Whether you believe I am a Citizen or not, Veri was a Citizen. & Goat was a Doctor.... DOCTOR AND CITIZEN ARE NO WHERE IN THE SAME CATEGORY, THATS WHERE I AM HAVING TROUBLE UNDERSTANDING.
Whether you believe I am a Citizen or not, Veri was a Citizen. & Goat was a Doctor.... DOCTOR AND CITIZEN ARE NO WHERE IN THE SAME CATEGORY, THATS WHERE I AM HAVING TROUBLE UNDERSTANDING.
Did you listen when he explained the roles?
There is always 5 citizens and 2 power roles. Then based on the other town roles, the mafia is either consort or double mafioso.
I'm not over defensive. But ok, we can lynch me today.
But 1 citizen would have a vest.
Of course, but it's possible it could
But why are we talking about things that cant be in this set up? We either have a consort or two mafiosos and a sheriff or a detective. Let's not lose focus here.
That's what i want to know from @Unknown1234
Personally, i wouldn't call what he is doing "stupid", although i do feel a scum vibe from Powers to be honest. Two days in a row he has been eager to vote me with someone (First Veri, now Sino) if Executionner is possible then i would call him one, but i don't think i would consider him stupid.
So now, if you were prone to admit you can be wrong about your thoughts, we could start trying to work out who is the scum together.
I think @PowersThatBe should be the next to go based on the biggest lie he's told so far.
No one would give you a degree in Psychology.
Quotes from what PTB has said about me.
"IF I AM DEAD. WHICH IF YOU'RE READING THIS, I AM. FOCUS ON SINO AND UNKNOWN"
This sounds like your trying to lynch me? Are you starting to get worried about being lynched?
"u. Makes a weird vet claim."
This makes no sense. I never claimed vet, nor is it possible. Seriously?
"t. Continues to focus Mesk."
What?
"d. But why? Never pressures me enough about more of my analysis, only that I included myself. Why would a town do this? Why would scum? To keep me distracted and to jump on Veri."
I never jumped on Veri, nor wanted you to or me to either, so this is not at all true.
"bb. Unknown puts spotlight back on me. But I thought he thought I was town?"
Show me when i said this, because i doubt i ever typed those words.
"x. UNKNOWN FAILS PANDA’S REACTION TEST."
Because Panda testing me and Panda's reactions are based off of Panda. That is basically saying "Since Panda thinks your scum, i'm going to think your scum."
Sure, I could be wrong. But as I said, Veri left very little in a way of her defense.
I was the first to vote, others followed suit. As doug said, it's just as much everyone's fault as mine.
So, yeah I'll take blame but you trying to throw all of the blame on me is exactly what a scum would do. Mesk's jump to confirm your thoughts only has me thinking more that you are together.
It just bothers me that if Unknown is town, why is he hanging back?
It seems I'm the only one trying to actually scum hunt in this game.
Between the afkers and the non-questions askers and starts, this is becoming ad tedium.
Being Day 1 it is quite possible Veri was voted by all 5 town, Mesk514 doesn't think so but she voted for Veri and neither you or Unknown1234 did. So if Veri was lynched by at least one scum as you say if not both that means you or Unknown1234 would have to be town, right?
Goatse's murder as an attempt to frame you seems far fetched, he seemed pro town enough for me Day 1 and my bets were that Mafia would target PowersThatBe, GoastseOntheCupboard, Panda or until Veri flipped town, thedougler for their Night 1 kill. Other than Powers's initial read on him, he was not being considered scum and even Powers later agreed about his reads when he offered up Mesk514 for lynch. He put pressure on you with me but made it clear why and that he would not stop until you brought something to the table and he had a read on you.
Goatse was a town asset and I'm much more inclined to believe he was killed because of that instead of a frame job, but I can also see you being scum with someone like Unknown1234 and whacking Goatse because out of the 2 people who voted you he was considered less scummy and you took him out regardless of the consequences because from Day 1 chat clearly he wasn't going to let you, Unknown or Mesk off the hook so easily.
You keep giving hypotheticals of what you would do if you were scum as if you want us to believe that would in fact be your behavior and since it wasn't you are not scum, but other people who behaved the way you would have as scum are. If you're being framed then you must be innocent, Am I the framer? After all I already voted and lynched Veri.
@Unknown1234
1. That's my last will. Kind of obvious. Why would a scum put that "if I'm dead." Clearly you do not understand how Last wills work. I lived so I posted my analysis.
2. You made some odd claims about vets, meh, Panda and I both mistook it as you trying to make some weird ass claim hoping we wouldn't know or check the possible roles, since they are not in this thread. And now, clearly (mesk) everyone did not know how the chart worked. Well so mesk claims.
3. You at jumped off me at one point and kept trying to take focus off of you when Panda questioned both of you, to me it seemed you were trying to divert attention to mesk.
4. You said 'if you are town that would be a huge loss to the town." And then you switched this position and focused me again. Simple really. You deduced that I am most likely important to town (i,e.e because doug and goatse said this to be the case "one of those people is confirmed town.") You then later switched back to me again. And here you are again, focusing only on me, if you're town you're making a big mistake and I fear "if" Sino and mesk are the evils they are playing both sides against the middle. "me"
5. I didn't say you jumped -- or rather didn't mean you jumped. I meant you wanted to keep me distracted so I would continue to jump on Veri so I would mislynch and then later you could confirm that I am A "an idiot" or b "probably scum." So that way you could then mislynch me day two but have without scrutiny.
6. Eh, I read it and it was pretty basic reaction test. Pretty general answers can be given. So it's not just based off of panda and her assumptions.
So you're telling me only town would have voted Veri ? No scum would have jumped on the opportunity to lynch a townie ?
Sorry, but that just doesn't make any sense given the situation, so yes, Unknown and me can't be both scum.
I also don't get how a frame would be far fetched, of course we all know we also get clues from who gets killed, so obviously, scums would use that to their advantage.
You can't just tell me you can't consider all those things, you first voted Veri and ran away without giving us any reason, and now you see only things the way you'd like them to be, seems pretty scummy to me.
Well, what @Renata just said confirms my beliefs soo
-vote PowersThatBe
Do you believe @PowersThatBe and @Renata are our two scums ?
Would make sense, given how they never doubt each other, but i'll still need @Panda and @thedougler to give us their feelings about all of this.
Never doubt each other? I read renata as scum LMAO.
Tbh you and Mesk are the two scums.
This kind of rhetoric is exactly what I imagined coming from the mafia the moment Veri flipped town. It was obvious they would try to find a patsy from the town and push hard for a second mislynch. While my faith that PTB is town is shaken, him defending himself at this point in the game shouldn't be seen as a selfish attempt to stay alive and lead mislynches. The fact is if we get things wrong again today we're in trouble. Town mislynches tend to beget more town mislynches as the game goes on.
It's impossible for me to ignore how premeditated everything going on between Sino and Mesk looks right now. It's like they're following a premade gameplan. This paired with Sino's seemingly random vote on Renata yesterday ("We should at least apply some pressure on the silent ones. ") is giving me a strong scum lean for him.
-vote Sino
I do indeed believe that. It fits my theory about mafia taking two separate approaches, like Powers White Knighting and Renata adding her 2cents here and there. Powers set the tone by pointing the finger at @Veri while @Renata tried to go the opposite direction which was my way. They also have not pointed their fingers directly at each other which in my opinion is a bit fishy because I as someone who's a little scattered sometimes have been bouncing off the walls pointing my finger at everyone, and I've seen the same in a lot of you but not really amongst these two.
Again, I strongly believe 1 or both Mafia voted @Veri .
BAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA I'M DYING RIGHT NOW.premeditated everything going on between Sino and Mesk looks right now.
@Sino , do you see that.... We are now the ones cahooting.
1.) Obviously that is your last will (I have played the mod, with you actually) and you completely missed the point of that quotation. I was showing you that if you were dead, you would STILL want me dead, and you just claimed recently saying "i don't want to lynch you".
2.) I have read the charts, and i doubt Mesk would assume i was claiming a role that isn't even on the chart. His confusion was based off a role ON the chart, Veteran isn't. Also, the point of what i said was to emphasise my point, saying that i would act that way if i was veteran.
3.) #5 states, once again, that i jumped on you even though you just said i didn't. I don't consider me jumping on you because i didn't even vote you.
4.) You tend to overreact everything. I never once said that i thought you were town, but at that point (aside from pandas first post) you were the only one leading conversations. At this point more people are talking (with the exception of Panda)
5.) I could say that about anyone. If i defended Veri, you really think i would want him dead secretly, so i defend him to make you vote him and NOT ME, which would be 50/50, and in hopes that he dies which does not even make you look guilty (Atleast in my books, starting a lynch on someone doesn't make you scum".
6.) Just because the questions are "basic" does not mean i will answer them the way she thinks an "ideal townie" is, therefore, if you want to tell me i failed a reaction test, make up a test and tell me i answered those questions wrong.
^^^ IT WAS PANDA WHO THOUGHT YOU WERE VET.2.) I have read the charts, and i doubt Mesk would assume i was claiming a role that isn't even on the chart. His confusion was based off a role ON the chart, Veteran isn't. Also, the point of what i said was to emphasise my point, saying that i would act that way if i was veteran.
I know i only recently come to understand the chart but even I know that if veteran isn't there it isn't a possibility.
The value in understanding this as scum is that it gives you an idea of methods to avoid in order to gain more town cred and avoid slips. It can also provide you with more ways to manipulate players who do not understand these methods.
Straw Man- Setting up a weak version of the opponent’s argument in order to discredit it.
Red Herring- This is when someone draws the argument into a tangent proving that the tangent is correct and insinuating that it either proves their point or draws away from the original point.
Unknown: With my including myself.
Mesk: “So my question is about jailor and citizen.”
Sino: It’s a frame job. Powers is defending himself too much.
False Dichotomy- This is when a player trys to force you into choosing between 1 of 2 choices. Usually with one of them being obviously ridiculous
Sino: Is PTB stupid or scum “Obviously scum is the ridiculous choice because he is scum and he knows his partner.
Slippery Slope- Claiming that A will start a chain reaction leading to B then C then D and D has a dire consequence
Sino: If you lynch him day 1 then that would lead to a mislynch and another town getting lynched Day 2.Because that person would be more suspect.
Ad Hominem- This is when a player attacks a person in order to discredit their argument as opposed to addressing the argument Hasty Generalization- This is basically stereotypes.
Mesk: Calling Panda a stupid bitch, calling me a stupid 3rd grader. “No one would give you psych degree.”
Fallacy of Accident- This is usually when someone trys to cover a specific situation by citing a general rule when the situation is an exception to the rule
Sino: Someone killed goatse to frame me. “In most cases, a person is killed in mafia because they’re too close to the source. Claiming the opposite is appealing to our sense that people kill people in mafia to frame is the rule when it is the exception. Perhaps it might be the rule in the mod, but we’re playing long form. Which is much different. And even so, you kill people in the mod who are invests or protective types. Rarely do you kill to frame someone else successfully.”
Missing the point- The premises of the argument does not support the conclusion.
Post Hoc- Assuming because B came after A, A caused B
Weak Analogy-An analogy is not strong enough to support a conclusion
Mesk: Because Veri was lynched, and flipped town, one or both mafia have to have voted for veri.
Mesk: Oh I bet he’ll accuse me of voting Sino so I could fly under the radar.
Begging the Question- This is basically circular reasoning
Mesk: Am I scum acting citi or citi acting scum. Will you lynch me? WIFOM
Appeal to Pitty- Forcing someone to feel sorry to accept a conclusion
Mesk: I don’t understand the chart, so I made a mistake. I’m stupid.
Appeal to Ignorance- If it can not be proven it must be false; or If it can not be disproved it must be true
Sino: Goatse was killed to frame me. One or both of the mafia voted to lynch veri. Therefore he is being both framed, AND is town b/c he didn’t’ vote veri
Mesk: Also with the chart. Cant prove that she knew the setup, cant disprove that she didn’t.
Appeal to Unqualified Authority- Adding Ethos to an argument from a bias or unqualified source.
Sino: Well he voted for Veri who was town so he has to be scum because Veri said he was
Mesk: Also what Sino said to an extent. PTB Led the charge on Veri . Because Veri was town, MAFIA had to vote for her.
I just wanted to put this out here, I plan to go back and see if anyone else has committed these undeniable fallacies of argument typically used by scum. I pulled this list from Helz guide on the forums to playing forum mafia. Add anyone you see fit, add me, go for it!
why would I throw @Sino under the bus like that if he were my team mate.
I said focus on you, because in my conclusion based on day 1 I had you working with Sino. Goodness. I never said lynch you calm down. Also, forgot to delete that part, and I don't edit my post because I respect the rules.
ALSO HOPE EVERYONE KNOWS THERE CAN BE NO OUT OF GAME CHATTING.
2. the chart had nothing to do with you.
3. You focused me, when there were other people to focus. As you're doing now.
4. I'm not overracting to anything. I'm reacting as the game is meant for me to react to.
5. Veri was a girl, and it was a theory. And anyone with a brain can see I was pushing hard for her, so of course it would make sense for you to come to her defense to make it look like I was witch hunting her when she came up town.
6. Ok
@Sino perhaps you should read the ENTIRE analysis, and not pull one part out.
3. Renata: Her RQS still troubling. Immediately votes Sino, and afks. When she returns she offers a lot of valid information. However still only posts 8 times. Votes Mesk when that seemed to be consensus or where the focus was. Stayed out of the focus. Gives insight into the process, but why? Solid reasoning for voting Veri (possible Unknown collab). Didn’t want to hammer mesk who might be town. TOWN LEAN for now.
-vote Sino
Today Renata has been more upfront, so I lean heavily more town for her.
I didnt contradict myself, you didn't read the entire post. You also didn't take into consideration that I originally Leaned Renata as scum. And I leaned Veri and Goat as scum too. Clearly my initial reads were off as both of them turned out to be town. I said Renata leaned town after Day 1, she has done nothing since to lean scum.
You leaned town originally for me and now you are heavily scum. Pushing my lynch for mislynching veri, you're doing this with mesk. As scum would do.
I have been consistent all game. There is no reason to believe renata to be scum.
Are you still on this chart shit?Mesk: “So my question is about jailor and citizen.”
LOL day 1 I legit had to ask my mentor if there were 3 mafia cause I DIDNT UNDERSTAND THE CHART AND THERE WERE 3 MAFIA IN THE CHART.Mesk: Also with the chart. Cant prove that she knew the setup, cant disprove that she didn’t.
I kid you not I thought that I was 1 town special role, 2mafia and the rest citizens. WHICH IS WHY I SAID THERES NO SHERIFF BECAUSE I THOUGHT THE TOWN SPECIAL ROLE WAS A DOCTOR
I don't know if you can read but I said atlas 100 times that I think you're scum because you're white knighting, trying to be town saviour, has nothing to do with you starting the lynch train on @Veri , which I have no shame in saying I totally followed.Mesk: Also what Sino said to an extent. PTB Led the charge on Veri . Because Veri was town, MAFIA had to vote for her.
^^ This again comes from a player who was mason and was truly convinced a Survivor was cult when Immunity prevents conversion was turned on. But hey, mistakes make you stupid right, so gimme your address so i can send you you're certified stupid certificate.Mesk: I don’t understand the chart, so I made a mistake. I’m stupid.
If @Panda can't except my apology her and I can discuss it later, but I honestly do believe you need some help with the issues you have going on in your head.Mesk: Calling Panda a stupid bitch, calling me a stupid 3rd grader. “No one would give you psych degree.”
I am naturally a scummy person and the only person who really seems to be pointing it out is Powers.
so I'm just gonna say this.
IT TAKES SCUM TO REALLY KNOW SCUM
I thought there was********I kid you not I thought that I was 1 town special role, 2mafia and the rest citizens. WHICH IS WHY I SAID THERES NO SHERIFF BECAUSE I THOUGHT THE TOWN SPECIAL ROLE WAS A DOCTOR
And everytime you've read someone as scum, they turned out to be town, yet as you say, you are consistent and still don't listen to other people's arguments, only going with your reads (which have really helped you so far).
Ok because one time in one game I didn't pay attention that survivor couldn't be culted? And in that game I didn't lynch the survivor, and won. So really. Shut up, with your foolishness.
Mod =/= this game. Mesk you're scum and most of it know.
I used the principle of arguments, both of which you have failed.