S-FM 316 : The Fooling Party - Page 51
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  1. ISO #2501

    Re: S-FM 316 : The Fooling Party

    So not to steal Frinckles reigns but I kinda function off challenge. The lack of it has me loosing interest.

    If everyone is on board with the mechanical solve people (Especially PRs @Renegade @MartinGG99 ) should roger up to it and we can quick hammer this day.

    If some want time to hunt to solve thats cool too, just voice it. I do believe that unless someone wants to hunt to solve we should just get this struggle bus moving though.
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  2. ISO #2502

    Re: S-FM 316 : The Fooling Party

    Yikes. Helz continues to look worse with every post made.

    Goofy
    Quote Originally Posted by Mesk514 View Post
    1-I really and truly believe @Unknown1234 is town. He stuck by me when I needed him
    Quote Originally Posted by Gyrlander View Post
    Wow, this game was really easy. I just had to talk dumb shit to survive some days more. :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    If sheriff cleared you honestly I would take him out of my town core and put him as scum.

  3. ISO #2503

  4. ISO #2504

    Re: S-FM 316 : The Fooling Party

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    Jokes on you.

    I'm busdriver.

    -vote Oberon
    I'm making a mental note of something myself for now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mesk514 View Post
    1-I really and truly believe @Unknown1234 is town. He stuck by me when I needed him
    Quote Originally Posted by Gyrlander View Post
    Wow, this game was really easy. I just had to talk dumb shit to survive some days more. :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    If sheriff cleared you honestly I would take him out of my town core and put him as scum.

  5. ISO #2505

  6. ISO #2506

    Re: S-FM 316 : The Fooling Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Unknown1234 View Post
    Yikes. Helz continues to look worse with every post made.

    Goofy
    I’m honestly not about an early hammer if even you want more time to post. Just through the days this was our high volume post time and today it’s quiet for the last hour or three.

    I pretty much see you in the same boat as DM was though.

    Honestly you played really well. Before your cc I really did have you pegged as town. Not just town but one of my highest town reads too.
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  7. ISO #2507

    Re: S-FM 316 : The Fooling Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    Honestly you played really well. Before your cc I really did have you pegged as town. Not just town but one of my highest town reads too.
    Preetty much the same position here.

    If Escort/Shopkeeper happened after the bus/switch (which I think it normally does in the mod), then you probably would've had a good chance of a clean win on LYLO imo. I quite possibly would been convinced to eliminate Helz at some point and I may have been open to doing that on LYLO; I did suggest that on D3 at one point I think.

    God, this setup was chaotic though and I have no clue whether its balanced or not.

    It certainly need strong mechanical solving or play by any and/or every side though fmpov

    and I wonder if I would've not figured it out if I was just a civilian rather than a PR busdriver


    Also that D3 mass claim along with a triad random dead by EoD3....nobody could've predicted how it was going to turn out and yet in some ways it very conveniently solved some problems (or gave a plausible answer for) such as this:

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MattZed View Post
    What if Helz is DH and the N2 kill was actually a sniper kill?
    I suppose that's possible, at face value.

    But then that would mean that they're the last triad random

    meaning any TPR claims that have given mechanical information are without a doubt proven

    because sniper has no Town counterpart

    meaning Naz, Renegade, and Frinckles are both town as well as myself (unless you're thinking DH martin with town Renegade)

    And that means the other TPR claims

    Helz and Unkown are both triad

    because we only get 5 TPR's (including Obereon who's dead)
    A.K.A "That One Idiot"

  8. ISO #2508

    Re: S-FM 316 : The Fooling Party

    Also I feel bad for Deathworlds.

    I feel like anyone who gets taken down like that missed out on a lot, and it wasn't even due to Deathworld's play. The elimination got forced upon him, regardless if he was town or triad and regardless of his play.
    A.K.A "That One Idiot"

  9. ISO #2509

    Re: S-FM 316 : The Fooling Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    I’m honestly not about an early hammer if even you want more time to post. Just through the days this was our high volume post time and today it’s quiet for the last hour or three.

    I pretty much see you in the same boat as DM was though.

    Honestly you played really well. Before your cc I really did have you pegged as town. Not just town but one of my highest town reads too.
    I'm still under the impression that you aren't town, so in the case that you aren't props to you for managing to be the most towny player up until day 3. I think after that you've been more focused on discrediting my reads and trying to scum-paint Renegade's night actions as scum sided. I don't intend to have a discussion with you about this anymore, but if you are town lynching me will end in a loss, and I will be doing a read on Martin as soon as I feel up for reading through the game all over again.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mesk514 View Post
    1-I really and truly believe @Unknown1234 is town. He stuck by me when I needed him
    Quote Originally Posted by Gyrlander View Post
    Wow, this game was really easy. I just had to talk dumb shit to survive some days more. :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    If sheriff cleared you honestly I would take him out of my town core and put him as scum.

  10. ISO #2510

    Re: S-FM 316 : The Fooling Party

    This game has been a real shit show to deal with in terms of solving but in a good way. I've enjoyed all of it and would happily play it again if it ended up being hosted in the future.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mesk514 View Post
    1-I really and truly believe @Unknown1234 is town. He stuck by me when I needed him
    Quote Originally Posted by Gyrlander View Post
    Wow, this game was really easy. I just had to talk dumb shit to survive some days more. :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    If sheriff cleared you honestly I would take him out of my town core and put him as scum.

  11. ISO #2511

    Re: S-FM 316 : The Fooling Party

    I am confirmed town. Frinckles is 95% confirmed and I'm taking him out of the PoE.

    We then have 3 triad and 3 town in: Martin, Helz, Unknown, FrostByte, Renegade, Naz.

    This gives 20 possible scum teams, and I'll note those that seem impossible:
    Martin+Helz+Unknown (Possible in multiple ways)
    Martin+Helz+FrostByte (Possible only if DH=Martin, CA=Helz, FrostByte=Any)
    Martin+Helz+Renegade (Possible only if DH=Martin, CA=Helz, Moulder=Renegade; OR Renegade+Martin are huge liars)
    Martin+Helz+Naz (Possible only if DH=Martin, CA=Helz, Spy=Naz)
    Martin+Unknown+FrostByte (Possible only if DH/CA is Martin/Unknown, Any=FrostByte)
    Martin+Unknown+Renegade (Possible only if DH/CA is Martin/Unknown or Unknown/Martin; OR Renegade+Martin are huge liars)
    Martin+Unknown+Naz (Possible only if DH/CA is Martin/Unknown or Unknown/Martin, Spy=Naz)
    Martin+FrostByte+Renegade (Almost Impossible; FrostByte would have to be the any and Renegade+Martin would be lying about a lock that doesn't exist and the DH didn't even try to kill N1)
    Martin+FrostByte+Naz (Possible only if DH=Martin, CA=FrostByte, Spy=Naz)
    Martin+Renegade+Naz (Almost Impossible; Renegade AND Martin would have to be lying their assess off about a lock that doesn't exist and DH chose to not NK N1 or Naz would need to have GUESSED DM visited DW)
    Helz+Unknown+FrostByte (Possible only if DH=Unknown, CA=Helz, Any=FrostByte)
    Helz+Unknown+Renegade (Possible only if DH=Unknown, CA=Helz, Renegade=Moulder)
    Helz+Unknown+Naz (Possible only if DH=Unknown, CA=Helz, Spy=Naz)
    Helz+FrostByte+Renegade (Impossible; FrostByte can't be DH/CA/ or any if Naz and Martin are telling the truth)
    Helz+FrostByte+Naz (Impossible; Naz would have to be Spy, so we can't have the same person do N2/N3 kill)
    Helz+Renegade+Naz (Impossible; Naz+Renegade can't both by Triad any)
    Unknown+FrostByte+Renegade (Impossible; FrostByte can't be DH/CA/ or any if Naz and Martin are telling the truth)
    Unknown+FrostByte+Naz (Possible only if DH=Unknown, CA=FrostByte, and Spy=Naz (who lied about FB today))
    Unknown+Renegade+Naz (Impossible; Naz+Renegade can't both by Triad any)
    FrostByte+Renegade+Naz (Impossible; Naz+Renegade can't both by Triad any)

    ASSUMPTIONS:
    1. Town is always telling the truth
    2. Naz is either a detective or a spy, not a lucky guesser
    3. Every flip in the graveyard is correct
    4. Frinckles and I are town
    (optional) 5. A Locksmith or Moulder exists

    Conclusions: (with assumption 5)
    1. We're left with 14 possibilities, or only 12 if I add the assumption that a Locksmith/Moulder exists:
    Martin+Helz+Unknown
    Martin+Helz+FrostByte (with Martin DH, Helz CA, FrostByte Any)
    Martin+Helz+Renegade (with Martin DH, Helz CA, Renegade Moulder)
    Martin+Helz+Naz (with Martin DH, Helz CA, Naz Spy)
    Martin+Unknown+FrostByte (with FrostByte Triad Any)
    Martin+Unknown+Renegade (with Renegade Moulder)
    Martin+Unknown+Naz (with Naz Spy)
    Martin+FrostByte+Naz (with Martin DH, FrostByte CA, Naz Spy)
    Helz+Unknown+FrostByte (with Unknown DH, Helz CA, FrostByte Any)
    Helz+Unknown+Renegade (with Unknown DH, Helz CA, Renegade Moulder)
    Helz+Unknown+Naz (with Unknown DH, Helz CA, Naz Spy)
    Unknown+FrostByte+Naz (with Unknown DH, FrostByte CA, Naz Spy)
    2. At least one of Martin/Unknown is Triad
    3. Unless triad is Martin+Helz+Unknown, Helz has to be CA if he's triad
    4. If Renegade is triad, then Naz and FrostByte are town
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrow View Post
    What. You got me. Stop unvoting and stretch my neck, dammit.

  12. ISO #2512

  13. ISO #2513

    Re: S-FM 316 : The Fooling Party

    Quote Originally Posted by MattZed View Post
    Conclusion 5: If Helz is town, he knows Frostbyte is CA, Naz is Spy, and Unknown or Martin are DH.
    Please ignore this false statement. This only holds if Helz strongly believes Martin or Unknown to be town.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrow View Post
    What. You got me. Stop unvoting and stretch my neck, dammit.

  14. ISO #2514

    Re: S-FM 316 : The Fooling Party

    I'll need to mull our day strategy some more. I'd personally like to see a Martin vs. Unknown thunderdome, but yeeting someone based scumminess (like FrostByte) isn't a crazy idea either.

    Unknown is probably dead. I will probably re-look at Martin's posts, probably decide Martin is likely town, and from there agree to axe Unknown.

    Unknown is just not at all expecting how I would expect a town in his position to react.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrow View Post
    What. You got me. Stop unvoting and stretch my neck, dammit.

  15. ISO #2515

    Re: S-FM 316 : The Fooling Party

    Last thought before I sign off: If Helz+Unknown are both town, then Martin is DH, FrostByte is CA, and Naz is Spy. In this hypothetical world, Naz actually knows her whole team AND knows who, if anyone, is bound.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrow View Post
    What. You got me. Stop unvoting and stretch my neck, dammit.

  16. ISO #2516

    Re: S-FM 316 : The Fooling Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Unknown1234 View Post
    I'm still under the impression that you aren't town, so in the case that you aren't props to you for managing to be the most towny player up until day 3. I think after that you've been more focused on discrediting my reads and trying to scum-paint Renegade's night actions as scum sided. I don't intend to have a discussion with you about this anymore, but if you are town lynching me will end in a loss, and I will be doing a read on Martin as soon as I feel up for reading through the game all over again.
    So how certain are you Renegade is town? I mean.. If you are town you will be vindicated by your flip. Why not provide some reasoning to why Renegade is town even if we have a mechanical solve for that slot?
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  17. ISO #2517

    Re: S-FM 316 : The Fooling Party

    Quote Originally Posted by MattZed View Post
    Last thought before I sign off: If Helz+Unknown are both town, then Martin is DH, FrostByte is CA, and Naz is Spy. In this hypothetical world, Naz actually knows her whole team AND knows who, if anyone, is bound.
    So you are 100% town to me but I am really interested in understanding how you came to this conclusion. Like.. Not even game related I just want to understand the thought process.
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  18. ISO #2518

    Re: S-FM 316 : The Fooling Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    So you are 100% town to me but I am really interested in understanding how you came to this conclusion. Like.. Not even game related I just want to understand the thought process.
    I don't think there's anything especially brilliant to this conclusion...

    Frinckles and I are town. If you+Unknown are town, there is ONE town left. It cannot be Naz: she saw FB visit a person who didn't die, which means FB isn't DH or CA. But he can't be the random Triad either because we're out of TPRs, meaning Renegade would be the Random Triad. Thus, Naz isn't the last town.

    If Naz isn't the last town, then Naz is scum, specifically the random triad. This means Renegade can't be the random triad, so Renegade is town. Thus we've found the living town as Frinckles+me+you+Unknown+Renegade, leaving the other three as triad. From Naz's claimed night actions, we can infer what she saw.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrow View Post
    What. You got me. Stop unvoting and stretch my neck, dammit.

  19. ISO #2519

    Re: S-FM 316 : The Fooling Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    So how certain are you Renegade is town? I mean.. If you are town you will be vindicated by your flip. Why not provide some reasoning to why Renegade is town even if we have a mechanical solve for that slot?
    I already explained why I thought Renegade was town. I disagree quite heavily with your argument on him as well, and honestly everything you've said against him feels like you're trying to force a scum-read on him.

    At this point the game is lost if you lynch me as that guarantees that Martin is triad and can't save anyone from his bus night actions.

    "Mechanical solve" means nothing if the game will be over before Martin's strategy can ever come into play. If you don't see it as a stalling tactic to add reasoning as to why he shouldn't be lynched, you are being blind on purpose.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mesk514 View Post
    1-I really and truly believe @Unknown1234 is town. He stuck by me when I needed him
    Quote Originally Posted by Gyrlander View Post
    Wow, this game was really easy. I just had to talk dumb shit to survive some days more. :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    If sheriff cleared you honestly I would take him out of my town core and put him as scum.

  20. ISO #2520

    Re: S-FM 316 : The Fooling Party

    Quote Originally Posted by MattZed View Post
    I'll need to mull our day strategy some more. I'd personally like to see a Martin vs. Unknown thunderdome, but yeeting someone based scumminess (like FrostByte) isn't a crazy idea either.

    Unknown is probably dead. I will probably re-look at Martin's posts, probably decide Martin is likely town, and from there agree to axe Unknown.

    Unknown is just not at all expecting how I would expect a town in his position to react.
    I kinda don't know what you'd expect me to do at this point because there really isn't much else I can say if people decided before I even entered the thread today that I was triad when I'm not. I already said I would do a read on where Martin being DH makes sense, but I have not had the energy to sit down and dedicate a long period of time to reading through the game and digging through quotes. I already showed clearly where my role is showing in my play, something that you did not decide to comment on.

    I really believe you're trying to compare my town playstyle to yours, which is something that will never work. You even say yourself that you've got an idea on how to meta read me, and I think if you follow that then you can see that I'm town here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mesk514 View Post
    1-I really and truly believe @Unknown1234 is town. He stuck by me when I needed him
    Quote Originally Posted by Gyrlander View Post
    Wow, this game was really easy. I just had to talk dumb shit to survive some days more. :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    If sheriff cleared you honestly I would take him out of my town core and put him as scum.

  21. ISO #2521

    Re: S-FM 316 : The Fooling Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Unknown1234 View Post
    I kinda don't know what you'd expect me to do at this point because there really isn't much else I can say if people decided before I even entered the thread today that I was triad when I'm not. I already said I would do a read on where Martin being DH makes sense, but I have not had the energy to sit down and dedicate a long period of time to reading through the game and digging through quotes. I already showed clearly where my role is showing in my play, something that you did not decide to comment on.

    I really believe you're trying to compare my town playstyle to yours, which is something that will never work. You even say yourself that you've got an idea on how to meta read me, and I think if you follow that then you can see that I'm town here.
    @MattZed
    Quote Originally Posted by Mesk514 View Post
    1-I really and truly believe @Unknown1234 is town. He stuck by me when I needed him
    Quote Originally Posted by Gyrlander View Post
    Wow, this game was really easy. I just had to talk dumb shit to survive some days more. :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    If sheriff cleared you honestly I would take him out of my town core and put him as scum.

  22. ISO #2522

    Re: S-FM 316 : The Fooling Party

    Also saying that I'm "certain" that Renegade is town is stretching the argument to make it seem fabricated. I see a world where Renegade is town right now, especially after FrostByte's claim. I am very skeptical of why he didn't reveal he was blocked before today, because given that yzb did not claim openly in this game I think he may have been waiting to call it out as being fake. I don't think this is a good place to focus on today however when Martin and Helz are both likely to be triad and this game will end after lynching me if a successful kill goes off.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mesk514 View Post
    1-I really and truly believe @Unknown1234 is town. He stuck by me when I needed him
    Quote Originally Posted by Gyrlander View Post
    Wow, this game was really easy. I just had to talk dumb shit to survive some days more. :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    If sheriff cleared you honestly I would take him out of my town core and put him as scum.

  23. ISO #2523

    Re: S-FM 316 : The Fooling Party

    I'm not counting out naz either for not being triad, but I think it would be weird if town had no investigative roles and up to 4 protective roles. In terms of balance that would seem quite a stretch to believe.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mesk514 View Post
    1-I really and truly believe @Unknown1234 is town. He stuck by me when I needed him
    Quote Originally Posted by Gyrlander View Post
    Wow, this game was really easy. I just had to talk dumb shit to survive some days more. :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    If sheriff cleared you honestly I would take him out of my town core and put him as scum.

  24. ISO #2524

    Re: S-FM 316 : The Fooling Party

    Just because of drunken boredom and my friends being lame this is the notes I took this game for future guides:

    Scum hunting strategy- Limiting a POE while also attempting to identify scum .... Working it from both ends

    Occam's razor is your friend


    Playstyle diffrences causing TvT https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/vi...678176#p678176 MartinGG99
    Social categorization implications on mafia bias

    Scum tell- Only casting shade, not ever town clearing

    Clarify- so I can tear your argument appart please

    Push town reads against FoS of others to pocket

    Build a structure of levels of play and what they should understand:
    Any novice player should understand Roles, OoO, Voting structures and basic 'tells', RVS

    Any intermediate player should understand tracking player bias as scum, Basic strategy,

    Any Advanced player should work to understand Wagonomics, Mechanical hunting, Seeding, Tempo Control,

    Gambits:
    Change of subject to allow scum to avoid a conversation they are uncomfortable with

    Macro prosses of all potentials for mechanical solve program. combinatorics. Combine with sociometrics and macro meta crunching?

    Also spent a lot of time thinking about ontological concepts and the relation between who we think we are and basic things in life. Like.. If every few years every cell in our body dies and if in every few years all the physical matter in our bodys is replaced by new matter are we really the same living entity as we were a few years ago or are we just a Temporal supererogation with the illusion of being an entity? And if so is it fair for God to judge us at all considering at every point we are a separate entity? And what would that make God if we take the typical view adopted by Christians, Muslims, Jews, Catholics, and others if we consider our existence static but its actually dynamic?

    Oog that shit is whats been on my mind this game to right now and through this game
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  25. ISO #2525

    Re: S-FM 316 : The Fooling Party

    I hate that I feel like my posts are being skipped over because I make so many that people are deliberately not reading them because they don't want to be overwhelmed. Perhaps this is something I should consider in the future.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mesk514 View Post
    1-I really and truly believe @Unknown1234 is town. He stuck by me when I needed him
    Quote Originally Posted by Gyrlander View Post
    Wow, this game was really easy. I just had to talk dumb shit to survive some days more. :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    If sheriff cleared you honestly I would take him out of my town core and put him as scum.

  26. ISO #2526

    Re: S-FM 316 : The Fooling Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Unknown1234 View Post
    I hate that I feel like my posts are being skipped over because I make so many that people are deliberately not reading them because they don't want to be overwhelmed. Perhaps this is something I should consider in the future.
    Second time you said that

    I personally refuse to curve my play for others. Its pretty common for me to play games where a few people tell me I need to tone it down intellectually and in volume but I figure catering to what others want is a shit way to live.
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  27. ISO #2527

    Re: S-FM 316 : The Fooling Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    Second time you said that

    I personally refuse to curve my play for others. Its pretty common for me to play games where a few people tell me I need to tone it down intellectually and in volume but I figure catering to what others want is a shit way to live.
    That's pretty much the way I live most of my life. Most of the time I care more about pleasing my friends over my own needs. I know people will say that this is a bad and unhealthy way to live, but I think I would rather see other people happy than be happy myself.

    It does get frustrating though when I see something so clearly and other people can't understand what I'm saying or miss points that would help them understand. Maybe they do read it and don't answer, maybe they don't.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mesk514 View Post
    1-I really and truly believe @Unknown1234 is town. He stuck by me when I needed him
    Quote Originally Posted by Gyrlander View Post
    Wow, this game was really easy. I just had to talk dumb shit to survive some days more. :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    If sheriff cleared you honestly I would take him out of my town core and put him as scum.

  28. ISO #2528

    Re: S-FM 316 : The Fooling Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Unknown1234 View Post
    That's pretty much the way I live most of my life. Most of the time I care more about pleasing my friends over my own needs. I know people will say that this is a bad and unhealthy way to live, but I think I would rather see other people happy than be happy myself.

    It does get frustrating though when I see something so clearly and other people can't understand what I'm saying or miss points that would help them understand. Maybe they do read it and don't answer, maybe they don't.
    I don't think I want to get to talk too much about the psychological aspects in my life (or sociological or both I guess) but I think it probably does show in my play most of the time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mesk514 View Post
    1-I really and truly believe @Unknown1234 is town. He stuck by me when I needed him
    Quote Originally Posted by Gyrlander View Post
    Wow, this game was really easy. I just had to talk dumb shit to survive some days more. :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    If sheriff cleared you honestly I would take him out of my town core and put him as scum.

  29. ISO #2529

    Re: S-FM 316 : The Fooling Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Unknown1234 View Post
    I don't think I want to get to talk too much about the psychological aspects in my life (or sociological or both I guess) but I think it probably does show in my play most of the time.
    I personally think its only unhealthy when bad things happen to you and instead of assigning blame to others for being wrong you place it on yourself to excuse their behavior.

    But yeah, Conversation for another day
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  30. ISO #2530

    Re: S-FM 316 : The Fooling Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    I personally think its only unhealthy when bad things happen to you and instead of assigning blame to others for being wrong you place it on yourself to excuse their behavior.

    But yeah, Conversation for another day
    I don't think I'd ever want to live life blaming myself for other people's actions or decisions, but there comes a point in time where I feel like holding grudges against people for doing shitty stuff to me becomes taxing. I'd rather just move on and let them make choices on how they want to live, because at the end of the day I don't have much influence on what they do.

    Just wanted to add that last part, I don't think I have anything else to add without going too deep into it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mesk514 View Post
    1-I really and truly believe @Unknown1234 is town. He stuck by me when I needed him
    Quote Originally Posted by Gyrlander View Post
    Wow, this game was really easy. I just had to talk dumb shit to survive some days more. :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    If sheriff cleared you honestly I would take him out of my town core and put him as scum.

  31. ISO #2531

    Re: S-FM 316 : The Fooling Party

    Quote Originally Posted by MattZed View Post
    ASSUMPTIONS:
    1. Town is always telling the truth
    This is an interesting mini-thought experiment though

    Technically speaking, nobody but Renegade knows who he locked between me & Frinckles

    Now I don't think its plausible, but its hypothetically possible that Renegade locked my house and is lying about it so MattZed isn't suspected as DH.

    But that's a disproven thought since, y'know, MattZed is the confirmed civilian.
    A.K.A "That One Idiot"

  32. ISO #2532

    Re: S-FM 316 : The Fooling Party

    Quote Originally Posted by MattZed View Post
    I don't think there's anything especially brilliant to this conclusion...

    Frinckles and I are town. If you+Unknown are town, there is ONE town left. It cannot be Naz: she saw FB visit a person who didn't die, which means FB isn't DH or CA. But he can't be the random Triad either because we're out of TPRs, meaning Renegade would be the Random Triad. Thus, Naz isn't the last town.

    If Naz isn't the last town, then Naz is scum, specifically the random triad. This means Renegade can't be the random triad, so Renegade is town. Thus we've found the living town as Frinckles+me+you+Unknown+Renegade, leaving the other three as triad. From Naz's claimed night actions, we can infer what she saw.
    Mmm

    I think we should play Follow the Matt > Follow the Frinckles.

    Some of your Martin theory is a bit of a big pill to swallow but your deductive analysis is very clean imo.
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  33. ISO #2533

    Re: S-FM 316 : The Fooling Party

    I think today should be based more on genuine scumhunting, but let me explain how we *could* yeet Unknown for information:

    1. If he flips DH, it's 5v2 but I can't say that much more
    2. If he flips CA, then Martin is scum and it's almost impossible to lose
    3. If he flips any other triad, Martin is DH and Helz is CA; gg.
    4. If he flips Butler, Martin is DH but we're kind of in trouble
    5. If he's bound to Triad, then we're 5v2 and probably doing pretty hot
    6. If he's bound to town, then we desperately need our TPRs to save us
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrow View Post
    What. You got me. Stop unvoting and stretch my neck, dammit.

  34. ISO #2534

    Re: S-FM 316 : The Fooling Party

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    This is an interesting mini-thought experiment though

    Technically speaking, nobody but Renegade knows who he locked between me & Frinckles

    Now I don't think its plausible, but its hypothetically possible that Renegade locked my house and is lying about it so MattZed isn't suspected as DH.

    But that's a disproven thought since, y'know, MattZed is the confirmed civilian.
    I don't know how you haven't gotten the memo that DW couldn't have witched me because he became Switcher that night, canceling his night action.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrow View Post
    What. You got me. Stop unvoting and stretch my neck, dammit.

  35. ISO #2535

    Re: S-FM 316 : The Fooling Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Unknown1234 View Post
    I hate that I feel like my posts are being skipped over because I make so many that people are deliberately not reading them because they don't want to be overwhelmed. Perhaps this is something I should consider in the future.
    stop typing long ones luv <3

    in all seriousness ill read everything tomorrow im skimming tonight

    i rly want for us to aim for dragonhead today so i need time to mull over
    Quote Originally Posted by yzb25 View Post
    President Fielzanks walks up to his stage, preparing his n1 speech. In front of him, his two cronies MM and David stood. In front of him, his immaculately written n1 speech was prepared. 'Gentleman, what is the soul of capitalism?', he asked his small audience. 'Money?', MM guessed. 'Waifus?', David asked. 'No' Fielz replied, disappointed in his trash scumteam .
    Quote Originally Posted by aamirus View Post
    Naz would never forget the Chik-Fil-A Sauce

  36. ISO #2536

    Re: S-FM 316 : The Fooling Party

    Quote Originally Posted by naz View Post
    stop typing long ones luv <3

    in all seriousness ill read everything tomorrow im skimming tonight

    i rly want for us to aim for dragonhead today so i need time to mull over
    You could also stop running into the killer every time we play, but here we are... ;)
    Quote Originally Posted by Mesk514 View Post
    1-I really and truly believe @Unknown1234 is town. He stuck by me when I needed him
    Quote Originally Posted by Gyrlander View Post
    Wow, this game was really easy. I just had to talk dumb shit to survive some days more. :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    If sheriff cleared you honestly I would take him out of my town core and put him as scum.

  37. ISO #2537

    Re: S-FM 316 : The Fooling Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    Mmm

    I think we should play Follow the Matt > Follow the Frinckles.

    Some of your Martin theory is a bit of a big pill to swallow but your deductive analysis is very clean imo.
    You do realize that I've said your only possible triad role is CA unless triad is you+Martin+Unknown, right? I have to be deeply paranoid about anyone you suggest to yeet. <_<

    That said, I intend to narrow down my opinion on Martin vs. Unknown by at least skimming all of their posts again. (won't be able to do ISOs with post summaries, but at least a look with "does this sound like a DH talking, or their claimed town role?")
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrow View Post
    What. You got me. Stop unvoting and stretch my neck, dammit.

  38. ISO #2538

    Re: S-FM 316 : The Fooling Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Unknown1234 View Post
    @MattZed @Frinckles @Renegade @FrostByte @Helz @naz

    I don't care how likely it is that Martin is town and that I am DH. Voting me is a likely loss if FrostByte or Renegade aren't town and I want you all to believe that I am Butler for at least a minute and see that everything I've done in this game is coming from that. I fully intend to break through Martin's posts to prove why he is DH but that will take more time and will be done afterwards (likely later in the day as I still feel sick and will probably want to nap again).



    First post was made to show a connection between me and yzb.



    Me commenting on yzb's first post. If nothing else it was to see and hope he might pick up on something through our interactions at some point.



    Once again trying to show some sort of overly friendliness to yzb in hopes he would catch on.



    This is in response to Frinckles suggesting he could be triad after saying the game should be called.



    This is me wanting to know where Oberon's thoughts were while trying to steer conversation away from yzb because I knew he was town.



    This is my read on him at the start of day 2 where I am trying to prove that he is town more than reading him as town (the only read where I point out specific posts and link them).





    These two are both of me voicing my thoughts towards yzb.



    My reads list that now drops yzb to the most towny slot.



    I made it very clear several times my connection with Yzb but made sure never to drop a hint that I could be butler (unless you read a lot into our interactions like Helz(?) potentially may have). Making it as far as I could have with yzb still being alive makes the game that much easier to solve and it worked almost as good as it could have until situations happening today.

    I think this is going to be a huge lesson for me on not confirming peoples roles one way or another based simply on the likeliness of their roles exisiting and reading into emotions based on claims. I kinda wish in hindsight I had spent less time simply believing that Martin was town because of his role-claim and actually spent more time deciding if that made sense or not.
    @MattZed

    feel free to start here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mesk514 View Post
    1-I really and truly believe @Unknown1234 is town. He stuck by me when I needed him
    Quote Originally Posted by Gyrlander View Post
    Wow, this game was really easy. I just had to talk dumb shit to survive some days more. :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    If sheriff cleared you honestly I would take him out of my town core and put him as scum.

  39. ISO #2539

    Re: S-FM 316 : The Fooling Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Unknown1234 View Post
    I hate that I feel like my posts are being skipped over because I make so many that people are deliberately not reading them because they don't want to be overwhelmed. Perhaps this is something I should consider in the future.
    If it means anything to you, once the butler claims came up and their seeming contradiction, I tried to avoid evaluating on effort because both you and Helz appeared to do really well on effort posting. And that's partially why I avoided posts against each other from each other on that matter, for me personally its just better to look at each other indivdually if both possible suspects are effort posters; it may be too easy to accidentally get nit-picky on one side or the other and start getting a wrong idea.

    Ironically, I got the wrong idea of Helz being scum anyways lol

    I did read your ISO's and posts on Naz in the past and I often thought they were very valuable and informative; they help clarified for me that I wasn't just feeling negativity towards their alignment just because of playstyle differences. I just didn't have anything to comment on it (or at least I didn't think of any comment or question or etc at the time).....

    Maybe I should comment more often on my town reads because I don't really do that often :/
    A.K.A "That One Idiot"

  40. ISO #2540

    Re: S-FM 316 : The Fooling Party

    Unknown, you are my friend. I will read your posts before deciding to mercilessly toss you out of the party, rest assured.

    Take care of yourself and then make a case on Martin IRL tomorrow like this game depends on it... because it does.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arrow View Post
    What. You got me. Stop unvoting and stretch my neck, dammit.

  41. ISO #2541

    Re: S-FM 316 : The Fooling Party

    Frinky, Renegade, FrostByte and naz all seem reluctant to join in on any of the conversation happening. Atleast naz said she will catch up with the game, but I find it hard to imagine that this doesn't end up in mislynching me if people don't pop up and talk. Also gives scum an easy out on not having to throw any opinions in the discussion and basically letting MattZed narrate the game.

    Good luck MattZed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mesk514 View Post
    1-I really and truly believe @Unknown1234 is town. He stuck by me when I needed him
    Quote Originally Posted by Gyrlander View Post
    Wow, this game was really easy. I just had to talk dumb shit to survive some days more. :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    If sheriff cleared you honestly I would take him out of my town core and put him as scum.

  42. ISO #2542

    Re: S-FM 316 : The Fooling Party

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinGG99 View Post
    If it means anything to you, once the butler claims came up and their seeming contradiction, I tried to avoid evaluating on effort because both you and Helz appeared to do really well on effort posting. And that's partially why I avoided posts against each other from each other on that matter, for me personally its just better to look at each other indivdually if both possible suspects are effort posters; it may be too easy to accidentally get nit-picky on one side or the other and start getting a wrong idea.

    Ironically, I got the wrong idea of Helz being scum anyways lol

    I did read your ISO's and posts on Naz in the past and I often thought they were very valuable and informative; they help clarified for me that I wasn't just feeling negativity towards their alignment just because of playstyle differences. I just didn't have anything to comment on it (or at least I didn't think of any comment or question or etc at the time).....

    Maybe I should comment more often on my town reads because I don't really do that often :/
    Also the feeling of being interacted with or not being interacted with and associated topics within Mafia has been a bit of interest to me lately.

    In the MU championships finale for this year's season 7, one of the players felt severely ignored in that game up until around Day 6 (I think; I didn't read the whole game) where they were finally listened to and a player got correctly eliminated as mafia.

    For them, that game was a rather terrible experience.

    And I've been wondering if there's some way to make Forum Mafia a better experience for people, or at least practices that would help reduce that kind of effect or occurrence of said social situation.
    A.K.A "That One Idiot"

  43. ISO #2543

    Re: S-FM 316 : The Fooling Party

    Quote Originally Posted by MattZed View Post
    Unknown, you are my friend. I will read your posts before deciding to mercilessly toss you out of the party, rest assured.

    Take care of yourself and then make a case on Martin IRL tomorrow like this game depends on it... because it does.

    I would seriously consider holding off on voting me because town has seemed to not have problems voting early and I don't want scum to take advantage of this. In my mind I'm only voting Martin because it seems the only realistic way he isn't triad is speculating about a sniper kill n2 and a role that isn't confirmed in the setup.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mesk514 View Post
    1-I really and truly believe @Unknown1234 is town. He stuck by me when I needed him
    Quote Originally Posted by Gyrlander View Post
    Wow, this game was really easy. I just had to talk dumb shit to survive some days more. :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    If sheriff cleared you honestly I would take him out of my town core and put him as scum.

  44. ISO #2544

    Re: S-FM 316 : The Fooling Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Unknown1234 View Post
    Frinky, Renegade, FrostByte and naz all seem reluctant to join in on any of the conversation happening. Atleast naz said she will catch up with the game, but I find it hard to imagine that this doesn't end up in mislynching me if people don't pop up and talk. Also gives scum an easy out on not having to throw any opinions in the discussion and basically letting MattZed narrate the game.

    Good luck MattZed.
    Here's an opinion.

    The evidence is stacked against you because of the Zeb flip. Shopkeeper blocks before bus, and so Helz was bussed.

  45. ISO #2545

  46. ISO #2546

  47. ISO #2547

    Re: S-FM 316 : The Fooling Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    @Unknown1234 who do you propose is lunch?
    Martin is guaranteed DH in my eyes because everyone else has been confirmed another role (not alignment) or had some way of clearing them from being DH. Sadly I basically gave him a free pass after day 1 when I thought his reactionary counter-claim was genuine as a Bus Driver. I haven't begun a re-read on him yet because I find my mind wavering away from reading too much and have been sitting at the screen just waiting. Hoping I'll feel better soon, but as of right now Martin or me are the only lynches optional at this point.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mesk514 View Post
    1-I really and truly believe @Unknown1234 is town. He stuck by me when I needed him
    Quote Originally Posted by Gyrlander View Post
    Wow, this game was really easy. I just had to talk dumb shit to survive some days more. :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    If sheriff cleared you honestly I would take him out of my town core and put him as scum.

  48. ISO #2548

    Re: S-FM 316 : The Fooling Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    Here's an opinion.

    The evidence is stacked against you because of the Zeb flip. Shopkeeper blocks before bus, and so Helz was bussed.
    I agree and I probably would lynch myself if I was in someone else's shoes. I have spent very little time analyzing his play, and it's hit me as a shock to have my biggest town-read suddenly being the only option for DH. Very similar way when Helz was claiming my role, but I guess that's a sign I need to improve on reading players.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mesk514 View Post
    1-I really and truly believe @Unknown1234 is town. He stuck by me when I needed him
    Quote Originally Posted by Gyrlander View Post
    Wow, this game was really easy. I just had to talk dumb shit to survive some days more. :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    If sheriff cleared you honestly I would take him out of my town core and put him as scum.

  49. ISO #2549

    Re: S-FM 316 : The Fooling Party

    I would suggest that no-lynching is almost a good idea for anyone that believes Martin is bus driver.

    Although now that I think about it that would rely on naz being confirmed detective and not spy. Worth a thought I guess.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mesk514 View Post
    1-I really and truly believe @Unknown1234 is town. He stuck by me when I needed him
    Quote Originally Posted by Gyrlander View Post
    Wow, this game was really easy. I just had to talk dumb shit to survive some days more. :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    If sheriff cleared you honestly I would take him out of my town core and put him as scum.

  50. ISO #2550

    Re: S-FM 316 : The Fooling Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Unknown1234 View Post
    I would suggest that no-lynching is almost a good idea for anyone that believes Martin is bus driver.

    Although now that I think about it that would rely on naz being confirmed detective and not spy. Worth a thought I guess.
    Now that is something I have not considered.

    What would town gain from a no-lynch decision?
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

 

 

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