S-FM 317: Eternia [LADDER]

[FrostByte]

This roster hasn't been super active. Right now it's morning in NA and everyone is probably being productive.

roster hasn't been super active around this time**** is what I mean

[Oberon]

Has your brain developed object permanence yet? Asking for science.

No but this post just did that

[Mike]

roster hasn't been super active around this time**** is what I mean

Ok will log on later then, I have church and eod is during church so I may not be on at EOD. I will park my vote on skip to to allow our sheriff check another check. Also should sheriff out if the have a red check when it may be wrong becise of mafia buss driver.

Another thing that bothers me is this if mafia does have a hitman and did hold it and sence no one was role blocked they may have

Illusionist
You may clean a target at night.
Cleaned targets leave no last will and their role is not revealed.
You will learn the identity of the cleaned target after they are killed.
This ability has 3 charges.
The clean wears off at the end of the following night.

[Mike]

Oberon outed as TPR 1 day 1. Yet he was not killed hmm ok and he was not roleblocked.

If I was mafia I would be scared of a Lookout. If I could not kill him I would RB him 100% with no fear of dieing.

So I belive mafia does not have a Role block. If they have a kill it is prob The janitor role. They may not have killed becise of possible BG that makes sence. Hitman only has 2 kills maybe they trying to figure out the. TPR’s to kill the confirmed. But if we do have a sheriff this is an auto. Because we skip let sheriff get checks now we don’t know if mafia has buss driver. Meaning if the don’t they can’t kill or else they put themselfs as the sheriff checks are real.thai is beautiful. If they do have a buss driver they don’t know who the sheriff is checking but the sheriff don’t know who is being bussed. Then we back at square one.

[MattZed]

Definitely not finishing the Mike ISO before EoD. I have to head off IRL soon. At about 100 posts into the ISO, I'm leaning a little on Mike being town, but I'm still confused. He posts A LOT, but a lot of his posts either don't make sense or show he's missing part of the setup. He aggressively pursues any possible "slip," and he changes his reads when it turns out the "slip" has a good explanation or can't actually be a slip. But after all that, I don't at all agree with his reads. If I had to be on the spot right now, I'd give him a townlean as a confused townie trying his best to make sense of what he's seeing, but there's still a lot about Mike I just don't *get*. I should have a clearer picture once I get through his D2 posts.

This is my last post of the day.

[Oberon]

FB for the record if you’re town and your defense is just insults literally never play this game again

[Mike]

I am starting to think mafia is better informed becuse they know there roles. Also the tpr 2 is better informed becise of knowing there role.

If you are sheriff consider mafia having buss driver. If you are buss driver or medic or BG consider mafia having a hitman.

If mafia has hitman they most likely have the janstor.
If mafia has buss driver I am guessing agent.

I can not see a world mafia has an RB and did not RB Oberon who could have been Lookout.

I am leaning to sheriff because with Oberon being Journalist I would suspect town have some invest.

So my world is this

Town Journalist/Sheriff or BG/Soul Swaper/Doctor
Mike
Oberon
MM
Helz
FB

Neutral Mesk exe target me( blind tunnel on me )

Scum Agent/Soul Ripper or Illusionist/Hitman
Freckles
MattZed

This is based off last night no feedback from anyone.

[Mike]

Definitely not finishing the Mike ISO before EoD. I have to head off IRL soon. At about 100 posts into the ISO, I'm leaning a little on Mike being town, but I'm still confused. He posts A LOT, but a lot of his posts either don't make sense or show he's missing part of the setup. He aggressively pursues any possible "slip," and he changes his reads when it turns out the "slip" has a good explanation or can't actually be a slip. But after all that, I don't at all agree with his reads. If I had to be on the spot right now, I'd give him a townlean as a confused townie trying his best to make sense of what he's seeing, but there's still a lot about Mike I just don't *get*. I should have a clearer picture once I get through his D2 posts.

This is my last post of the day.

Wow is is truly ISO ing me. I honestly thought he was full of crap. Why would a mafia spend the time doing this? I know I am all over the place when I am town. When I am mafia I have it all planed out and it flows. Go read my town game when I was Fred. I was confirmed Viggy and town was treating me just like town is treating Oberon becise he does not make a lot of sence. But that is town. Town is uninformed. People forget that.

I know this is going to get me scum read but writing this also got me to think about Helz. So well so smooth so Town.

Dam this game is getting harder. Matt is all over the place he was not marking sence to me so I scum read him for it. What is he is town. Fuck me all these what iffs.

[FrostByte]

FB for the record if you’re town and your defense is just insults literally never play this game again

You, mr CLAIM NEUTRAL AS PTR TO GAUGE REACTIONS AND LITERALLY LOSE THE GAME FOR TOWN have the fucking nerve to tell me I shouldn't play FM?

You? Who is literally an obstacle for town every fucking time you roll town? And literally no trouble at all to scum hunt when you're scum? You're telling ME that?

Holy fuck the irony is gonna give me an aneurysm.

When you have something to say that's worth more effort to defend against I give you the effort. You flip flopping constantly isn't worth more than the effort it takes to type a few words out.

[Mike]

Well I am off to church I don’t think I will be able to be back before EOD.

[Mesk514]

lmfao outted scum, I don't think so.
Just check me. As one of the first people. Fairly simple

[Oberon]

I am not going to lose to someone who continuously insults me. I would rather lose to MattZed, Frinckles than win with you lol

[Mesk514]

Sheriff, check me or Mike tonight. Easy. Let's get this out of the way.

[FrostByte]

I am not going to lose to someone who continuously insults me. I would rather lose to MattZed, Frinckles than win with you lol

You? Throw a game? Who'd have thought?

[FrostByte]

Sheriff, check me or Mike tonight. Easy. Let's get this out of the way.

tp2 could be Doc, Sheriff, Bodyguard or Bus Driver.

[Mesk514]

tp2 could be Doc, Sheriff, Bodyguard or Bus Driver.

Eh, apparently we're working under the assumption there's a sheriff. The game supposedly solves itself, which I do see. So whatever. If there's a sheriff, check me or Mike ffs

[Auwt]

Skip Day (3 [L-2]):
Oberon, Mike, FrostByte
Mike (2 [L-3]):
Frinckles, Mesk514
MattZed (1 [L-4]):
Marshmallow Marshall

Nobody got voted off.

NIGHT 2 HAS STARTED AND WILL END IN :

• 00

• 00

• 00

• 00

DAYS HOURS MINUTES SECONDS

Remember to send your night action !

[Auwt]

S-FM Eternia

DAY 3

@Helz has died this night !
Their role was : Sheriff

A death note and a last will have been found next to their corpse :

Spoiler : Death note :

You Failed Doc.

Spoiler : Helz's last will :

N1 I checked Frostbyte who came back as town.

If there is no Soul Ripper who got lucky and interfered with my target (which I find very likely) this puts 3 scum between Frinckles, MarshMallow, Mesk and Mike.

My strongest scum read is Mesk

If you are reading this I am sorry. I was kinda sad when I saw my rolecard because I knew I would be a target no matter what given I was town and scum are informed and figured if I go full on obvious town scum may cit read me and TPR hunt.

Best of luck guys. It was a fun game. I am sorry I did not have time to really tear into it.

BREAKING NEWS :

Another newspaper delivery has just arrived, here is what has been said :

Spoiler : News :

sheriff here

n1 frostbyte town

PLAYERS CURRENTLY ALIVE :

@Oberon
@FrostByte
@Frinckles
@Marshmallow Marshall
@Mesk514
@Mike
@MattZed

PLAYERS THAT HAVE FAINTED :

@Dark Magician (Citizen)
@Helz (Sheriff)

DAY 3 HAS STARTED, AND WILL END IN :

• 00

• 00

• 00

• 00

DAYS HOURS MINUTES SECONDS

7 players alive, 4 votes to hammer.

[MattZed]

Welp, I've already lost. I was Helz' Holy Guardian Spirit.

I tried to get him to act less towny, but to no avail. I certainly wasn't expecting him to give such a strong Sheriff perspective D2. (I used my protection N1, figuring that was the most likely night to kill him)

I'm going to continue to help town to avenge Helz and take the scum down with me, but since I can't win don't expect a lot of activity.

[MattZed]

My ISO on Mike, for what it's worth:

Spoiler : Mike ISO :

NOTE: not every post summarized, just ones that I felt important

60 - misunderstands mafia chat
63 - tries to catch Frinckles in TMI
69 - insists the TMI is good for catching mafia
72 - scumleans me, Oberon, Mesk, Frinckles, MM; townleads Helz
74 - prods me
81 - further prod on me, with paranoia
84 - joke about how Mafia could misyeet him?
87 - says vote on Oberon is not fake
90 - was reaction testing Helz
97 - vote recap
98 - thinks he might be tunneling Oberon AT L-3
*157 - MM is a scumlean because "Every time I give you a hard town read you flip scum"
161 - doesn't care how Helz reads him because Helz is his top town
164 - updated reads on Helz, me, Oberon, Mesk, MM
168 - calls on Frinckles to post more
*171 - asks for Helz to not give reads because he townreads Helz
181 - scumreads Frinckles and Oberon; strongly things MM and Frinckles are not on the same team
*182 - asks Helz for his read on me
224 - unvotes Oberon based on his responses; (NOTE: this is long before Oberon claims TP1) paranoia about townreads
*241 - strong low poster prodding, post of his thoughts on everyone else
*242 - votes MM (seems like meta; not explained)
*256 - votes Frinckles for claiming cit at L-3 (with also a fake vote from Oberon)
302 - insists again Frinckles did not have pressure when he claimed
315 - advocates yeeting among cit claims for best chance of finding scum
334 - mafia team speculation
*418 - about the 10th post on why he thinks Frinckles is scum; basically all of them are for Frinckles claiming cit
431 - really against TPRs claiming
446 - joins pressure train on FrostByte, despite townreading him; inadvertently puts FB at L-1
474 - unvotes FB for his response seeming like it came from a town perspective
*529 - votes Frinckles AGAIN, but hasn't added anything other than the cit claim to the reasoning
540 - yet another post, many of which I've skipped, saying that he scumreads Frinckles for claiming cit at L-3
587 - votes DM
620 - tells me he thinks my vote on FB is a mistake
650 - joins Oberon train
665 - votes DM
*676 - says his vote for DM isn't just policy like everyone else's; he's also voting DM because DM hasn't contributed
723 - laments that "All we are doing is outing our TPR."
-----Day 2 Start-----
854 - again insists that Frinckles scumreading him for his vote after Frinckle's claim is just OMGUS
876 - calls for town to give night feedback, but not feedback that would out TP2
888 - thinks Frinckles voting him is a no-reason tunnel
938 - misinterprets Frinckles' joke as being a VH hardclaim
967 - is really turning on me
970 - puts me as a top scumread with Frinckles
977 - my post about him+MM being partners doesn't make sense to him
988 - is happy he saved FB
1015 - is very confident
1117 - joins the skipfest with Helz

Mike has been very broadly been doing ONE thing for most of the game: tunneling Frinckles because Frinckles claimed Cit at L-3. There's the occasional responding to matters, but he's just so focused on Frinckles. He mostly stopped looking at other people (although his townreads on MM and FB strengthened) Who else is scum to him? Me, because I'm "defending" Frinckles.

Between "town tunnel" and "Mike is scum," I have to say I think Mike is scum. The tunnel on Frinckles doesn't make too much sense: he'll reconsider an Oberon tunnel after a bit, but not Frinckles? It's a *great* excuse for content: just keep posting the same read over and over, and you don't need to provide anything else. He's latched on to ONE person, and he hasn't shown many signs of looking around for other scum OR digging into Frinckles' post history to find reasons he's scum other than the claim (which isn't really AI, tbh) OR that he's being OMGUS. Highest poster in the game and his main attention has been shallowly on one person? Sounds fake to me.

[MattZed]

Helz didn't mention he was kidnapped, so he must have been killed by a Hitman. There's 1 kill left, and 3 of us confirmable non-mafia: Oberon, FrostByte,(TP2 can't be soul switcher) and me.

There are two scum and two cits in: Mesk, Mike, Frinckles, MM.

[MattZed]

I have a LOT of trouble seeing a world in which MM is town. Mike and Frinckles would have to be a team (they both drove each other to L-1, so this is lunacy) OR Mesk is scum.

[MattZed]

@Oberon , @FrostByte , I'll sheep either of you you want. But the win is basically guaranteed at this point:

Assume AT LEAST one of Frinckles/Mike is town. A SvS in their interactions here are EXTREMELY unlikely. Thus, at least one of Mesk/MM are scum. Yeet them both, and there is AT MOST one scum left. Then we yeet everyone outside of me/Oberon/FrostByte. Scum can kill at most one of us, and never gain majority.

I really think it's MM, but you don't even need to agree with me. As long as you agree Frinckles v. Mike isn't a SvS and agree that I'm on town's side, the game is mechanically solved.

-vote Marshmallow Marshall

[MattZed]

Ironically, the scum have basically lost this game by choosing to kill instead of WIFOM'ing that there's a Soul Ripper.

[MattZed]

MM, Mike, Frinckles, and Mesk are getting yeeted in some order. The ONLY way town can lose is if that order puts the two scum last.

[MattZed]

So the game is solved, you're welcome. This has been MattZed, winning the game for town and losing it for himself.

Going 0-2 coming out of retirement. :<

[Mesk514]

damn, Helz's strongest scum read but my reads were pretty spot on, frostbyte is town and MZ was the neut...lololololol

I can honestly see a world where Frinckles and Mike can be both scum, driving each other to L-1 doesn't really guarantee town points, but eh, it certainly lessens the chance of them both being scum.

I'd rather Mike over MM... your iso explains it MZ.

[MattZed]

In case someone isn't believing my claim, I've crumbed it A LOT. I have OPENLY neutral slipped several times (calling for cit/TP1/TP2 claims, never considering benign neut, I've considered the possibility of someone being Vengeful Harpy, etc) I used variations of the word "Holy" "Guard" and "Spirit" in posts directed at Helz, sometimes doing so with really awkward phrasing. I honestly stopped keeping track of all of them, but the posts include 18, 26, 52, 55, 57, 127, 151, 386, 963, 964. I said in post 16 that Helz was "my peek." If you're seriously doubting my claim I can dig up more posts where I did things specifically directed at Helz to let him know.

I determined fairly early on Helz was town, so I needed to side with town to win. For those of you townreading me, THAT'S BECAUSE I WAS BASICALLY TOWN. I just had the harder wincon that town needed to win AND Helz needed to be alive for it, which was basically impossible.

[Mesk514]

In case someone isn't believing my claim, I've crumbed it A LOT. I have OPENLY neutral slipped several times (calling for cit/TP1/TP2 claims, never considering benign neut, I've considered the possibility of someone being Vengeful Harpy, etc) I used variations of the word "Holy" "Guard" and "Spirit" in posts directed at Helz, sometimes doing so with really awkward phrasing. I honestly stopped keeping track of all of them, but the posts include 18, 26, 52, 55, 57, 127, 151, 386, 963, 964. I said in post 16 that Helz was "my peek." If you're seriously doubting my claim I can dig up more posts where I did things specifically directed at Helz to let him know.

I determined fairly early on Helz was town, so I needed to side with town to win. For those of you townreading me, THAT'S BECAUSE I WAS BASICALLY TOWN. I just had the harder wincon that town needed to win AND Helz needed to be alive for it, which was basically impossible.

eh, I picked up on that, which was why I was trying to point out that neuts can have town motivations as well

[MattZed]

damn, Helz's strongest scum read but my reads were pretty spot on, frostbyte is town and MZ was the neut...lololololol

I can honestly see a world where Frinckles and Mike can be both scum, driving each other to L-1 doesn't really guarantee town points, but eh, it certainly lessens the chance of them both being scum.

I'd rather Mike over MM... your iso explains it MZ.

Yeah, but in the world where scum is you+MM or you+Frinckles, that's exactly how you win. Yeet Mike, and then yeet the last person who isn't your partner.

Unless you think it's possible Mike vs Frinckles is SvS, MM (or you) is a much more logical choice for next yeet.

[MattZed]

eh, I picked up on that, which was why I was trying to point out that neuts can have town motivations as well

Thank-you. I've never tried actively slipping a non-town role, so I had no idea how obvious it was.

[Mesk514]

Yeah, but in the world where scum is you+MM or you+Frinckles, that's exactly how you win. Yeet Mike, and then yeet the last person who isn't your partner.

Unless you think it's possible Mike vs Frinckles is SvS, MM (or you) is a much more logical choice for next yeet.

i have no rebuttal for the world where frinckles and I are scum, cause from your PoV, yes that makes sense.... But the world where MM and I are scum is a world I never would allow myself to be a part of

[MattZed]

i have no rebuttal for the world where frinckles and I are scum, cause from your PoV, yes that makes sense.... But the world where MM and I are scum is a world I never would allow myself to be a part of

Which is why you should be 100% behind MM first if you’re town.

[Mesk514]

Which is why you should be 100% behind MM first if you’re town.

I'm behind it, my issue is I didn't read his as scum with teammates. I thought he was more of a neut than you...

I'm pretty much willing to lynch Mike, MM, or Frinckles, but again, I just didn't see MM being a scum with teammates.

[MattZed]

I'm behind it, my issue is I didn't read his as scum with teammates. I thought he was more of a neut than you...

I'm pretty much willing to lynch Mike, MM, or Frinckles, but again, I just didn't see MM being a scum with teammates.

... if you’re town, there are TWO possibilities: MM is scum or the scum are Frinckles+Mike

[Mesk514]

or the scum are Frinckles+Mike

Which I've continuously said is entirely possible :P

[Mesk514]

but then again, MM hasn't done much besides discredit you... although, I guess you did have something to discredit even if your intentions were genuine.

[Mesk514]

@FrostByte my good sir, your input?

[Mesk514]

As a side note, I have 3 papers to write over the course of the week, so tonight I'll be pulling an all nighter. So while I will basically be pretty busy, I do plan on being around watching the thread if anyone wants to participate with me

[FrostByte]

Confirming me is good for town but godamnit I like being scummy. Sitting right on the edge of scumlean/townlean is the most fun for me. Now I'm just boring old confirmed citizen.

[Mesk514]

Confirming me is good for town but godamnit I like being scummy. Sitting right on the edge of scumlean/townlean is the most fun for me. Now I'm just boring old confirmed citizen.

good old too scummy to be scum

[FrostByte]

@FrostByte my good sir, your input?

I like you, Mesk, but I'm inclined to follow our Sheriff.

[FrostByte]

good old too scummy to be scum

I fucking love it, it's so much fun

[FrostByte]

I'm gonna spend some time ISOing interactions between a few different pairs to try to out scumpairs. I'd advise anyone town or town adjacent to do the same.

Not gonna immediately jump on a Mesk wagon because Helz is smirt but fallible. Gonna double check his work.

[Mesk514]

I like you, Mesk, but I'm inclined to follow our Sheriff.

eh, not gonna judge you on that one.... but his scum read on me was pretty much cause I put him as a neutral. It was pretty much a how dare I read his as neutral cause I was clearly supposed to read him as the TPR.

looks like someone else picked up on that one before I did 😂

[FrostByte]

(I used my protection N1, figuring that was the most likely night to kill him)

So you have one protection night and blew your load night 1? Why?

[FrostByte]

I was clearly supposed to read him as the TPR.

looks like someone else picked up on that one before I did 

lmfao you're right. I was trying to WIFOM a little bit EoD saying Sheriff wasn't confirmed but I had a strong suspicion Helz was Sheriff. It just kind of got brought up at some point? Or Helz softclaimed or something.

If you end up flipping scum I'm gonna thank you profusely for shitting on established metas. Maybe people will fuck off with that shit because it's not useful if your read target has 80+ IQ.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Copypasting my last will written overnight:

Spoiler : Last will :

After re-reading Mattzed's ISO a bit, I conclude I may have been tunnelled a little bit, and that he doesn't look that bad. Still nothing that makes me say "He definetly is town", and he DEFINETLY shouldn't be given a free town pass for "being helpful", but he may actually not be that scummy. Like in this post:

Tbh I missed the post you painted red. (a post that came AFTER my vote) My scumread on you goes slightly down for you giving a reason, but it's still a weak reason that only came out after I called you out on it.

I cut down the post to address the critical point, but if you actually WANT the context, let's have it:

WHERE. Where in any of this are you saying WHY you think FrostByte is being honest?

You've doubled down on your misreps again. "Ohoho MattZed cut down one of my incriminating posts, let me suggest he's leaving out crucial context and hope no one checks there's actually nothing exonerating in what he left out."

I really doubt he's intentionally missing what I had just said, because it'd be too blatant. I already more explained that a bit in the post Mattzed was quoting, but to clarify: I was saying both Frostbyte and Frinckles looked honest in their pushes against eachother, but that Frostbyte was aggressively pushing a case he seemed to believe in while Frinckles was defending himself. Aggressively pushing a case you created without being provoked and doing that with faith and perhaps a tunnelly fashion very often comes from town rather than from scum, since scum don't have actual faith in their pushes being righteous; that makes Frostbyte honest and towny. On the other hand, Frinckles was defending himself from Frostbyte's push. It can be town defending themselves, but it also can be scum thinking they were caught for the wrong reasons. Therefore, Frinckles gets much less townpoints than Frostbyte. In hindsight, what Frinckles did might even have been relatively NAI.
If what you don't understand is why their attacks on eachother seemed honest to me, it's because they're going full speed at eachother with visible intent to see the other flip scum or at the very least be proved wrong (the latter would be more like what I think Frinckles was doing).

Helz still doesn't ping me the wrong way and only has good points going for him, but as Mesk correctly said, it doesn't mean he's confirmed town, and his logical and helpful behavior shouldn't grant him a locked town slot.

Speaking of Mesk, I liked her list of reads (although I don't necessarily agree with everything, like the Mike read, I can see where she's coming from, especially since she doesn't know Mike's meta) and her analysis of Helz. In other words, I think she has a town perspective, which grants her quite a lot of townpoints.

Now of course this flip and Mattzed's claim change things lol. There can't be both a Sheriff and a Doctor, so Doctor can be immediatly ruled out. Mattzed being non-town but still townie makes sense, and I have the clear memory of his "Is this how town Helz is like, logical and pro-town" (paraphrased) post during early D1, so I'm ready to believe him. And since we have a Hitman in the scum team (Kidnapper is to exclude because I dare suppose Helz would have put "I was jailed" in his last will), I'm ready to say Mattzed is a relatively pro-town force we can play with, and am supporting his existence among us.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I just thought about something

@auwt, if the Hitman targets someone being protected by the Holy Guardian Spirit, one of his two kill charges is used even though the target does not die, correct?

If so, that means scum cannot kill anymore

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I just thought about something

[COLOR="#00FF00" @Auwt , if the Hitman targets someone being protected by the Holy Guardian Spirit, one of his two kill charges is used even though the target does not die, correct?[/COLOR]

If so, that means scum cannot kill anymore

@Auwt I hope this doesn't double ping you lol but I don't think the first ping worked.

[COLOR="#00FF00" @Auwt , if the Hitman targets someone being protected by the Holy Guardian Spirit, one of his two kill charges is used even though the target does not die, correct?[/COLOR]