NeverUnlucky: 1-S2-1-2326703, Nox: 1-S2-1-1652783, Aroith: 1-S2-1-697408

[Reverse Cowgirl]

Account Name: NeverUnlucky
Account ID: 1-S2-1-2326703
In-Game Name: Armando Rizzo

Crimes Committed: Cheating/Griefing

Your Account Name: Keaton
Summary:

NeverUnlucky (#6) rolls Marshall. At the start of Day One, #6 whispers #9 (Bodyguard) "Marshall zzz". At this point in the game, there is no possible manner by which #6 could have known that he was whispering another town player. Either #6 is cheating and has knowledge of what #9's role is, or he is going into the game with the intention of colluding with a known friend (Note that #6 calls the BG by his account name prior to any names being identified on Day Two). In either case, this is an example of an individual attempting to disrupt the normal flow of the game. Note that this intentional pre-game collusion resulted in the Mass Murderer's demise on Night One.

I would classify the remainder of #6's play as griefing. He made the choice to reveal himself as Marshall on Day Two despite there being a confirmed Veteran (#2 - Doctor was killed visiting the alert Veteran on Night One) that could have collected town roles. He followed this choice up by choosing to lynch a player he knew was Jester and subsequently announced such to the town. He then attempting to lead a lynch against the Sheriff saying "8 IS MAFIA" which prompted the town to stop following his leads.

The game ended in a Triad victory. This is a simple case of a toxic player attempting to ruin the game for other people.

For completeness note that the following Role Quit crime also took place within this game:

Account Name: Nox
Account ID: 1-S2-1-1652783
In-Game Name: Angelo

Crimes Committed: Role-Quitting
Summary:

Nox #14 rolls Investigator. Day One he says "Investigator sucks, inves out-" and quits.

[Aroith]

Account Name: Nox
Account ID: 1-S2-1-1652783
In-Game Name: Angelo

Crimes Committed: Role Quitting

Your Account Name: Aroith
Summary: This player gets Investigator, joins the game and says "investigator sucks, inves out-" and role quits...

As a side note, I have a question about Player #1 (Sailor Venus) in this replay. He is a confirmed Veteran after n1 and the Marshall reveals to group lynch d2. He seems to be upset with the fact that he can no longer "lead" town since the Marshall has revealed and he refuses to vote with the Marshall. This essentially loses town the game by refusing to vote because Player #11, (white privelege) who was the Marshall's target, won the game for the Triad.

14 rq.SC2Replay

[Mesk514]

SC ID VERIFICATION
Never Unlucky - Correct: 1-S2-1-2326703
Nox - Correct: 1-S2-1-1652783

Players Added to Report
Aroith - 1-S2-1-697408

Respective Hotkeys
Never Unlucky: 5
Nox: CTRL +5
Aroith: 3

Was the Game Result altered?
Yes. the Triad had won.

Summary
Nox:
Nox (#14) roles Investigator
Day 1:
#14: Investigator sucks, inves out-
*#14 has left the game*

Never Unlucky & Aroith:
Never Unlucky(#6) roles Marshall
Aroith(#9) roles Bodyguard

Day 1:
#6 PM's #9: marshall zzz
#9 PM's #6: protecting you until i die

Night 1:
#6 was attacked and was defended by a bodyguard.

Day 2:
#6: Aroith's a legend. Holy shit.
#6: Thanks, fam.
#6: Aroith, pause the game if you're reporting 14
*#6 Reveals as Marshall*
#1: well i'm confirmed
#6: Roles, last wills.
#1: why would you reveal?
#7 PM's #6: bus driver here N1- 9&15
#10 PM's #6: vig let me know who to shoot
#1 PM's #6: Confirmed Veteran. Killed Doc last night.
#3 PM's #6: Lookout N1- 9(visited by 7&12)
#11 PM's #6: coroner
#8 PM's #6: Sheriff
#15 PM's #6: escort
#5 PM's #6: meme
*#6 votes #5*
#8 PM's #6: N1- 5
#1: Marshall reveals when theres a confirmed town
*#5 is lynched*
#6: Yeah
#6: It's what I did, 5 was Jester btw.
*#6 votes #8*
#6: 8 is Mafia
*#6 votes #11
6: 11 claimed coroner

#5 was a Jester

Night 2:
#6 Updates his Last Will:
11= Mafia
1,3,7 = TOWN

#6 was killed that night.

Dead chat:
I can't even...
1 just gamethrowing by not voting 11
what 1 did was griefing
1 griefed


Never Unlucky openly admitting he allowed the town to lynch the Jester discredit him and made Town not trust his judgement.

Previous Offenses
Never Unlucky - Game Throwing:https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...1-S2-1-2326703
Nox - Griefing ('14): https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...1-S2-1-1652783
Aroith: None

Player Offenses
Never Unlucky: Griefing/In Game Communication
Nox: Role Quitting
Aroith: In Game Communication

Recommended Action
Never Unlucky:2x Watch-list
Nox: On Hold
Aroith: On Hold

Additional Notes
Thank You For your Report.

[Reverse Cowgirl]

Here is another replay showing NeverUnlucky whispering his role to Aroith on Day One. Note that they even queue into this game in adjacent spots. They go on to share vital information that they otherwise would not have that alters the flow of the game. Town ends up winning as a result.

If you refer to day 3, they clearly admit to collaborating in their whispers to one another. NeverUnlucky seems to be under the impression that this should not count as an offense because they are collaborating within the game and not via Skype or Facebook.

It is irrefutable that NeverUnlucky's intention is to give himself (or Aroith) some form of unfair advantage. He makes no effort to deny this. The fact of the matter is that this type of play unfairly impacts the results of any game in which they participate.

[Mesk514]

SC ID VERIFICATION
Never Unlucky - Correct: 1-S2-1-2326703
Aroith - Correct: 1-S2-1-697408

Respective Hotkeys
Never Unlucky: E
Aroith: 1

Was the Game Result altered?
Yes. Town had an unfair advantage.

Summary
Never Unlucky (#3) rolls Sheriff
Aroith (#2) rolls Jailor.

Day 1

#3 PM's #2: sheriff zzz
#2 PM's #3: who shall i take advantage of in jail today?
#3 PM's #2: i don't know, lol.
#15: is 2 never unlucky?
#15: if so I'm reporting you again
#3 PM's #2: wtf is 15 saying?

Night 1:
#3 targets #9
#2 has a chat with #1, who claims investigator

Day 2:
#3 PM's #2: who did you jail; what did you get?
#2 PM's #3: i jailed 1 and he claims invest
#15 PM's #3: You are NeverUnlucky, yes? Did you PM Aroith telling him your role Day 1 again?
#3 PM's #15: yes and yes
#15 PM's #3: you are aware i reported you for that right?
#3 PM's #15: it is not an offence, lol.
#3 PM's #15: it will be ignored.


Night 2:
#3 targets #5
#2 has a chat with #14, who claims doctor

Day 3:
#3 PM's #2: 15 said he reported you and I zz
#2 PM's #3: for?
#3 PM's #2: for pming you my role day 1
#3 PM's #2: dw, it's not an offense
#2 PM's #3: is that illegal?
#3 PM's #2: no
#3 PM's #2: unless i do it via Skype/FB or w/e
#2 PM's #3: i suppose it's a choice to give away your role to someone knowing they could use it against you
#3 PM's #2: You blacklist evil roles
#2 PM's #3: ;)
#3 PM's #2: and prefer begning/town
#3 PM's #2: creating a circle day 1 is not illegal kek

Night 3:
#3 targets #1
#3 updates his last will:
N1:15 NS// N2:5 NS// N3:1
1= Consigliere

#2 has a chat with #12. The confirmed Mayor.

Day 4:
#3 PM's #12: 1 is mafia. 1 is consigliere.
#3 PM's #12: 1 is mafia.
#2 PM'S #3: jailed queued and ready for execution
#3 PM's #2: who did you jail? no gf kill either you jailed him or he found sk
#2 PM's #3: I jailed 12 to save him
#3 PM's #12: 1 is mafia, get him tomorrow. Now my role is useless because can't detect gf

Night 4:
#3 targets #8
#3 updates his last will:
N1:15 NS// N2:5 NS// N3:1 Maf N4: 8
1= Consigliere 8= GF

#2 performs no night action


The part of the game is question is over.


Previous Offenses
Never Unlucky - Game Throwing: https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...1-S2-1-2326703
Griefing & In Game Communication: https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...646#post635646
Aroith - In Game Communication: https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...646#post635646



Player Offenses
Never Unlucky: Cheating
Aroith: Cheating

Recommended Action
Never Unlucky:4x Watch-list
Aroith: 2x Watch-list

Additional Notes
Thank you for this report. It seems that Never Unlucky is under the impression that just because he's communicating in game is acceptable. This is in fact false. This thread in particular was also in discussion between Aroith and Never Unlucky during the setup phase of the game.

[Reverse Cowgirl]

Here is a 3rd save in which NeverUnlucky whispers his role to Aroith on Day One. Although they end up being on different teams for this game, they still continue to share information with one another via whispers throughout the game.

I want to emphasize that these are just the games that I'm witnessing first hand and that there are likely countless more occurrences. It's clear from the conversations within these replays that NeverUnlucky shows no remorse for his actions and that he clearly intends to continue to engage in this behavior indefinitely.

These players are going to continue to engage in this behavior until they are banned or until someone steps in to inform them that this type of collaboration is cheating and fundamentally impacts the flow of the game.

[DarknessB]

Reverse Cowgirl, we appreciate all of these reports that you are bringing to our attention, but can you please start a new threads for each report that you submit? That will make it easier for us to process each of them separately because ordinarily, once a report thread is processed it gets moved and finalized.

[Reverse Cowgirl]

I apologize. I thought it might be easier to keep them within the same thread given that they related to the same continuous issue. Do you want me to do that with the above additional report (the 3rd report) now or just going forward on any additional reports? Whatever is most convenient for your review process.

[DarknessB]

I apologize. I thought it might be easier to keep them within the same thread given that they related to the same continuous issue. Do you want me to do that with the above additional report (the 3rd report) now or just going forward on any additional reports? Whatever is most convenient for your review process.

We've done it in different ways at different times, but if we're talking about games that occurred at different times, different threads is somewhat preferred just so we can have the original report approved and punished before moving onto the next one. If we're talking about like 2-3 games in a row on the same night, then it's more of a judgment call.

No need to move the report you posted -- we'll take a look at it from this thread. Appreciate your helping to keep the game clean!

[Mesk514]

SC ID VERIFICATION
Never Unlucky - Correct: 1-S2-1-2326703
Aroith - Correct: 1-S2-1-697408

Respective Hotkeys
Never Unlucky: CTRL + 1
Aroith: CTRL + 4

Was the Game Result altered?
Yes, Never Unlucky helped #7 secure a spot in a critical moment in the game. Aroith used the knowledge of Never Unluckys role to set him up and have him killed. Although the Cult had won, Never Unlucky made it possible for Aroith to be alive when it came down to him being converted.

Summary
Never Unlucky (#10) rolls Escort.
Aroith (#7) rolls MassMurderer

Day 1:
#10 PM's #7: escort

Night 1:
#10 goes to roleblock #2.
#7 performs a killing spree at his house.

Day 2:
#5 is put on trial & guilty'd
#10: inno he's my cult buddy topkek
#7: cult dead then?
#12: RIP me
#10: nah im here

#5 was a Cultist

Night 2:
#10 goes to roleblock #14
#7 goes to preform a killing spree at #10's house.

Day 3:
#10: i suggest we get 14
Never Unlucky Updates his Last Will: N1: 2 // N2- 14 No MM kills
#10: OK WE GET 14
$13: dammit escort im innocent
#14: role
#14: or i hang your shit
#7 PM's #10: what do you think he is?
#10 PM's #7: mm, no mm kills when rbed
#10 PM's #7: idk tho
#3: 10 inno'd on cult
*#3 votes #10*
#10: my good cult buddy
#3: ok
#3: u die now
#10: 12 can vouch for me zzz
#7: lol
#10: he prolly checked me
#3: i mean i bet u made 12 cult now
#3: imo
#3: imho
#3: or 7
#7: ITS A CONSPIRACY
#3: get 10
#7: damn u right
#7: i converted 12
*#12 votes #10*
#3: wtf town, i lynched 5 the cultist. now let's lynch 10.
*#12 cancels his vote*
#10: now we're 4 cultist
#3: wtf town, i lynched 5 the cultist. now let's lynch 10.
#3: wtf town, i lynched 5 the cultist. now let's lynch 10.
#3: wtf town, i lynched 5 the cultist. now let's lynch 10.
#3: wtf town, i lynched 5 the cultist. now let's lynch 10.
#7: can i join?
#3: READ BETWEEN THE LINES
#3: vigi shoot 10 tonight
#12: hmm
*#12 votes #14*
#3: VIGI SHOOT 3

Night 3:
#10 goes to roleblock #1
#7 performs a killing spree at 14's house

Day 4
*#12 died, he was a sheriff*
#10: shit couldn't converted 12
#3: it's ok 10
#3: town doesn't lynch sarcastic people
#3: you can stop trying now
#10: trying?
#3: also, why did u random 14
*#11 The Mayor has revealed himself*
#10 PM's #11: N1: 2 // N2- 14 No MM kills // N3- 1
#10: 14 is MM
#10: it's not random
#7 PM's #11: doc N1- 3; N2-3; N3-3
#3: impossible
#10: oh, yeah, you're right
#1 PM's #10: BD
#10: thanks 1
#10: but i don't wanna convert you
*#9 is put on trial*
*#9 claims doc*
#8: 10 claims 9 is cult
#11: was anyone bussed?
#10: #11 doc claims are impossible
#8: let's see if 10 is right
*9 is voted Inno*
#11: hey was anyone fucking bussed
#10: 11, there's literally no room for doc, zzz
#3: no 10
#3: you idiot
#1: i bussed 12 and 9
#1: n2
#10: MAYOR GET YOUR SHIT
#3: fuck you 10
#9: wait I'm alive?
#9: wtf is this
*#9 is put on trial*
#7 PM's #10: 3 claimed doc to me d1 btw if you want someone to rb
#10: inno and get 3 i say
#11: everyone claimed doc
*9 is voted guilty*
#9: and the town will loose. killing an actual doc. GJ
#10: Get 3
#10: he's not an actual doc
#14: who gonna heal us
#7: WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE
#14: now now

Night 4:
#10 goes to roleblock #3
Never Unlucky updates is Last Will: N1: 2 // N2- 14 No MM kills // N3- 1 // N4- 3 NO TRIAD KILL | 3 100% Triad
#7 goes to perform a killing spree at 11's house
Aroith updates his Last Will: PLEASE KILL ME BODYGUARD!!! I HATE THIS ROLE!!!

Day 5:
*1 died, he was a cultist*
#10: GET 3. I have a red check on him
#3: 1 is dead
#7: omg more cult
#3: it's over
#3: cult wins
#14: GAY PRIDE is a KILLER detective here
#3: town couldn't lynch 10
#14: good fork here me
#3: 10 wanted to lynch 14, now he wants to lynch 3. lmfao
#7: fork?
#10: 3 is a member of the triad
#3: who he claimed was "MM"
#3: Get 10
#14: now now
*#3 votes #10*
*#10 votes #3*
*#7 votes #3*
#10: 3 = triad
#3: 10 and 7
#3: cult
#3: get cult
#7: i wish i was cult
#7: srsly
#10: me too
#10: GET 3
#3: 10 claimed 14 was mm, then he mysteriously gave up his lead
#7: ;)
#10: TOWN
#3: 10 claimed 14 was mm, then he mysteriously gave up his lead
#3: 10 claimed 14 was mm, then he mysteriously gave up his lead
#3: 10 claimed 14 was mm, then he mysteriously gave up his lead
#3: 10 claimed 14 was mm, then he mysteriously gave up his lead
#3: TOWN GET 10
#10: I HAD NO LEAD ON 14, IT WAS RANDOM
#3: YOU SAID HE WAS MM
#10: I HAVE A RED CHECK ON 3
#14: 7 is merderer
#10: 3 - TRIAD
#10: 3 - TRIAD
#3: WHY ARE YOU CHANGING YOUR STORY AND LYING, 10?
#10: 3 - TRIAD
#3: WHY ARE YOU CHANGING YOUR STORY AND LYING, 10?
#10: 3 - TRIAD
#3: WHY ARE YOU CHANGING YOUR STORY AND LYING, 10?
#10: 3 - TRAID
*#8 votes #7*
*#3 votes #7*
#7: there's your triad town
#14: last detective here
#7: 3 & 8
*#3 votes #10*
#10: MM AND CULT VOTE 3
#3: 10 TRIED TO LYNCH A DETECTIVE
#3: 10 TRIED TO LYNCH A DETECTIVE
#7 PM's #10: if you blocked 3, block 8 i guess
*no one is lynched*

Night 5:
#10 goes to roleblock #8
Never Unlucky updates his Last Will: N1: 2 // N2- 14 No MM kills // N3- 1 // N4- 3 // 8 NO TRIAD KILL | 3 100% Triad
#7: goes to perform a killing spree at #8's house

Day 6:
*#10 was killed*
#7 convinces the 2 remaining players who were cult to lynch#3.

Night 6:
#7 was converted into a cultist.

This is a clear example of why In Game Communication is not allowed. This is a game of deceit, and by exchanging information at the beginning of the game can make a scum role more informed than he should be. Although Aroith did not give Never Unlucky his role,by giving this additional information it was made possible that Aroith could kill Never Unlucky himself and a Triad.
Never Unlucky also, took #7's advice tunnelled #3. Because Never Unlucky kept repeating that #3 was scum, the remaining cultist was able to narrow down his choices and successfully convert the only other Town besides Never Unlucky turning the game into a 2 v 1 v 1 Cult sided going into Day 6.

Previous Offenses
Never Unlucky - Game Throwing: https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...1-S2-1-2326703
Cheating/Additional Information: https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...646#post635646
Cheating / Additonal Infromation:https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...679#post635679

Aroith: Cheating / Additional Information: https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...646#post635646
Cheating / Additional Information: https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...679#post635679

Player Offenses
Never Unlucky: Additional Information
Aroith: Cheating / Additional Information

Recommended Action
Never Unlucky: Ban List x2
Aroith: 4x Watch-list

Additional Notes
Thank You for your report!

[Arrow]

1-S2-1-2326703: 2x banlist
1-S2-1-697408: 4x watchlist

[Never Unlucky]

I appeal this. Lynching a jester as marshall is not Griefing. Jester as a role is not a member of the town. I had no reason to keep this player in the game. Plus, lynching the jester resulted in the Dragon Head dying.

If you look at the replay, you'll see that Keaton is actually the one who's griefing, refusing to follow the marshall who had found 2 triad members. Losing his vote, the town wasn't able to lynch these two players and eventually lost. The moment I revealed as marshall, Keaton insulted me saying that only shit marshalls reveal when there are confirmed towns in the place. Not only do I appeal this, but I pursue a report on Keaton who griefed in this game, leading to town's loss.

EDIT: This applies to the 'Griefing' report. My other appeal is strictly for the allegations made on the 'In game communication' reports.

[Never Unlucky]

Appealed. I ask that a moderator who isn't biased against me processes these appeals. I'm not sure why Mesk was the Keeper who was put in charge of those reports to begin with...

Using in-game communication is not cheating. Everyone has access to this feature, everyone can use it to his advantage. I will later explain why it doesn't even advantage me unlike what Keaton thinks. I don't understand why 'In game communication' can be an offense in a typing/communication game. The fact that that's how my offence is called ('In game communication') makes the report senseless.

There is no rule against this practice. I cannot be punished for it, I broke no rule.

Messaging Aroith my role in certain games is not what gives me an edge over other players; it's the fact that Aroith -prefers town roles, -blacklists evil roles, and always has the same username. Knowing this, when a game is started with Aroith, I know that there are 2 confirmed towns (when I roll town), myself and Aroith. In that sense, communicating in game doesn't give me new and unfair information as I already know he is town. My message is essentially me saying, "I'm NeverUnlucky."

Punishing Aroith for something that is out of his control is immoderate. He is in the receiving end of this ploy, and he cannot prevent me from messaging him (He could do -mute #, but since I have a default name most of the time, he cannot know for sure who I am before I type.).

I also find the straight 2x BANLIST to be excessive seeing as I got reported 3x for the same offense without warning. 2 of the "Previous offenses" are found in the same thread, that is absurd. It's like pitching 3 baseballs at once; you're punishing the hitter for making one mistake on three balls by outing him immediately rather than throwing one ball at a time so he can correct his mistakes, adjust his swing and hit better in the next pitch.


I take this report as a warning and will stop messaging him my role. I have played over 700 games and only was found guilty of breaking the rules once.

[DarknessB]

I will review this appeal tonight or tomorrow morning.

[Aroith]

Punishing Aroith for something that is out of his control is immoderate. He is in the receiving end of this ploy, and he cannot prevent me from messaging him (He could do -mute #, but since I have a default name most of the time, he cannot know for sure who I am before I type.).

I'd like to appeal as well. Why am I being punished for someone messaging me their role??? This is completely beyond my control. I would think this is a risk to any person willing to give their role to someone else in the hopes of receiving protection or collaborating. As you can see in one of the replays where I was MM, I took advantage of the situation and used "deception" (name of the game isn't it?) to try and win. I can't possibly fathom how I could be punished for doing that.

[DarknessB]

I'd like to appeal as well. Why am I being punished for someone messaging me their role??? This is completely beyond my control. I would think this is a risk to any person willing to give their role to someone else in the hopes of receiving protection or collaborating. As you can see in one of the replays where I was MM, I took advantage of the situation and used "deception" (name of the game isn't it?) to try and win. I can't possibly fathom how I could be punished for doing that.

Noted -- I had planned to review the entire set of reports anyway when I processed Never Unlucky's appeal.

[DarknessB]

NAME / SC ID VERIFICATION
NeverUnlucky: CORRECT: 1-S2-1-2326703
Aroith: CORRECT: 1-S2-1-697408

Respective Hotkeys
Varied, given three games were reviewed in this thread.

Was the Game Result altered?
Yes, given NeverUnlucky used out of game information (Aroith's common choice of in-game name and blacklist) in order to Townread him in each game and collaborate with him. Given Aroith readily cooperated with NeverUnlucky in each game, it is very likely that Aroith was aware of NeverUnlucky's OOG information strategy. At the very least, he willingly chose to go along with it. Generally speaking, their play allowed the Town to have more information than it should have which increased their chances of winning the game (aside from the game that the rolled different alignments).

Previous Offenses
NeverUnlucky: Game Throwing (Watch List) (prior to these three reports)
Aroith: None (prior to these three reports)

Player Offenses
NeverUnlucky: Cheating / Additional Information
Aroith: Cheating / Additional Information

Summary
The reviewing Keeper's summaries of these three games are accurate and the appealing players do not seem to be disputing anything from a factual standpoint (i.e. what actually happened in the games) so the balance of my summary will address the rules-based issues which has arisen here. Essentially, the question is whether taking advantage of out of game information to determine the alignment of other players and align yourself with said players is against the Mafia rules. My conclusion is that this behavior is against the rules for the reasons described below. I have organized my review in response to Never Unlucky and Aroith's appeals, as follows:

Appealed. I ask that a moderator who isn't biased against me processes these appeals. I'm not sure why Mesk was the Keeper who was put in charge of those reports to begin with...

Our reports process works as follows: (1) a player files a report against another player; (2) a Keeper reviews the game replay in question and writes up their findings of what happened; (3) our Warden (Arrow) reviews the Keeper's post / recommendation and implements the punishment that he believes is fair in light of the circumstances, which may deviate from the Keeper's recommendation; and (4) if the punished player appeals, someone at the Super Moderator (blue) level or above has the option of reviewing the game, Keeper's report, and appealing player's comments to render a final decision.

With respect to your point on bias, we are not aware of any reason why Mesk would be biased and our multistep system ensures that multiple people have reviewed a report before a player can be punished. I.e. The Warden (Arrow) himself signs off on every player who is punished; Keepers (like Mesk) do not have the unilateral power to punish someone. In addition, Keepers have the power to review any filed report of their choice, provided they were not in the game in question (because that would present a conflict of interest). Finally, it is not helpful to make an appeal where you question the credibility of Keeper who reviewed the report unless there is something very concrete that you can point to re: bias.

Using in-game communication is not cheating. Everyone has access to this feature, everyone can use it to his advantage. I willter explain why it doesn't even advantage me unlike what Keaton thinks. I don't understand why 'In game communication' can be an offense in a typing/communication game. The fact that that's how my offence is called ('In game communication') makes the report senseless.

Using in-game communication is not cheating in and of itself, but using in-game communication to disseminate out of game information is in fact cheating. For a more extreme example, I would refer to you to a previous case where a player knew the identities of other players in the game (just as you did). When a Disguiser used his ability, he would interrogate the other players with PMs to ask them OOG information like their Battle.net names in order to check whether a Disguiser had stolen their identities. That involved the in-game communication system, but was not permitted in terms of fair play. The same applies here. I believe you are focusing too much on the offense listed in the report -- essentially, the offense here is more accurately described as "Cheating / Additional Information", as in, you had additional information and used it to gain an unfair advantage over the other players. Merely because the offense was not described as tightly as it could have does not make the report senseless.

There is no rule against this practice. I cannot be punished for it, I broke no rule.

Your practice violates the spirit of the game and any sense of fair play. It is an unfair advantage to know who another Town player is based on their in-game name and choice of blacklist / prefer. It's even worse when you leverage that knowledge to form a "Town bloc" with that player and spend significant amounts of time trading information with that player. The entire point of Mafia is that you are not supposed to know each other's roles and alignment. You are essentially using OOG information to determine a player's alignment beyond a reasonable doubt and then extensively collaborating with that player who is likely Town, including, but not limited to sharing your own role with that other player as well as information you have gained during the game. This is very unfair to the Mafia / Triad and Neutral Evil roles, in terms of you beginning the game with a just about 100% confirmed Town read.

Messaging Aroith my role in certain games is not what gives me an edge over other players; it's the fact that Aroith -prefers town roles, -blacklists evil roles, and always has the same username. Knowing this, when a game is started with Aroith, I know that there are 2 confirmed towns (when I roll town), myself and Aroith. In that sense, communicating in game doesn't give me new and unfair information as I already know he is town. My message is essentially me saying, "I'm NeverUnlucky."

You've basically explained in a nutshell the problem with your practice. You're leveraging OOG information to automatically Townread and collaborate with another player. The collaboration given your OOG information is the Cheating / Additional Information, as other players don't have that information and you did not obtain that information based on the current game. Yes, we can't control whether you happen to know Aroith's choice of name and blacklist / prefer preferences, but you've taken that to an extreme in terms of messaging him with your role on a game-by-game basis and collaborating with him based on that OOG information.

Punishing Aroith for something that is out of his control is immoderate. He is in the receiving end of this ploy, and he cannot prevent me from messaging him (He could do -mute #, but since I have a default name most of the time, he cannot know for sure who I am before I type.).

Aroith cannot prevent you from messaging him, but he obviously knows who you are (he does not receive PMs from any other player with their role and information to start the game), yet he participates by responding to you. Thus, he has become a part of the practice by being the other person partaking in it. Let's put it this way -- most normal players would be taken back by someone PMing them with their role to start the game and would be suspicious that they were being lied to -- in contrast, Aroith seems to go along with it each time, because he's used to what you are doing. That's being a part of the problem and engaging in the OOG information practice himself. Agreed that Aroith's involvement is not as severe as yours, but it's still there.

I also find the straight 2x BANLIST to be excessive seeing as I got reported 3x for the same offense without warning. 2 of the "Previous offenses" are found in the same thread, that is absurd. It's like pitching 3 baseballs at once; you're punishing the hitter for making one mistake on three balls by outing him immediately rather than throwing one ball at a time so he can correct his mistakes, adjust his swing and hit better in the next pitch.

You make a fair point here, arguably your most compelling. Ideally, we would have hoped that you had received a Watch List prior to a Ban List based on these offenses, but our reports processing did not take place until three reports had been filed against you for this practice. We have a general rule of not putting anyone on the Ban List until they have received some Watch List, but based on your past record, you have been on the Watch List once so the general rule goes out the window. Also, in the subsequent games, a number of other players noted their problems with your practice and you seem to have responded rather dismissively. It would have been far better practice to ask game staff if there was any question about whether this practice was allowed or not, as opposed to continuing to do it, especially if it was angering a number of players.

I take this report as a warning and will stop messaging him my role. I have played over 700 games and only was found guilty of breaking the rules once.

We appreciate you refraining from this practice in the future. As a technical matter, you do have another offense on your record, so this is your second (third, and fourth) offenses. That having been said, I find your argument about the straight Ban List for this offense at least somewhat compelling as well as your promise to refrain from this practice in the future given you were under the misunderstanding that it was allowed. For those reasons, I am recommending that your punishment for these three games be reduced to a Watch List x 8.

I'd like to appeal as well. Why am I being punished for someone messaging me their role??? This is completely beyond my control. I would think this is a risk to any person willing to give their role to someone else in the hopes of receiving protection or collaborating. As you can see in one of the replays where I was MM, I took advantage of the situation and used "deception" (name of the game isn't it?) to try and win. I can't possibly fathom how I could be punished for doing that.

With respect to Aroith, while he was not the first player to message the other, he was nevertheless participating in the OOG Cheating -- i.e. he responded to NeverUnlucky's information by coordinating with NeverUnlucky. As I pointed out above, this is very peculiar behavior for someone who did not know what was going on and suggests instead that Aroith was aware of what was happening and receptive to participating in the practice. I would imagine that most players in Aroith's situation who were not aware would highly question another player spontaneously messaging them with their role on Day 1 each game -- i.e. perhaps the messaging was lying. In contrast, there did not seem to be any doubt in Aroith's mind that NeverUnlucky was telling the truth and no hesitation to collaborate with him.

In addition, there is a high level of collaboration from Aroith himself in terms of information being fed back to NeverUnlucky in these games. While Aroith did not initiate the conversation, he seemed to be aware of it and continuously took advantage of it in these three games. The fact that Aroith and NeverUnlucky appear to have entered these games as a party is further evidence that this practice was not simply coincidental or that Aroith's actions were spontaneous. For these reasons, I am recommending that Aroith's punishment remain the same. I recognize that this whole thing was unfortunate, but the amount that it bothered other people and fact that you are not supposed to know another player's alignment / role should have made it clear to both players that this was not in the spirit of fair play.

Recommended Action
NeverUnlucky: Watch List x 8 (reduced from Ban List x 2)
Aroith: Watch List x 4 (same as before)

Additional Notes
I recognize that this was a controversial issue and I'm hopeful that both NeverUnlucky and Aroith cease the practice in the future. Both have been clean players for the most part who follow the rules, so I believe that this was just an exception to that. Given these are only Watch List offenses, both will be able to play the game, and if they do not violate any further rules, this will be a non-issue.

[Aroith]

I want to start this reply by saying thank you for reviewing the replays and spending your time on helping to make the game fun and fair for all. I know from running a BF2 server and community for years that at times, volunteering your time and money can be really thankless.

The fact that Aroith and NeverUnlucky appear to have entered these games as a party is further evidence that this practice was not simply coincidental or that Aroith's actions were spontaneous.

I want to clarify that I have 3 people on my friend's list in over 23,000 points of Mafia. Two of those players are Unknown and Gyrlander who I am pretty sure are Moderators of this game. Unknown friended me to invite me to play forum mafia and I have asked a few questions about gameplay and I friended Gyrlander to ask questions specifically about blacklist and how it worked and I have also asked a few other questions of him/her. The 3rd player on my friend's list is NeverUnlucky who friended me to again invite me to play forum mafia. I have never partied with ANYONE playing this game and I have never private messaged any of them to "cheat" with me either.

Secondly, I find the whole notion of being on the receiving end of this communication as "cheating" to be a bit of a stretch. I spent a lot of time reading this website and directing questions to Unknown and Gyrlander to find out the rules so that I didn't ever break them. I don't see how I was "cheating" by receiving in game, not out of game, information. While I don't deny "going along with NU" as you put it, I get private messaged by a lot of people for a variety of different reasons. During the time frame that I play there are people that recognize me by the name I use and I will get random messages from people that I don't even know saying exactly the same things that NU said to me in PMs. A good example of that is the game where I was MM and I believe it was player #3 that messaged me saying "doc on you whole game" or something very similar but that seems to be left out of the transcript above. I think I replied "thanks!" or something similar. This happens ALL the time and I don't see how I can be blamed for people sharing that information.

I in fact go out of my way to report players that break the rules to ensure fair game play for all. I don't have any particular grudge, ulterior motive, or reason for doing so other than the simple fact that they were breaking the rules which are clearly defined here on the website and in game. I guarantee you that you would never find a replay of me breaking any of those rules because I believe in playing a game fairly! The fact that I am being accused of breaking them, cheating, of all things just pours salt in the wound.

I still fail to see how I'm the one being found guilty of a crime in which information was freely given to me and that I did not ask for. Would it have made a difference if I had been Triad in the above replays and still used that person's information against them? I don't think so... The whole point of this game is deception and in the case where I was MM, I used the information he freely gave against him ie played my role to the fullest to win and that's what I did. If I was evil every game he PM'd me his role that would be on him, not me. It just happened to be that we were on the same team in the other replays.

Crime: Cheating
Cheating is using methods unintended by the game to discuss a game in action.
Example: Using Skype to plan your plays with other players.
Type:Intentional

The above description does not apply to me in the least.

Day 3:
#3 PM's #2: 15 said he reported you and I zz
#2 PM's #3: for?
#3 PM's #2: for pming you my role day 1
#3 PM's #2: dw, it's not an offense
#2 PM's #3: is that illegal?
#3 PM's #2: no
#3 PM's #2: unless i do it via Skype/FB or w/e
#2 PM's #3: i suppose it's a choice to give away your role to someone knowing they could use it against you.

Per the discussion as further evidence that I did not want to participate in anything illegal. Cheating is not and was not my intention. Furthermore, these warnings were not ever put into place to inform us that this practice was viewed as against the rules by the Mafia Administrators until after 3 separate reports were filed each increasing in punishment yet we were not informed. Had I received a message in game I would've immediately come to assess the situation and ask sooner on how to resolve it rather than continue to have you think I was a willing participant in breaking the rules...

I recognize that this was a controversial issue and I'm hopeful that both NeverUnlucky and Aroith cease the practice in the future. Both have been clean players for the most part who follow the rules, so I believe that this was just an exception to that. Given these are only Watch List offenses, both will be able to play the game, and if they do not violate any further rules, this will be a non-issue.

Please advise me on how I can cease a practice which I did not ask to participate in in the future. As I stated above, this happens quite often by generally nice players that just want to offer their help and I don't want to again be held responsible for being on the receiving end of this type of information and be further punished for things that are out of my control.

I had honestly hoped with over 23,000 points earned in this game to not have a spot on my flawless record and one day apply to the Moderator team of this game but as a result of someone else's actions and being found guilty of "cheating" I can see any chance of that going out the window.

[DarknessB]

Appreciate you putting thoughts into this -- responses below in teal.

I want to start this reply by saying thank you for reviewing the replays and spending your time on helping to make the game fun and fair for all. I know from running a BF2 server and community for years that at times, volunteering your time and money can be really thankless.

Appreciate your kind words.

I want to clarify that I have 3 people on my friend's list in over 23,000 points of Mafia. Two of those players are Unknown and Gyrlander who I am pretty sure are Moderators of this game. Unknown friended me to invite me to play forum mafia and I have asked a few questions about gameplay and I friended Gyrlander to ask questions specifically about blacklist and how it worked and I have also asked a few other questions of him/her. The 3rd player on my friend's list is NeverUnlucky who friended me to again invite me to play forum mafia. I have never partied with ANYONE playing this game and I have never private messaged any of them to "cheat" with me either.

Appreciate the background -- this isn't so much "Cheating" as it is "Additional Information" for what it's worth, but the offenses are grouped together. Also, we know you to have been a player who has otherwise played clean, filed reports, and not had any other reports filed against you.

Secondly, I find the whole notion of being on the receiving end of this communication as "cheating" to be a bit of a stretch. I spent a lot of time reading this website and directing questions to Unknown and Gyrlander to find out the rules so that I didn't ever break them. I don't see how I was "cheating" by receiving in game, not out of game, information. While I don't deny "going along with NU" as you put it, I get private messaged by a lot of people for a variety of different reasons. During the time frame that I play there are people that recognize me by the name I use and I will get random messages from people that I don't even know saying exactly the same things that NU said to me in PMs. A good example of that is the game where I was MM and I believe it was player #3 that messaged me saying "doc on you whole game" or something very similar but that seems to be left out of the transcript above. I think I replied "thanks!" or something similar. This happens ALL the time and I don't see how I can be blamed for people sharing that information.

Look, it comes down to the following -- based on the three games that we reviewed. It's very clear that you were aware of Never Unlucky feeding you information, and you had come to know that he was doing so reliably given you did not react suspiciously to him doing so. Had there been an instance where you were suspicious of him or he lied to you, then there's not the pattern of concern that we saw here. You went along with him giving you that information and in fact provided him with information of your own in many of the replays. The issue with NU doing it vs. other players is that it seemed to have been a systematic thing and you were aware enough of it that you provided him with role information of your own. Was this as bad as NU precipitating the act in the first place? Definitely not, but ideally, you would have refrained from the behavior altogether. The only reason it's an Watch List x 4 is because you were reported for the same offense three times and punishments escalate.

I in fact go out of my way to report players that break the rules to ensure fair game play for all. I don't have any particular grudge, ulterior motive, or reason for doing so other than the simple fact that they were breaking the rules which are clearly defined here on the website and in game. I guarantee you that you would never find a replay of me breaking any of those rules because I believe in playing a game fairly! The fact that I am being accused of breaking them, cheating, of all things just pours salt in the wound.

Agreed, and we appreciate you submitting reports and helping to keep the game clean. Again, I think you're getting too fixated on the term "Cheating" -- it's more like you had access to Additional Information, which gave you and NU an improper advantage over other people -- i.e. the idea that you could immediately Townread each other based on NU messaging you with his role when you both were Town, and fact that you went along with him when he did so and sent him your role information / night leads, etc.

I still fail to see how I'm the one being found guilty of a crime in which information was freely given to me and that I did not ask for. Would it have made a difference if I had been Triad in the above replays and still used that person's information against them? I don't think so... The whole point of this game is deception and in the case where I was MM, I used the information he freely gave against him ie played my role to the fullest to win and that's what I did. If I was evil every game he PM'd me his role that would be on him, not me. It just happened to be that we were on the same team in the other replays.

You're being found guilty because your conduct clearly demonstrated that you were aware of what NU was doing and you essentially went along with it and not only Townread him, but sent him your information / reads. Again, we're in agreement that your sort of got looped into this by less than your own volition, which is a mitigating factor for sure. A Watch List is essentially being told to be careful in the future -- it's not an indictment that you are a horrible rule-breaker. From the perspective of some of the other players in this game, you had an unfair advantage because of the communication with NU.

Crime: Cheating
Cheating is using methods unintended by the game to discuss a game in action.
Example: Using Skype to plan your plays with other players.
Type:Intentional

Again, it's not exactly Cheating -- it's having Additional Information which gave you an unfair advantage over other players in terms of a verified Town member to start the game. Not suggesting that we go along with popular opinion, but the fact that this was noticed and reported a number of times suggests that it went against the spirit of the game. It's the equivalent of what another player did -- knowing people's names and asking them their Battle.net names when a Disguiser stole someone's identity to verify they had not been disguised or in the old days, asking someone to read their role card to confirm their identity (before role cards were displayed above the screen). It's exploiting the rules in order to gain an advantage over other players.

The above description does not apply to me in the least.

Please advise me on how I can cease a practice which I did not ask to participate in in the future. As I stated above, this happens quite often by generally nice players that just want to offer their help and I don't want to again be held responsible for being on the receiving end of this type of information and be further punished for things that are out of my control.

Honestly, I'd probably suggest that you vary up the in-game name that you use in order to avoid getting wrapped up into this type of deal. I realize that it's not entirely your fault and this was a messy situation, but if you use different names, then there's no way people can know that you, Aroith, blacklist evil / scum roles and therefore, are likely Town. You might also consider varying up your blacklist / prefer list or simply not assuming that everyone who PMs you with their role is someone you should work with. It was the repetitiousness of what happened that was a major factor in you being punished as well. Lastly, you might consider taking such claims with a grain of salt. The fact that it appeared you blindly went along with NU's claims in all three of these games made it look far more like some sort of collaboration.

I had honestly hoped with over 23,000 points earned in this game to not have a spot on my flawless record and one day apply to the Moderator team of this game but as a result of someone else's actions and being found guilty of "cheating" I can see any chance of that going out the window.

This situation was unusually messy and I would doubt that this offense would be held against you if you applied to be a Keeper one day. It was in part a misunderstanding / prompted by another player's actions -- i.e. essentially one offense that spanned a number of games. There's no rule that you need to have a perfect record -- it's one factor that's taken into account. In fact, there are a number of staff members who had offenses against them when they were added to staff. I wouldn't worry about this aspect of things.

[DarknessB]

As a friendly reminder, this is an Appeals matter, and per our Section Rules, the only people allowed to post are the reporting player, the reported players, or staff. General concerns can be posted to Answer Hall. Thank you!

[Never Unlucky]

DB, you forgot to make a separate appeal on the first report in which I was falsely accused of griefing. I also said that you should check Keaton (Player #1) in that game who I think was the one griefing in that game, refusing to follow the marshall in his lynches resulting in town losing the game. Please take a look at his behavior.

Honestly, I'd probably suggest that you vary up the in-game name that you use in order to avoid getting wrapped up into this type of deal. I realize that it's not entirely your fault and this was a messy situation, but if you use different names, then there's no way people can know that you, Aroith, blacklist evil / scum roles and therefore, are likely Town. You might also consider varying up your blacklist / prefer list or simply not assuming that everyone who PMs you with their role is someone you should work with. It was the repetitiousness of what happened that was a major factor in you being punished as well. Lastly, you might consider taking such claims with a grain of salt. The fact that it appeared you blindly went along with NU's claims in all three of these games made it look far more like some sort of collaboration.

I mean, saying that me knowing what Aroith prefers/blacklists is an instance of additional information is like saying that a player who uses player meta (ie additional information) in FM is breaking the rules by having more information than the game itself gives the other players. It's not. Every player has access to the replay feature present in SC2 just like every player has access to the 'Archived Games' section of the site. I don't have an unfair advantage over other players since everyone can have this information.

"if you use different names, then there's no way people can know that you, Aroith, blacklist evil / scum roles and therefore, are likely Town"
Wrong. I am familiar with Aroith's meta. Even if he took a default name, I'd know which of the 14 other players is Aroith. A name change wouldn't fix the problem.
Think of PLZLEAVEDUCKK. Even if he used a smurf to participate in FM games, everyone would know that X player is DUCKK because of his extravagant meta. The name before the post doesn't matter.

Regarding the disguiser game to which you're referring: In that game, the player who committed the 'Additional Information' offense FORCED other players to give him their BNET usernames which is an out of game information.

Never have I forced Aroith to give me his BNET ID and never has he forced me to give him mine. And actually, Reverse Cowgirl, the player who submitted the report is the one who forced me to give my BNET ID. If you look at post #5 in this thread, you'll see that Mesk has highlighted this post of his, "#15 PM's #3: You are NeverUnlucky, yes? Did you PM Aroith telling him your role Day 1 again?"

This is a clear example of someone forcing someone else to give his BNET ID which is additional information and goes against the SC2 mafia rules. Keaton should be punished for this as well as the griefing he did in the first reported game as the disguiser in the game you referred to was punished for a similar thing.

Also, this case is very different from that disguiser case. The disguiser was solliciting additional information from other players; we haven't. I gave Aroith info without him asking me to and I never asked for his role. Yes, I knew he was town from the prefers/blacklists, but this is an unavoidable information bleed and saying that me taking advantage of the information I have before the game started is an offense really is a stretch. It would be ridicule for me not to profit of Aroith's known prefers/blacklists.

As you saw in the replay in which Aroith rolled MM, another player messaged Aroith his role day 1... why isn't this considered an offense? You see, it isn't uncommon that other players message known players (Akemi Homura, GAY PRIDE, Renata, Joirs, etc.) their roles day 1. I don't understand why it is considered an offense for me and not for everyone else. If I really wanted to cheat, I'd have used another way to do so. There are much more efficient ways to do it. Moreover, I never confirmed my BNET ID in my pms with Aroith. I only gave him my role to essentailly say that "I am NU" without giving my username. There is too much doubt to throw a cheating accusation on us unlike in the disguiser game where both the players worked together every game even giving out of game information like their BNET IDs.

I think 4 weeks and 8 weeks is too much. This case is a gray area case, the rules weren't defined for such scenarios. If they were clear enough and if they clearly stated that what we did was illegal, trust me, I wouldn't have messaged Aroith my role. I have played more than 700 games and was only found guilty of an offense once before. I wouldn't have deliberately broken a rule.

The tl;dr of this: the additional information I had to my disposal is general knowledge: Aroith uses the same name every game and always rolls town because of the prefer/blacklist features. Everyone can notice this. I don't have an advantage over other players. All I've done is I shared my role with Aroith and not my BNET ID unlike the other instances of the 'Additional information' offense being brought up where they'd give OOG info like BNET IDS.
This is a gray area case that the rules do not delimit. I propose that the report on Aroith is ignored and the report on me is put on-hold. We are players who are known to play the game cleanly with only 1 combined previous offense between our shared 2000 games. I will stop messaging Aroith my role seeing as it represents an offense. If I'm found guilty of cheating in the future, I will be placed on the banlist immediately because of this 'On-hold' report. Also, Aroith cannot prevent people who recognize him from messaging him their roles. This happens often for him because he uses the same name most games. I suggest that this goes 'Ignored' for Aroith.

Suggestions to prevent similar cases from happening:
a) Make a rule preventing continuously using the same name.
b) Clearly delimit this 'Additional information' field.
c) Tweak the blacklist/prefer features. (Can only be used 1/2 games / Needs to have as many Town preferred as neuts and mafia /etc.)

[DarknessB]

NU, while I appreciate your response, I've rendered my review and recommendation. The matter is now in the hands of @Arrow to make the final determination of what occurs here.

Given there were three different replays of the offending behavior, I feel like requesting an On Hold for yourself is almost ridiculous to what occurred here, especially given you have that prior offense. On Hold is typically reserved for first-time de minimis offenses like Role Quits, minor Griefing, etc. Even if we consolidated what happened here into one report, you would be at the Watch List x 4 level right now.

My sense from parts of your post is that you still don't fully appreciate how your practice was clearly against the spirit of the game and gave you an unfair competitive advantage against other players. There's a fundamental difference between identifying possible patterns that players have and following the equivalent of an extensive role-reveal, reads-reveal macro whenever you play with a certain player. I think you would be pretty annoyed if you saw other players doing this extensively and repeatedly as you had been here. It simply does not encourage arm's length and fair games when you not only have an auto-Town-confirm, but are massively leveraging that person to collaborate and share information.

I also don't think this was particularly defensible conduct to be honest, given the pervasiveness and consistent use of it. I feel like you were trying to use a shortcut to honest reading of different players, which would give you a leg up on other players. Anyway, Arrow will be around to make a final determination, one way or the other.

[Never Unlucky]

So, you're not going to review them again, hmm. I assume I have to make separate threads for Keaton's offenses displayed in those games then.

[DarknessB]

So, you're not going to review them again, hmm. I assume I have to make separate threads for Keaton's offenses displayed in those games then.

You cannot appeal someone not being found guilty of an offense in a report. Sorry, but that's not how our process works -- you can only appeal offenses found against you. Please do not repost replays that have already been reviewed.

[Never Unlucky]

You cannot appeal someone not being found guilty of an offense in a report. Sorry, but that's not how our process works -- you can only appeal offenses found against you. Please do not repost replays that have already been reviewed.

The replays weren't reviewed in the light of neither Keaton's griefing nor his additional information offense. They were "reviewed" in the perspective of the day 1 messages.
I say "reviewed" because I can see how many views the replays have. One of them has 1 view, another has 2 views (including my view of the replay), and the last one has 3 views. Considering that I have taken this report in appeal, all replays should at least have 2 views, right? No, you haven't already reviewed those replays. You can keep pretending you've reviewed all 3 replays, the evidence tells me otherwise.

[DarknessB]

The replays weren't reviewed in the light of neither Keaton's griefing nor his additional information offense. They were "reviewed" in the perspective of the day 1 messages.
I say "reviewed" because I can see how many views the replays have. One of them has 1 view, another has 2 views (including my view of the replay), and the last one has 3 views. Considering that I have taken this report in appeal, all replays should at least have 2 views, right? No, you haven't already reviewed those replays. You can keep pretending you've reviewed all 3 replays, the evidence tells me otherwise.

We're in agreement -- as I stated before, you're not permitted to appeal a finding of not guilty against another player. You once again keep confusing this point -- when you ask for an appeal, we review the punishment against you, not the non-punishment against another player. Arrow is going to make the final determination on this -- end of story. You are honestly not helping your case making your appeal about Keaton rather than your own actions. At best, it's a distraction and at worst, it's sour grapes.

UPDATE: Honestly, most appealed reports literally have the appeal reviewer's write-up and that's it without any further discussion beyond Arrow's final post. I feel like you've been given a ton of latitude to express your views here, and that's perfectly fine, but this is to the point where Arrow is going to make his final decision and that's that. Bringing up extraneous matters is not helpful or productive in any way. To that end, I'm not responding further on this thread -- this is in @Arrow 's hands now.

[Arrow]

In review.

[Arrow]

Punishment for NeverUnlucky reduced to 4X Watchlist, and Aroith to 2x Watchlist. This should go live within the next 30 minutes.

While I understand that we didn't explicitly have a rule against this, this is definitely against the spirit of the game. We'll correct the rules, and I don't expect to see this behavior continue.