S-FM 317: Eternia [LADDER]

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Im just going to suspiciously vanish to go grab some tacos right now >.>

Rofl ok, I'm going to go too anyway. I have my eyes on you and on your tacos, though.

[MattZed]

Just so nobody misses it
If anyone is the Insane Harpy you should claim and we will lynch you.

Now that's the spirit!

For the record, I'm not an Insane Harpy.

[MattZed]

I also feel like a soul ripper is very unlikely. (I am just going to start referring to that role as a fucking scum bus driver..)

The Mafia faction has no KpN forcing the kills to come from town misslynches or a Senator. Its host meta but I would be very surprised if the Mafia did not have at least some killing utility. If we have any Neutral other than Senator Hitman would be most likely while Kidnapper provides utility with a kill but Assassin allows for one insta-kill that bypasses any chance to be seen or protected

I don't see how this game could be fair for mafia without Hitman. If they only have one killing role (assuming no senator), then Mafia needs to guarantee THREE more misyeets than correct yeets in order to win. That's a pretty tough order, and they'd probably need to counter-claim a TPR at some point.

We're not going to be caught off guard by a Senator; if they exist, we'll start seeing demands shortly.

[Helz]

We're not going to be caught off guard by a Senator; if they exist, we'll start seeing demands shortly.

Sure, But the kills will just be a wipe at some point.

I would also like to very specifically avoid any talk about potential demands. If there is a Senator we would just be coaching him to what his best plays would be.

[MattZed]

Sure, But the kills will just be a wipe at some point.

I would also like to very specifically avoid any talk about potential demands. If there is a Senator we would just be coaching him to what his best plays would be.

Definitely want to guard against coaching scum. Reading back last game, I noticed how much "let's muddy the waters for the future" you were up to. <_<

[Helz]

Definitely want to guard against coaching scum. Reading back last game, I noticed how much "let's muddy the waters for the future" you were up to. <_<

That was literally a lot of my play. I was laying out whats optimal for town to point to whats optimal for scum. When I laid out that mechanical construct I was specifically pushing to my fellow wolves that one of them should claim Citizen because it opens the PoE

[MattZed]

That was literally a lot of my play. I was laying out whats optimal for town to point to whats optimal for scum. When I laid out that mechanical construct I was specifically pushing to my fellow wolves that one of them should claim Citizen because it opens the PoE

You powerwolfed that game without even seeming like a powerwolf. We were all so dispirited D4 because of the effort you put into being all "the game is mechanically solved, not much more to do here."

I'm expecting some powertowning out of you this game. :P

While we're the only two here, anyone you're getting a gut read on? Right now I'm inclined to believe Mesk's town claim. Most people from last game are acting like they did before, (Frinckles, Oberon) but FrostByte is seeming more shitposty than before.

(and don't you dare give me an overstated ISO. I want to know how you're feeling about people *at this moment*.)

[MattZed]

@Mike , I see you and expect you to join in on the Random Vote Stage!

[Helz]

You powerwolfed that game without even seeming like a powerwolf. We were all so dispirited D4 because of the effort you put into being all "the game is mechanically solved, not much more to do here."

I'm expecting some powertowning out of you this game. :P

While we're the only two here, anyone you're getting a gut read on? Right now I'm inclined to believe Mesk's town claim. Most people from last game are acting like they did before, (Frinckles, Oberon) but FrostByte is seeming more shitposty than before.

(and don't you dare give me an overstated ISO. I want to know how you're feeling about people *at this moment*.)

Lol.
Yeah, I don't know if anyone else has played with game moral to push win-con but its something I do from time to time. I wanted wolves to push harder for their win and town to get lazy. Unknown carried our team that game though.

Marshmallow Marshall gets the very slightest of town points from me for his focus to break RvS. He is actively working to push the game into a playable state which is critically important for us today given that a D1 lynch is mandatory.

Oberon also gets the very slightest of town points for hitting on PR hunting. The 3 games I have read through or played which he was in he hits on that tell literally every game as town. I dont know his meta to know if he would do the same as scum but take that for what it is. That post was consistent with the way he views Mafia

I will do some town lead plays this game but keep in mind I will also have decent chunks of non-participation. I was really hopeing that the game would start next week and almost immediately subbed out but I really like the player line up and it was hard for me to pass up you calling me out for a re-match.

[Mike]

I will be a vanguard to your directive, fellow wolf.

How DARE you Cheat on me. You told me in Mafia chat you would not look at any other partners.

[Helz]

That post was consistent with the way he views Mafia

^As a game I mean in relation to how he understands and undertakes scum hunting

[Mike]

Efekannn02 Here I Will Lynch All Evils And Idiots
(actually im thinking dark behind hehe)
MM Is Scum Or A Idiot

Any one claims that earns my vote now and always

-vote Oberon

[Mike]

naw they cit

Is this TMI?

[Helz]

Is this TMI?

There isnt anyone that could have a TMI slip on PR vs Cit right now regardless of role or alignment without OOG cheating.

[Mike]

Just so nobody misses it
If anyone is the Insane Harpy you should claim and we will lynch you.

Aivion the JESTER KING all over again lol.

[Mike]

@Mike , I see you and expect you to join in on the Random Vote Stage!

I was catching up.

[MattZed]

I was catching up.

Do you have any gut townreads/scumreads right now?

[MattZed]

@Frinckles , last game you were inclined to think that the low posters were scum.

Do you feel that way this game?

[Mike]

There isnt anyone that could have a TMI slip on PR vs Cit right now regardless of role or alignment without OOG cheating.

I am referring to knowing if they are town. Don't care about then if they are Cit or PR it is day 1.

Mesk can be Cit, PR, Neutral or Mafia. But the "naw they cit" can be TMI or just a strong read. But to catch mafia it is the small things people over look. is how you find them.

[MattZed]

@Auwt , I see @Stealthbomber16 commenting on the setup thread. Please clarify if his interpretations or your initial ones will be dictating this game.

[MattZed]

I am referring to knowing if they are town. Don't care about then if they are Cit or PR it is day 1.

Mesk can be Cit, PR, Neutral or Mafia. But the "naw they cit" can be TMI or just a strong read. But to catch mafia it is the small things people over look. is how you find them.

It's been quite some time since we last played. Are you a subscriber to the "just look for the subtle scumslips" theory? Or do you have a different way of scumhunting?

[Mike]

Do you have any gut townreads/scumreads right now?

no scum reads. but scum leans are You, Oberon, Mesk, Frinckles, and MM. Only town lean i have is Helz. Yes I understand in this setup only 2 scum. but This is what I have so fare like i said no real Scum reads just scum leans. and not hard town reads just a Slight town lean.

[Mike]

It's been quite some time since we last played. Are you a subscriber to the "just look for the subtle scumslips" theory? Or do you have a different way of scumhunting?

Yes and No. They help but town can scum slip as well. What I look for is the Opportunities. See who bites. Type.

[Mike]

so, @MattZed Why are you wanting to know my scum hunting practices. Trying to avoid something?

[MattZed]

so, @MattZed Why are you wanting to know my scum hunting practices. Trying to avoid something?

I'm trying to see where you're coming from so I can tell if you're faking it later.

My current scumhunting technique, which you may have seen at the end of last game, is to first characterize players as high effort/low effort, then decide if they're town/scum based on that perspective. (low effort players probably aren't powerwolves, and high effort players probably aren't lurker scum)

For what it's worth, you're seeming on the high effort side. I expect good things out of you if you're town.

[Helz]

I am referring to knowing if they are town. Don't care about then if they are Cit or PR it is day 1.

Mesk can be Cit, PR, Neutral or Mafia. But the "naw they cit" can be TMI or just a strong read. But to catch mafia it is the small things people over look. is how you find them.

no scum reads. but scum leans are You, Oberon, Mesk, Frinckles, and MM. Only town lean i have is Helz. Yes I understand in this setup only 2 scum. but This is what I have so fare like i said no real Scum reads just scum leans. and not hard town reads just a Slight town lean.

Like if someone was to say.. View the game as Themselves, Town, and 2 Mafia such as a Neutral would for example?

[Mike]

I'm trying to see where you're coming from so I can tell if you're faking it later.

My current scumhunting technique, which you may have seen at the end of last game, is to first characterize players as high effort/low effort, then decide if they're town/scum based on that perspective. (low effort players probably aren't powerwolves, and high effort players probably aren't lurker scum)

For what it's worth, you're seeming on the high effort side. I expect good things out of you if you're town.

Do you expect good things from me if I am not TOwn?

[Mike]

Like if someone was to say.. View the game as Themselves, Town, and 2 Mafia such as a Neutral would for example?

Good point.

[MattZed]

Do you expect good things from me if I am not TOwn?

I expect interesting things if you're scum. I would certainly take a lot of pride in taking you down if you're a powerwolf. Especially after I missed the powerwolves last game.

[Helz]

Good point.

I did also note how you specifically said 'To catch mafia' which would also reflect a neutral mindset.

I suppose you are my first suspect although the day is young and the tell is very soft.

[Mike]

I expect interesting things if you're scum. I would certainly take a lot of pride in taking you down if you're a powerwolf. Especially after I missed the powerwolves last game.

I do not know what to make of you yet MatZed. If you are town and we can find each other would be a fun game. Only problem is finding if you town or mafia Pocketing me. Last few games Mafia has pocketed me. MM has been every good at pocketing me. Martian had me Hard pocketed. So there is that paranoia.

Your posts can be eather way. Mafia trying to Control the town and pocket players. Or Town trying to get reads on people. Question what side of the coin are you?

[Mike]

I did also note how you specifically said 'To catch mafia' which would also reflect a neutral mindset.

I suppose you are my first suspect although the day is young and the tell is very soft.

ROFLOL.

Yes I tend to roll Neutral alot. but I can assure you this game I am not neutral.

I truly wish I was Neutral in this setup. But alas I did not rng it this time.

I get your reads and what you say make sense. But why cant I also be in the mind set that I am mafia And I am trying to discredit him and scum paint him? Why can I only be Neutral?

[Mike]

Watch and learn @MattZed

Class 101 how to scum hunt lol.

[Mike]

I had better stop or mafia will prob use this and claim I am really mafia and get me mislynched lol.

[Helz]

I get your reads and what you say make sense. But why cant I also be in the mind set that I am mafia And I am trying to discredit him and scum paint him? Why can I only be Neutral?

I am not saying you could not be Mafia at all. And to be fair the first post where you said 'To catch Mafia' was in context to a response on your comment that Frinckles could be Mafia making it totally NAI. I just poked at it for the reaction test.

My point that your second comment that theres only 2 scum in the game is very specifically a potential TMI slip as a neutral because thats exactly how they would view the game. I found it particularly amusing in that it was in context to talking about a potential Frinckles TMI as well as touching on the finer points of identifying tells.

Why did you feel my suggestion voiced that I thought you could be only and specifically Neutral?

[MattZed]

@Mike , you are a WIFOM machine right now.

[Mike]

I will give a honest read. Normally people who vote people not playing the current game when everyone is voting tends to be scum afraid of pissing off a town and shinning light on them. @Oberon . My vote is not a fake vote.

[Mike]

I am not saying you could not be Mafia at all. And to be fair the first post where you said 'To catch Mafia' was in context to a response on your comment that Frinckles could be Mafia making it totally NAI. I just poked at it for the reaction test.

My point that your second comment that theres only 2 scum in the game is very specifically a potential TMI slip as a neutral because thats exactly how they would view the game. I found it particularly amusing in that it was in context to talking about a potential Frinckles TMI as well as touching on the finer points of identifying tells.

Why did you feel my suggestion voiced that I thought you could be only and specifically Neutral?

and this is why i have a town lean on you. not a neutral not a mafia but a town lean.

[MattZed]

I will give a honest read. Normally people who vote people not playing the current game when everyone is voting tends to be scum afraid of pissing off a town and shinning light on them. @Oberon . My vote is not a fake vote.

Please explain more why your vote isn't fake.

[Mike]

I am not saying you could not be Mafia at all. And to be fair the first post where you said 'To catch Mafia' was in context to a response on your comment that Frinckles could be Mafia making it totally NAI. I just poked at it for the reaction test.

My point that your second comment that theres only 2 scum in the game is very specifically a potential TMI slip as a neutral because thats exactly how they would view the game. I found it particularly amusing in that it was in context to talking about a potential Frinckles TMI as well as touching on the finer points of identifying tells.

Why did you feel my suggestion voiced that I thought you could be only and specifically Neutral?

and to answer your question I did not. I was reaction testing you.

[MattZed]

For the record, I'm feeling pretty good about Helz+Mike. Both have that high-level town attitude of poking and prodding but with a little bit of WIFOM to try to get scum to slip up.

But I do want to hear more from Mike on why Oberon isn't random this early in the game.

[Mesk514]

wew, studying so activity from me will be periodic cause yeah... exam week. I've always had the problem of catching up when the thread blows up and I don't return quickly enough to catch up, some I'm trying to touch base frequently.

So far lots of fluff, but I believe some people have less sincere fluff than others. Piggybacking on shit is SUSPICIOUSSSSSSS when you're just repeating general shit or making blanket statements.

JUSSSST SAYING

[Mesk514]

I guess I realize i myself just made a blanket fluffy statement, but too early to pull up supporting arguments/too busy to do it right now. BUT BARE WITH ME

[MattZed]

wew, studying so activity from me will be periodic cause yeah... exam week. I've always had the problem of catching up when the thread blows up and I don't return quickly enough to catch up, some I'm trying to touch base frequently.

So far lots of fluff, but I believe some people have less sincere fluff than others. Piggybacking on shit is SUSPICIOUSSSSSSS when you're just repeating general shit or making blanket statements.

JUSSSST SAYING

Are you going to name names or just claim that *someone* is being suspicious?

[Mike]

Please explain more why your vote isn't fake.

Oberon is Voting someone who is not in the game right now.
Town mindset for voting now is to make sure you don't put anyone in hammer range but have fun voting.
Scum mindset is crap I have to vote someone I don't want to be outed but I don't want to vote my partner because if I flip I may out them. I don't want to vote a town because they may check me for voting. Well I can vote someone not in game and this way I don't piss anyone off.

That is just my view.

[MattZed]

I guess I realize i myself just made a blanket fluffy statement, but too early to pull up supporting arguments/too busy to do it right now. BUT BARE WITH ME

At least you're self aware...

ETA on when you can contribute more?

[Mike]

Oberon is Voting someone who is not in the game right now.
Town mindset for voting now is to make sure you don't put anyone in hammer range but have fun voting.
Scum mindset is crap I have to vote someone I don't want to be outed but I don't want to vote my partner because if I flip I may out them. I don't want to vote a town because they may check me for voting. Well I can vote someone not in game and this way I don't piss anyone off.

That is just my view.

Oberon (2 [L-3]):
MattZed, Mike
Helz (1 [L-4]):
Marshmallow Marshall
FrostByte (1 [L-4]):
Frinckles
MattZed (1 [L-4]):
Mesk514
Marshmallow Marshall (1 [L-4]):
FrostByte
Stealthbomber16 (1 [L-4]):
Oberon

[Mike]

At least you're self aware...

ETA on when you can contribute more?

by vote logic eather me and you are MAfia teammates. and we are both hard open wolfing or
Oberon at L3 and no one jumping on that is sus also he is voting SB16.

I am going to step away becuse the more I look at it the more I want to tunnel my read. I will post more later when I have a clear mindset.

[Oberon]

Yawn

[Mesk514]

At least you're self aware...

ETA on when you can contribute more?

I mean, It's day one and a few hours into the game. Not much to contribute either way. I don't believe setup speculation really does anything and then regular day 1 blah with people joining in pretending.

I however shall not fake my participation, you pretty much get what ya get while I take my time forming educated opinions based on things I can reinforce.