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  1. ISO #351

    Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft



    @Stealthbomber16
    Could you clarify your reads? Unless @Yayap cares to give some reasoning as to why its a bad idea to have direction from the semi-confirmed town block >.>
    Images attachées Images attachées
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  2. ISO #352

    Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft

    So the basic problem as I see it.

    7p made up of 2 confirmed, 3vt 1priest, 1 scum with 3 town lynches

    Now if the Priest revealed it would mean the 3vt would have a game solve but they would also be in the PoE going from a 3/4 (75%) shot to a 3/3 (100%) shot. The 2 confirmed town would get less from it taking their pool from a 3/5 (60%) shot to a 3/4 (75%) shot (unless CC which would be game over.)

    At any point a successful heal outside of Stealth/Guillo means game over for the scum. This is also a big deal with the scum either choosing to chew at the town block or risk total loss by killing outside of it and risking that heal. But killing inside of the block means the priest lives to heal another day and they are shooting 50/50 for desperately needed kills.

    I think we should just play some basic follow the cop. Yes our 2p town block will be batting at 60% 'but' if 1/5 is going to hit on priest which will force a reveal. That reveal either gets CC'ed putting a 50/50 which is also a lock town win today or tomorrow or it shifts the NK. So that 60% is rather understated and I feel like we can hit over RNG given the players in this game.

    I will pop back in later but I do feel like our town block needs to start acting like a town block given the game state for our best chances at winning. Otherwise the PoE will end up trying to drive it risking some substantial TvT ego nonsense the way discussions have been going and I would rather avoid getting the measuring stick for the weenie contest.

    Given that everyone outside of the PoE is looking at 4 options with 3 lynches @ikarusdk @Mizery @luona @Yayap out of Myself, Ika, Mizery, Luona and Yayap what order would you prefer the 3 lynches to happen? Would you be willing to sheep Stealth/Guillo given this reasoning?
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  3. ISO #353

    Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Just to add a hellish level of WIFOM on the night actions-

    The scum player 100% has to kill a player in the town block in the next 2 days. If they shoot in the town block and the priest is covering its a 50/50 making their safe play taking 2 shots within there for 25% overall priest coverage over 2 days.

    If they shoot outside of it and kill the non priest after a misslynch tomorrow we would be left with 2 confirmed town and a pool of 3 with a priest claim and two town lynches- This would be mechanically game over requiring priest to claim. CC or not the pool would be either 2 unconfirmed or 1v1 priest claims which is a town win either way.

    So will the scum risk the 50% chance of killing Guillo or Stealth over 2 days or risk a 75% chance of not hitting the priest which = game over (Assuming misslynch)? I feel like the safe play for the priest is also covering the town block.
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  4. ISO #354

    Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Anyways. Done talking to myself for a bit. Will be back after people start playing and such but I do think playing follow the cop will hamstring the last scums ability to push the game with strong odds of a town win even if our town block turns their brains off and goes with RNG eliminations.
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  5. ISO #355

    Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post


    @Stealthbomber16
    Could you clarify your reads? Unless @Yayap cares to give some reasoning as to why its a bad idea to have direction from the semi-confirmed town block >.>
    Final scum is between you, luona and mizery. Who is it? Probably luona but I haven't heard a single good reason why it isn't Mizery, and that worked for oli, so I might swap over.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Unfunny View Post
    How dare you send me another box of cereal
    Quote Originally Posted by ChannelMiner View Post
    Anyways I shot Brad due to my morbid fear of zombies.

  6. ISO #356

  7. ISO #357

    Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    My projected elim path is probably luona -> mizery -> helz -> the game is over.
    Feel free to ask me anything if you want. Kinda wish more of the players were.... playing...

    I still kinda want to do an Iso of Oliver at least but I feel like I have been throwing too much effort into a game everyone is super complacent on at this point. Im not big on interactions but man... Not even a squeak about analysis or potential mechanical crunches is not great.
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  8. ISO #358

    Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft

    If I knew D2 was going to go like this I would have faked a scum slip or something to generate content like we were breaking RVS.
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  9. ISO #359

    Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    If I knew D2 was going to go like this I would have faked a scum slip or something to generate content like we were breaking RVS.
    I'm so glad that you worded it like this because that means that this was not intentional.

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    At the end of the day they view my chart and confirm the positions- one of them had indicated Oliver as a soft town lean:

    I would slightly town lean them for this. They could have backed off and clarified Oliver looks worse to them now but they held the position of a town lean on him. I feel like a wolf watching their buddy go down would have either taken my bait to consider a potential counter wagon or at least done some slight distancing in this situation.
    Please explain what the highlighted part (your bait) is referring to for me, and then explain why offering a counterwagon "bait" was actually a play that was in town's best interest.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Unfunny View Post
    How dare you send me another box of cereal
    Quote Originally Posted by ChannelMiner View Post
    Anyways I shot Brad due to my morbid fear of zombies.

  10. ISO #360

    Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    Yeah. Maybe I should swap Yayap and Mizery on that list. With a constant Discord I am confident the subject of Guillo would have come up. I do not see them using the level of WIFOM to fake a small town slip like that and I do not see a scum player not recognizing the town has a potential mechanical town block. The more I think about it the more comfortable I am from that post.
    I found this in your ISO when I was looking for the aforementioned bait and I just want to touch on it.

    I recently played a scum game with Mizery and they were completely and entirely absent from the chat. They made very few posts, very little commentary, and deferred all action selection to the rest of us. I believe that this was a special circumstance for Mizery, who at the time was going through a tough period, but I am in no way ruling out Mizery for missing the Guillo claim- even completely ignoring the possibility of it being a fake miss.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Unfunny View Post
    How dare you send me another box of cereal
    Quote Originally Posted by ChannelMiner View Post
    Anyways I shot Brad due to my morbid fear of zombies.

  11. ISO #361

    Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    I'm so glad that you worded it like this because that means that this was not intentional.

    Please explain what the highlighted part (your bait) is referring to for me, and then explain why offering a counterwagon "bait" was actually a play that was in town's best interest.
    I kind of already did. I could probably pull rants outside of the game that reflects my view on the subject but I did very clearly explain it here:
    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    Probably not of much game value to point out but the mafia nerd in me feels obligated to point out this is the point the town slightly blundered on. Without 2 trains minimal meaningful decisions could be made for use in post flip analysis. I like to think of wolves like rats on a boat. If a wolf sees their buddy's boat is sinking its in their self interest to abandon them but they will be incentivized to act against that if you give them hope. Could have made for a nice trap and even if another train went up it could easily be deflated by pointing out the substantial break in thought process as a perspective slip in Olivers play. People kept poking around his odd reasoning but I never saw anyone actually connect it to 'why' such inconsistency is indicative of a scum tell.
    Here is where I opened that door:
    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    The ATE reaction to being the top wagon was interesting. Made me slightly more comfortable with their lynch. I do not follow or agree with some of the conclusions they draw but most are not AI from what I see. I very much like that Guillo and Stealth are on that wagon as well. They also feel very survival focused.

    I really don't see a reason not to lynch them although I do not feel that some of the reasoning to scum read them is not great. The majority of the things people are reacting to felt more focused on bad reasoning which is less of an indicator of alignment than a part of peoples play unless you cut to inconsistency (which I did not really see people point out.) Maybe they were trying to pocket Guillo or not but I dont remember many original pushes outside of focusing on people pushing them which I did find concerning.
    This was me creating a way for a team mate to push against their lynch simply by poking me on the subject. It would have been an alignment indicator.
    I also edged in that direction here:
    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    Im ok with Oliver but would have preferred to see a counter wagon so people had to make a choice. Its a bit late to make one now and I dislike the idea of making a potential to swing the vote last second without people being able to weigh in.
    Again creating an opportunity for someone to poke at the potential for a last second vote shift by expressing I was simply 'ok' with the lynch and that a counter wagon would be a positive thing for the town.

    I believe the best traps are subtle. The ones that do not interrupt game flow and require attention grabbing gambits. You simply create people the opportunity to make decisions. In that situation it would have been a bad move for me to make an actual counter wagon but suggesting I was neutral on the lynch while pointing out why the reasoning for the lynch was bad and suggesting I wanted a counter train seemed like a good play. I hedged both statements mentioning how nobody touched on why the inconsistency was a scum tell in the slightest, pointing out the ATE reaction which nobody seemed to mention and mentioning how creating a counter train last minute would prevent people from weighing in to deal with questions after the fact.
    To be blunt if I was scum I could have nailed a truckload of reasoning on why we should lynch Oliver to the wall for the town cred. Just so you can read me better here is a bit of my thoughts on the hard bus
    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    -Deep Wolf Hard Bussing
    This is a particularly high risk high reward scum play that helps counter many scum hunting techniques. The idea is to hard bus a team mate to an extreme. Without a TPR stopping you if you hardcore championed the lynch of another mafia you will have an extreme unaligned tell between yourself and your team mate. I have rarely seen town reason around such a play when its done properly but doing it creates a WvW and can place you in a 1v1 which hurts your chances of establishing a TvT. A few things I believe players should focus on leading up to such an action:
    -Have progression natural leading up to the hard buss or leverage it off a slip. The last thing you want to do is TMI slip while lynching your partner
    -Keep in mind the bussed players position. If they are already going down at the time of the hard buss it can be easily reasoned around
    -Its good to have the hard bussed player buss other wolves or chainsaw defend town players for the post flip analysis
    [SPOILER=Example]https://forum.throneoflies.com/t/darling-in-the-franxx-sfm-game-over-mafia-win/87703/11863
    D3 Aelin places herself in a 1v1 CC against Wiisp after bussing him all game resulting in his lynch. All TPR were identified at this point and his flip basically guaranteed the win as that it would be nearly impossible to ever WIFOM around such a play with no TPR to break it with night checks
    Just with the players in the game I think Guillo was in that game and Yayap had a conversation with me quite a few years ago on how strongly I valued a deep wolf play.
    Past that if you want to read me I generally work to discredit strong town voices to power wolf. In that same guide draft I quoted you could look at the "Seeding aligned indicators with town" and "Seeding distrust/ setting up lynches in advance" bits and ask yourself if I am doing either. Im playing some really basic low level mafia this game even if I am the only one pushing the mechanical crunch.
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  12. ISO #362

    Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    I found this in your ISO when I was looking for the aforementioned bait and I just want to touch on it.

    I recently played a scum game with Mizery and they were completely and entirely absent from the chat. They made very few posts, very little commentary, and deferred all action selection to the rest of us. I believe that this was a special circumstance for Mizery, who at the time was going through a tough period, but I am in no way ruling out Mizery for missing the Guillo claim- even completely ignoring the possibility of it being a fake miss.
    You may have missed my interaction with Yayap shortly after where I said this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Yayap View Post
    The fact that the connection of Guillo and stealthbomber is so obvious, I can see something like that not being stated in the mafia chat. Which in turn would explain why mizery didn't see the connection if he only skimmed the day thread and relied on info in mafia chat. In any case, Mizery missed many posts that eluded to that connection and has pretty much not read much other than his confrontation with Martin who is now you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    That is a good point. Its also a very small game so note taking may not be a strong priority.
    To be clear I hunt for town slips every bit as hard as I hunt for scum slips. I personally find town slips to be more reliable because not many people fake them or even recognize they are a thing.

    That said, Why are you excluding Ikarusdk? They may be new but they do have Lumi in their ear (I do have to admit I want them to be the scum so I can say I did a 100% game solve 3 hours after jumping into a game D1)
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  13. ISO #363

  14. ISO #364

    Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Quote Originally Posted by luona View Post
    im sorry for being so not here i dont like being wagoned : ((
    Any feelings on sheeping Stealth/Guillo or what order you would lynch the people outside of that block?
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  15. ISO #365

    Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Quote Originally Posted by luona View Post
    im sorry for being so not here i dont like being wagoned : ((
    Meh

    -vote luona


    As rare as it is for me to pressure vote if we have to go back to policy lynching to get participation I will go there.
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  16. ISO #366

    Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft

    I finished work just now but I've been reading through posts during work.

    I still believe in what I put down previously before day 1 lynch, although aside from the top 3, the rest are more or less feelings rather than conclusions I came to based on evidence. I do stand by my reasoning in previous posts, but I still need to think harder why I believe Luona and Mizery are on my scum list.

    Stealthbomber16
    Guillo-Yapyap

    Helz
    Mizery-Luona



    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    You may have missed my interaction with Yayap shortly after where I said this:


    To be clear I hunt for town slips every bit as hard as I hunt for scum slips. I personally find town slips to be more reliable because not many people fake them or even recognize they are a thing.

    That said, Why are you excluding Ikarusdk? They may be new but they do have Lumi in their ear (I do have to admit I want them to be the scum so I can say I did a 100% game solve 3 hours after jumping into a game D1)
    I am going to ask Lumi if I can play without her coaching in my next one because I do feel uncomfortable this comes up to question in every page, and I feel this is unfair for you if you had to consider Lumi while reading my posts. Please feel free to ask Lumi post game how much input she's had in this game, I think this should be done before I participate the next game so you can gauge how I am so you can better read me. This should make subsequent games more comfortable for everyone.

  17. ISO #367

  18. ISO #368

    Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Quote Originally Posted by ikarusdk View Post
    -vote Luona


    Unless something solid forms in my head, I'm locking in Luona. It does make me feel uneasy though with my vote that she isn't trying to defend herself or redirect votes to somewhere given Oliver went out this way.
    I would rather see Luona participate more.

    For that matter where is @Guillo ? Took the position of town leader with that claim and walked into lynching the hard derping wolf. We could really use some leadership from a skilled confirmed townie to prevent the game from drawing into a lurk fest that sleeps through 2 lynches and flails at LYLO.

    Game tempo does not change Im probably just going to start trolling and throwing you some coaching stuff that will be useful in later games.

    For one thing on that note its crazy literally nobody has bothered to make any takes about the confirmed dead mafia's posts. In a game where people were more motivated that would be a pretty big priority.
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  19. ISO #369

    Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Quote Originally Posted by ikarusdk View Post
    I am going to ask Lumi if I can play without her coaching in my next one because I do feel uncomfortable this comes up to question in every page, and I feel this is unfair for you if you had to consider Lumi while reading my posts. Please feel free to ask Lumi post game how much input she's had in this game, I think this should be done before I participate the next game so you can gauge how I am so you can better read me. This should make subsequent games more comfortable for everyone.
    I think your gona do well man. Still rooting that your evil so my D1 guess was a slam dunk but your kinda a natural at this and will make a very strong player once you get a feel for how things work.
    Just so you know my attention on you has nothing to do with Lumi being behind you. If I was you I would just roll my eyes at the subject and not apologize. It should not be a defining factor in peoples reads.
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  20. ISO #370

  21. ISO #371

  22. ISO #372

    Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Quote Originally Posted by ikarusdk View Post
    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!
    You wana go for it do it bro.

    By reading others people will be able to read you better. You could do an in-context iso where you read through the entire thread and generate notes as you go or you could just iso them and grab whatever snags your attention.

    Theres lots of different techniques I am sure Lumi can throw at you but in general putting in some leg work does wonders to get you read correctly if you are town. If you are a wolf you gotta pick and choose how you say what you say. Unless I am doing some FPS shit I generally do not care how I am viewed and so long as I am pushing for the town its other peoples fuck up if they don't read me correctly. Take that approach and if you communicate well and you will be able to clear yourself unless a power wolf is gunning for you most of the time.
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  23. ISO #373

    Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    I think your gona do well man. Still rooting that your evil so my D1 guess was a slam dunk but your kinda a natural at this and will make a very strong player once you get a feel for how things work.
    Just so you know my attention on you has nothing to do with Lumi being behind you. If I was you I would just roll my eyes at the subject and not apologize. It should not be a defining factor in peoples reads.
    Thank you for your kind words. I am trying my best, although I am finding less and less time to pay attention every day. I don't worry too much about it. I just take it as a compliment from everyone but it does feel uncomfortable knowing what others might be thinking. So I still think you should ask her after the game finishes.

  24. ISO #374

    Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Quote Originally Posted by ikarusdk View Post
    I didn't even think to go back and read his posts again
    If nothing else read the basic tells in this https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...f-Scum-Hunting

    What your looking for is association tells. Often team scum avoid interactions so if this was not a tiny game with very few posts I could try to crunch that by looking at who has had minimal interactions with Oliver but has spoken about them/ for them.
    Then from Olivers side who has he voiced what about. Team scum also often hedge positions on etch other but its something meta comes into play with and you have to WIFOM out. So like.. My question to him as he was getting lynched he answered people he felt should be next. You could WIFOM out if he was shading townies or maybe trying to distance himself from a team mate.

    Valid fucking questions this town is just not interested in examining (Judgmental stare @ town)
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  25. ISO #375

    Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Quote Originally Posted by ikarusdk View Post
    Thank you for your kind words. I am trying my best, although I am finding less and less time to pay attention every day. I don't worry too much about it. I just take it as a compliment from everyone but it does feel uncomfortable knowing what others might be thinking. So I still think you should ask her after the game finishes.
    If I had to guess your statement that she is just answering questions is probably right. She is very principled like MM.

    I just do not like assuming and when I coached someone I threw them truckloads of stuff to work with. The fact Yayap is a high level pro and does not believe you are new given your play you should just take as a complement.
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  26. ISO #376

    Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    If nothing else read the basic tells in this https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...f-Scum-Hunting

    What your looking for is association tells. Often team scum avoid interactions so if this was not a tiny game with very few posts I could try to crunch that by looking at who has had minimal interactions with Oliver but has spoken about them/ for them.
    Then from Olivers side who has he voiced what about. Team scum also often hedge positions on etch other but its something meta comes into play with and you have to WIFOM out. So like.. My question to him as he was getting lynched he answered people he felt should be next. You could WIFOM out if he was shading townies or maybe trying to distance himself from a team mate.

    Valid fucking questions this town is just not interested in examining (Judgmental stare @ town)
    Thank you for this, I haven't read this one yet. I will go over this, study old posts here, do my own analysis and when I have something more than just 'feelings', ill come back and write something.

  27. ISO #377

    Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Quote Originally Posted by ikarusdk View Post
    Thank you for this, I haven't read this one yet. I will go over this, study old posts here, do my own analysis and when I have something more than just 'feelings', ill come back and write something.
    Its always going to just be feelings. If your serious about getting better re-read your games afterword's to see what you missed or what you did that allowed others to catch you.
    Takes a bit of time but that alone will make you a much better player than everyone who just stumbles through games and moves onto the next one.
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  28. ISO #378

    Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft

    I may not be around for the end of the day. My friends suggested they may want to BBQ at my house and if that happens I won't be posting.

    I genuinely think everyone should just do some follow the cop and that the priest should protect Guillo/Stealth for best chances. If the scum kills outside of those two and does not hit the priest its game over so the 4p remaining if we misslynch is a low protection priority while it forces the scum into a 50/50 that insulates the priest.

    If nothing else anyone that understands the deductive logic behind that should be able to recognize my alignment just from pushing that strategy.
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  29. ISO #379

    Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  30. ISO #380

    Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  31. ISO #381

    Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft


    (moar judgmental stares)
    Im dun...
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  32. ISO #382

    Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    You may have missed my interaction with Yayap shortly after where I said this:
    I didn't miss it. Just offering a different point of view.

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    To be clear I hunt for town slips every bit as hard as I hunt for scum slips. I personally find town slips to be more reliable because not many people fake them or even recognize they are a thing.
    I play in a similar vein but I strongly disagree with you calling that a "town slip".

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    That said, Why are you excluding Ikarusdk?
    Ikarus's posts and reads, particularly prior to the elim of oli, have aligned extremely closely with my own.

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    They may be new but they do have Lumi in their ear (I do have to admit I want them to be the scum so I can say I did a 100% game solve 3 hours after jumping into a game D1)
    My read on Ikarus has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that they are new. They're playing extremely well.

    The shadow hybrid with Lumi is having significantly less impact than you think it is. I seriously doubt Lumi is spoonfeeding ikarus reads to post in the thread as any alignment. I did shadow hybrid a new player, once upon a time, and the way it works is that you just help your player explain their reads and give them directions on where to look next when they get stuck.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Unfunny View Post
    How dare you send me another box of cereal
    Quote Originally Posted by ChannelMiner View Post
    Anyways I shot Brad due to my morbid fear of zombies.

  33. ISO #383

    Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft

    My reads and gameplay tend to be "does this make sense for a townsperson to think/say/act like?" Oli? Didn't make a lick of sense. Luona coming in, making a single post, and leaving doesn't make any sense.

    I have fully understood everything that ikarus has presented thus far in his reads, depthwise. He has provided several interesting points of information to the table that make a lot of sense for him to have identified. There's not been a single ounce of holding something back or mechanical shenanigans the way that Guillo or yourself have been using. It's just straight up admirable, honest townplay. Can that be faked? Absolutely, that's how I play deepwolf. Do I think that's happening here? Absolutely not. And I'm willing to eat those words later.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Unfunny View Post
    How dare you send me another box of cereal
    Quote Originally Posted by ChannelMiner View Post
    Anyways I shot Brad due to my morbid fear of zombies.

  34. ISO #384

  35. ISO #385

    Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    I didn't miss it. Just offering a different point of view.



    I play in a similar vein but I strongly disagree with you calling that a "town slip".



    Ikarus's posts and reads, particularly prior to the elim of oli, have aligned extremely closely with my own.



    My read on Ikarus has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that they are new. They're playing extremely well.

    The shadow hybrid with Lumi is having significantly less impact than you think it is. I seriously doubt Lumi is spoonfeeding ikarus reads to post in the thread as any alignment. I did shadow hybrid a new player, once upon a time, and the way it works is that you just help your player explain their reads and give them directions on where to look next when they get stuck.
    Im not sure if its a formal thing now. I think the concept came up in a skype conversation years ago and there was an entire game of coaching archons. That was my only experience and I believe it was the first of its kind either on any other site or on this one. In that one I did quite a bit more than just answer questions.
    But that speaks to my experience. If you were not confirmed I would question why you would not have corrected that yourself for other people this game.
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  36. ISO #386

    Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    FWIW I no longer think you have a chance of being scum, Helz. Yayap has taken your spot on my solve order.
    The LOL catting does wonders : )
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  37. ISO #387

    Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft

    So for Yayap I felt like he noticed something specific that he did not mention. Pretty much why I have not messed with him. Poke me on it tomorrow and I will explain if we are both alive.

    As time goes on if he does not step up and push I would be more suspicious of him. He is generally a strong town leader and did not have a subtle presence D1 but he was on the right lynch.
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  38. ISO #388

    Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    So for Yayap I felt like he noticed something specific that he did not mention. Pretty much why I have not messed with him. Poke me on it tomorrow and I will explain if we are both alive.

    As time goes on if he does not step up and push I would be more suspicious of him. He is generally a strong town leader and did not have a subtle presence D1 but he was on the right lynch.
    I would be quite surprised if Yayap is scum. But I think it is possible.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Unfunny View Post
    How dare you send me another box of cereal
    Quote Originally Posted by ChannelMiner View Post
    Anyways I shot Brad due to my morbid fear of zombies.

  39. ISO #389

    Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    But that speaks to my experience. If you were not confirmed I would question why you would not have corrected that yourself for other people this game.
    You are the one who has had the most issue with it by a wide margin.

    Guillo also expressed suspicion of it but he's Guillo and by extension expresses suspicion over everything. I'm impressed that he hasn't expressed suspicion of me yet- even though he confirmed me as town.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Unfunny View Post
    How dare you send me another box of cereal
    Quote Originally Posted by ChannelMiner View Post
    Anyways I shot Brad due to my morbid fear of zombies.

  40. ISO #390

    Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    I would rather see Luona participate more.

    For that matter where is @Guillo ? Took the position of town leader with that claim and walked into lynching the hard derping wolf. We could really use some leadership from a skilled confirmed townie to prevent the game from drawing into a lurk fest that sleeps through 2 lynches and flails at LYLO.

    Game tempo does not change Im probably just going to start trolling and throwing you some coaching stuff that will be useful in later games.

    For one thing on that note its crazy literally nobody has bothered to make any takes about the confirmed dead mafia's posts. In a game where people were more motivated that would be a pretty big priority.
    This town leader is not available to take your call, please try again later.

    (There can only be one town leader and my partner has been discrediting my reads, so im gonna let him run the show). Im sheeping Stealthbomber16
    Tell the truth and you'll lie good.

  41. ISO #391

    Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    I would be quite surprised if Yayap is scum. But I think it is possible.
    I think its as simple as Mizery/Luona

    My ego hopes Ika could be it but I am not holding my breath

    Yayap is very low on my list. Still hoping he is gona jump in and step up soon because D2 has been a lurkfest. The important thing I see for the game state is that we are in a numbers game. The town has 3 lynches if Priest fails all the way. If scum hits off your town block they loose so priest is going to run 50/50 most likely. Who knows with the amount of attention people are paying.
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  42. ISO #392

    Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Quote Originally Posted by Guillo View Post
    This town leader is not available to take your call, please try again later.

    (There can only be one town leader and my partner has been discrediting my reads, so im gonna let him run the show). Im sheeping Stealthbomber16
    I'm disagreeing with you. That isn't an invitation for you to stop playing how you want to play.

    If I'd known this game would be fucking dead right now I would've let you keep going on ikarus for a while.
    Quote Originally Posted by S-FM Unfunny View Post
    How dare you send me another box of cereal
    Quote Originally Posted by ChannelMiner View Post
    Anyways I shot Brad due to my morbid fear of zombies.

  43. ISO #393

    Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Quote Originally Posted by Guillo View Post
    This town leader is not available to take your call, please try again later.

    (There can only be one town leader and my partner has been discrediting my reads, so im gonna let him run the show). Im sheeping Stealthbomber16
    If thats what you want but you get very low credit for the D1 lynch. That guy shot himself in the foot so hard I could not even spin a trap.

    If you want to push that your the best snag the scum. Its not like you really need reads now that I lined you up with a 3 lynch out of a 5p with a 50% heal rate. This game should be a low effort slam dunk for you.

    Might want to weigh in on the mechanical crunch if nothing else if your just going to kick your feet up so people get behind a unified strategy.
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  44. ISO #394

    Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Really though. You don't get to reveal as the mayor then refuse to lead.
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  45. ISO #395

    Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Quote Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16 View Post
    I'm disagreeing with you. That isn't an invitation for you to stop playing how you want to play.

    If I'd known this game would be fucking dead right now I would've let you keep going on ikarus for a while.
    But you didnt, so run the show now. Im multitabling so if you can do the work for me i will not complain.
    Tell the truth and you'll lie good.

  46. ISO #396

    Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Quote Originally Posted by Guillo View Post
    But you didnt, so run the show now. Im multitabling so if you can do the work for me i will not complain.
    So before you check out and pass the torch please review the mechanical crunch and voice if you believe its sound to at least unify the town...
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  47. ISO #397

    Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    If thats what you want but you get very low credit for the D1 lynch. That guy shot himself in the foot so hard I could not even spin a trap.

    If you want to push that your the best snag the scum. Its not like you really need reads now that I lined you up with a 3 lynch out of a 5p with a 50% heal rate. This game should be a low effort slam dunk for you.

    Might want to weigh in on the mechanical crunch if nothing else if your just going to kick your feet up so people get behind a unified strategy.
    I buried a wolf and im not CCed, i need no more credit, it’s you and everyone else except for SB, who needs to worry about getting cred from us
    I dont care about mechanics. As long as SB remains protected im good.
    Tell the truth and you'll lie good.

  48. ISO #398

  49. ISO #399

  50. ISO #400

    Re: S-FM 346: Warcraft

    Quote Originally Posted by Guillo View Post
    I buried a wolf and im not CCed, i need no more credit, it’s you and everyone else except for SB, who needs to worry about getting cred from us
    I dont care about mechanics. As long as SB remains protected im good.
    Noooo dude.
    Do not walk away and act like you made your contribution to the game and playing is not your problem.

    You revealed and made yourself the confirmed town block. If you have other games going or whatever thats cool. If you want to pass it off to Stealth and lurk thats your call but I don't credit much to that first lynch.

    Before you go lurk look at the fucking town strategy and either voice support or say it sucks so we can move forward. Do not walk away and act like this game is no longer your problem because 1 scum was lynched.

    At the very least look at the mechanical crunch and unify the town before you walk off and hang it on Stealth.
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

 

 

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