S-FM 317: Eternia [LADDER]

[FrostByte]

being confirmed does not make your reads any more accurate. And you're voting with scum lol

Ignore 2/3 of the post and pick the lowest hanging fruit. Low effort constantly. I hope you don't wonder why I'm voting you rn.

[Mesk514]

Please explain to me how scum!Mike benefits from going against the wagon that was on me. He'd had to have the foresight that pocketing me would be more important than winning townpoints by following the established narrative.

I mean, LOL. YES!!! If he's scum, he does have the foresight that pocketing you is important. If you were lynched, that gives him some townie point, and if he whiteknights you, he gets this sort of reaction out of you when someone suggests he's the scum. Either way, he gains town points by not following the established narrative. Maybe not at that exact moment, but in the long run, yeah.

I'm not tunneling you at all, I'm poking at your logic. I've been doing it to literally everyone this game. My vote isn't even on you at the moment.

I don't think you're tunnelling me at all, I just think you're trying to find something that's not there.

[Frinckles]

Ignore 2/3 of the post and pick the lowest hanging fruit. Low effort constantly. I hope you don't wonder why I'm voting you rn.

you are confusing as heck.

[MattZed]

Pick least likely scum team and treat it as 50/50

So yeet one. If they flip town, yeet the other.

I don't see how your plan raises the likelihood of us hitting scum. Seems like unnecessary mental gymnastics.

Why would Guardian Angel neut spend the entire game trying to lead town? You don't benefit from it. That shit doesn't make sense. Your wincon was supposedly to keep Helz alive, not win with town.

Crumbing a claim doesn't actually give that claim more validity. It just requires a little bit of foresight. You made the observation that Helz seemed town as fuck early on, it would be easy enough to start crumbing a guardian claim then and wait for your moment to shine.

Pair that with the resistance to explaining yourself that you've been exhibiting today and you look sus as fuck.

You aren't just picking the most likely team, then yeeting them in some order. For instance, some may think Mesk is the scummiest person here, and Frinckles the second scummiest. (This is not at all my opinion.) IF Mesk turns up town, however, they should be less inclined to yeet Frinckles: Even if Frinckles seemed scummy, it's hard to imagine him being on a team with Mike or MM, so they should change their mind to MM or Mike, even if they feel MM/Mike seems townier.

My wincon was to have the game end with Helz alive. If I think Helz is town, then I should be trying to win with town. If town loses, Helz is dead, so I lose.

I will add it seems Helz picked up on my signals and believed them: Note how he excludes me from the possible scum list in his LW, even though he never checked me. He recognized my crumb and saw that I was playing to help town, which is why he's not suspicious of me.

[Mesk514]

-vote unvote

We got time, don't let him be hammered this early, but my vote is there.

[Frinckles]

-vote unvote

We got time, don't let him be hammered this early, but my vote is there.

Your willingness to unvote confirms your town to me, neat.

[FrostByte]

he does have the foresight that pocketing you is important.

Me in particular? The guy who was widely scumread all the way through day 2? I'm not special, there's no reason he'd pick me out of literally everyone else to try to pocket.

he gains town points by not following the established narrative. Maybe not at that exact moment, but in the long run, yeah.

You don't get town points for going against the established narrative. You definitely get scumpoints when that happens.

[FrostByte]

Pickleast likely scum team

LEAST LIKELY. NOT MOST LIKELY. LEAST.

[Frinckles]

Me in particular? The guy who was widely scumread all the way through day 2? I'm not special, there's no reason he'd pick me out of literally everyone else to try to pocket.



You don't get town points for going against the established narrative. You definitely get scumpoints when that happens.

You are special lol your vote is special :3

[FrostByte]

My wincon was to have the game end with Helz alive. If I think Helz is town, then I should be trying to win with town. If town loses, Helz is dead, so I lose.

Fair enough

[MattZed]

I currently suspect MM is an Agent, specifically. An agent who watched Helz and saw Helz visit FB and me visit Helz. This is where MM got the idea to cast shade on me for not being town and where he decided to try to pocket FB: FB could very likely be confirmed by Sheriff Helz, so FB isn't dying and it's better to get FB's vote on your side.

The deathnote, "You Failed Doc." is VERY consistent with MM's post today about how he thought my role was a doc-like role, not a "I will die instead of you" role.

[FrostByte]

You are special lol your vote is special :3

You can do better than that

[Frinckles]

I currently suspect MM is an Agent, specifically. An agent who watched Helz and saw Helz visit FB and me visit Helz. This is where MM got the idea to cast shade on me for not being town and where he decided to try to pocket FB: FB could very likely be confirmed by Sheriff Helz, so FB isn't dying and it's better to get FB's vote on your side.

The deathnote, "You Failed Doc." is VERY consistent with MM's post today about how he thought my role was a doc-like role, not a "I will die instead of you" role.

They probably thought I was doctor tbh but idk where the fuck they came up with that theory since I never mentioned one.

[MattZed]

I currently suspect MM is an Agent, specifically. An agent who watched Helz and saw Helz visit FB and me visit Helz. This is where MM got the idea to cast shade on me for not being town and where he decided to try to pocket FB: FB could very likely be confirmed by Sheriff Helz, so FB isn't dying and it's better to get FB's vote on your side.

The deathnote, "You Failed Doc." is VERY consistent with MM's post today about how he thought my role was a doc-like role, not a "I will die instead of you" role.

@Auwt , this is my official prediction that I hope you and the dead/spectator chat are discussing how I'm basically psychic!

[FrostByte]

I currently suspect MM is an Agent, specifically. An agent who watched Helz and saw Helz visit FB and me visit Helz. This is where MM got the idea to cast shade on me for not being town and where he decided to try to pocket FB: FB could very likely be confirmed by Sheriff Helz, so FB isn't dying and it's better to get FB's vote on your side.

The deathnote, "You Failed Doc." is VERY consistent with MM's post today about how he thought my role was a doc-like role, not a "I will die instead of you" role.

If this is true then Frinckles is lying about being roleblocked last night.

[Frinckles]

You can do better than that

Its true though. You play with conviction and you're active.

[MattZed]

They probably thought I was doctor tbh but idk where the fuck they came up with that theory since I never mentioned one.

Doc is TP2, so it's possible they were just thinking Helz is doc, and his death means he failed.

[FrostByte]

They probably thought I was doctor tbh but idk where the fuck they came up with that theory since I never mentioned one.

Then how the FUCK would you have been roleblocked last night?

[Frinckles]

Then how the FUCK would you have been roleblocked last night?

What? You always rb a doc read and kill.

[MattZed]

If this is true then Frinckles is lying about being roleblocked last night.

I'm going to admit I've completely missed Frinckles claiming RB'd.

[FrostByte]

Its true though. You play with conviction and you're active.

I legit thought you were calling me retarded lmao

[Mesk514]

Me in particular? The guy who was widely scumread all the way through day 2? I'm not special, there's no reason he'd pick me out of literally everyone else to try to pocket.



You don't get town points for going against the established narrative. You definitely get scumpoints when that happens.

dude. first of all, you were widely scum read Day 1. There was no way if Helz had a town check on you yesterday that you would have gotten the noose. Day 1 you were widely scum read and almost caught the noose, the only reason you didn't was pretty much because town voted out of policy. I'm not sure if you know this, but sometimes scum try to defend town people to gain points for the long run. Again, yes, it makes him look bad at that moment, but it makes him look much better if you flipped town a lynch or if he died, or in this case... a sheriff got a town check on him 🤷*♀️

not sure how this logic is getting lost in translation, it's pretty straight forward. And by now we should all know Mike is capable of doing such a thing in the first place.

[Frinckles]

I legit thought you were calling me retarded lmao

no, I told myself I'd be nice today. You are fun to play with.

[FrostByte]

What? You always rb a doc read and kill.

Naw bro there could only be an agent or a consort, not both

[MattZed]

I would just shoot my doc suspect in this setup. And why would they think Frinckles is TP2 after the cit claim??

[MattZed]

Granted, if they had a consort, they could just shoot their main TP2 suspect and block their second-best guess, because why let the consort action go to waste?

[Frinckles]

Naw bro there could only be an agent or a consort, not both

Ah well throw out the agent theory matt. Penn and teller showed me some cool tricks last night

[Mesk514]

dude. first of all, you were widely scum read Day 1. There was no way if Helz had a town check on you yesterday that you would have gotten the noose. Day 1 you were widely scum read and almost caught the noose, the only reason you didn't was pretty much because town voted out of policy. I'm not sure if you know this, but sometimes scum try to defend town people to gain points for the long run. Again, yes, it makes him look bad at that moment, but it makes him look much better if you flipped town a lynch or if he died, or in this case... a sheriff got a town check on him 🤷*♀️

not sure how this logic is getting lost in translation, it's pretty straight forward. And by now we should all know Mike is capable of doing such a thing in the first place.

on you **

[FrostByte]

dude. first of all, you were widely scum read Day 1. There was no way if Helz had a town check on you yesterday that you would have gotten the noose. Day 1 you were widely scum read and almost caught the noose, the only reason you didn't was pretty much because town voted out of policy. I'm not sure if you know this, but sometimes scum try to defend town people to gain points for the long run. Again, yes, it makes him look bad at that moment, but it makes him look much better if you flipped town a lynch or if he died, or in this case... a sheriff got a town check on him 路*♀️

not sure how this logic is getting lost in translation, it's pretty straight forward. And by now we should all know Mike is capable of doing such a thing in the first place.

I'm saying the opportunity cost is too high for that to be a logical move to make. The odds of me being relevant later in the game were pretty low considering I almost got lynched d1. That's a huge gamble.

Mike is definitely capable of being a sneaky fucker, that part is beyond question.

[Frinckles]

I would just shoot my doc suspect in this setup. And why would they think Frinckles is TP2 after the cit claim??

Again, no idea. I hardclaimed lol

[FrostByte]

Granted, if they had a consort, they could just shoot their main TP2 suspect and block their second-best guess, because why let the consort action go to waste?

That's kinda where my brain went when Frinckles claimed RB.

[MattZed]

Ah well throw out the agent theory matt. Penn and teller showed me some cool tricks last night

I'm not even sure how to put this in my worldview. I was first thinking "ahah, you have a consort, whom you're going to bus, and they simply didn't act so you could claim you were RB'd." But since it becomes impossible for Mafia to win once one of them are yeeted, this isn't going to matter. (not that you necessarily would read enough to know that when you claimed RB'd)

[FrostByte]

I wanna hear from MM before proceeding.

I'm paranoid and confused now.

Scum is doing a good job of being scum.

[Frinckles]

That's kinda where my brain went when Frinckles claimed RB.

frost, on the subject of high risk moves, do you think scum!frinckles unvotes you when I did?

[MattZed]

Okay, I've given my input. I've already lost this game. I think MM makes the best target for today. If MM flips scum, gg. If MM flips town, I'd go for Mesk because I don't see Frinckles and Mike being teamed.

Y'all have the ability to win this, but I promised myself I wouldn't go tryhard just to get revenge on whoever killed Helz. If @Oberon or @FrostByte need my vote on someone, I'll join. Otherwise, I don't plan on posting for the rest of D3. Ping me if I'm needed. I have no intention of defending myself or my actions if y'all get paranoid.

[FrostByte]

So we've had a consort this whole time and they haven't used their ability until just now? It would track with Hitman not shooting early. Keep the mafia composition WIFOMy and vague. High level thinking.

[FrostByte]

frost, on the subject of high risk moves, do you think scum!frinckles unvotes you when I did?

It's possible. Unvoting when the wagon isn't going anywhere is standard fare.

[Frinckles]

Okay, I've given my input. I've already lost this game. I think MM makes the best target for today. If MM flips scum, gg. If MM flips town, I'd go for Mesk because I don't see Frinckles and Mike being teamed.

Y'all have the ability to win this, but I promised myself I wouldn't go tryhard just to get revenge on whoever killed Helz. If @Oberon or @FrostByte need my vote on someone, I'll join. Otherwise, I don't plan on posting for the rest of D3. Ping me if I'm needed. I have no intention of defending myself or my actions if y'all get paranoid.

o7

[Frinckles]

Mike and MM on, dis gon get gud

[Marshmallow Marshall]

@Oberon , which of the following scum teams is the LEAST likely to you?

MM+Mike
MM+Frinckles
MM+Mesk
Mike+Frinckles
Mike+Mesk
Frinckles+Mesk?

We should be yeeting someone who ISN'T in the least-likely two. We don't need to go for our #1 scum suspect: if we yeet just ONE of the scum, we win. So we just need to maximize our chance of getting at least one with two yeets.

I think Mike+Frinckles is the least likely team, but if you think it's something like MM+Frinckles, then I can join you to yeet Mike today.

Perhaps I'm too dumb for your plays, but... why can't we just go for our #1 scumspects instead of going after people we basically have as "middle reads"? That is counterintuitive, and I do not see the town benefit from doing it. Like, if you think Mike makes no sense with Frinckles but think Frinckles is scum, why the fuck would you want to lynch Mike? Shouldn't that even grant him townpoints by association, assuming Frinckles is scum?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Mike and MM on, dis gon get gud

Oh hey sokoły-- uh, Frinckles! Have you replied to my post showing you didn't explain anything but your Mesk read yet lol? (and by the way, the Mesk read explaination isn't mighty, it just exists but it's weak...)

[Oberon]

just lynch mesk, jesus christ
no need to make this overly complicated. frinck or MM are likely scum partners

[Oberon]

sheep the dead confirmed town and lynch mesk.

[Frinckles]

Oh hey sokoły-- uh, Frinckles! Have you replied to my post showing you didn't explain anything but your Mesk read yet lol? (and by the way, the Mesk read explaination isn't mighty, it just exists but it's weak...)

Game = solved
Ladder points = in route to me
Scum morale = all time low
Oberon = ???

[Frinckles]

just lynch mesk, jesus christ
no need to make this overly complicated. frinck or MM are likely scum partners

? Why

[Frinckles]

Like the only thing scum can do is push a frinckles+mesk team and they aren't even doing that lol

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I'm not sure I follow. We're going to win if our next two yeets catch a scum, or lose if our next two yeets are both town. We don't get any extra info between them, because scum is going to kill one of the confirmed players.

So we want to yeet two people that give us the BIGGEST chance of getting at least one scum. This is a little different from yeeting our top two scum picks:

FOR EXAMPLE, assume we knew that the scumteams were Mesk-Frinckles OR MM-Mike. Let's say we all really think Mesk and Frinckles are looking the most scummy. That doesn't mean we should yeet Mesk and Frinckles! Instead, we should yeet, say, Mesk and MM so that we're guaranteed to hit AT LEAST one scum.

That's true, but it's also completely pointless to say right now, because in your example world, if we had lynched, say, Mesk today, tomorrow we wouldn't be lynching Frinckles because the association wouldn't work. This shouldn't affect the fact that we should lynch our top scumread today at all...? If it happens to be wrong, then it's obvious that pairings including the flipped town as scum are wrong, so they are to be eliminated. No need for weird shenanigans.

[Oberon]

Helz got taken out because he scumread the right people. Mesk was his top scum read. I’m always lynching Mesk today

[Oberon]

Mesk being scum makes perfect sense people.

[Frinckles]

Helz got taken out because he scumread the right people. Mesk was his top scum read. I’m always lynching Mesk today

Helz literally hammered an afk citizen what the fuck are you talking about?