S-FM 338: Deck Mafia #008

[DoctorZeus]

Making this man's life even harder with that. Tapatalk never works out for me.

Totally

Couldn't log on "network error"

[Loldebite]

Does this mean you disliked every single start of game you played in (except for last one)? :P

Also Martin, why you feel like this was something to bring up?

This means i disliked MY start of every single game i played in. Or that i dislike myself for these. Anyway, you should get the idea, now. If you still don't, then whatever... Pretty sure this is very irrelevant anyway.

[MartinGG99]

I assume Dedtiny Master is a powerful card.

I have a group of 6-star cards that I got from the Treasure Hunt event which ended like a month ago

That is one of them, which duplicates a target's action to be done onto themselves. (So Player A killing Player B would also be forced to kill themselves if they used a killing action/card in the same night)

Basically all the other ones that I found screw via redirections or investigation results in various ways, though I can only bring one out of that group since they're 6-star rarity.

[deathworlds]

Making this man's life even harder with that. Tapatalk never works out for me.

Worth a shot ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[deathworlds]

I have a group of 6-star cards that I got from the Treasure Hunt event which ended like a month ago

That is one of them, which duplicates a target's action to be done onto themselves. (So Player A killing Player B would also be forced to kill themselves if they used a killing action/card in the same night)

Basically all the other ones that I found screw via redirections or investigation results in various ways, though I can only bring one out of that group since they're 6-star rarity.

Martin, how are you?
It's been years my friend!

[MartinGG99]

Martin, how are you?
It's been years my friend!

lmao

[Mesk514]

@Loldebite , town lock with me... let's go

[MartinGG99]

Marshmallow Marshall (1 [L-98]):
NotPaopan
PQRnHack (2 [L-97]):
Seanzie, DoctorZeus
Marshmallow Marshalt (1 [L-98]):
Mesk514
NotPaopan (2 [L-97]):
Gikkle, deathworlds
Stealthbomber16 (1 [L-98]):
Marshmallow Marshalt
Gikkle (1 [L-98]):
Takumi Fujiwara

meh why not

-vote NotPaopan

deathworlds made me laugh so I'll go with this slot

[Loldebite]

Any deck mafia vets here? Not sure what I should be expecting this game

All i understood is that not knowing what to expect really is at the core of the concept.

[hollowkatt]

Come at me!!!!

I struggle so much with new sites

Things like learning iso hard. Also not loving dark mode.

Gl with house work. We've been drinking and eating all day so my play will be poor.

yeah dark mode in dark room wreaking havoc on my eyes. just new forum things I guess.
House work is on break, we need our spotter back but she's taking the trash out.

Why do you want me to come at you?

[Takumi Fujiwara]

Marshmallow Marshall (1 [L-98]):
NotPaopan
PQRnHack (2 [L-97]):
Seanzie, DoctorZeus
Marshmallow Marshalt (1 [L-98]):
Mesk514
NotPaopan (2 [L-97]):
Gikkle, deathworlds
Stealthbomber16 (1 [L-98]):
Marshmallow Marshalt
Gikkle (1 [L-98]):
Takumi Fujiwara

meh why not

-vote NotPaopan

deathworlds made me laugh so I'll go with this slot

Martin that seems like a weird vote from you so sheerly off of that I'm guessing it's a throwaway vote.

[DoctorZeus]

yeah dark mode in dark room wreaking havoc on my eyes. just new forum things I guess.
House work is on break, we need our spotter back but she's taking the trash out.

Why do you want me to come at you?

Bored really

[hollowkatt]

I dont like how your defence of him was done by implying seanzie is wolf

Wolfy to me.

If I'm right on these two I'll look forward to my mvp card

as in you town read senzie?

[deathworlds]

no hammers

[MartinGG99]

I prefer the darkmode but under general settings you can find a much more lighter PC version

under "general settings" and in the drop-down for forum skin pick "vBulletin Default"

[Takumi Fujiwara]

Bored really

If you're on android using chrome the way I refresh the page quickly is by clicking the url and then the link right under it is usually the page I'm on. It will refresh and place you on the same page at the part you were looking at.

[Takumi Fujiwara]

All i understood is that not knowing what to expect really is at the core of the concept.

There's some players here whose playstyles might really benefit from that.

[Loldebite]

@Loldebite , town lock with me... let's go

This is a very tempting offer that i sincerely wish i could reciprocate... I don't think i've recovered yet from my latest throw, if you're saying this knowingly this is very mean

Anyone saying they dislike dark theme is scum.

[Loldebite]

I still think that Paopan is best dead for town regardless of his alignment, so i'm always fine with him being a train on D1.

[Loldebite]

I mean, I was in essence wondering why Loldebite brought it up.

Quite a stupid reason : I felt I needed to say more than just "Hello"...

I mean, loldebite just dips for a bit after making it to SoD and mentioning making it to SoD (implying some level of importance).

So I wondered what SoD meant to him because it seemed a bit at odd with the content of his entrance that he seemingly disappeared for a bit while everyone else there at the time was posting. I asked him about it to find out why he brought it up.

Now you're wondering why I (Martin) brought up my question about loldebite's entrance.

Seems to me you and I are roughly doing the same thought process so like.....why ask me why I brought it up lol

Well, shit, this has blown out of proportion

PS: this is like the 5th time i'm trying to post this

[Takumi Fujiwara]

I still think that Paopan is best dead for town regardless of his alignment, so i'm always fine with him being a train on D1.

First post in the game + an eye melting reads list gives him a pass from me for today.

[Boba Fett]

Hypeeeeeee!!!!!!

[Boba Fett]

Oh shit finally I fixed it. Thanks to whoever told us how to edit avatar. I had same issue as sean

[deathworlds]

Oh shit finally I fixed it. Thanks to whoever told us how to edit avatar. I had same issue as sean

You should do some RVS or join a train

[PQRnHack]

Come at me!!!!

I struggle so much with new sites

Things like learning iso hard. Also not loving dark mode.

Gl with house work. We've been drinking and eating all day so my play will be poor.

In account settings, you can modify Forum Skin setting to vBulletin Default.

[PQRnHack]

You are a wolf though

Sounds like something a wolf would say!

[PQRnHack]

He might be. But I've done similar things that look utterly scummy on page one in previous games as town.

Plus, I like my Gikkle vote.

Wait, what's scummy about my page 1?

[PQRnHack]

I dont like how your defence of him was done by implying seanzie is wolf

Wolfy to me.

If I'm right on these two I'll look forward to my mvp card

No card for you!

[PQRnHack]

Like, Martin knows some of my cards.

He can ask if I brought them.

I can say no.

For example, I can ask if Martin brought Dedtiny Master.

He can respond.

I'd advise checking the discord and looking at public cards, and, the rules on which 3ps exist

Am I allowed to ask what Destiny Master does?

So we know that 3P is one of the 11 roles I saw listed on Discord: a couple versions of SK, moon wolf, etc. But how does that relate to cards (or does it?)? They could have brought in cards like sheriff/doc then got randomed to the 3P slot, right? I did see there are some restrictions on some roles, like must play only 3-star cards or limited to 1 card, or cannot use certain cards. Does that mean the disallowed cards would have been excluded by Host after the person got assigned the 3P role?

[PQRnHack]

I still think that Paopan is best dead for town regardless of his alignment, so i'm always fine with him being a train on D1.

Mmmm this may be a valid point, although I dislike voting a player just because of their playstyle or lack of skill or dedication when they're town. But maybe I need to reconsider my fairness to such players (which may include myself lol), as a couple games ago I didn't want to vote off Pao "just because he is Pao" and was as silly as always. And he turned out to be scum in the end lol, managed to get away by using his typical crazy+lazy style.

[Takumi Fujiwara]

Wait, what's scummy about my page 1?

Your interaction with Seanzie. But not enough to make me want to vote you.

[hollowkatt]

If you're on android using chrome the way I refresh the page quickly is by clicking the url and then the link right under it is usually the page I'm on. It will refresh and place you on the same page at the part you were looking at.

I like to click the post number I'm currently reading to refresh the thread without losing my place.

[hollowkatt]

I still think that Paopan is best dead for town regardless of his alignment, so i'm always fine with him being a train on D1.

so a policy chop. can you explain why?

[PQRnHack]

Your interaction with Seanzie. But not enough to make me want to vote you.

And what was scummy about my interaction, exactly?

[hollowkatt]

Am I allowed to ask what Destiny Master does?

So we know that 3P is one of the 11 roles I saw listed on Discord: a couple versions of SK, moon wolf, etc. But how does that relate to cards (or does it?)? They could have brought in cards like sheriff/doc then got randomed to the 3P slot, right? I did see there are some restrictions on some roles, like must play only 3-star cards or limited to 1 card, or cannot use certain cards. Does that mean the disallowed cards would have been excluded by Host after the person got assigned the 3P role?

in the last deck mafia game on mafia universe I brought a town use only card and randed wolf. My town use only card was "deleted" from my brought cards by Guillo prior to the game starting. So yeah, if you bring a card that is subsequently disallowed by the host via your rand that card is removed from your in-game inventory.

[Takumi Fujiwara]

And what was scummy about my interaction, exactly?

Trying to remove yourself from the PoE in your first post would be noteworthy. Also, you used smiley faces at least three different times and I take smiley faces very seriously.

[PQRnHack]

So I am new to this ITA (in-thread-attack) mechanic. Is my math right on this? Each of 15 players may shoot once every day with a 20% chance to succeed (this probability can further go up per Host Card in post #1). So if all 15 players performed an ITA shot day 1, we would expect around 3 attacked persons (and they may or may not survive the attack depending on what abilities they have or received). Given the random (think RVS) nature of D1, it does not seem like a good idea for town to randomly shoot, plus unless we have solid scum reads (less likely in early game), odds would be that we are shooting one of the other 10 town as opposed to the 3 maf or 1 neutral/3P. And the scum are probably more likely to have some form of immunity or vest than town.

Scum may want to shoot townies(+3P), but since shot actions are posted to the thread, that will generate suspicion.

Did I get all of that right? I am assuming there are experienced Deck Mafia players here who have played with ITA before.

Would all fired shots go through (and go thru 20% RNG) or would the people terminated by these ITA shots be "retroactively" unable to fire (cuz ded) so the order of the ITA shot submission to the thread plays a role? The weird twist with that is if Host is away for some hours, then multiple players might issue ITA attacks on one another (and in various orders/at various times) prior to finding out if they themselves might already be dead or not (if aimed at by someone else before their own submission of a shot, but host not having yet processed the submission or the 20% RNG)?

[Loldebite]

so a policy chop. can you explain why?

IMO he's 50% fluff and 50% BS gut reads. But then again maybe he fooled me that bad ?

[PQRnHack]

in the last deck mafia game on mafia universe I brought a town use only card and randed wolf. My town use only card was "deleted" from my brought cards by Guillo prior to the game starting. So yeah, if you bring a card that is subsequently disallowed by the host via your rand that card is removed from your in-game inventory.

Got it, thanks! From your past experience with Deck Mafia, how often can an alignment be deduced from what becomes known (or speculated) about the person's cards? I assume in your game where you were wolf, you had to either pretend to be vanilla or made up some fake cards/actions that were not in the game.

[PQRnHack]

Trying to remove yourself from the PoE in your first post would be noteworthy. Also, you used smiley faces at least three different times and I take smiley faces very seriously.

That is quite silly. Seanzies opened with the empty comment about 14 players in PoE. I replied to it with an equally-empty comment that I should be excluded

[PQRnHack]

IMO he's 50% fluff and 50% BS gut reads. But then again maybe he fooled me that bad ?

Are you describing me or Paopan? :P

Well, I feel like he employs that style so that his games are always NAI, and that fooled me last game I had with him in which he was scum and I was town. I couldnt get a read on him, but then there were mechanics thrown in with a certain other player in our current game that shall remain unnamed throwing out false mech info as a Town, which in my eyes confirmed Paopan as Town to me and that was wrong.

[Loldebite]

Mmmm this may be a valid point, although I dislike voting a player just because of their playstyle or lack of skill or dedication when they're town. But maybe I need to reconsider my fairness to such players (which may include myself lol), as a couple games ago I didn't want to vote off Pao "just because he is Pao" and was as silly as always. And he turned out to be scum in the end lol, managed to get away by using his typical crazy+lazy style.

Not sure how i feel about that comment. You got me thinking, there.

[Loldebite]

Are you describing me or Paopan? :P

Well, I feel like he employs that style so that his games are always NAI, and that fooled me last game I had with him in which he was scum and I was town. I couldnt get a read on him, but then there were mechanics thrown in with a certain other player in our current game that shall remain unnamed throwing out false mech info as a Town, which in my eyes confirmed Paopan as Town to me and that was wrong.

Mostly paopan. You'd be 33% fluff, 33% spam, 20% BS gut reads and 13% sense. So you're less worse than Paopan i'd say.

[MartinGG99]

So I am new to this ITA (in-thread-attack) mechanic. Is my math right on this? Each of 15 players may shoot once every day with a 20% chance to succeed (this probability can further go up per Host Card in post #1). So if all 15 players performed an ITA shot day 1, we would expect around 3 attacked persons (and they may or may not survive the attack depending on what abilities they have or received). Given the random (think RVS) nature of D1, it does not seem like a good idea for town to randomly shoot, plus unless we have solid scum reads (less likely in early game), odds would be that we are shooting one of the other 10 town as opposed to the 3 maf or 1 neutral/3P. And the scum are probably more likely to have some form of immunity or vest than town.

Scum may want to shoot townies(+3P), but since shot actions are posted to the thread, that will generate suspicion.

Did I get all of that right? I am assuming there are experienced Deck Mafia players here who have played with ITA before.

Would all fired shots go through (and go thru 20% RNG) or would the people terminated by these ITA shots be "retroactively" unable to fire (cuz ded) so the order of the ITA shot submission to the thread plays a role? The weird twist with that is if Host is away for some hours, then multiple players might issue ITA attacks on one another (and in various orders/at various times) prior to finding out if they themselves might already be dead or not (if aimed at by someone else before their own submission of a shot, but host not having yet processed the submission or the 20% RNG)?

generally speaking when ITA's (in-thread-attacks) are available I haven't really heard an argument/theory saying to not shoot

simply because if everyone shoots it is then guaranteed the majority of those shots are not ill-willed

the real rub is if and when do people coordinate shots into PoE or consensus suspects because if a wolf is coordinating the shots then well it probably wont hit any wolves but if the shots aren't coordinated we may not get around to effectively solving the game

now as to whether dead people's shots count I have no freaking clue and it probably depends on the host running the ITA mechanic; you should probably ask Guilo yourself

If you get an answer from Guilo about that though don't mention that your information is comming from him or......

[hollowkatt]

So I am new to this ITA (in-thread-attack) mechanic. Is my math right on this? Each of 15 players may shoot once every day with a 20% chance to succeed (this probability can further go up per Host Card in post #1). So if all 15 players performed an ITA shot day 1, we would expect around 3 attacked persons (and they may or may not survive the attack depending on what abilities they have or received). Given the random (think RVS) nature of D1, it does not seem like a good idea for town to randomly shoot, plus unless we have solid scum reads (less likely in early game), odds would be that we are shooting one of the other 10 town as opposed to the 3 maf or 1 neutral/3P. And the scum are probably more likely to have some form of immunity or vest than town.

Scum may want to shoot townies(+3P), but since shot actions are posted to the thread, that will generate suspicion.

Did I get all of that right? I am assuming there are experienced Deck Mafia players here who have played with ITA before.

Would all fired shots go through (and go thru 20% RNG) or would the people terminated by these ITA shots be "retroactively" unable to fire (cuz ded) so the order of the ITA shot submission to the thread plays a role? The weird twist with that is if Host is away for some hours, then multiple players might issue ITA attacks on one another (and in various orders/at various times) prior to finding out if they themselves might already be dead or not (if aimed at by someone else before their own submission of a shot, but host not having yet processed the submission or the 20% RNG)?

counterpoint: shots are fun

[hollowkatt]

IMO he's 50% fluff and 50% BS gut reads. But then again maybe he fooled me that bad ?

that seems like an incredibad reason to policy someone. BS gut reads aren't necessarily bad yeah?
like if you'd said he's a troll and doesn't play well to his randed alignment then sure, policy is fine and probably desired, but "he's fluffy and his reads are gut" is like half the known mafia playing universe

[hollowkatt]

Got it, thanks! From your past experience with Deck Mafia, how often can an alignment be deduced from what becomes known (or speculated) about the person's cards? I assume in your game where you were wolf, you had to either pretend to be vanilla or made up some fake cards/actions that were not in the game.

I brought some neutral (doesn't matter your alignment) cards as well so it wasn't like I went all in on randing town.
generally speaking alignment is more deduced with how the player used the cards or what happened as a result of the use more than just "what did they bring".

I would have, if questioned, lied about what I brought but it never really got that far as I died N2.

[PQRnHack]

Not sure how i feel about that comment. You got me thinking, there.

No worries, I already got 2 votes on me, join in!

Point is there is some emotional attachment for me here (hence my statement about being "fair"): I am not a strong player, neither is Paopan (compared to some others, at least), think of us as LHF for a moment. So how can I ethically justify voting Paopan solely on the presumption that he will not be helpful to town (which is, admittedly, a fair assumption based on past games), when similar arguments could be made about me? Should I vote myself?? lol

Why should one LHF(me) vote another LHF(Pao) solely because because they are LHF or not as strong as other players? Unless there is better information to indicate that Paopan is scummy (which I am sure there will NOT be from Pao D1), I do not want to vote him as I find it unethical (personal opinion). In the PoliticoII game that you were also in, same dilemma came up and I was defensive of Paopan when people wanted to lynch him for reasons that I disagree with (Pao being wild as usual, doing things like voting players that were already dead), some suggested he and I were scum together as a result. My rhetoric that game was that we would need to resolve Paopan later in the game, and as it turns out, we could have won by doing just that (as Town) if we had accurate mech info and thus realized that Paopan was scum, but town did some fake mech gambits that fired back, resulting in a loss. But to say that we should have voted off Paopan early because it's Paopan (50% BS, 50% gut, to use your terms) would be "resulting". There is nothing so far (and I am sure there will not be) in Pao's D1 to be a town-tell or a scum-tell.

This is one reason I prefer anonymous games, at least one might feel better about voting off a "slot" (rather than the "player") based on their "play" in that game and not based on past game experiences. E.g., should we justify voting off a person merely because they lost 75% (made-up number for example purposes) of their historical games? I think not.

[PQRnHack]

Mostly paopan. You'd be 33% fluff, 33% spam, 20% BS gut reads and 13% sense. So you're less worse than Paopan i'd say.

Aww, you are so charming!

[Seanzie]

So I am new to this ITA (in-thread-attack) mechanic. Is my math right on this? Each of 15 players may shoot once every day with a 20% chance to succeed (this probability can further go up per Host Card in post #1). So if all 15 players performed an ITA shot day 1, we would expect around 3 attacked persons (and they may or may not survive the attack depending on what abilities they have or received). Given the random (think RVS) nature of D1, it does not seem like a good idea for town to randomly shoot, plus unless we have solid scum reads (less likely in early game), odds would be that we are shooting one of the other 10 town as opposed to the 3 maf or 1 neutral/3P. And the scum are probably more likely to have some form of immunity or vest than town.

Scum may want to shoot townies(+3P), but since shot actions are posted to the thread, that will generate suspicion.

Did I get all of that right? I am assuming there are experienced Deck Mafia players here who have played with ITA before.

Would all fired shots go through (and go thru 20% RNG) or would the people terminated by these ITA shots be "retroactively" unable to fire (cuz ded) so the order of the ITA shot submission to the thread plays a role? The weird twist with that is if Host is away for some hours, then multiple players might issue ITA attacks on one another (and in various orders/at various times) prior to finding out if they themselves might already be dead or not (if aimed at by someone else before their own submission of a shot, but host not having yet processed the submission or the 20% RNG)?

I've also never seen ITAs, but I think it would be a bad idea to pass up 2.2 expected town-controlled kills.

However, thinking about it, there are ways we can probably direct these kills. One proposal:

We set a fake "deadline" at the time that ITAs become available. Whomever has the most votes at the end of that deadline, we have people in the thread shoot them until they die. Then we set another fake "deadline" for a second vote, say at 4 hours left in the day. Then again after that "deadline" whomever is the leading vote, we shoot them until they die.

Assuming people are around to use their ITAs, this will likely give us two extra TKs today, with time to evaluate flips between these rounds of shots.

-------------------------------------------

Personally I think the above plan is major +EV for town. If people have other ideas, I'd prefer we discuss them relatively quickly, try to come to a consensus, then get everyone (or almost everyone) to commit to a joint plan.