S-FM 316 : The Fooling Party

[Unknown1234]

Never compare my play to Oberon's D1, thanks.

I stand by my day 1 comments about you. You have been incredibly scummy this game, and without your role claim and night actions that DM has basically confirmed I would probably be pushing for your lynch right now.

[MattZed]

*posts 155 times*

don't mind me, just undermining your discussion.

If you're town, stop your gaslighting.

You seem to have decided it's helpful for you to discredit me. If you're town, you either think I'm scum trying to get you yeeted, or mislead town barking up the wrong tree. In the first case, why in the world aren't you trying to make a case on me? In the second case, why aren't you actually just answering my questions so we can move on.

This all feels straight out of the book on how to be non-passive scum: You don't try to pretend you're town, you actively try to mislead town. Distract the conversation, support misyeets, discredit everyone else and try to lead the town.

To everyone else:
I hard scumread Frinckles

[Frinckles]

I stand by my day 1 comments about you. You have been incredibly scummy this game, and without your role claim and night actions that DM has basically confirmed I would probably be pushing for your lynch right now.

My playstyle is a good way to stay alive.

[MattZed]

My playstyle is a good way to stay alive.

... please tell me I'm not the only one bothered by this post.

[MattZed]

FWIW, Dark Magician hasn't posted in a while and I'm still waiting for his response. Him being gone at this particular moment is NAI. (him being gone for more than 24 hours at a time, or coming back and not addressing the many questions toward him, however, would indicate scum)

[MattZed]

@FrostByte , we've been on the same page a lot. Do you see Frinckles as scum? If yes plz vote him to no higher than L-2.

[Frinckles]

If you're town, stop your gaslighting.

You seem to have decided it's helpful for you to discredit me. If you're town, you either think I'm scum trying to get you yeeted, or mislead town barking up the wrong tree. In the first case, why in the world aren't you trying to make a case on me? In the second case, why aren't you actually just answering my questions so we can move on.

This all feels straight out of the book on how to be non-passive scum: You don't try to pretend you're town, you actively try to mislead town. Distract the conversation, support misyeets, discredit everyone else and try to lead the town.

To everyone else:
I hard scumread Frinckles

Okay give me your questions and I'll answer them.

And for the record, I do think you're town.

[MattZed]

@MartinGG99 , thanks for linking to saying you swapped Frinckles and yourself.

If you haven't said already, why did you pick the two of you? If you're both TPRs, then you're just redirected a shot at one TPR to another.

[FrostByte]

isn't it better to not drag it? DM is one of the top wagon here and an important piece of the puzzle, with the correct information without speculations, we can all have a fair chance at figuring this out. why would you post this?

Tbh I misread your post as insinuating that Martin was an Operator, but looking back it's clear that's not what you meant.

Our collective scum radar just all lit up simultaneously.

This is exactly why I asked him that same fucking question when he was commenting on the interaction between the two of them before. Seems like he's scum giving scum directions/feedback/ giving DM an out and making it easier for him to respond to Frinckles.

Seems like he's legit mad that DM is getting backed further into a corner

@Unknown1234 you gotta address this shit

-vote Unknown1234

[MattZed]

Okay give me your questions and I'll answer them.

And for the record, I do think you're town.

Question 1: Did you want day to end as early as it did?

Question 2: If "no" to above, why did you not unvote Oberon when he got to L-1?

[FrostByte]

@FrostByte , we've been on the same page a lot. Do you see Frinckles as scum? If yes plz vote him to no higher than L-2.

I think he's scummy but tpr always comes off scummy to me. If he made a gambit yesterday it's gonna bite him in his ass. If he doesn't answer your questions like he just said he would he's gonna catch this vote

[Frinckles]

Question 1: Did you want day to end as early as it did?

Question 2: If "no" to above, why did you not unvote Oberon when he got to L-1?

I didn't mind the day ending early, or Oberon being hammered. I thought I was clear that I had no intention of removing my vote from him, under any circumstances.

[Frinckles]

And if I could go back in time, I would tell my past self the following:

"Vote for Oberon."

[yzb25]

I stand by my day 1 comments about you. You have been incredibly scummy this game, and without your role claim and night actions that DM has basically confirmed I would probably be pushing for your lynch right now.

Your concern seems well-intentioned but I think the retardation of yesterday is making you underestimate our intelligence a little lol.

I was interrogating Frinckles because I think there's a non-zero chance he was a switcher who claimed scientist to allow for a follow up if he switched into triad and is now triad, but the main reason I'm doing it now is so it isn't spontaneously brought up at say, the EOD3 or smth. Or even worse, never. The scumplay from some of the new ppl on this site is v good. Compared to the scum I remember from our time, they aren't afraid to take ambitious risks on the fly. So these possibilities need to be given serious consideration.

I'd appreciate it if you didn't deconstruct future arguments like this.

[Unknown1234]

@Unknown1234 you gotta address this shit

-vote Unknown1234

Post 1085 I already answered this question.

The 2nd post isn't connected to me?

The third part doesn't make any sense to me. I've been scum-reading and pushing him the entire day, and if you are saying I would openly teach a teammate how to play in a FM game then I have nothing to say on that.

[yzb25]

Your concern seems well-intentioned but I think the retardation of yesterday is making you underestimate our intelligence a little lol.

I was interrogating Frinckles because I think there's a non-zero chance he was a switcher who claimed scientist to allow for a follow up if he switched into triad and is now triad, but the main reason I'm doing it now is so it isn't spontaneously brought up at say, the EOD3 or smth. Or even worse, never. The scumplay from some of the new ppl on this site is v good. Compared to the scum I remember from our time, they aren't afraid to take ambitious risks on the fly. So these possibilities need to be given serious consideration.

I'd appreciate it if you didn't deconstruct future arguments like this.

or at least, hold of on the fear when it isn't even L-2. Like bruh

[Unknown1234]

Your argument seems to suggest that I should only be focusing on Dark Magician and nobody else. There's more than one scum, and pointing out posts I find to be scummy doesn't take away from the lynch that I did (and still do) support. I think you're stretching this out a bit.

[Unknown1234]

@FrostByte the post is actually 1012 lol... I don't know where I got a post number that hasn't even entered the game from.

[FrostByte]

@FrostByte the post is actually 1012 lol... I don't know where I got a post number that hasn't even entered the game from.

This shit is moving fast lol

[Unknown1234]

This shit is moving fast lol

Honestly, it's difficult to keep up with everything that is happening. Considering I have the most posts currently I don't think I can complain about it though.

[FrostByte]

@FrostByte the post is actually 1012 lol... I don't know where I got a post number that hasn't even entered the game from.

The real question is why you didn't just not talk and let it unfold, as I had suggested to you. Why did you feel the need to comment on it?

[MattZed]

I didn't mind the day ending early, or Oberon being hammered. I thought I was clear that I had no intention of removing my vote from him, under any circumstances.

I appreciate the clarification, but I have a few followups.

Why, exactly, were you okay with day ending early, especially considering that your top scumreads were low-posters and you could prod them into more activity with a longer day?

[MartinGG99]

@MartinGG99 , thanks for linking to saying you swapped Frinckles and yourself.

If you haven't said already, why did you pick the two of you? If you're both TPRs, then you're just redirected a shot at one TPR to another.

I felt Frinckles position on D1 was a bit dubious and that if someone was going to die I would rather it be someone who's more "collectively null" rather than out of personal suspicion or thoughts.

And if Frinckles took the bullet (which would then hypothetically kill me) then that may show that the DH didn't believe Frinckles was triad, and give some credence to him being more towny.

In other words, I felt that it was a good way to help solve the game in either case of me being hit or Frinckles.

[Unknown1234]

Your concern seems well-intentioned but I think the retardation of yesterday is making you underestimate our intelligence a little lol.

I was interrogating Frinckles because I think there's a non-zero chance he was a switcher who claimed scientist to allow for a follow up if he switched into triad and is now triad, but the main reason I'm doing it now is so it isn't spontaneously brought up at say, the EOD3 or smth. Or even worse, never. The scumplay from some of the new ppl on this site is v good. Compared to the scum I remember from our time, they aren't afraid to take ambitious risks on the fly. So these possibilities need to be given serious consideration.

I'd appreciate it if you didn't deconstruct future arguments like this.

I apologize if that's how its coming across. There is some frustration in me because I feel like we could have avoided yesterday but I am past that. The one thing I want to make sure that doesn't happen is someone I suspect to be town ending up getting lynched because I wasn't vocal enough about my opinions. I suppose I could be going somewhat overboard (Drifting closer and closer to the Calix side hidden deep underneath) but I am trying to make sure people can see where I'm coming from. I don't feel like he would make this play after becoming triad because he'd have nowhere else to go (and he already was being scum-read quite a bit).

[MartinGG99]

I felt Frinckles position on D1 was a bit dubious and that if someone was going to die I would rather it be someone who's more "collectively null" rather than out of personal suspicion or thoughts.

And if Frinckles took the bullet (which would then hypothetically kill me) then that may show that the DH didn't believe Frinckles was triad, and give some credence to him being more towny.

In other words, I felt that it was a good way to help solve the game in either case of me being hit or Frinckles.

Of course my night bus actions for N2 may not follow the exact same philosophy.

Especially since there's roles who can prevent me from committing a bus action (which would be bad if that happened on a night that I died).

[Frinckles]

I appreciate the clarification, but I have a few followups.

Why, exactly, were you okay with day ending early, especially considering that your top scumreads were low-posters and you could prod them into more activity with a longer day?

I didnt expect any of them to contribute much anyway and had plenty of townreads. If you can find town you can box scum, and that's what I've been doing.

[MattZed]

Of course my night bus actions for N2 may not follow the exact same philosophy.

Especially since there's roles who can prevent me from committing a bus action (which would be bad if that happened on a night that I died).

NOT THAT YOU SHOULD SAY NOW, but closer to EoD, do you intend to suggest to a possible Locksmith who you're planning to protect with a bus, (so they can help someone else) or are you planning to possibly protect someone with the power of WIFOM?

[Unknown1234]

The real question is why you didn't just not talk and let it unfold, as I had suggested to you. Why did you feel the need to comment on it?

I don't feel like my comment was taking anything away from the Dark Magician train. The comment is focused on Naz, and shouldn't be discouraging anyone from voting on DM.

To make myself more clear, I am not accusing naz of lying about the claim. I just don't know if I'd say that it's coming from a town slot.

[yzb25]

I apologize if that's how its coming across. There is some frustration in me because I feel like we could have avoided yesterday but I am past that. The one thing I want to make sure that doesn't happen is someone I suspect to be town ending up getting lynched because I wasn't vocal enough about my opinions. I suppose I could be going somewhat overboard (Drifting closer and closer to the Calix side hidden deep underneath) but I am trying to make sure people can see where I'm coming from. I don't feel like he would make this play after becoming triad because he'd have nowhere else to go (and he already was being scum-read quite a bit).

What do you mean by "nowhere else to go"? If you were in frinckles' hypothetical switcher shoes and you end up targetting a triad and you already have your scientist claim that ppl view as legit, what would you do it? Claim you got a 0 check on Naz the next day?

[MartinGG99]

NOT THAT YOU SHOULD SAY NOW, but closer to EoD, do you intend to suggest to a possible Locksmith who you're planning to protect with a bus, (so they can help someone else) or are you planning to possibly protect someone with the power of WIFOM?

I think on matter of principle I won't comment on it further.

We don't know if its a moulder pretending to be a locksmith, regardless if I actually do or don't suspect that to be the case.

[Unknown1234]

What do you mean by "nowhere else to go"? If you were in frinckles' hypothetical switcher shoes and you end up targetting a triad and you already have your scientist claim that ppl view as legit, what would you do it? Claim you got a 0 check on Naz the next day?

I actually do see a bit of logic to this now. My original thoughts would be to expect a 1v1, since the new switcher would know that the old switcher was triad and would want to lynch someone so they could change roles. I suppose it wouldn't be a direct connection to Frinckles since he wasn't claiming he was switcher and instead pretending to be Scientist.

[MattZed]

I think on matter of principle I won't comment on it further.

We don't know if its a moulder pretending to be a locksmith, regardless if I actually do or don't suspect that to be the case.

What does a moulder really have to gain by using their action, though? They could end up blocking a DH kill.

I'm strongly suspecting Locksmith, especially as it seems like they targeted the same target as the DH.

[yzb25]

I actually do see a bit of logic to this now. My original thoughts would be to expect a 1v1, since the new switcher would know that the old switcher was triad and would want to lynch someone so they could change roles. I suppose it wouldn't be a direct connection to Frinckles since he wasn't claiming he was switcher and instead pretending to be Scientist.

exactly, and if in that hypothetical 1v1 DM turned around and said "Frinckles just took triad from me. Lynch him and I promise to try and switch into a town" Frinckles would be at risk of losing the 1v1.

It makes a lot more sense to just use your scientist claim.

[yzb25]

exactly, and if in that hypothetical 1v1 DM turned around and said "Frinckles just took triad from me. Lynch him and I promise to try and switch into a town" Frinckles would be at risk of losing the 1v1.

It makes a lot more sense to just use your scientist claim.

sorry I realized I'm just reiterating what you said to a degree. I'm going to try and go easy on the posting again

[Unknown1234]

exactly, and if in that hypothetical 1v1 DM turned around and said "Frinckles just took triad from me. Lynch him and I promise to try and switch into a town" Frinckles would be at risk of losing the 1v1.

It makes a lot more sense to just use your scientist claim.

I guess my point right now would be that even if Frinckles wins this 1v1, there wouldn't be anything stopping the town from distrusting him in the future and/or lynching him following the switcher lynch. While I see a bit more possibility in it than I did before, it still doesn't feel like a likely situation right now.

[Unknown1234]

sorry I realized I'm just reiterating what you said to a degree. I'm going to try and go easy on the posting again

I respect your opinion quite a bit in this game, and would prefer if you kept pursuing these kinds of discussions =)

[Frinckles]

I'm so confused, what role are you guys speculating on me being?

[Frinckles]

And certainly, have at it.

If you want to have a conversation with my, my current question is whether to lynch DM or DW

[Unknown1234]

I'm so confused, what role are you guys speculating on me being?

Yes.

[MartinGG99]

What does a moulder really have to gain by using their action, though? They could end up blocking a DH kill.

I'm strongly suspecting Locksmith, especially as it seems like they targeted the same target as the DH.

Well, like I said.

I'm not commenting on my night action plans anymore for today unless I think its warranted.

[MartinGG99]

Yes.

exactly

lol

[Frinckles]

Yes.

Okay thanks

[MattZed]

I'm so confused, what role are you guys speculating on me being?

For the record, Triad, but Switcher-who-didn't-switch isn't out of the picture.

[MattZed]

I'm getting sleepy IRL and am going to head off.
@Unknown1234 , how are you feeling about DW being an early-hammering Switcher in the context of the Frinckles-DM battle?

[Frinckles]

For the record, Triad, but Switcher-who-didn't-switch isn't out of the picture.

So if Martin is real, you believe I am triad

And the DH believes I am real scientist
And the locksmith believes I am real scientist
And there was no kill

Why would I not switch as switcher?

[Unknown1234]

I'm getting sleepy IRL and am going to head off.
@Unknown1234 , how are you feeling about DW being an early-hammering Switcher in the context of the Frinckles-DM battle?

I still don't like his lack of reading and early hammering towards the end of day, but I haven't had a chance to interact with him much. If DM is now triad and deathworlds is now switcher, I would not be surprised. I am waiting to hear more from him before I take a more solidified stance.

[Frinckles]

-vote deathworlds

This is how the game plays out.

DW flips switcher
We know DM is triad
Naz is confirmed
I'm confirmed
If im alive, locksmith is confirmed
Martin would probably be confirmed

And the game is basically over. The only thing DH can do is shoot naz if they think they're real or aim for locksmith

[yzb25]

I guess my point right now would be that even if Frinckles wins this 1v1, there wouldn't be anything stopping the town from distrusting him in the future and/or lynching him following the switcher lynch. While I see a bit more possibility in it than I did before, it still doesn't feel like a likely situation right now.

Correct me if my misunderstanding is wrong:

Frinckles switches, gets triad - he has the following strategic options:

1) Take no form of stance, give a null check on some rando. Retain his bad credibility, but nothing risked.
2) Attempt to 1v1 DM and eliminate switcher. Even if 1v1 is won, has to worry about long term viability. DM could easily flip it and convince town to keep him so they can lynch triad Frinckles. (DM's slot was quite scumread day 1.
3) Attempt to scientist 1v1 DM and eliminate switcher. Would almost definitely win 1v1. Stands to gain credibility if ppl occam's razor and view this play as unlikely or totally disregard it. Risks drawing more attention than he might have otherwise. But definitely a more interesting play. Also means he can worry much less about his visits and can use his power freely cuz noone has anything to verify about a scientist claim once switcher is dead.

Of these 3, I do not see 2 as remotely viable. I'm ngl I am inclined to 1, but that also lends 3 even more credibility. And I've gotten spanked by scum a lot in the past for being too biased to the safer options when guessing their moves.

[yzb25]

that's the last I'll say on it for the time being

[Frinckles]

We should be voting deathworlds to confirm naz right?