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  1. ISO #401

  2. ISO #402

    Re: S-FM Matrix6 (Beginners Game)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mesk514 View Post
    YOU REALLY DONT UNDERSTAND DO YOU? PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME WHERE MY CITIZEN ROLE PLAYS INTO THIS
    Quote Originally Posted by SuperJack View Post
    The setup is determined by randomly selecting one row or one column from the above table, then filling in the remaining 6 roles with 5 Citizens and 1 Mafioso to create a 7-town, 2-mafia setup.
    Quote Originally Posted by SuperJack View Post
    then filling in the remaining 6 roles with 5 Citizens and 1 Mafioso
    That's where your citizen role plays into this.

  3. ISO #403

    Re: S-FM Matrix6 (Beginners Game)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mesk514 View Post
    YOU REALLY DONT UNDERSTAND DO YOU? PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME WHERE MY CITIZEN ROLE PLAYS INTO THIS
    Quote Originally Posted by Unknown1234 View Post
    the reason there is a citizen (i believe) because they have no other roles to put in the category with jailor (jailor and sheriff/detective is probably overpowered) Therefore, just because your role isnt there, there ARE still confirmed Citizens (5). So even though there is no citizen in the category, does not mean you can't be a citizen.
    I explained it right here. if you don't get it tell me what you don't get.

  4. ISO #404

  5. ISO #405

  6. ISO #406

  7. ISO #407

  8. ISO #408

  9. ISO #409

  10. ISO #410

  11. ISO #411

  12. ISO #412

  13. ISO #413

  14. ISO #414

  15. ISO #415

    Re: S-FM Matrix6 (Beginners Game)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sino View Post
    That's what i want to know from @Unknown1234
    Personally, i wouldn't call what he is doing "stupid", although i do feel a scum vibe from Powers to be honest. Two days in a row he has been eager to vote me with someone (First Veri, now Sino) if Executionner is possible then i would call him one, but i don't think i would consider him stupid.

  16. ISO #416

  17. ISO #417

    Re: S-FM Matrix6 (Beginners Game)

    Quote Originally Posted by PowersThatBe View Post
    @Sino I'd like you to respond to my response up top. Where I posted in quotes.

    @unknown I am not eager to vote you, I am just pointing out facts.
    Let's say for your own sake, i wish you are scum.

    Do you want some facts ? You led a mislynch and you don't even question yourself after, that's what i was calling stupidity.

  18. ISO #418

  19. ISO #419

  20. ISO #420

  21. ISO #421

    Re: S-FM Matrix6 (Beginners Game)

    Quote Originally Posted by PowersThatBe View Post
    Spoiler : DAY 1 FINAL ANALYSIS :
    Day 1 Final analysis

    1. Panda (number of posts 53)
    2. Thedougler (number of posts: 5)
    3. Mesk (number of posts 75)
    4. Unknown (number of posts 65)
    Spoiler : Goatse RIP :
    5. Goat (number of posts 18 (EIGHTEEN))

    6. Sino (number of posts 19)
    7. Renata (number of posts 8(eight))

    Dead player/role
    1. Veri – Citizen (10 posts)
    2. Goatse - (eightteen)

    Who voted for her:
    Renata, Me, Mesk, the dougler, Panda
    Who voted for him:
    No one
    Who did he vote for:
    Mesk
    Who did he challenge: Mesk, Unknown, and Sino

    Reasons they voted:
    1. Panda (for consensus)
    2. Me: because acted like scum
    3. Mesk (my analysis)
    4. Thedougler (my analysis)
    5. Renata (convinced it was unown or veri)

    Individual Analysis:

    1. Panda: Spent her 53 posts questioning mesk and unknown, giving them little reaction tests, and poking them to get more information out of them.
    a. Silent for a while.
    b. Claims to be playing on another mafia forum
    c. Later claims is new to forum mafia or has never played.
    d. But she plays on her “home” mafia forum hmmm a slip up?
    e. Scums me and but never votes me. Eventually doesn’t really focus me anymore
    f. CALIMS WOULDN’T BE SILENT MAFIA AND THEN TALKS A LOT.
    g. Brings up a good point about mislynching a power role.
    h. Calls out unknown for suggesting he only has one teammate.
    i. Misguided IMHO, Unknown was talking about MOD.
    j. POINTS out Mesk OMGYS attitude.
    k. DEFENDS REPUBLICANS = MAFIA (HA JK)
    l. ASK UNKnown if mesk is partner.
    m. Does a lot of time SCUM reading unkown and Mesk. Would a scum invest this much time?
    n. Points out that no one questions her. Would a scum do this?
    o. Gives two town warnings against bandwagoning. Interesting considering the person we killed was town.
    p. Calls Mesks bluff about lynch
    q. Panda doesn’t worry about looking bad
    r. Points out sinos lack of true info.
    s. Votes mesk
    t. Reluctantly votes Veri even though no scum read because only 20 mins left. Apologizes to Veri and calls us lame for lynching an afker.

    u. TOWN LEAN.

    2. Dougler: Spent his posts just agreeing with me. Immediately votes for Veri, offers nothing else, or analysis on any other player. Veri mentions that he just wants my trust and to confuse me into thinking he’s town. Dougler did mention being middle of the road is how you survive N1. Only votes with me, the most outspoken. Wby? To hide? Why would town do this? /Why would mafia do this? Scum lean strong.

    3. Renata: Her RQS still troubling. Immediately votes Sino, and afks. When she returns she offers a lot of valid information. However still only posts 8 times. Votes Mesk when that seemed to be consensus or where the focus was. Stayed out of the focus. Gives insight into the process, but why? Solid reasoning for voting Veri (possible Unknown collab). Didn’t want to hammer mesk who might be town. TOWN LEAN for now.

    4. Goatse: Spends his 18 pages setting up questions and agreeing with people who are town without ever really having the focus on him. Shifts focus as much as possible. Asks questions that he never follows up on or really ever asks more than a general thought. I will bullet interesting things

    a. 1. Essentially tells us his strat, in his RQS. “I love town but I’d also love to be a town acting scrum to help mislynch people while staying in the spotlight.”

    b. ^^^^^Is this not what he’s been doing?

    c. Votes Sino even though dougler and Panda had not talked. Claims to have scum reads on them but never pressures either of them further.

    d. Talked about two ways to play. 1. For TOWN interests as scum to look town. 2. To work for scum interest against town to blend in. Basically could be what he’s doing, making himself seem active while not really doing much to defend town.

    e. Claims to have scum reads on certain people but then never focuses on them. Why? Wouldn’t a town pressure the person they have the read on?

    f. Questions why Unknown never scum read sino who gave very blah answers.

    g. Calls himself out on his bandwagon. Draws unnecessary attention to himself at certain points. Would a scum do this?

    h. Calls me most town leaning player. Says I will “carry” the game. Is this a trick to gain my confidence? Why would he want me to think I’m doing the best possible job?

    i. Town reason: To win. Scum reason: to get others to trust me so then he can get me to mislynch Veri or someone else and take the focus off of me. Like the dougler he just sides with me, and trusts I’m town. Would a town have 100% confidence in me? Maybe. But a scum would definitely.

    j. Calls mesk “weakest link” Then later states that mesk has no friends so cant be scum (hmmmm a defense?) then states that it’s possible mesk’s teammate might just get rid of her to fly solo. An interesting strategy, if Goat was mafia, and put the pressure on Mesk to get rid of her because she was too much of a loose cannon, and it would make him look more inno, knowing he’d got a full fledged evil.

    k. Wants to vote Veri or Unknown but pressures town members to go for Mesk.

    l. Takes the time to point out unkown’s voting patterns

    m. Claims Veri might be pro town and worth keeping around. Veri flips green. Another confident vote, knowing shes town.

    n. HIGH STAKES POKER PLAYER.

    o. NEVER QUESTIONS OR CHALLENGES THE DOUGLER WHO HAS ONLY POSTED 5 TIMES. THE LEAST OF ANYONE. AND HE AND DOUGLER SHARED THE SAME ATTITUDE, FIND THE BIGGEST TALKER AND CO-SIGN WITH THEM TO NOT SEEM SUSPECT.

    SCUM LEAN

    5. Unknown
    a. Originally borderline for me
    b. Has almost as many posts as me
    c. Spends most of his posts putting the focus back on me or having us focus on small details
    d. But why? Never pressures me enough about more of my analysis, only that I included myself. Why would a town do this? Why would scum? To keep me distracted and to jump on Veri.
    e. Says I’m trying too hard.
    f. Keeps talking about referring to myself is pointless again and again.
    g. Uses other posts to update votes, the time, and other info. Why? So he can seem involved but not focusing on himself or anyone else.
    h. Unknown often defends Sino.
    i. Mesk calls out Sino and Unknown. Unknown immediately focuses on Mesk.
    j. Goat asks why Unkown thought sino wasn’t scum. Unknown never truly answers.
    k. Defends sino again.
    l. Tells me I wont get his trust. How that a town thing to say?
    m. Sino defends Unknown
    n. Unknown continues to pressure me, when clearly pro town.
    o. And again calls me out.
    p. Goatse puts the foucs on Unknown, and immediately he flips to us telling us he agrees with our assessments. He doesn’t argue, doesn’t try to pressure us truly. Why would a town just agree with us? Wouldn’t a true town question Goatse and I sort of collabing?
    q. Unknown decides I would be a “huge loss” for the town – when previously I was scum and he would never trust me?
    r. Unknown pressures most active person at the time, never asking fruitful questions.
    s. Unknown pivots focus a bit to other players.
    t. Continues to focus Mesk.
    u. Makes a weird vet claim.
    v. Panda points out unknowns lack of answers.
    w. Dodges every question and tries to refer them back in on themselves and send them back to original asker.
    x. UNKNOWN FAILS PANDA’S REACTION TEST.
    y. PANDA ASKS IF THEY WANT TO KNOW WHAT OTHER SCUM TELLS THEY GIVE OFF (mesk and Unknown) UNKNOWN IS THE ONLY ONE THAT SAYS TO TELL HIM.
    z. Panda points out that they don’t question her aggressiveness. Why wouldn’t a town question panda?
    aa. Unknown votes for Mesk b/c the focus is on both of them, what better way to get the focus off him?
    bb. Unknown puts spotlight back on me. But I thought he thought I was town?
    cc. When pressure is off of Mesk, Unknown unvotes.
    dd. Back to me again.

    ee. SCUM lean

    6. SINO
    a. Never really votes anyone. Votes renata after the pressure is way off of her.
    b. Offers nothing of substance
    c. Recaps everything. Offering no true opinion or assessment
    d. Kind of sides with more powerful talkers (says I’m one he’d like to trust)
    e. Defends Unknown in his two assessment posts. Says he has no reason to believe unknown is evil. Slips him in with other people, trying to package us together
    f. Sino makes obvious statements “we need to read people.”
    g. Sells doom and gloom “if we lynch sino then the person who lynched him will look guilty and another potential town would die too.” Pg2
    h. Says to “be careful” What does a town have to lose? Only people who have to be careful during the day are the scum.
    i. Calls Renata (for voting him) and Mesk sus for no reads.
    j. Unknown thinks voting for sino would be bad.
    k. “would have voted unknown if mafia” That is possibly true, but if unknown was mafia as well, he would not have voted him and never pressures him.
    l. Throws blame on goatse.
    m. Offers only two posts of opinions and they’re barely fleshed out. Uses both of them to defend unknown.
    n. Throws light on AFK Renata
    o. Is against day 1 lynch? Why? Doom and gloom
    p. I tell town rally around voting veri, sino votes a player who will not be lynched and is afk. Another way to pull focus from himself.

    q. SCUM

    7. Mesk
    a. Uses WIFOM
    b. Shit posts
    c. Claims citi
    d. Argues back with people
    e. Votes people who vote her
    f. Is highly emotional
    g. Tries to get the town to see her as scummy so the mafia wont kill her
    h. Votes me then agrees with me and votes Veri
    i. Jokes about being scum
    j. Asks scum to kill her
    k. Says doesn’t mind being lynched, but doesn’t want to be lynched
    l. Very confident shes town, would a town bee this confident?
    m. Expected more from Renata, why?
    n. Reverse psychology?
    o. Wants us to think reverse psychology?
    p. Is actually partners with goatse, but goatse wants to cut loose?
    q. Calls people petty.
    r. Sides with me, would be disappointed if mafia.
    s. This is complete flip.
    u. Votes Veri with me when others get closer to hammering her.

    t. LEANS TOWN with a side of SCUM.



    Spoiler : IN CONCLUSION :
    IN CONCLUSION:

    A couple things stood out to me.
    1. Goatse never puts pressure on Doug even though Doug has fewest post (5) and goat claimed he’d push for lowest talker.
    2. Goatse talks about a mafia strategy of lynching teammate to gain trust of town. Pushes for mesk because “weakest link”

    POSSIBLE TEAM:

    1. Mesk and Goatse
    a. Read above analysis of both to see if fits.


    2. Goat and Doug:
    a. Both try to gain my trust.
    b. Doug inactive
    c. Goat never puts focus on doug or absence. Why?
    d. Both go for more obvious targets.


    PG 13 “VERI”
    I think*@thedougler*is highly suspicious. After not posting anything the whole day, he suddenly voted without a real explanation. Also his statement that lynching PTB can't do anything but hurt town seems weird to me - how does he know that? That would only be true if he knew that PTB is town for sure, and thedougler can only know that if he's mafia himself. It would also help him because with that vote, he gained the trust of PTB who is the most outspoken player easily. Either that, or the two of them are working together - either way, doesn't seem like something town would do.



    3. SINO AND UNKNOWN
    a. Both don’t pressure anyone
    b. Defend one another
    c. Do very little to drive conversation
    d. They only offer recaps or take on arguments that will go no where.
    e. Keep focus all person already with most attention.
    f. UNKNOWN PULLS FOCUS FROM SINO AT BEGINNING TO PANDA AND DOUG WHO WER AFK AT THAT TIME.
    g. SCUM TEAM.


    Interesting posts by SINO and UNKNOWN.
    PG 4
    *Originally Posted by*Mesk514*
    ----UNKNOWN1234 STICKING UP FOR HIS ALLIE----

    UNKNOWN1234 AND SINO ARE IN CAHOOTS I TELL YOU!!!!!*


    CAHOOTS

    "i Apologize if i don't feel like giving Sino a third vote, he only needs 3 more to be killed and I would rather talk about it more before i kill anyone." -Unknown

    PG4
    "I agree here. Although i am reluctant to believe Sino is evil at this point due to how easily people are voting him. If the other two are away, we need to encourage them to get involved." -UNKNOWN,

    GOAT:
    "Why don't you think he's scum? He hasn't given a single thought of his, or read a single player. You can discount Renata's vote for being a scummy lurker but I am very convinced that he is acting anti town. Especially his post where he insinuated that lynching him would lead to him flipping town and another town also being hanged for voting him. IMO, you contribute to discussion or you hang. Worst case is that a non-contributing town is hanged, best case is that you find a scum."

    UNKNOWN:
    "I'd like to point out two things here.
    1.) This is the first time most of us have played this game before. So obviously he is going to try to defend himself.
    2.) I don't think that him defending himself makes him scum. I think that he could be more involved, but nothing he has said really makes him scummy in my opinion.

    I never said, however, that he wasn't scum. I said i don't 'THINK' he is, but my opinion can change."

    PG 6 SINO:
    "@Unknown1234*: He seems suspicious about powers for including himself in this analysis, doesn't try to push a lynch, just arguing about it, i think he would have voted if he was mafia."


    PG 15 SINO

    "@Unknown1234*does seem very careful about who his vote goes on, trying to keep everyone updated about the game which is not the scummiest of behavior."


    IF I AM DEAD. WHICH IF YOU’RE READING THIS, I AM. FOCUS ON SINO AND UNKNOWN.

    Notice how they never reference each other and when they do, it's only to say that the other one is innocent. Both have done the least amount of work to actually scum read people. While dougler is suspect, he at least read me and others. However, Doug is extremely sus to me too. He needs to talk more or get lynched tomorrow.

    I just wanted to point out how these two have semi worked together. I believe that 2 of these 4 are the mafia.


    Also notice how both SINO and UNKNOWN voted for Renata (sino) and no one (unknown)

    Goatse pushed for veri but flipped to Mesk when momentum (possible own team lynch strat and mesk IS in fact mafia?) Goat voted for Mesk with Veri, so maybe he is good, maybe he isn't

    Dougler, Sino, Goat, and Unknown need the most pressure. Especially Unknown and Sino.




    If you read nothing else. Read this. But I suggest you go back and read the other stuff.

    1. Panda- TOWN LEAN
    2. Renata- TOWN LEAN
    3. Mesk - COULD GO EITHER WAY.
    4. Goat - TOWN
    5. Doug - SCUM lean
    6. Sino - SCUM lean
    7. Unknown - SCUM lean

    TWO of the 4 above are mafia. But who? READ MY ANALYSIS or at the very least CONCLUSION to figure out who!?
    Quotes from what PTB has said about me.

    "IF I AM DEAD. WHICH IF YOU'RE READING THIS, I AM. FOCUS ON SINO AND UNKNOWN"

    This sounds like your trying to lynch me? Are you starting to get worried about being lynched?

    "u. Makes a weird vet claim."

    This makes no sense. I never claimed vet, nor is it possible. Seriously?

    "t. Continues to focus Mesk."

    What?

    "d. But why? Never pressures me enough about more of my analysis, only that I included myself. Why would a town do this? Why would scum? To keep me distracted and to jump on Veri."

    I never jumped on Veri, nor wanted you to or me to either, so this is not at all true.

    "bb. Unknown puts spotlight back on me. But I thought he thought I was town?"

    Show me when i said this, because i doubt i ever typed those words.

    "x. UNKNOWN FAILS PANDA’S REACTION TEST."

    Because Panda testing me and Panda's reactions are based off of Panda. That is basically saying "Since Panda thinks your scum, i'm going to think your scum."

  22. ISO #422

    Re: S-FM Matrix6 (Beginners Game)

    Sure, I could be wrong. But as I said, Veri left very little in a way of her defense.

    I was the first to vote, others followed suit. As doug said, it's just as much everyone's fault as mine.

    So, yeah I'll take blame but you trying to throw all of the blame on me is exactly what a scum would do. Mesk's jump to confirm your thoughts only has me thinking more that you are together.

    It just bothers me that if Unknown is town, why is he hanging back?

    It seems I'm the only one trying to actually scum hunt in this game.

    Between the afkers and the non-questions askers and starts, this is becoming ad tedium.

  23. ISO #423

    Re: S-FM Matrix6 (Beginners Game)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sino View Post
    Now to all the people who think Unknown and me are both scum, i'd like to ask one simple question :
    Do you really think Veri was only voted by town and had no mafia vote ?
    I do agree with Mesk, Veri was voted by at the very least one scum, if not both of them.
    By the way, killing Goatse also seems like an attempt to frame me.
    How about you look at it this way : IF i really was scum and was obvious enough to kill the guy accusing me, i would also have voted Veri.
    But IF i was scum, trying to not draw attention to me by not voting a town member, i also wouldn't have killed Goatse, his death draws a lot of attention to me, proven by the fact that you all suspect me now.

    What are you thoughts about this ?

    If you ask me, renata and thedougler are still the most suspicious ones, just joining the bandwagon on Veri without any comment, i don't think both of them are scum though.
    Being Day 1 it is quite possible Veri was voted by all 5 town, Mesk514 doesn't think so but she voted for Veri and neither you or Unknown1234 did. So if Veri was lynched by at least one scum as you say if not both that means you or Unknown1234 would have to be town, right?

    Goatse's murder as an attempt to frame you seems far fetched, he seemed pro town enough for me Day 1 and my bets were that Mafia would target PowersThatBe, GoastseOntheCupboard, Panda or until Veri flipped town, thedougler for their Night 1 kill. Other than Powers's initial read on him, he was not being considered scum and even Powers later agreed about his reads when he offered up Mesk514 for lynch. He put pressure on you with me but made it clear why and that he would not stop until you brought something to the table and he had a read on you.

    Goatse was a town asset and I'm much more inclined to believe he was killed because of that instead of a frame job, but I can also see you being scum with someone like Unknown1234 and whacking Goatse because out of the 2 people who voted you he was considered less scummy and you took him out regardless of the consequences because from Day 1 chat clearly he wasn't going to let you, Unknown or Mesk off the hook so easily.

    You keep giving hypotheticals of what you would do if you were scum as if you want us to believe that would in fact be your behavior and since it wasn't you are not scum, but other people who behaved the way you would have as scum are. If you're being framed then you must be innocent, Am I the framer? After all I already voted and lynched Veri.

  24. ISO #424

  25. ISO #425

    Re: S-FM Matrix6 (Beginners Game)

    @Unknown1234

    1. That's my last will. Kind of obvious. Why would a scum put that "if I'm dead." Clearly you do not understand how Last wills work. I lived so I posted my analysis.

    2. You made some odd claims about vets, meh, Panda and I both mistook it as you trying to make some weird ass claim hoping we wouldn't know or check the possible roles, since they are not in this thread. And now, clearly (mesk) everyone did not know how the chart worked. Well so mesk claims.

    3. You at jumped off me at one point and kept trying to take focus off of you when Panda questioned both of you, to me it seemed you were trying to divert attention to mesk.

    4. You said 'if you are town that would be a huge loss to the town." And then you switched this position and focused me again. Simple really. You deduced that I am most likely important to town (i,e.e because doug and goatse said this to be the case "one of those people is confirmed town.") You then later switched back to me again. And here you are again, focusing only on me, if you're town you're making a big mistake and I fear "if" Sino and mesk are the evils they are playing both sides against the middle. "me"

    5. I didn't say you jumped -- or rather didn't mean you jumped. I meant you wanted to keep me distracted so I would continue to jump on Veri so I would mislynch and then later you could confirm that I am A "an idiot" or b "probably scum." So that way you could then mislynch me day two but have without scrutiny.

    6. Eh, I read it and it was pretty basic reaction test. Pretty general answers can be given. So it's not just based off of panda and her assumptions.

  26. ISO #426

  27. ISO #427

    Re: S-FM Matrix6 (Beginners Game)

    Quote Originally Posted by Renata View Post
    Being Day 1 it is quite possible Veri was voted by all 5 town, Mesk514 doesn't think so but she voted for Veri and neither you or Unknown1234 did. So if Veri was lynched by at least one scum as you say if not both that means you or Unknown1234 would have to be town, right?

    Goatse's murder as an attempt to frame you seems far fetched, he seemed pro town enough for me Day 1 and my bets were that Mafia would target PowersThatBe, GoastseOntheCupboard, Panda or until Veri flipped town, thedougler for their Night 1 kill. Other than Powers's initial read on him, he was not being considered scum and even Powers later agreed about his reads when he offered up Mesk514 for lynch. He put pressure on you with me but made it clear why and that he would not stop until you brought something to the table and he had a read on you.

    Goatse was a town asset and I'm much more inclined to believe he was killed because of that instead of a frame job, but I can also see you being scum with someone like Unknown1234 and whacking Goatse because out of the 2 people who voted you he was considered less scummy and you took him out regardless of the consequences because from Day 1 chat clearly he wasn't going to let you, Unknown or Mesk off the hook so easily.

    You keep giving hypotheticals of what you would do if you were scum as if you want us to believe that would in fact be your behavior and since it wasn't you are not scum, but other people who behaved the way you would have as scum are. If you're being framed then you must be innocent, Am I the framer? After all I already voted and lynched Veri.
    GOD I FUCKING LOVE YOU. Finally someone with some sense.

  28. ISO #428

    Re: S-FM Matrix6 (Beginners Game)

    Quote Originally Posted by Renata View Post
    Being Day 1 it is quite possible Veri was voted by all 5 town, Mesk514 doesn't think so but she voted for Veri and neither you or Unknown1234 did. So if Veri was lynched by at least one scum as you say if not both that means you or Unknown1234 would have to be town, right?

    Goatse's murder as an attempt to frame you seems far fetched, he seemed pro town enough for me Day 1 and my bets were that Mafia would target PowersThatBe, GoastseOntheCupboard, Panda or until Veri flipped town, thedougler for their Night 1 kill. Other than Powers's initial read on him, he was not being considered scum and even Powers later agreed about his reads when he offered up Mesk514 for lynch. He put pressure on you with me but made it clear why and that he would not stop until you brought something to the table and he had a read on you.

    Goatse was a town asset and I'm much more inclined to believe he was killed because of that instead of a frame job, but I can also see you being scum with someone like Unknown1234 and whacking Goatse because out of the 2 people who voted you he was considered less scummy and you took him out regardless of the consequences because from Day 1 chat clearly he wasn't going to let you, Unknown or Mesk off the hook so easily.

    You keep giving hypotheticals of what you would do if you were scum as if you want us to believe that would in fact be your behavior and since it wasn't you are not scum, but other people who behaved the way you would have as scum are. If you're being framed then you must be innocent, Am I the framer? After all I already voted and lynched Veri.
    So you're telling me only town would have voted Veri ? No scum would have jumped on the opportunity to lynch a townie ?

    Sorry, but that just doesn't make any sense given the situation, so yes, Unknown and me can't be both scum.

    I also don't get how a frame would be far fetched, of course we all know we also get clues from who gets killed, so obviously, scums would use that to their advantage.

    You can't just tell me you can't consider all those things, you first voted Veri and ran away without giving us any reason, and now you see only things the way you'd like them to be, seems pretty scummy to me.

  29. ISO #429

  30. ISO #430

  31. ISO #431

  32. ISO #432

    Re: S-FM Matrix6 (Beginners Game)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sino View Post
    Why do you automatically think about yourself about what i said ? I mentionned doug, not you, didn't you lynch Veri for defending herself too much ? Well, that's exactly what you're doing right now, you defend yourself even before i attacked you, as if you purposefully wanted to keep on leading mislynches.

    This answer makes you look even more suspicious to me.

    By the way, i never stated there can't be a sheriff, that was Mesk.
    This kind of rhetoric is exactly what I imagined coming from the mafia the moment Veri flipped town. It was obvious they would try to find a patsy from the town and push hard for a second mislynch. While my faith that PTB is town is shaken, him defending himself at this point in the game shouldn't be seen as a selfish attempt to stay alive and lead mislynches. The fact is if we get things wrong again today we're in trouble. Town mislynches tend to beget more town mislynches as the game goes on.

    It's impossible for me to ignore how premeditated everything going on between Sino and Mesk looks right now. It's like they're following a premade gameplan. This paired with Sino's seemingly random vote on Renata yesterday ("We should at least apply some pressure on the silent ones. ") is giving me a strong scum lean for him.

    -vote Sino
    Quote Originally Posted by Necroplant View Post
    Mafia will be very interesting for the duration of this sentence, and lots of individuals' tummys will hurt from laughing so hard. I've had to fall out of my chair and lie on the ground before, as it was just too painful to laugh LOL.

  33. ISO #433

    Re: S-FM Matrix6 (Beginners Game)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sino View Post
    Do you believe @PowersThatBe and @Renata are our two scums ?

    Would make sense, given how they never doubt each other, but i'll still need @Panda and @thedougler to give us their feelings about all of this.
    I do indeed believe that. It fits my theory about mafia taking two separate approaches, like Powers White Knighting and Renata adding her 2cents here and there. Powers set the tone by pointing the finger at @Veri while @Renata tried to go the opposite direction which was my way. They also have not pointed their fingers directly at each other which in my opinion is a bit fishy because I as someone who's a little scattered sometimes have been bouncing off the walls pointing my finger at everyone, and I've seen the same in a lot of you but not really amongst these two.

    Again, I strongly believe 1 or both Mafia voted @Veri .

  34. ISO #434

  35. ISO #435

    Re: S-FM Matrix6 (Beginners Game)

    Quote Originally Posted by PowersThatBe View Post
    @Unknown1234

    1. That's my last will. Kind of obvious. Why would a scum put that "if I'm dead." Clearly you do not understand how Last wills work. I lived so I posted my analysis.

    2. You made some odd claims about vets, meh, Panda and I both mistook it as you trying to make some weird ass claim hoping we wouldn't know or check the possible roles, since they are not in this thread. And now, clearly (mesk) everyone did not know how the chart worked. Well so mesk claims.

    3. You at jumped off me at one point and kept trying to take focus off of you when Panda questioned both of you, to me it seemed you were trying to divert attention to mesk.

    4. You said 'if you are town that would be a huge loss to the town." And then you switched this position and focused me again. Simple really. You deduced that I am most likely important to town (i,e.e because doug and goatse said this to be the case "one of those people is confirmed town.") You then later switched back to me again. And here you are again, focusing only on me, if you're town you're making a big mistake and I fear "if" Sino and mesk are the evils they are playing both sides against the middle. "me"

    5. I didn't say you jumped -- or rather didn't mean you jumped. I meant you wanted to keep me distracted so I would continue to jump on Veri so I would mislynch and then later you could confirm that I am A "an idiot" or b "probably scum." So that way you could then mislynch me day two but have without scrutiny.

    6. Eh, I read it and it was pretty basic reaction test. Pretty general answers can be given. So it's not just based off of panda and her assumptions.
    1.) Obviously that is your last will (I have played the mod, with you actually) and you completely missed the point of that quotation. I was showing you that if you were dead, you would STILL want me dead, and you just claimed recently saying "i don't want to lynch you".

    2.) I have read the charts, and i doubt Mesk would assume i was claiming a role that isn't even on the chart. His confusion was based off a role ON the chart, Veteran isn't. Also, the point of what i said was to emphasise my point, saying that i would act that way if i was veteran.

    3.) #5 states, once again, that i jumped on you even though you just said i didn't. I don't consider me jumping on you because i didn't even vote you.

    4.) You tend to overreact everything. I never once said that i thought you were town, but at that point (aside from pandas first post) you were the only one leading conversations. At this point more people are talking (with the exception of Panda)

    5.) I could say that about anyone. If i defended Veri, you really think i would want him dead secretly, so i defend him to make you vote him and NOT ME, which would be 50/50, and in hopes that he dies which does not even make you look guilty (Atleast in my books, starting a lynch on someone doesn't make you scum".

    6.) Just because the questions are "basic" does not mean i will answer them the way she thinks an "ideal townie" is, therefore, if you want to tell me i failed a reaction test, make up a test and tell me i answered those questions wrong.

  36. ISO #436

  37. ISO #437

    Re: S-FM Matrix6 (Beginners Game)

    2.) I have read the charts, and i doubt Mesk would assume i was claiming a role that isn't even on the chart. His confusion was based off a role ON the chart, Veteran isn't. Also, the point of what i said was to emphasise my point, saying that i would act that way if i was veteran.
    ^^^ IT WAS PANDA WHO THOUGHT YOU WERE VET.
    I know i only recently come to understand the chart but even I know that if veteran isn't there it isn't a possibility.

  38. ISO #438

    Re: S-FM Matrix6 (Beginners Game)

    The value in understanding this as scum is that it gives you an idea of methods to avoid in order to gain more town cred and avoid slips. It can also provide you with more ways to manipulate players who do not understand these methods.

    Straw Man- Setting up a weak version of the opponent’s argument in order to discredit it.



    Red Herring- This is when someone draws the argument into a tangent proving that the tangent is correct and insinuating that it either proves their point or draws away from the original point.

    Unknown: With my including myself.
    Mesk: “So my question is about jailor and citizen.”
    Sino: It’s a frame job. Powers is defending himself too much.


    False Dichotomy- This is when a player trys to force you into choosing between 1 of 2 choices. Usually with one of them being obviously ridiculous

    Sino: Is PTB stupid or scum “Obviously scum is the ridiculous choice because he is scum and he knows his partner
    .

    Slippery Slope- Claiming that A will start a chain reaction leading to B then C then D and D has a dire consequence

    Sino: If you lynch him day 1 then that would lead to a mislynch and another town getting lynched Day 2.Because that person would be more suspect.


    Ad Hominem- This is when a player attacks a person in order to discredit their argument as opposed to addressing the argument Hasty Generalization- This is basically stereotypes.

    Mesk: Calling Panda a stupid bitch, calling me a stupid 3rd grader. “No one would give you psych degree.”


    Fallacy of Accident- This is usually when someone trys to cover a specific situation by citing a general rule when the situation is an exception to the rule

    Sino: Someone killed goatse to frame me. “In most cases, a person is killed in mafia because they’re too close to the source. Claiming the opposite is appealing to our sense that people kill people in mafia to frame is the rule when it is the exception. Perhaps it might be the rule in the mod, but we’re playing long form. Which is much different. And even so, you kill people in the mod who are invests or protective types. Rarely do you kill to frame someone else successfully.”

    Missing the point- The premises of the argument does not support the conclusion.

    Post Hoc- Assuming because B came after A, A caused B




    Weak Analogy-An analogy is not strong enough to support a conclusion

    Mesk: Because Veri was lynched, and flipped town, one or both mafia have to have voted for veri.

    Mesk: Oh I bet he’ll accuse me of voting Sino so I could fly under the radar.


    Begging the Question- This is basically circular reasoning

    Mesk: Am I scum acting citi or citi acting scum. Will you lynch me? WIFOM


    Appeal to Pitty- Forcing someone to feel sorry to accept a conclusion

    Mesk: I don’t understand the chart, so I made a mistake. I’m stupid.


    Appeal to Ignorance- If it can not be proven it must be false; or If it can not be disproved it must be true

    Sino: Goatse was killed to frame me. One or both of the mafia voted to lynch veri. Therefore he is being both framed, AND is town b/c he didn’t’ vote veri

    Mesk: Also with the chart. Cant prove that she knew the setup, cant disprove that she didn’t.


    Appeal to Unqualified Authority- Adding Ethos to an argument from a bias or unqualified source.

    Sino: Well he voted for Veri who was town so he has to be scum because Veri said he was

    Mesk: Also what Sino said to an extent. PTB Led the charge on Veri . Because Veri was town, MAFIA had to vote for her.



    I just wanted to put this out here, I plan to go back and see if anyone else has committed these undeniable fallacies of argument typically used by scum. I pulled this list from Helz guide on the forums to playing forum mafia. Add anyone you see fit, add me, go for it!

  39. ISO #439

  40. ISO #440

    Re: S-FM Matrix6 (Beginners Game)

    Quote Originally Posted by Unknown1234 View Post
    1.) Obviously that is your last will (I have played the mod, with you actually) and you completely missed the point of that quotation. I was showing you that if you were dead, you would STILL want me dead, and you just claimed recently saying "i don't want to lynch you".

    2.) I have read the charts, and i doubt Mesk would assume i was claiming a role that isn't even on the chart. His confusion was based off a role ON the chart, Veteran isn't. Also, the point of what i said was to emphasise my point, saying that i would act that way if i was veteran.

    3.) #5 states, once again, that i jumped on you even though you just said i didn't. I don't consider me jumping on you because i didn't even vote you.

    4.) You tend to overreact everything. I never once said that i thought you were town, but at that point (aside from pandas first post) you were the only one leading conversations. At this point more people are talking (with the exception of Panda)

    5.) I could say that about anyone. If i defended Veri, you really think i would want him dead secretly, so i defend him to make you vote him and NOT ME, which would be 50/50, and in hopes that he dies which does not even make you look guilty (Atleast in my books, starting a lynch on someone doesn't make you scum".

    6.) Just because the questions are "basic" does not mean i will answer them the way she thinks an "ideal townie" is, therefore, if you want to tell me i failed a reaction test, make up a test and tell me i answered those questions wrong.
    I said focus on you, because in my conclusion based on day 1 I had you working with Sino. Goodness. I never said lynch you calm down. Also, forgot to delete that part, and I don't edit my post because I respect the rules.

    ALSO HOPE EVERYONE KNOWS THERE CAN BE NO OUT OF GAME CHATTING.

    2. the chart had nothing to do with you.

    3. You focused me, when there were other people to focus. As you're doing now.

    4. I'm not overracting to anything. I'm reacting as the game is meant for me to react to.

    5. Veri was a girl, and it was a theory. And anyone with a brain can see I was pushing hard for her, so of course it would make sense for you to come to her defense to make it look like I was witch hunting her when she came up town.

    6. Ok

  41. ISO #441

    Re: S-FM Matrix6 (Beginners Game)

    @Sino perhaps you should read the ENTIRE analysis, and not pull one part out.

    3. Renata: Her RQS still troubling. Immediately votes Sino, and afks. When she returns she offers a lot of valid information. However still only posts 8 times. Votes Mesk when that seemed to be consensus or where the focus was. Stayed out of the focus. Gives insight into the process, but why? Solid reasoning for voting Veri (possible Unknown collab). Didn’t want to hammer mesk who might be town. TOWN LEAN for now.


    -vote Sino

  42. ISO #442

  43. ISO #443

    Re: S-FM Matrix6 (Beginners Game)

    Quote Originally Posted by PowersThatBe View Post
    The value in understanding this as scum is that it gives you an idea of methods to avoid in order to gain more town cred and avoid slips. It can also provide you with more ways to manipulate players who do not understand these methods.

    Straw Man- Setting up a weak version of the opponent’s argument in order to discredit it.



    Red Herring- This is when someone draws the argument into a tangent proving that the tangent is correct and insinuating that it either proves their point or draws away from the original point.

    Unknown: With my including myself.
    Mesk: “So my question is about jailor and citizen.”
    Sino: It’s a frame job. Powers is defending himself too much.


    False Dichotomy- This is when a player trys to force you into choosing between 1 of 2 choices. Usually with one of them being obviously ridiculous

    Sino: Is PTB stupid or scum “Obviously scum is the ridiculous choice because he is scum and he knows his partner
    .

    Slippery Slope- Claiming that A will start a chain reaction leading to B then C then D and D has a dire consequence

    Sino: If you lynch him day 1 then that would lead to a mislynch and another town getting lynched Day 2.Because that person would be more suspect.


    Ad Hominem- This is when a player attacks a person in order to discredit their argument as opposed to addressing the argument Hasty Generalization- This is basically stereotypes.

    Mesk: Calling Panda a stupid bitch, calling me a stupid 3rd grader. “No one would give you psych degree.”


    Fallacy of Accident- This is usually when someone trys to cover a specific situation by citing a general rule when the situation is an exception to the rule

    Sino: Someone killed goatse to frame me. “In most cases, a person is killed in mafia because they’re too close to the source. Claiming the opposite is appealing to our sense that people kill people in mafia to frame is the rule when it is the exception. Perhaps it might be the rule in the mod, but we’re playing long form. Which is much different. And even so, you kill people in the mod who are invests or protective types. Rarely do you kill to frame someone else successfully.”

    Missing the point- The premises of the argument does not support the conclusion.

    Post Hoc- Assuming because B came after A, A caused B




    Weak Analogy-An analogy is not strong enough to support a conclusion

    Mesk: Because Veri was lynched, and flipped town, one or both mafia have to have voted for veri.

    Mesk: Oh I bet he’ll accuse me of voting Sino so I could fly under the radar.


    Begging the Question- This is basically circular reasoning

    Mesk: Am I scum acting citi or citi acting scum. Will you lynch me? WIFOM


    Appeal to Pitty- Forcing someone to feel sorry to accept a conclusion

    Mesk: I don’t understand the chart, so I made a mistake. I’m stupid.


    Appeal to Ignorance- If it can not be proven it must be false; or If it can not be disproved it must be true

    Sino: Goatse was killed to frame me. One or both of the mafia voted to lynch veri. Therefore he is being both framed, AND is town b/c he didn’t’ vote veri

    Mesk: Also with the chart. Cant prove that she knew the setup, cant disprove that she didn’t.


    Appeal to Unqualified Authority- Adding Ethos to an argument from a bias or unqualified source.

    Sino: Well he voted for Veri who was town so he has to be scum because Veri said he was

    Mesk: Also what Sino said to an extent. PTB Led the charge on Veri . Because Veri was town, MAFIA had to vote for her.



    I just wanted to put this out here, I plan to go back and see if anyone else has committed these undeniable fallacies of argument typically used by scum. I pulled this list from Helz guide on the forums to playing forum mafia. Add anyone you see fit, add me, go for it!
    And what about players clearly contradicting themselves ? Exactly like i said two posts above, but nope, you didn't see that, you still have one version and stick with it, trying all you can do to get people to lynch me.

    -vote PowersThatBe

  44. ISO #444

    Re: S-FM Matrix6 (Beginners Game)

    I didnt contradict myself, you didn't read the entire post. You also didn't take into consideration that I originally Leaned Renata as scum. And I leaned Veri and Goat as scum too. Clearly my initial reads were off as both of them turned out to be town. I said Renata leaned town after Day 1, she has done nothing since to lean scum.

    You leaned town originally for me and now you are heavily scum. Pushing my lynch for mislynching veri, you're doing this with mesk. As scum would do.

    I have been consistent all game. There is no reason to believe renata to be scum.

  45. ISO #445

    Re: S-FM Matrix6 (Beginners Game)

    Quote Originally Posted by PowersThatBe View Post


    Potential Scum:

    1. Renata: This post seems to suggest we should trust renata because she values “truth” and believes that is a qualifying town aspect, perhaps to paint herself as town. “Town. Things get rough, at least you got the truth on your side.”

    2. Veri: As you can see, she goes to great lengths to describe why town is the best possible role. And doing everything to set up a contrast of why being a scum would be terrible to her. This was not asked in the question, and her answer does very little to add more to the answer. A definite attempt at gaining our trust. Also, edited her post for “grammar” —or did she slip up and try to fix it by going around the rules?

    “Definitely town. I always prefer town, I like the strategical aspect of the game in terms of finding out who's evil - I often feel like mafia is just about hoping not to be checked by some invest role because town loves to lynch no matter how good your defense is.”

    3. Goatse: After a claim of being a high stakes poker player, goat goes on to give us a bit of jumbledness that will ultimately be an attempted mind fuck. Also, given his “1st post, scum tell.” Attempt, I believe he could potentially be playing at a super intricate reverse psychology. He does everything in his power to establish how much he dislikes evil roles, but then goes on to state how interesting it would be to try and get us to mislynch. He’s putting the information out there in hopes that we misread read it as a townie trying to lead the charge.

    “Honestly, I rolequit or afk in the mod as evil roles because to me the fun comes from reading other players and scumhunting through chat tells, but I feel that the potential to mislead the town and the increased reliance on typing/staying in the public light wohld be very fun in more skilled games like FM. But so far I prefer to only play as town.”

    More analysis will come in a second post focusing on the next answered question, and relating it to this one above.
    As I've said, I leaned her scum originally shes changed my position.

  46. ISO #446

    Re: S-FM Matrix6 (Beginners Game)

    Mesk: “So my question is about jailor and citizen.”
    Are you still on this chart shit?
    Mesk: Also with the chart. Cant prove that she knew the setup, cant disprove that she didn’t.
    LOL day 1 I legit had to ask my mentor if there were 3 mafia cause I DIDNT UNDERSTAND THE CHART AND THERE WERE 3 MAFIA IN THE CHART.

    I kid you not I thought that I was 1 town special role, 2mafia and the rest citizens. WHICH IS WHY I SAID THERES NO SHERIFF BECAUSE I THOUGHT THE TOWN SPECIAL ROLE WAS A DOCTOR

    Mesk: Also what Sino said to an extent. PTB Led the charge on Veri . Because Veri was town, MAFIA had to vote for her.
    I don't know if you can read but I said atlas 100 times that I think you're scum because you're white knighting, trying to be town saviour, has nothing to do with you starting the lynch train on @Veri , which I have no shame in saying I totally followed.

    Mesk: I don’t understand the chart, so I made a mistake. I’m stupid.
    ^^ This again comes from a player who was mason and was truly convinced a Survivor was cult when Immunity prevents conversion was turned on. But hey, mistakes make you stupid right, so gimme your address so i can send you you're certified stupid certificate.

    Mesk: Calling Panda a stupid bitch, calling me a stupid 3rd grader. “No one would give you psych degree.”
    If @Panda can't except my apology her and I can discuss it later, but I honestly do believe you need some help with the issues you have going on in your head.

    I am naturally a scummy person and the only person who really seems to be pointing it out is Powers.
    so I'm just gonna say this.

    IT TAKES SCUM TO REALLY KNOW SCUM

  47. ISO #447

  48. ISO #448

  49. ISO #449

  50. ISO #450

 

 

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