Game Categories

[Firebringer]

So I have been thinking about this a bit lately, some of the trouble I see lately is the setups we have been playing. A lot are what I consider...Experimental. We don't play that many really normal games of mafia on our site. Which, although I personally don't like them. I think we should play them more just to master the basics.

So what I am talking about here is adopting a system where setups have to be approved to be either:
A) Standard
or
B) Experimental

Throughout the season we would go between the two types of games (Experimental and Standard) and run them every other essentially. I would suggest new players play the standard to get the flow of the games, and even average players to improve the fundamentals of the game before jumping into the more wild Experimental games.

Let me go into the difference between these two:

So a Standard game, would essentially have no "special" mechanics. They would go by a traditional format of games. For example, a 13 player game, maybe 2-3 TPR and 3 Mafia. The role list would be more heavily scrutinized into what is standard or what isn't. Such as No Day role mechanics, Example DayVig. These games would be more scrutinized for Balance.

Experimental is the opposite and how setups are mostly done currently. They can be role madness, they can have lots of special mechanics, they can be weird. They can have any roles in them, and while they are reviewed and judged, players should know walking into them that they are inherently swingy and not the most balanced games in the world.


I think this would be good for our site to distinguish between the two and run games between the two and split the season 50/50 for these. This is because: Improve players fundamentals of the game, and give variety in games

[powerofdeath]

I agree. Most of my standard games I hosted in this site, had mafia stomped the town because town didnt exactly understand what they were supposed to do.

I remember back then we had mostly standard set ups, but with roleplay flavors that didnt really affect the game. It was still 3v8v2 standard games, or close to it.

[Frog]

Well done!

It's really easy to add flavor to any setup

A few suggestions:
1) C9/JK9 - classic variable open setups, so standard that Season 3 is using variations of these.
2) 9 players 6 villagers, 1 N0 cop, and 2 wolves - standard
3) 13 players 9 villagers, 1 N0 cop, and 3 wolves - larger standard

[DarknessB]

This sounds reasonable to me. If we get critical mass again, it'd be nice to have each queue running at the same time so people to pick the game type they want.

I agree though that our recent games have lacked Mafia fundamentals in terms of scum hunting, careful TPR vs Citizen play, etc., perhaps because everyone is used to TPR madness or very experimental types of games. Nothing wrong with them but a partial "back to basics" approach might do some good for our much-maligned meta and collective skillset, especially compared to other sites, in standard games.

[Cryptonic]

This sounds reasonable to me. If we get critical mass again, it'd be nice to have each queue running at the same time so people to pick the game type they want.

I agree though that our recent games have lacked Mafia fundamentals in terms of scum hunting, careful TPR vs Citizen play, etc., perhaps because everyone is used to TPR madness or very experimental types of games. Nothing wrong with them but a partial "back to basics" approach might do some good for our much-maligned meta and collective skillset, especially compared to other sites, in standard games.

Do you play FM on other sites?

[DarknessB]

Do you play FM on other sites?

I don't but I have lurked some of their games and observed what I like and what I don't. For example, I could never do the standard Mafiascum day length. I don't want to be thinking about a standard S-FM size game for 2 months and then have to sign up for a ton to compensate for the slower pace of play.

[MattZed]

As I've told anyone who's brought up the topic, if you want to see more "vanilla" games or pre-balanced games from other sites, simply put them into Setup Workshop; we can't have games without hosts. If the demand for these types of games is enough, (say, they get players who don't sign very often to sign up more) we can make them a third category of S-FM along with the "small" 6-10 player S-FMs and "large" 11-13 player games.

But to your concern about balancing, I must reject the assumption that our usual S-FMs are going to be "not the most balanced games in the world." These are indeed often setups that are hosted once and only once before the host goes and makes another. They aren't going to have the same playtesting experience as a more-replayed setup might, but balance is important for players to have fun, and Orpz and I screen carefully for balance before green-lighting a setup. All players, of course, are welcome to comment on setup threads to improve the setup and allow everyone to have a better time!

[Calix]

As I've told anyone who's brought up the topic, if you want to see more "vanilla" games or pre-balanced games from other sites, simply put them into Setup Workshop; we can't have games without hosts. If the demand for these types of games is enough, (say, they get players who don't sign very often to sign up more) we can make them a third category of S-FM along with the "small" 6-10 player S-FMs and "large" 11-13 player games.

But to your concern about balancing, I must reject the assumption that our usual S-FMs are going to be "not the most balanced games in the world." These are indeed often setups that are hosted once and only once before the host goes and makes another. They aren't going to have the same playtesting experience as a more-replayed setup might, but balance is important for players to have fun, and Orpz and I screen carefully for balance before green-lighting a setup. All players, of course, are welcome to comment on setup threads to improve the setup and allow everyone to have a better time!

You're adorable <3

How many games can I host in a row?

Said this before, but nobody is criticising the reviewers of the setup. They are criticising the setups actually being made. You can't polish a turd, lovie.

[MattZed]

You're adorable <3

How many games can I host in a row?

Said this before, but nobody is criticising the reviewers of the setup. They are criticising the setups actually being made. You can't polish a turd, lovie.

Tell you what, if your next "vanilla" S-FM proves popular, I can let you host a second right after if no one else has a vanilla setup they're really looking to host.

[Calix]

Tell you what, if your next "vanilla" S-FM proves popular, I can let you host a second right after if no one else has a vanilla setup they're really looking to host.

Deal.

[DarknessB]

Said this before, but nobody is criticising the reviewers of the setup. They are criticising the setups actually being made.

Wait, I have a long list of MattZed criticisms I want to share before we accept this premise...

[Calix]

Wait, I have a long list of MattZed criticisms I want to share before we accept this premise...

The Illuminati's watching ^)o.o)^

[MattZed]

Wait, I have a long list of MattZed criticisms I want to share before we accept this premise...

Well, seeing as you're staff and I can't use my mod powers to silence you, go ahead!

[RLVG]

Tell you what, if your next "vanilla" S-FM proves popular, I can let you host a second right after if no one else has a vanilla setup they're really looking to host.

Depends what you call vanilla.
I can do a vanilla setup. After my hidden setup, I have a 2 mafia 1 neutral benign 1 neutral killer 9 town setup planned with standard roles and some guaranteed citizens. Swap benign with mafia if necessary.

[MattZed]

Depends what you call vanilla.
I can do a vanilla setup. After my hidden setup, I have a 2 mafia 1 neutral benign 1 neutral killer. 9 town setup planned with standard roles and some guaranteed citizens. Swap benign with mafia if necessary.

That might be a few too many neutrals to be truly 'vanilla,' but I can look into considering it as a 'vanilla' game if you'd like.

The main litmus text for 'vanilla' is gonna be: "Has this setup been played before (on this site or elsewhere) and been considered balanced?"

[DarknessB]

I want to host the following vanilla game: https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...-sfm-vigilance

I'm expecting quick approval, @MattZed .

[MattZed]

I want to host the following vanilla game: https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...-sfm-vigilance

I'm expecting quick approval, @MattZed .

All setups need a list of mechanics, special mechanics, wincons, rules, and an OoO.

(Vanilla games should generally not have a 'special mechanic')

[DarknessB]

All setups need a list of mechanics, special mechanics, wincons, rules, and an OoO.

(Vanilla games should generally not have a 'special mechanic')

So basically what you're saying is that our site simply isn't ready for the awesomeness that is S-FM Vigilance? Or, more likely -- you are going to rip off the idea and use it as your own! Who would do a thing like that?