General Feedback

[Exeter350]

Compilation of all of my feedback on Discord and more, in a single thread.

Feedback:

Lover
* Mid-game AFK Lover issue -- If Lover dies from AFK heart attack mid-game, their Love dies too even if they were actively participating
* Jailed / Roleblocked Lover issue -- If Lover is jailed / rb'd N1, he is unable to pick a Love and automatically dies by suicide
* Potential Lover settings:

• Falls in love with roleblockers -- ON/OFF -- May help to address N1 Jail / Roleblock issue
• Target is notified -- ON/OFF -- Toggles whether ability is confirmable or not, similar to Witch, Amnesiac, Arsonist
• Must survive to the end to win -- ON/OFF -- If OFF, as long as the Love wins, the Lover will also win. Similar concept to Amnesiac picking a side
• Heartbreak can be healed by Doctor -- ON/OFF
• Target dies if Lover dies -- ON/OFF -- If OFF, becomes one-sided love

Party Host
* Consider categorizing under Town Government instead
* Party Host's ability to self-confirm and lead Town discussion is in-line with other Government roles:

• Mayor : Self-confirm, additional votes
• Marshall : Self-confirm, additional lynches
• Crier : Self-confirm, ability to coordinate Town at night
• Party Host : Self-confirm, additional discussion time by extending day chat to night

* To enhance the Town Gov aspect, consider giving Party Host special text in party chat -- Similar to Crier / Judge in courts


Godfather / Dragon Head
* Option to make RBI should be reinstated
* Current meta (933, 8331, other variants) has 1 Godfather and 2 surbordinates which usually exclude Mafioso
* Blockable Godfather can result in Escort continuously blocking Mafia kills until Godfather suicides, since Mafia usually do not have Mafioso
* In 1.0, only Jailor can do this, and it can be counterplayed by successfully manipulating day chat into a lynch OR Godfather suicide
* In 2.0, there is almost no counterplay to Escort endless roleblock beyond Godfather suicide


Spy
* 1-shot immunity should be toggleable as Option / removed entirely
* Being able to see Mafia & Triad targets is a sufficiently useful ability:

• Gives a hint on what Mafia roles are present in-game (visiting / non-visiting)
• Gives a hint on which players are less likely to be Mafia based on targets (unless Beguiler, Actress, etc)
• Shows Mafia targets which allows players to cross reference against LW (assuming Mafia keeps LW claim in-line with actual night actions; deviating from night actions can lead to their lie being caught by LO / Det)

* Spy is powerful and unique as it is, and it is not exceptionally vulnerable to night attacks -- There is no reason for it to have 1-shot immunity


Witch
* 1-shot immunity should be toggleable as Option / removed entirely
* No other Neutral role excluding Survivor has this ability even though they are all equally vulnerable to night attack
* In the same way that it made no sense for Executioner to be night immune, there is no reason for Witch to have 1-shot immunity


New Town Roles
* New Town roles generally not as useful as other existing roles
* Oracle needs to die in order to use their ability ONCE in the entire match -- While revealing identity is a powerful ability, the use conditions are niche and the impact highly variable (can be somewhat useful or completely useless)
* Street Racer is like nerfed Bus Driver or buffed Citizen
* Fruit Vendor's ability to self-confirm is useful, but not as useful as other roles
* Enchantress is OK - Self-confirm & ability to lure and repel is similar to Bus Driver
* Armorsmith is strong - Self-confirmable in addition to Protection ability


New Town Categories
* Newly-added Town Support category mainly contains weaker roles (as of writing: Citizen, Escort, Party Host, Oracle, Street Racer, Mason, Coroner)
* Current meta is 933 / 8331 where Town usually contains:

• 1 Gov
• 2 Invest
• 2 Prot
• 1 Killing
• 1 Power
• 2 (or 1) Random

* This results in fairly balanced Town with higher numbers of integral basic roles, and low numbers of powerful Killing / Power roles
* Replacing a Town Random slot with Town Support reduces open-endedness, which makes role counting much easier & reduces possible claims for Evils to use
* Invest and Prot roles are generally harder to prove, whereas Killing and Power roles are much easier
* In that same vein, I propose the following categories:
* Investigative

• Sheriff
• Investigator
• Detective
• Lookout
• Coroner (no longer under Support)

* Killing (what it says on the tin):

• Vigilante
• Jailor (no longer under Power)
• Veteran (no longer under Power)
• Bodyguard

* Power (easily confirmable roles):

• Bus Driver
• Spy
• Enchantress
• Escort (no longer under Support)

* Support (passive, non-visiting, Citizen-like roles):

• Citizen
• Street Racer
• Oracle
• Mason

Elector
* Concept sounds useful and interesting
* If ability is too strong, consider nerfing number of possible uses of vote rigging? E.g. 2 uses max instead of 4 / unlimited (if all boxes unchecked), similar to Judge


*************************

Bugs:

Expanded Save System
* Pressing Save button always saves on Slot 1, regardless of which slot you are editing -- 12/12/21 Bug: Was editing Slot 3, pressed Save button, saved on Slot 2 instead
* -emulate, -max and -chance commands not giving accurate feedback -- E.g. Emulate can roll Escort in Town Prot slot despite Escort being shifted into Town Support
* -max and -chance does not work for Mafia, Triad and Neutral roles
* Elector role setting error prevents some setups from starting, after Elector was disabled


Spy
* 13/12/21 Bug: Spy is still able to see Mafia and Triad night chat, and can see their ACTUAL NAMES, not just "Mafia" and "Triad" Spy day-chat echo bug


Veteran
* 13/12/21 Bug: Veteran dies to his own alert when alerting


*************************

Commendations:

UI / QOL:
* Additional save slots and save names much appreciated
* Handy shortcuts -- Tab for Log, Ctrl for Chatbox size
* Useful Player number in front of Player name helps identify players easily when many coloured names are present
* Ability to scroll Log with mousewheel

Actress / Diva
* Niche but strong ability that requires death to activate, but can throw off Town / rolecounting completely
* Adds depth to the game in terms of deduction
* Thematically aligned name

[Skrundead]

+1

[Frinckles]

Hey Exeter, thank you for the detailed feedback. I'll try to address everything you brought up.

Lover:
-Lovers/HB/Swinger will be unable to die by suicide in the next patch; I'd normally just put this on the Lover role, but I don't want HB/Swinger to be distinguishable or add any unnecessary laziness to the role.
-Jailed/Roleblocked Lover/HB/Swinger should be fixed in the current patch, they fall in love with whatever captor they have.
-I'll be looking to posts like this in the future for Lover settings once people are more acquainted with the role.

Party Host:
-I don't think Party Host is a town government role and don't want to make it a glorified crier. The fact that Mafia can communicate at night with Spy's nerfs have still not caught up to the community yet. This means, as far as I can tell, means the ability to disrupt team chats is currently minimal. I do think it will become more powerful in the future.

Godfather / Dragonhead:
-RBI option will be back next patch. While moving Escort to town support did reduce the overbearing shittiness of roleblocking town members over and over, the removal of RBI for GF/DH was admittedly overkill.

Spy:
-The one-shot NI, while thematically cool imo, does feel bad because a Spy can literally claim day 1 and have very little to worry about. I agree that it may have been overcompensation for removing the ability to read night chat, and it will be removed.

Witch:
-I'm also removing this option next patch because I think that it's an interesting concept but it would likely only have niche uses. On top of that, it's causing issues on the topic of Witch v Enchantress and I need those bugs resolved sooner than later, if they exist.

New Town Roles/Categories:
-I'm not going to speculate on how you guys balance your saves with the new town support category. You are free to completely exclude it if you want.

Elector:
-Lol he's disabled indefinitely. The elector save bug was also fixed.

Saves:
-Working on hammering out small bugs there.

Veteran Suicide Bug:
-Should be resolved currently.


Hope I covered everything; feel free to keep this open and add more as you continue to test. Thank you for the feedback Exeter.

[Exeter350]

Some recent suggestions on the Discord:

Anti-Repick:
* In case of 3 repicks, automatically switch to Default (933 / 8331) and lock in
* Prevents repick-trains that wastes everyone's time and often leads to the entire lobby quitting
* If the lobby cannot decide what it wants to play, the game will default to a "proper" setup (as opposed to Chaos, which is intended for casual fun with little regard for balance)

-default:
* Currently doesn't work, no setup is loaded when -default runs. If a setup is already loaded, the game will just continue with that setup
* -default should be locked in once it gains sufficient votes. In 1.0, when -default loads a SOTD save, the host can just override it by loading another setup
* Additional commands should be added for Chaos mode and SOTD (if you do reinstate it)

Anti-Spam:
* Block consecutive identical messages
* Prevents CTRL+C CTRL+V spam
* Can be bypassed by adding a character to the end of the copy-pasted message, but it helps mitigate the spam

[Frinckles]

Some recent suggestions on the Discord:

Anti-Repick:
* In case of 3 repicks, automatically switch to Default (933 / 8331) and lock in
* Prevents repick-trains that wastes everyone's time and often leads to the entire lobby quitting
* If the lobby cannot decide what it wants to play, the game will default to a "proper" setup (as opposed to Chaos, which is intended for casual fun with little regard for balance)

-default:
* Currently doesn't work, no setup is loaded when -default runs. If a setup is already loaded, the game will just continue with that setup
* -default should be locked in once it gains sufficient votes. In 1.0, when -default loads a SOTD save, the host can just override it by loading another setup
* Additional commands should be added for Chaos mode and SOTD (if you do reinstate it)

Anti-Spam:
* Block consecutive identical messages
* Prevents CTRL+C CTRL+V spam
* Can be bypassed by adding a character to the end of the copy-pasted message, but it helps mitigate the spam

Good suggestions;

Default should be updated in the current version and will default to 8331 Standard.
Anti-Spam has been adjusted slightly. It's finnicky and I don't want to completely shut-out any urgency players have. If players are being assholes, just report them.

If anything else arises, please feel free to make another thread. I enjoy quality of life improvements.

Closing this thread.