S-FM 316 : The Fooling Party

[Helz]

I think the problem is you took a different approach than my reasoning and I just don't follow where you're coming from in terms of setting a trap. If I'm missing something from your recent posts I will go back and look for it.

The issue is that it required you to depend on others alignments for information. By you revealing first you give others the opportunity to change what they were going to claim as their fake feedback and alter the way the CC fight plays out.
Maybe we just think about it differently but I would have done as you did only if I was scum. The wording of "Whats your real role" also screamed "trap incoming" while something softer like asking to verify I wasn't pulling a gambit a while into the day would have also been a stronger play. These sorts of things make me question if you were really trying to set a trap there or if you were going through the motions to appear to be setting a trap.

I wasn't going to reveal until day 3 when we discussed a mass role-claim because I did not want to make yzb a bigger target and make myself less of one. As I said before, me dying is one of the better case scenarios that can come from my role, and from what I've read in your posts so far you don't seem to see that.

Someone (May have been Bakermir?) was throwing some smoke and mirrors shade around. For me to explain how I made that PoE I had to reveal that bit. I ended up doing it because I had already considered the situation for quite a while earlier. I felt that me revealing has no cost. If I was killed it would make the PoE harder on the Triad while confirming Matt and I see myself effectively as a citizen. Every time I am a citizen I take pride in being night killed because it means a PR gets a pass that day.

It also had the added advantage of shifting things in the PoE. My thoughts there were that I could create Wifom to limit kills into the players outside the PoE causing the dragon head to have a much higher chance of contending with the Locksmith and the Bus Driver. I am very surprised to see the kill on Bakermir.

Thats a lot of benefits imo. I am particularly interested to see how this plays out if Unknown holds to his claim. 2 bus drivers is unlikely but 2 Butlers is a bit much.

Did you not read this post in response to Yzb asking why I revealed? I am not sure how you could say that I do not see it as you do.

I don't think I ever said it's less convincing where you peaked your role, I feel like you're mis-reading me. I suspect you because of when you revealed your actual role, not when you hinted at it. I'm not going to argue with you about how you soft claimed your role because to think you wouldn't be capable of this as triad would be a bad play. I don't consider this AI at all though because characterizing your play as being smart enough to do something like this as triad isn't an argument.

That being said, do you think we could both be butler? You talk a lot about you hinting at your own role but you've never actually discussed mine. If you want me to thread search for it I will do this.

I only consider it possible because this is an experimental setup, there is no role/alignment cops, and alignment switching exists. Normally 2 butlers would be absurdly OP but with the game as it is we can not verify any claim without eliminating players so Butler reveals mean much less. The peeks also only tell what a player started as and would normally mean very little as the game dragged on. I feel like we semi-broke the game hitting the switcher as fast as we did while also being able to verify who he was previously. The way that situation played out pretty much could not have been any better for the town.

I do not want to ask you questions until I have dug through your posts again. We have a full day ahead of us with the lynch all but locked in. There is plenty of time for us to talk.

[yzb25]

I still wouldn't mind hearing your thoughts on Yzb. Now it could help both sort him and Unknown.

I thought you described me and unknown as "widely townread" and literally excluded us from your personal POE on that basis? Obviously this situation mechanically forces you to change your read on unknown and I'm forced to change my read on either you or unknown, but I don't see why your read on me is changing? Has this whole debacle just cast general doubt on your previous townreads? Or does the "help sort" refer to others in this context?

[MattZed]

How exactly did you come up with this bullshit?

Look how purposely ambiguous you're being lmfao it's kinda ridiculous at this point

Nobody knows Unknown or Helz or YZB or you or me or naz

You said MECHANICALLY this has to be true when MECHANICALLY the only TRUTH is who's in the fucking graveyard. Make a case, say it's probable, whatever, but don't say MECHANICALLY someone knows shit. You're overplaying your hand and lying through your fucking teeth.

Are you actually this stuck on the fact that I used the word "mechanical" to describe how TownMartin should be logically deducing things?

[MartinGG99]

I thought you described me and unknown as "widely townread" and literally excluded us from your personal POE on that basis? Obviously this situation mechanically forces you to change your read on unknown and I'm forced to change my read on either you or unknown, but I don't see why your read on me is changing? Has this whole debacle just cast general doubt on your previous townreads? Or does the "help sort" refer to others in this context?

I would also like Helz to respond to this btw

[Helz]

If you're town and believe Unknown+Helz, then mechanically you know the scum are DM+Naz+Renegade+FrostByte.

Do Helz/Unknown really seem scummier to you than any of the 4 I listed as scum?

DM as scum I'll give you but Naz, Renegade and I are definitely ambiguous at best. Saying "mechanically, they're scum" is actively misleading. Like, if you were Trump posting this on Twitter it would get a big old THIS HAS BEEN FACT CHECKED AND SHOWN TO BE BULLSHIT tag over the front of it.

Big old fucking liar

It would very very LITERALLY mean exactly what Matt said though. If theres 10 people in a game with 4 scum and 6 town then by knowing the 6 town you mechanically know the scum.. Because there are 4 of them and 4 players left.

There is no overstatement or anything misleading what so ever in Matts wording..

[Helz]

Pet peeve of mine.. Reminds me of when people try to say something is not ironic without actually understanding what ironic means >.>

[Unknown1234]

The issue is that it required you to depend on others alignments for information. By you revealing first you give others the opportunity to change what they were going to claim as their fake feedback and alter the way the CC fight plays out.
Maybe we just think about it differently but I would have done as you did only if I was scum. The wording of "Whats your real role" also screamed "trap incoming" while something softer like asking to verify I wasn't pulling a gambit a while into the day would have also been a stronger play. These sorts of things make me question if you were really trying to set a trap there or if you were going through the motions to appear to be setting a trap.



Did you not read this post in response to Yzb asking why I revealed? I am not sure how you could say that I do not see it as you do.

I only consider it possible because this is an experimental setup, there is no role/alignment cops, and alignment switching exists. Normally 2 butlers would be absurdly OP but with the game as it is we can not verify any claim without eliminating players so Butler reveals mean much less. The peeks also only tell what a player started as and would normally mean very little as the game dragged on. I feel like we semi-broke the game hitting the switcher as fast as we did while also being able to verify who he was previously. The way that situation played out pretty much could not have been any better for the town.

I do not want to ask you questions until I have dug through your posts again. We have a full day ahead of us with the lynch all but locked in. There is plenty of time for us to talk.

Look at this from my perspective.

Towards the end of day 2 I see that the vote target is not being changed and log off only to wake up in the morning to see someone claiming my role.
1.) The point you don't seem to understand that I'm saying or are choosing not to read is that I did not think you were butler, but I didn't think you were triad either. In my mind there I thought you were fake claiming Butler because I thought that you KNEW I WAS BUTLER based on the part in your read at the start of day 2 that I highlighted and the fact that we were your strongest town-reads. I was not setting a trap at all because I did not think you were triad.
2.) This was written for my last will. The majority of people town-read me and I wasn't going to claim any sooner in the chance that I could still die. Me asking you for your real role was me trying to figure out how many town players I believed were almost confirmed. You continuing to claim Butler was a surprise for me because I didn't see your soft claim in the same way that MattZed did.

As for your message in response to Yzb, you make such a post yet went ahead and revealed despite agreeing it was a good idea to stay hidden, and then argue with me about why I didn't wait for a potential TPR to reveal information. My only goal going into this day was to figure out how many people I could confirm as town and make a PoE list to narrow down the rest.

I honestly feel like you are trying to convince me that you're butler and scum-painting me for being suspicious that you aren't. I am going to hold off on this for now as well.

[MartinGG99]

Also

-vote Dark Magician

I'm not saying to hammer this guy but I do believe regardless if the CA has bound him or not we need to eliminate him, as much as I hate to say it.



Also

We forgot to consider one thing:

What are the possibilities that Bakermir died because he was bound, and the person he was bound with should've died on N2 but instead Bakermir did?

[Helz]

I thought you described me and unknown as "widely townread" and literally excluded us from your personal POE on that basis? Obviously this situation mechanically forces you to change your read on unknown and I'm forced to change my read on either you or unknown, but I don't see why your read on me is changing? Has this whole debacle just cast general doubt on your previous townreads? Or does the "help sort" refer to others in this context?

You and Unknown were not excluded from the PoE. You were both in it but with a caveat like with Naz.

I am not sure why me triangulating with Martin on you would suggest my read on you has changed. We had a conversation yesterday where he called a ton of people town reads and excluded you so I asked what his read on you was which he suggested he would provide today. Getting that read both gives me a different view on you as well as gives me a view on how he is looking at other players. Both very good things in a day where we are not arguing about who to lynch, but rather digging threw etch-other for tomorrow. Its rare towns find themselves in a situation like this and we should take advantage of it.

[MartinGG99]

What are the possibilities that Bakermir died because he was bound, and the person he was bound with should've died on N2 but instead Bakermir did?

Actually it's probably impossible to know atm

but I don't think we should permanently discount this

[FrostByte]

Are you actually this stuck on the fact that I used the word "mechanical" to describe how TownMartin should be logically deducing things?

Damn bro look at you only addressing a single point of the post and ignoring everything else

[MattZed]

Also

-vote Dark Magician

I'm not saying to hammer this guy but I do believe regardless if the CA has bound him or not we need to eliminate him, as much as I hate to say it.



Also

We forgot to consider one thing:

What are the possibilities that Bakermir died because he was bound, and the person he was bound with should've died on N2 but instead Bakermir did?

Binding doesn't switch night kills, just flips from night kills. So if Baker was bound N1 he was bound with a Citizen and Baker is (probably) some other role.

[FrostByte]

Pet peeve of mine.. Reminds me of when people try to say something is not ironic without actually understanding what ironic means >.>

ok friend you be pedantic with an incorrect definition of the word "Mechanical"

[MattZed]

ok friend you be pedantic with an incorrect definition of the word "Mechanical"

Literally no one thought I was using "mechanical" in the way you think it should be used.

[FrostByte]

Literally no one thought I was using "mechanical" in the way you think it should be used.

Oh man you know what literally everyone in this game thinks? If we're gonna be nitpicky and pedantic we can be nitpicky and pedantic

[MartinGG99]

You and Unknown were not excluded from the PoE. You were both in it but with a caveat like with Naz.

I am not sure why me triangulating with Martin on you would suggest my read on you has changed. We had a conversation yesterday where he called a ton of people town reads and excluded you so I asked what his read on you was which he suggested he would provide today. Getting that read both gives me a different view on you as well as gives me a view on how he is looking at other players. Both very good things in a day where we are not arguing about who to lynch, but rather digging threw etch-other for tomorrow. Its rare towns find themselves in a situation like this and we should take advantage of it.

Okay, I think Helz has a decent chance of being town here.

I think a !scum Helz here would be thinking of some other reason to get out of this, he's currently under a lot of presumed pressure and has had to do a lot of quick thinking.

I attacked almost every scum-read he had yesterday to some extent.

And if he believes I am town with some reasonably correct reads and he is town, he kinda has to believe me here.

[MartinGG99]

Okay, I think Helz has a decent chance of being town here.

I think a !scum Helz here would be thinking of some other reason to get out of this, he's currently under a lot of presumed pressure and has had to do a lot of quick thinking.

I attacked almost every scum-read he had yesterday to some extent.

And if he believes I am town with some reasonably correct reads and he is town, he kinda has to believe me here.

Ignore the salmon color here

that was a stupid thought.

[FrostByte]

Damn bro look at you only addressing a single point of the post and ignoring everything else

and still this btw

[MartinGG99]

Honestly I'm going to make the radical suggestion that we wait until LYLO or something like that to decide which of the butlers die (if any)


because for the DH it would be optimal to not kill any of them, which constricts their KPN capacity a lot unless they're in the group of 4: Helz, Unkown, Yzb25, and MattZed.

Which leaves possible KPN targets to just

Martin
Frinckles
Renegade
Naz
FrostByte
DarkMagician (But we're eliminating him today lol unless CA saves him and even then DH won't shoot him)

[naz]

Actually it's probably impossible to know atm

but I don't think we should permanently discount this

baker didn't move last night tho :/
so unless he was a mafia role that didn't move last night, he was likely the cit here
thats why I wanted to know who u bussed, bc i did consider this

& honestly the fact ur not revealing who u bussed makes me think u aren't a bus driver - I think ur scared to make up the swaps bc u don't want to get caught🤪

u fishy <>< 🐟🦭🐠🐡🦈🐳

[Helz]

Look at this from my perspective.

Towards the end of day 2 I see that the vote target is not being changed and log off only to wake up in the morning to see someone claiming my role.
1.) The point you don't seem to understand that I'm saying or are choosing not to read is that I did not think you were butler, but I didn't think you were triad either. In my mind there I thought you were fake claiming Butler because I thought that you KNEW I WAS BUTLER based on the part in your read at the start of day 2 that I highlighted and the fact that we were your strongest town-reads. I was not setting a trap at all because I did not think you were triad.
2.) This was written for my last will. The majority of people town-read me and I wasn't going to claim any sooner in the chance that I could still die. Me asking you for your real role was me trying to figure out how many town players I believed were almost confirmed. You continuing to claim Butler was a surprise for me because I didn't see your soft claim in the same way that MattZed did.

That does make sense to me.

As for your message in response to Yzb, you make such a post yet went ahead and revealed despite agreeing it was a good idea to stay hidden, and then argue with me about why I didn't wait for a potential TPR to reveal information.

Well no. I very specifically said I was against a mass claim. I also said that I would be in support of citizens claiming. And as I said before, I consider Butler to effectively be a citizen.

Me arguing about why you didnt wait for TPR info reveal is because I see waiting as the stronger town play. The question still came down to it being AI based on if you also had that understanding but I do believe you do not especially given you still don't understand why I think not waiting could be AI.

My only goal going into this day was to figure out how many people I could confirm as town and make a PoE list to narrow down the rest.

I honestly feel like you are trying to convince me that you're butler and scum-painting me for being suspicious that you aren't. I am going to hold off on this for now as well.

I am not scum-painting you for being suspicious; I find some details in how you are suspicious to be alarming. If I didn't I wouldn't be asking questions.

[Helz]

ok friend you be pedantic with an incorrect definition of the word "Mechanical"

Lol. Well said, It very much is my pedantic nature that made me post that >.<

[MartinGG99]

baker didn't move last night tho :/
so unless he was a mafia role that didn't move last night, he was likely the cit here
thats why I wanted to know who u bussed, bc i did consider this

& honestly the fact ur not revealing who u bussed makes me think u aren't a bus driver - I think ur scared to make up the swaps bc u don't want to get caught🤪

u fishy <>< 🐟🦭🐠🐡🦈🐳

People don't move in order to get bound by the Corrupted Assessor. Its possible the Corrupted Assessor targeted him and someone else on N1. Please read the setup.

I am hiding my n2 switch in case there is a dual claim of Locksmith. I know for a fact that 2 people weren't visited by locksmith last night.

[MattZed]

What Town Randoms could we even have out there if town isn't Frinckles+Martin+Helz+Me+Unknown+yzb?

We COULD have extra citizens, but that would be odd
I have trouble believing we have a BD that hasn't spoken up
One of me/yzb is probably Locksmith, although I suppose having more than one locksmith is POSSIBLE
Detectives/Lookouts that haven't said anything at this point would be very weird
Vig is *possible*, and could explain any resistance to massclaim
Mayor might not have revealed yet, but I don't really see why not
A butler who hasn't claimed yet is CRAZY.
War Surgeon is possible and maybe explains the lack of an N1 kill
Shopkeeper not speaking up after N1 is weird.

So between me/yzb/Renegade/FrostByte, there's probably at least one citizen and locksmith, and then MAYBE a Vig/Mayor/War Surgeon.

[MartinGG99]

**Corrupted Assessor :
You have a one-time ability that you can activate during the night.
Choose 2 players to bind them together. You cannot unbind. You are a unique role. More infos at the bottom of this post.

1- If one of the two is being lynched, it will be the other that will die. The first one will stay alive.
2- If one of the two is being killed at night, the role that will show up will be the other.

(Will only take effect at the start of the following day.)

Corrupted Assessor have to sent a PM to the Host, DURING NIGHT.
Please note that, the effect of Corrupted Assessor will be active from the following day, until one of the two bound player dies at night or is lynched.
Corrupted Assessor ability can only be used ONCE.

You bind 2 players together. If one is getting lynched, its instead the other that will be. The first one will stay alive.
If one is getting killed (at night), the role that will be shown up to everyone will be the role of the other player.

The bond will be broken whenever either of them is killed/lynched.

Your night action do not work if at least one of the 2 players you bound, die on the same night you bound them.
If that is the case, you shall cast your ability once again, the following night.

There, I made it simpler for you Naz.

[FrostByte]

Lol. Well said, It very much is my pedantic nature that made me post that >.<

I've already described myself as pedantic this game lmfao so me too, it's all good

[FrostByte]

TownMartin knows Martin is town. He knows Frinckles is town. If he knows Unknown+Helz are town, then he knows yzb and I are town.

There are almost certainly 6 town alive, and a TownMartin who knows Helz+Unknown are town knows all 6.

You still haven't explained how you came up with this bullshit

[MattZed]

My current theory:
Frinckles - Scientist
Martin - Bus Driver
MattZed/Yzb25 - Locksmith/Citizen or Citizen/Locksmith

Dark Magician - Definitely Triad
Renegade - Probably Triad
FrostByte - Probably Triad

And then the last triad is whichever one of naz/Helz/Unknown is lying.

[yzb25]

You and Unknown were not excluded from the PoE. You were both in it but with a caveat like with Naz.

I am not sure why me triangulating with Martin on you would suggest my read on you has changed. We had a conversation yesterday where he called a ton of people town reads and excluded you so I asked what his read on you was which he suggested he would provide today. Getting that read both gives me a different view on you as well as gives me a view on how he is looking at other players. Both very good things in a day where we are not arguing about who to lynch, but rather digging threw etch-other for tomorrow. Its rare towns find themselves in a situation like this and we should take advantage of it.

It doesn't really matter whether we technically were or weren't on it. I'm just making the point your townreads on us were strong enough for you to exclude us when you listed the same 3 names multiple times for your POE.

Maybe I'm over-pedestalizing you, but you claimed to have read everything 3 times to Frosty. You have an immaculate response to every question in <5 minutes, and borderline academic knowledge of how this game works, putting aside the fact it's fucking absurd and nerdy to talk about a forum game "academically". I somehow doubt Martin is going to flip any of your reads with his, and I somehow feel like you know this. You haven't asked for anyone else for insights at any other point in the game simply for the sake of it - it was always to steer conversation or make a read, as far as I can remember.

Excuse me for being presumptuous, it just looked a little like you were using Martin.

Anyway, as you say I have a lot of time to make my mind up about this, and your answers are quite strong.

[MattZed]

You still haven't explained how you came up with this bullshit

Wait... that's the part you find questionable?

It's based on the sound assumption that townHelz and townUnknown wouldn't be lying about Butler at this point.

[FrostByte]

There, I made it simpler for you Naz.

Right, but naz said that they think baker was cit because baker didn't move last night. I don't think naz was assuming baker got bound last night.

[Unknown1234]

That does make sense to me.

Well no. I very specifically said I was against a mass claim. I also said that I would be in support of citizens claiming. And as I said before, I consider Butler to effectively be a citizen.

Me arguing about why you didnt wait for TPR info reveal is because I see waiting as the stronger town play. The question still came down to it being AI based on if you also had that understanding but I do believe you do not especially given you still don't understand why I think not waiting could be AI.


I am not scum-painting you for being suspicious; I find some details in how you are suspicious to be alarming. If I didn't I wouldn't be asking questions.

I think we will have to agree to disagree about whether or not Butler is considered a citizen. In my opinion revealing early as one only makes it easier for triad.

Since it seems likely that you didn't already believe I was butler, I'm going to drop this point as of now. I still don't know whether I want to believe that there are two butlers in this setup with two bus drivers, but I don't feel like Martin's actions have been scum-driven. I'm going to sit on this thought for now and re-read to see if you being butler does make sense.

[FrostByte]

My current theory:
Frinckles - Scientist
Martin - Bus Driver
MattZed/Yzb25 - Locksmith/Citizen or Citizen/Locksmith

Dark Magician - Definitely Triad
Renegade - Probably Triad
FrostByte - Probably Triad

And then the last triad is whichever one of naz/Helz/Unknown is lying.

How are you and Yzb supposedly town? Why do you have the two of you arranged like that?

[Unknown1234]

My current theory:
Frinckles - Scientist
Martin - Bus Driver
MattZed/Yzb25 - Locksmith/Citizen or Citizen/Locksmith

Dark Magician - Definitely Triad
Renegade - Probably Triad
FrostByte - Probably Triad

And then the last triad is whichever one of naz/Helz/Unknown is lying.

I've seen your thoughts on FrostByte, but what makes you suspicious of Renegade?

[FrostByte]

Wait... that's the part you find questionable?

It's based on the sound assumption that townHelz and townUnknown wouldn't be lying about Butler at this point.

And what makes you say rene and I are triad? Let's have that conversation.

[yzb25]

lemme try and pick unknown's brain next

[yzb25]

this is quite nice. We can go through the game and check literally every time unknown talked to me and helz talked to matt, though frustratingly I feel like they made sure their asses were covered lmao

[MattZed]

I've townread yzb all game. If he were scum, then Unknown is also scum, and then there's only ONE scum between Helz/Martin/Naz/FrostByte/Renegade. That just seems bonkers.

I also think we've seen all of the TPRs claim except for Locksmith, because any other roles likely would have had interesting feedback to share already. I've grouped yzb with myself because I'm claiming to be either Locksmith or Citizen, I strongly suspect yzb is the one I'm not, and I want the Citizen to be able to WIFOM the Locksmith into not dying. (whichever one of us that is)

FrostByte/Renegade probably scum by POE. (and to a much lesser extent their resistance of the narrative today)

[FrostByte]

I've townread yzb all game. If he were scum, then Unknown is also scum, and then there's only ONE scum between Helz/Martin/Naz/FrostByte/Renegade. That just seems bonkers.

I also think we've seen all of the TPRs claim except for Locksmith, because any other roles likely would have had interesting feedback to share already. I've grouped yzb with myself because I'm claiming to be either Locksmith or Citizen, I strongly suspect yzb is the one I'm not, and I want the Citizen to be able to WIFOM the Locksmith into not dying. (whichever one of us that is)

FrostByte/Renegade probably scum by POE. (and to a much lesser extent their resistance of the narrative today)

What resistance? I've been questioning it and I've been very particular about stating that I'm not against it. Asking relevant questions about the finer details and possibilities definitely isn't scum behavior.

You're scumpainting me because I'm not sucking your dick.

[MartinGG99]

Honestly I'm going to make the radical suggestion that we wait until LYLO or something like that to decide which of the butlers die (if any)


because for the DH it would be optimal to not kill any of them, which constricts their KPN capacity a lot unless they're in the group of 4: Helz, Unkown, Yzb25, and MattZed.

Which leaves possible KPN targets to just

Martin
Frinckles
Renegade
Naz
FrostByte
DarkMagician (But we're eliminating him today lol unless CA saves him and even then DH won't shoot him)

@MattZed

Do you have any thoughts about this?

Is it sound or did I miss something?

[yzb25]

Here's what I think - both of them revealed after Naz revealed she can see who ppl visit. My instinct is that one of them is corrupt assessor, otherwise their whole claim rests on needing to discredit naz as well, which they may have thought was doable but if Naz did a Naz thing and just casually revealed feedback in a really sincere looking way could really fuck them.

Anyway, if you know you're corrupt assessor, maybe you keep your options open for a butler claim from Naz's reveal, or maybe even before, because rly your only options to claim are citi or butler. All the other town roles are doing shit. I don't think Helz opening post should be regarded too much in that analysis, that's just too fucking obvious lmao. But it gives a way to interpret their playstyle if we know they're potentially playing the game angling for a butler/citi claim. They've both had a very friendly approach, and we can try analyzing how they talk to their townreads in general. For example, it's possible Unknown was angling to see if he could butler on Bakermir. Maybe Helz was considering butler claiming on me.

[MattZed]

@yzb25 , if you are NOT one of Locksmith/Citizen, I need to substantially update my reads. I'm not asking you to claim today, but please take into account that I'm probably quite wrong with my guesses overall if I'm wrong about you.

[FrostByte]

I've townread yzb all game. If he were scum, then Unknown is also scum, and then there's only ONE scum between Helz/Martin/Naz/FrostByte/Renegade. That just seems bonkers.

I also think we've seen all of the TPRs claim except for Locksmith, because any other roles likely would have had interesting feedback to share already. I've grouped yzb with myself because I'm claiming to be either Locksmith or Citizen, I strongly suspect yzb is the one I'm not, and I want the Citizen to be able to WIFOM the Locksmith into not dying. (whichever one of us that is)

FrostByte/Renegade probably scum by POE. (and to a much lesser extent their resistance of the narrative today)

This feels like you're trying to bait TPRs into claiming btw. Not a good look.

[yzb25]

Here's what I think - both of them revealed after Naz revealed she can see who ppl visit. My instinct is that one of them is corrupt assessor, otherwise their whole claim rests on needing to discredit naz as well, which they may have thought was doable but if Naz did a Naz thing and just casually revealed feedback in a really sincere looking way could really fuck them.

Anyway, if you know you're corrupt assessor, maybe you keep your options open for a butler claim from Naz's reveal, or maybe even before, because rly your only options to claim are citi or butler. All the other town roles are doing shit. I don't think Helz opening post should be regarded too much in that analysis, that's just too fucking obvious lmao. But it gives a way to interpret their playstyle if we know they're potentially playing the game angling for a butler/citi claim. They've both had a very friendly approach, and we can try analyzing how they talk to their townreads in general. For example, it's possible Unknown was angling to see if he could butler on Bakermir. Maybe Helz was considering butler claiming on me.

to amend the first paragraph, given they made a butler claim with the awareness of Naz, they'd either have to be rdy to discredit Naz or maybe be rdy to guess if she's visiting them and not move. That's potentially crippling as DH. The fact they're both unlikely to be DH makes how willing they were to be pro-town very impressive indeed

Man this is really exciting. Please don't fuck this up for me okay lads?

[FrostByte]

Legit got scumpainted earlier in the game for not talking d1 even though it wasn't my fault, got scumpainted for not scum hunting, and I'm getting scumpainted for scum hunting.

"Resisting the narrative" lmfao what is this Nazi Germany? What do you expect me to do? Just be a good boy and nod every time daddy Matt talks? Fuck that, I'm asking questions that other people aren't. I'm probing. I'm doing work. Fuck you guys.

[MattZed]

@MattZed

Do you have any thoughts about this?

Is it sound or did I miss something?

Let me think it out:

IF we successfully yeet DM today, then we go into night 6v3.

If we wake up 6v3, then there's at least one triad not claiming butler, AND we can afford to misyeet.

If we wake up 5v3 and both butlers are alive, then a misyeet could kill us and it's very likely at least one butler is lying.

If we wake up 6v2 then LOL gg triad. I'd want to know who flipped what before really speculating here.

[MattZed]

Legit got scumpainted earlier in the game for not talking d1 even though it wasn't my fault, got scumpainted for not scum hunting, and I'm getting scumpainted for scum hunting.

"Resisting the narrative" lmfao what is this Nazi Germany? What do you expect me to do? Just be a good boy and nod every time daddy Matt talks? Fuck that, I'm asking questions that other people aren't. I'm probing. I'm doing work. Fuck you guys.

Saying Frinckles isn't mechanically confirmed isn't just "asking questions." This is what bothered me the most. But again, mostly PoE.

[yzb25]

@yzb25 , if you are NOT one of Locksmith/Citizen, I need to substantially update my reads. I'm not asking you to claim today, but please take into account that I'm probably quite wrong with my guesses overall if I'm wrong about you.

frankly, your reads are a dumpster-fire. I leave myself open to claiming a non-locksmith TPR if I so desire, and I leave the other players here with that option too. Double butler ain't fucking happening bro. Revise your reads.

[Renegade]

Yzb25 is my Town confirmed slot.

If I'm dead this means there's a chance that Helz is town. In the event, there are three situations that could exist right now.

1.) Helz is town but not Butler, and suspected that I was butler. I believe this could be the case because of #post 752 made by him. He says he does not want to discuss why this slot might be town for "-reasons-" and also puts me as his highest town-read only above yzb25. If this situation is true I suspect him to be a stronger town role and was hoping to get attention on him and not on others.

I hinted several times that Yzb25 was my butler target, and Helz seemed to strongly town-read me most of the game. I believe this is a very possible scenario. In the event this is true, I still suspect MattZed to be triad.

2.) Helz is town and we are both Butler. While this seems extremely unlikely given that it would leave us with two extra confirmed town players, and would leave 4 triad in DM/Bakermir/Renegade/Naz/FrostByte. This feels like the most unlikely scenario to be true, partially because of setup balance.

3.) Helz is triad and is fake-claiming Butler. This could either be because he didn't see anyone else claiming Butler and saw it as an opportunity, or because he thought I was butler for reasons previously stated. I would not put it past Helz to do this but I think his reaction in day 3 is more likely indicative of which scenario this is.

Yzb, Frinckles and Martin should not be considered for lynch in this game anymore. Frinckles catching the switcher and revealing it makes him basically confirmed, while Martin's roleclaim also puts him in a similar position. MattZed should also not be lynched before Helz unless his Butler claim ends up being fake like I expect it to.

Ignoring Helz' claim, my 4 triad picks would have been MattZed, DM, Naz, and FrostByte. With Helz claiming to be Butler, it leaves me more inclined to believe Naz being an actual Detective or FrostByte being a silent unrevealed TPR. I think night action from Naz will make this situation much more clear.

Agree 100%

[FrostByte]

Saying Frinckles isn't mechanically confirmed isn't just "asking questions." This is what bothered me the most. But again, mostly PoE.

NOBODY IS MECHANICALLY CONFIRMED UNTIL THEY DIE AND FLIP. STOP ASSUMING SHIT.

I could see you getting all mad if I made a case against him or wouldn't shut up about it but that's some weak shit to scumpaint someone for.