to Kovath that she's not bothered by potential WIFOM from Duckk's 1v1.
264 - longer post; GET BACK TO LATER
269 - says she almost rethought Duckk for putting Helz at L-1; considers it null from the quick retraction.
271 - defends Duckk's L-1 vote to Firebringer
276 - sarcastic remark at Helz; minor misrep
279 - defends her activity level and claims to have responded to the significant posts (I'd agree to this point)
281 - "I don't slip. Don't be silly."
283 - Asks me why my vote was still on Helz; asks if I consider him the most scummy player.
285 - Says she'd rather (pressure?) vote Unknown over Duckk
286 - votes Unknown after realizing he only has one vote on him
290 - claims to have a null read on Unknown and Kovath, town read on myself, Fire, and Duckk, and a scum lean on Helz
293 - "Votes are never meaningless, kid. "
294 - explains that her reason for voting Unknown is to pressure him so she can evaluate his responses
319 - Starts debate with Fire over D1 reads; "Problem is day 1 reads are wrong too often. "
325 - Continues to disagree: "All reads should be fluid and reevaluated after every lynch. "
327 - claims to townread Fire based purely off of meta reasons
330 - explains that Fire's trap is more likely town because he did it without being pressured
333 - explains trap
335 - re-explains how she townreads Fire for attempting the trap, even if dumb
336 - continuation of 335
341 - justifies using meta reads on the grounds that it's D1 and there's time to re-evaluate; claims that Fire, like Duckk, is making "genuine bad town plays," not scum ones.
343 - fluff
358 - in response to Helz' accusation that she's been low effort: "Yeah you can go fuck yourself."
359 - flags Kovath for questions but says it will have to wait for later
390 - claims town reads on myself, Fire, and Duckk, null-to-town on Unknown, null on Kovath, and scum lean on Helz. (Note: only change from 290 is that Unknown went from null to null-to-town) Maintains that the read on Fire is meta.
391 - "I second the notion that we play the game as Calix intended - in Camp Mafia when people tried to break my mechanics it pissed me off."
393 - Responds to Unknown
395 - claims Unknown misunderstands how she reads the Fire vs Unknown interaction
401 - "Yeah I'm not in the "meta is for plebs" camp. Meta can be a pretty powerful tool for predictable players."
402 - clarification of 401
406 - rebuts Helz on meta reads by saying they're especially useful early on; maintains Fire is acting like town Fire and that she hasn't seen anything scummy from him.
413 - tells Unknown he hasn't been reading her posts if he thinks she scumreads him.
414 - discusses that overlooking something in general isn't indicative of alignment in this setup because scum are uninformed
416 - reminds Unknown to read her posts to see how she's actually reading him
421 - says she doesn't think Duckk is a bad enough player to fall for Fire's trap
424 - defends having a lot of town reads to Helz as part of "towns job"
426 - asks Fire if he's down for lynching Helz
436 - maintains no regrets about perceived inactivity. Also: "I am down for lynching Helz or Unknown."

BananaCucho's behavior can be summarized as thus: She townreads myself, Fire, and Duckk off of mostly meta reads, which she spends a lot of the day defending. She has a null read on Kovath and mostly ignores him. She starts null but then turns null-to-town on Unknown, applying constantly vote pressure to make him talk more. Lightly scumreads Helz from the start, and is generally antagonistic to him thereafter.

What sticks out to me the most is how her reads don't change from post 141, her first real post. She quotes a few posts from me, Fire, and Duckk, explains that that's how we play town, and then we're town for her forever after. But why don't her reads change? The obvious scum motivation would be that she's trying to pocket us and/or thinks one of us is her partner. If she only scumreads a single person all day, fewer enemies are made. A town motivation would be that she's trying to clear allies in order to win, which would require that these meta reads be sincere. I don't really have a way of verifying this, but I can't disprove the sincerity either, given the length she goes to restate the meta reads.

I'm getting a little tired atm, so I'm posting this now and will hopefully be able to analyze more before day ends. I'm not yet content with a BananaCucho lynch for today.

@BananaCucho , some questions:
What is your current read on Kovath, and why? If you still have a null read, is it because you're unable to meta him, or because he's been giving signals both ways?

[MattZed]

Just to make sure she sees this:
@BananaCucho , another question: Why are you fine lynching Unknown now, even though he's null-to-town for you on your last read list?

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

-vote plzleaveduckk

FIRE HAS AGREED TO MY DEAL. EVERYBODY VOTE ME AND LYNCH HIM INSTANTLY ONCE I DIE.

(also whoops didnt realize unknown my bad)

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

that doesnt work does it

[Firebringer]

-vote plzleaveduckk

FIRE HAS AGREED TO MY DEAL. EVERYBODY VOTE ME AND LYNCH HIM INSTANTLY ONCE I DIE.

(also whoops didnt realize unknown my bad)

We don't allow self votes and I feel like you should have known that.

[Unknown1234]

-vote plzleaveduckk

FIRE HAS AGREED TO MY DEAL. EVERYBODY VOTE ME AND LYNCH HIM INSTANTLY ONCE I DIE.

(also whoops didnt realize unknown my bad)

Fire is not even on your scum reads. Why is this not directed at me?

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

We don't allow self votes and I feel like you should have known that.

From the two games I played? Look at our first game my vote was in red text at start of game, and earlier this game during the helz at l-1 i tried to unvote and failed, so please spare me with the bullshit.
@BananaCucho @MattZed @unknown

Fire has agreed, lynch me please then lynch him right after.

[MattZed]

From the two games I played? Look at our first game my vote was in red text at start of game, and earlier this game during the helz at l-1 i tried to unvote and failed, so please spare me with the bullshit.
@BananaCucho @MattZed @unknown

Fire has agreed, lynch me please then lynch him right after.

I have a few questions, first:

Why should I want either of you, nevermind both of you, dead? Why are you content to die first? Why are you so confident Firebringer is scum?

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Fire is not even on your scum reads. Why is this not directed at me?

Because the trap I was referring to was putting helz at L-1 while you were in the thread, and you chose not to hammer. You hammer instantly as mafia, and now I have to decide if you thought helz was your mafia partner or if I need to reevaluate on you. I read helz as mafia at the time, so I thought it was a good play, but if you are town Fire's play as mafia makes sense.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

I have a few questions, first:

Why should I want either of you, nevermind both of you, dead? Why are you content to die first? Why are you so confident Firebringer is scum?

Order does not matter in this setup. It will be easier to convince town to lynch him by me flipping town then it will be trying to logic my way through a fever. Look at my quality of posts compared to other games, I won't be useful until this fever breaks. I can do my job by trading with a mafia though.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Keep in mind the deal only works if I get lynched first. If you guys decide fire is the day 1 lynch and he flips town, I am not agreeing to being lynch tomorrow.

[MattZed]

Duckk, if you can't play due to fever, that's a totally acceptable reason to replace out. If you're town, we gain nothing from your flip. Scum are uninformed in this setup, and there's nothing from your analysis that would make more likely to suspect Firebringer is scum if you flip town.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Duckk, if you can't play due to fever, that's a totally acceptable reason to replace out. If you're town, we gain nothing from your flip. Scum are uninformed in this setup, and there's nothing from your analysis that would make more likely to suspect Firebringer is scum if you flip town.

Exactly scum are uninformed in this setup. Fire knows that I am town this game and because he does not know who his teammate is for sure he cant risk going into the somewhat scummy people, and must push his lynch on someone he knows will flip town. He also knows you guys are too stupid to actually vote him.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

I will do an ISO on fire, brb in 10 minutes.

[Firebringer]

Lynch PLZLEAVEDUCKK

I gotta go now.
this is likely last post from me for the day, as you can tell. I am not moving my vote.

GL.

[MattZed]

Lynch PLZLEAVEDUCKK

I gotta go now.
this is likely last post from me for the day, as you can tell. I am not moving my vote.

GL.

A lynch today is not mandatory, and with no night kill we lose nothing if we fail to have a D1 lynch. If we don't have enough people around at EOD to make a sensible lynch, there's no reason to just stick to the one you left a vote on.

I've already outlined my reasons for potentially scumreading Duckk, namely his previous readlist that amounted to little more than scumreading those who voted for him and townreading those who didn't. But I'm certainly not going along with the foolhardy deal you two have brokered. There's no reason that a lynch on one of you has to be tied to a lynch on the other.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Sometimes me and Duck are on the same wave length and it creeps me out.

Reads me as town, mirrored reads at the early stages of the game.

I am ducks copy?

-vote PLZLEAVEDUCK

WOULD HIS COPY DO THIS!?!?!?

Flips his vote because unknown says he is my copy? We get into his reasoning in a few posts:

I dislike the way you keep attempting to map out multiple days of lynches. And I dislike that you keep pushing the idea of lynching players without providing reasoning/reads with the concept of killing them.

I agree heavily with this and its why I am voting PLZLEAVEDUCK right now.

He scumreads me because he dislikes my lynch order so he votes me… funny wasn’t his idea the SAME THING AS MINE? He reads my posts as town in tone, but my ideas as scum which mean if our ideas are the same, he reads himself as scum. I will post both ideas and you can decide for yourself.

I am at this point where I am more strongly town on Banana, Kovath, and MattZed.
With not being able to tell out of Helz, Unknown, and PLZ the scum.
I was reading PLZ as much more town earlier and now not as sure.
Helz makes some strong points, but some posts give me bad feelings.
Uknown in general has been lackluster so far, and his intro felt scummish to me.
PLZ posts are more town in tone, but some of his ideas especially the lynch order just rub me wrong.

Since we get four lynches I propose we:
Lynch in any order: (this is my order though)
Unknown
Helz
Mattzed
Firebringer
I am fairly sure we just win with this lynch order. If we were to go with this I would be willing to let me be swapped by banana and kovath with any of the lynches if they so agree.

Fire’s Plan:

If you get 3 strong town together and decide to lynch only outside of that block, and everyone in that block is town.

Town can't lose, no matter what in this game.
Scum shoots one? Welp only need the two for vote control = Still win.

If you compare the Plans, we both had banana and Kovath as our two top towns, and I would allow any player to be replaced for me. In my world everyone but banana and kovath are lynched, in fire’s the same. We will assume in each proposed world the person making it is town, meaning IT IS THE EXACT SAME THING, yet he scum reads me for it? It is even scummier for him because of the following:

You told me you don't trust to get both scum day 1 which is why you were against my lynch plan. Your three man block would never work if you don't even think you can trust your reads completely this early.

I trust town reads more than I trust my scumreads because town has higher chance of actually being town, and my reads with town are more accurate usually.

I guess so?
its the way you told us who to lynch who in what order though that still makes a difference in my eyes though.

This is proven false if you read up where I say “lynch in ANY order, (this is my proposed order though).

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

A lynch today is not mandatory, and with no night kill we lose nothing if we fail to have a D1 lynch. If we don't have enough people around at EOD to make a sensible lynch, there's no reason to just stick to the one you left a vote on.

I've already outlined my reasons for potentially scumreading Duckk, namely his previous readlist that amounted to little more than scumreading those who voted for him and townreading those who didn't. But I'm certainly not going along with the foolhardy deal you two have brokered. There's no reason that a lynch on one of you has to be tied to a lynch on the other.

How many fucking times do I have to tell you I HAD THE EXACT SAME TOWN LIST 20 MINUTES INTO THE DAY WHEN THERE WAS ONE VOTE ON ME. USE A DIFFERENT REASON FOR SCUM READING ME HOLY FUCKING SHIT.

[BananaCucho]

-vote Unknown1234

This is now L-1.
I am now thinking this might be a mislynch, my biggest reason for this suspect is Unknown attitude in scumreading many more players than scum, lack of any real buddying, and just players all seeming to want to lynch him.
Ugh, now I might want to unvote.

I want to think more.

-unvote

Well this has me scratching my head now. Fire reacted to Duck putting Helz at L-1 early by scum reading him, even though Duck very quickly retracts the vote, here Fire leaves Unknown at L-1 for a few hours and retracts after several people question that decision. Not only that he insists that he is considering unvoting - it feels like he was hoping someone would quick hammer but he would have an excuse just in case of "oh I was unsure about that" if Unknown flips town

-vote Firebringer

ISO on BananaCucho:

Spoiler : Post Summaries :

82 - promising to be on later
141 - first real post; the infamous townread on Fire for traps, townread on me for "tunneling" meta. Also a townread on Duckk, supposedly for trying a 1v1.
142 - leaves
169 - maintains she will not explain why Fire's trap was a town post
172 - defends Duckk on basis of offering a 1v1; defends his 99.99% comment
174 - urges Unknown to move away from the 99.99% comment
175 - questions Unknown's narrative of that people are already thinking about "pairs."
176 - in response to Duckk, reads Unknown as null-to-town for seeming genuine
178 - states she disagrees with Duckk's argument, but doesn't scumread him for it. Indicates she doesn't want to lynch Unknown or Duckk today.
181 - fluff
183 - fluff
187 - fluff
194 - responds to Kovath that she's not bothered by potential WIFOM from Duckk's 1v1.
264 - longer post; GET BACK TO LATER
269 - says she almost rethought Duckk for putting Helz at L-1; considers it null from the quick retraction.
271 - defends Duckk's L-1 vote to Firebringer
276 - sarcastic remark at Helz; minor misrep
279 - defends her activity level and claims to have responded to the significant posts (I'd agree to this point)
281 - "I don't slip. Don't be silly."
283 - Asks me why my vote was still on Helz; asks if I consider him the most scummy player.
285 - Says she'd rather (pressure?) vote Unknown over Duckk
286 - votes Unknown after realizing he only has one vote on him
290 - claims to have a null read on Unknown and Kovath, town read on myself, Fire, and Duckk, and a scum lean on Helz
293 - "Votes are never meaningless, kid. "
294 - explains that her reason for voting Unknown is to pressure him so she can evaluate his responses
319 - Starts debate with Fire over D1 reads; "Problem is day 1 reads are wrong too often. "
325 - Continues to disagree: "All reads should be fluid and reevaluated after every lynch. "
327 - claims to townread Fire based purely off of meta reasons
330 - explains that Fire's trap is more likely town because he did it without being pressured
333 - explains trap
335 - re-explains how she townreads Fire for attempting the trap, even if dumb
336 - continuation of 335
341 - justifies using meta reads on the grounds that it's D1 and there's time to re-evaluate; claims that Fire, like Duckk, is making "genuine bad town plays," not scum ones.
343 - fluff
358 - in response to Helz' accusation that she's been low effort: "Yeah you can go fuck yourself."
359 - flags Kovath for questions but says it will have to wait for later
390 - claims town reads on myself, Fire, and Duckk, null-to-town on Unknown, null on Kovath, and scum lean on Helz. (Note: only change from 290 is that Unknown went from null to null-to-town) Maintains that the read on Fire is meta.
391 - "I second the notion that we play the game as Calix intended - in Camp Mafia when people tried to break my mechanics it pissed me off."
393 - Responds to Unknown
395 - claims Unknown misunderstands how she reads the Fire vs Unknown interaction
401 - "Yeah I'm not in the "meta is for plebs" camp. Meta can be a pretty powerful tool for predictable players."
402 - clarification of 401
406 - rebuts Helz on meta reads by saying they're especially useful early on; maintains Fire is acting like town Fire and that she hasn't seen anything scummy from him.
413 - tells Unknown he hasn't been reading her posts if he thinks she scumreads him.
414 - discusses that overlooking something in general isn't indicative of alignment in this setup because scum are uninformed
416 - reminds Unknown to read her posts to see how she's actually reading him
421 - says she doesn't think Duckk is a bad enough player to fall for Fire's trap
424 - defends having a lot of town reads to Helz as part of "towns job"
426 - asks Fire if he's down for lynching Helz
436 - maintains no regrets about perceived inactivity. Also: "I am down for lynching Helz or Unknown."

BananaCucho's behavior can be summarized as thus: She townreads myself, Fire, and Duckk off of mostly meta reads, which she spends a lot of the day defending. She has a null read on Kovath and mostly ignores him. She starts null but then turns null-to-town on Unknown, applying constantly vote pressure to make him talk more. Lightly scumreads Helz from the start, and is generally antagonistic to him thereafter.

What sticks out to me the most is how her reads don't change from post 141, her first real post. She quotes a few posts from me, Fire, and Duckk, explains that that's how we play town, and then we're town for her forever after. But why don't her reads change? The obvious scum motivation would be that she's trying to pocket us and/or thinks one of us is her partner. If she only scumreads a single person all day, fewer enemies are made. A town motivation would be that she's trying to clear allies in order to win, which would require that these meta reads be sincere. I don't really have a way of verifying this, but I can't disprove the sincerity either, given the length she goes to restate the meta reads.

I'm getting a little tired atm, so I'm posting this now and will hopefully be able to analyze more before day ends. I'm not yet content with a BananaCucho lynch for today.

@BananaCucho , some questions:
What is your current read on Kovath, and why? If you still have a null read, is it because you're unable to meta him, or because he's been giving signals both ways?

I didn't have a read on Kovath or Unknown early because I know nothing about the players and their play styles.

Kovaths interactions with everyone however especially in questioning me about voting Unknown has shown a willingness to understand everyone's position and analyze motivation and I feel Kovath is town.

Where I stand on everyone from towniest to scummiest:

MattZed
Kovath
PLZLEAVEDUCK
Unknown
Helz
Firebringer

Just to make sure she sees this:
@BananaCucho , another question: Why are you fine lynching Unknown now, even though he's null-to-town for you on your last read list?

He was 2nd to last on that list until Fire voted Unknown when he had 2 other people he'd rather lynch instead and then flop when he wasn't hammered

From the two games I played? Look at our first game my vote was in red text at start of game, and earlier this game during the helz at l-1 i tried to unvote and failed, so please spare me with the bullshit.
@BananaCucho @MattZed @unknown

Fire has agreed, lynch me please then lynch him right after.

No

Because the trap I was referring to was putting helz at L-1 while you were in the thread, and you chose not to hammer. You hammer instantly as mafia, and now I have to decide if you thought helz was your mafia partner or if I need to reevaluate on you. I read helz as mafia at the time, so I thought it was a good play, but if you are town Fire's play as mafia makes sense.

Not at all what I was expecting. Were you trying to mask it as an emotional vote?

[BananaCucho]

Votes are the clearest indicator of someone's alignment IMO

Fire should hang. And I don't want to waste a lynch on Duck just to lynch Fire

[Kovath]

A Firebringer lynch is acceptable to me.

[Kovath]

I am slightly curious though, Banana, his L-1 vote suddenly plummeted him down your town list from strong town-meta read to your heaviest scumread? Were you not as strong as your meta read? Or is it just your stated comment that votes are the strongest indicator of alignment?

[BananaCucho]

I am slightly curious though, Banana, his L-1 vote suddenly plummeted him down your town list from strong town-meta read to your heaviest scumread? Were you not as strong as your meta read? Or is it just your stated comment that votes are the strongest indicator of alignment?

Read changed due to circumstance. The way he handled that situation was awful. State 2 people that he'd rather lynch, put Unknown at L-1 and in the same breath say "I might unvote" and then retract the vote 3 hours later after two people (other than Unknown) point out how bad that looked... I don't get the town motivation there at all.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Well this has me scratching my head now. Fire reacted to Duck putting Helz at L-1 early by scum reading him, even though Duck very quickly retracts the vote, here Fire leaves Unknown at L-1 for a few hours and retracts after several people question that decision. Not only that he insists that he is considering unvoting - it feels like he was hoping someone would quick hammer but he would have an excuse just in case of "oh I was unsure about that" if Unknown flips town

-vote Firebringer

I didn't have a read on Kovath or Unknown early because I know nothing about the players and their play styles.

Kovaths interactions with everyone however especially in questioning me about voting Unknown has shown a willingness to understand everyone's position and analyze motivation and I feel Kovath is town.

Where I stand on everyone from towniest to scummiest:

MattZed
Kovath
PLZLEAVEDUCK
Unknown
Helz
Firebringer



He was 2nd to last on that list until Fire voted Unknown when he had 2 other people he'd rather lynch instead and then flop when he wasn't hammered



No



Not at all what I was expecting. Were you trying to mask it as an emotional vote?

Oh it was emotional, I just saw an opportunity while I was agitated.

[BananaCucho]

Like maybe if its 5 minutes til day end and he wants to get a lynch off that vote might make sense but that wasn't the situation at all.

[BananaCucho]

Oh it was emotional, I just saw an opportunity while I was agitated.

Clever girl.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

You don't need to pocket me to get a lynch off on fire.

-vote firebringer

Let us see where helz who is the thread allegiance lies.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

quick note incase I die in the night(I doubt I am ever the target)

IF FIRE FLIPS MAFIA I THINK MATTZED IS HIS PARTNER EVERYTIME despite mattzed being one of the towniest players.