S-FM 319: ILLUMINΔTI (Ladder) 9P

[Marshmallow Marshall]

ahem

I am sheriff, Renegade is mafia

(for realzies this time)

LOL
I love it XD

This makes things even better. If Renegade flips mafia (and actually in any case imo, but ESPECIALLY if Renegade flips mafia), check Mattzed's slot.

@Auwt

Fine, I will help you out.

By some perverse coincidence, I actually checked renegade last night like mesk falsely claimed, and renegade did appear as mafia.

This is not a second gambit (that would be dumb). This is 100% serious. I tried to crumb yesterday (IRL yesterday) that I was also sheriff when I randomly brought up the possibility of 2 sherrifs to mesk. But I'm awful at softclaims and have no idea whether I did it well.

Anyway, this day is evidently not heading anywhere fast, and there's a good chance I'll be dead tomorrow with a wiped lw. So I may as well reveal this information now. Auwt, if you are town and townread me, you now know renegade is mafia and there is no illuminati. Your objective is clearly to ensure renegade is lynched today.

Perhaps I speak from a tunnel, but I struggle to imagine a world where the scumteam is not mattzed / renegade. Almost the only way matt interacted with renegade was to probe renegade about his voting interests. And it is certainly correct to probe your mafia teammate for their voting interests in this setup (or feign probing). He handled renegade with mitts for the entire day.

Oh well, I wrote the comments above without reading this, and now that I read it, you had already said what I said lol. 100 % agreed.
I am very interested in seeing Auwt's reaction to this, btw.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

The Q is whether there really is an illuminati (and I suppose will remain the Q for the rest of the game).

I could still be swayed either way, but various things indicate to me that there is an illuminati. But I'll abstain from final judgement for now.

If we lynch the mafia (probably Renegade and Mattzed's slot) and that the game is still not over, well, we go ahead and lynch Auwt. There will be no more nightkills, since the Mafia will be dead, which least at most 1 illuminati with no night kill. That is quite nice. I trust you as non-Illuminati, Martin is a confirmed non-llluminati, I strongly doubt DM/SB is Illuminati, and I know I'm not Illuminati. I'd say that's a path to victory, no matter what happens, if we manage to lynch the Mafia right now.

P.S. if you decide to lynch me for posting a path to victory like you did in Eternia, I'm gonna haunt your asses and @Oberon 's ghost for all eternity

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Oh yea and Mesk is very probably town too, adding her to the list

[bakermir]

baker too, but I'll let him catch up.

I see where you are coming from yzb. Maybe there is already some mason-mason or gf-consig conflict we don't know about, we don't know this atm..

How can we confirm illuminati? We can eliminate someone for it OR vigi and martin shoots one at night. Remember, GF sanitizes kills. This is why I am quite annoyed at people not pushing for a flip eod1. CFD mattzed or frinckles = we see the role and solve the setup from there. Now we will never know what Frinckles was. My guess is that they were most likely VT but I am more interested in a massclaim here I think given the small amount of players we can't really gamble here anymore on D2. There are too many risks.

Like, what if Martin is fake? I think he isn't for reasons (basically meta) but if the player wasn't Martin but anyone else, do you people think it would be safe to take their claim for granted? I don't think Martin would fake claim a role d1 but then I always get bamboozled by them like last game I played with him, I was only able to PoE them near the end because he rarely does scummy things and I don't think I have ever seen him do fake claims. Martin is a busser though so their check on Auwt could be fake for ML or real SvS check.. I mean, there is a chance both Martin and Auwt being illuminati here and that means Consigliere is Mafia because GF will be killed at night while Martin gets confirmed against the real theorist and town vigi.. Martin could be mafia here too.. IF Martin is truly conspiracy dude then they can only confirm illuminati if they coordinate with town tpr's. Seeing Martin was one of the people that didn't prevent sleep, I don't know if I can trust them fully right now.




If I am mason or mafia I would have suspected the other person btw Like cmon, why wouldn't you? Only mafia, illuminati or masons would know if there is illuminati or not because of night chat they have. But then, why would they push for it when setup isn't even confirmed yet so all I think is mafia and masons don't know this yet. IDK I think this whole thing looks like speculating at this point. I would rather know why a CFD didn't happen eod1 and what were people thinking with that sleep.

also GF NK on Frinckles could be a topic of discussion too. MattZed and Frinckles were top wagons yesterday, I know I replaced MattZed but I don't think they were scummy overall. They were rather enthusiastic about setup and I think they were trying to save themselves from ML instead of Frinckles there because MattZed's rolecard and Frinckles wifom their role. I think Frinckles was rather towny with that wifom btw so I don't really understand why Mattzed and Frinckles were top wagons to begin with. Overall d1 of this game looks like shit and I blame MM and DM for it, also the off wagon voters..

[Mesk514]

I'm pretty sure we're all in agreeance that Martin is the CT

[bakermir]

I did vote MZ in order to see if we would get a lynch or not.

Frinckles unvoted immediately:



Which basically said everything about us not getting a lynch.

IF you were town friendly you would have voted anyone for flip. It seems like you only read conspiracy theorist role but forget about no flip mechanics of mafia NK. Town has to flip someone D1 to get information especially in this setup. You are pushing it off on dead Frinckles here and not really a reason why you shouldn't vote if you are town friendly

[Marshmallow Marshall]

How do you feel about renegade being given the chance to kill his teammate (whomever it might be)?

There's a few ways we can go about this and I would prefer if you gave me any idea as to what that should be.

One is to have me shoot either MZ or Auwt while we lynch Renegade and etc.

If there IS illuminati though having me check a 2nd time could be a very bad idea which puts us (presuming !non-illuminati Renegade) down to 4v3.

Assuming there IS Illuminati:
If we lynch a non-Illuminati today and if we assume Frinckles was not Illuminati, and then if Mafia kills a non-Illuminati tonight, and that you check someone tonight, that brings us down to 3v3. This can only happen if we lynch the wrong mafia member (the one who's not illuminati) or if Yzb is full of shit. While I'm willing to lose to the latter, the former is too possible to be dismissed imo. This means if we lynch Mafia tonight, you probably should shoot Auwt, just in case. If we're in a non-illuminati setup, it won't hurt us too much anyway since the last scum should be relatively easy to find, unless he managed to get widely townread (which would be yzb, and as I said, I'm willing to lose to a scum!yzb world).

Also, although Auwt seemed towny early on, it seems he has coasted away with his townpoints, which doesn't look good, so I'm not closed to the possibility of Illuminati!Auwt.

[bakermir]

I know I am not sover and I am hungry also so it is making me grumpy but I have read the setup and observed the game carefully. You all fucked up big time with no flip d1 and I am not really letting that slide

[Mesk514]

I know I am not sover and I am hungry also so it is making me grumpy but I have read the setup and observed the game carefully. You all fucked up big time with no flip d1 and I am not really letting that slide

enlighten me, what do you suggest we do?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I see where you are coming from yzb. Maybe there is already some mason-mason or gf-consig conflict we don't know about, we don't know this atm..

How can we confirm illuminati? We can eliminate someone for it OR vigi and martin shoots one at night. Remember, GF sanitizes kills. This is why I am quite annoyed at people not pushing for a flip eod1. CFD mattzed or frinckles = we see the role and solve the setup from there. Now we will never know what Frinckles was. My guess is that they were most likely VT but I am more interested in a massclaim here I think given the small amount of players we can't really gamble here anymore on D2. There are too many risks.

Like, what if Martin is fake? I think he isn't for reasons (basically meta) but if the player wasn't Martin but anyone else, do you people think it would be safe to take their claim for granted? I don't think Martin would fake claim a role d1 but then I always get bamboozled by them like last game I played with him, I was only able to PoE them near the end because he rarely does scummy things and I don't think I have ever seen him do fake claims. Martin is a busser though so their check on Auwt could be fake for ML or real SvS check.. I mean, there is a chance both Martin and Auwt being illuminati here and that means Consigliere is Mafia because GF will be killed at night while Martin gets confirmed against the real theorist and town vigi.. Martin could be mafia here too.. IF Martin is truly conspiracy dude then they can only confirm illuminati if they coordinate with town tpr's. Seeing Martin was one of the people that didn't prevent sleep, I don't know if I can trust them fully right now.




If I am mason or mafia I would have suspected the other person btw Like cmon, why wouldn't you? Only mafia, illuminati or masons would know if there is illuminati or not because of night chat they have. But then, why would they push for it when setup isn't even confirmed yet so all I think is mafia and masons don't know this yet. IDK I think this whole thing looks like speculating at this point. I would rather know why a CFD didn't happen eod1 and what were people thinking with that sleep.

also GF NK on Frinckles could be a topic of discussion too. MattZed and Frinckles were top wagons yesterday, I know I replaced MattZed but I don't think they were scummy overall. They were rather enthusiastic about setup and I think they were trying to save themselves from ML instead of Frinckles there because MattZed's rolecard and Frinckles wifom their role. I think Frinckles was rather towny with that wifom btw so I don't really understand why Mattzed and Frinckles were top wagons to begin with. Overall d1 of this game looks like shit and I blame MM and DM for it, also the off wagon voters..

If we eliminate the Mafia and the game isn't over, then we know there's Illuminati. It seems to be the only way to confirm it.

Illuminati don't flip as Illuminati. The flip wouldn't have helped us that much; we'd probably just have a green Citizen flip if we had lynched Frinckles (no matter his real alignment). In fact, him being nightkilled may be more telling than him being lynched, since I doubt the illuminati mafia would let a teammate get killed like this (even if he didn't control the nightkill as consig, he could likely still talk the GF out of it).

If Martin's claim is fake, the real conspiracy theorist who didn't CC is basically playing against himself at this point. Plus, Martin is proposing to shoot someone, which he couldn't do as non-CT (if he were godfather, he would automatically sanitize, so it'd be obvious). I am ruling this possibility out completely.

Oh yea, I'm not sure I said anything about that but if I were mafia or mason, I would suspect my teammate.

I disagree that "D1 was shit". Many interactions were made, good setup discussion came out, Martin's claim is done and helped us establish a PoE, etc. But more importantly, I'd like to know which conclusion you draw from "blaming MM and DM for [the shit D1]" about our alignments.

[bakermir]

enlighten me, what do you suggest we do?

hi mesk

I am thinking but IDK yet. I don't want to lose this game so I need to consider all possibilities here with yzb, renegade, martin, auwt

[bakermir]

If we eliminate the Mafia and the game isn't over, then we know there's Illuminati. It seems to be the only way to confirm it.

Illuminati don't flip as Illuminati. The flip wouldn't have helped us that much; we'd probably just have a green Citizen flip if we had lynched Frinckles (no matter his real alignment). In fact, him being nightkilled may be more telling than him being lynched, since I doubt the illuminati mafia would let a teammate get killed like this (even if he didn't control the nightkill as consig, he could likely still talk the GF out of it).

If Martin's claim is fake, the real conspiracy theorist who didn't CC is basically playing against himself at this point. Plus, Martin is proposing to shoot someone, which he couldn't do as non-CT (if he were godfather, he would automatically sanitize, so it'd be obvious). I am ruling this possibility out completely.

Oh yea, I'm not sure I said anything about that but if I were mafia or mason, I would suspect my teammate.

I disagree that "D1 was shit". Many interactions were made, good setup discussion came out, Martin's claim is done and helped us establish a PoE, etc. But more importantly, I'd like to know which conclusion you draw from "blaming MM and DM for [the shit D1]" about our alignments.

MM I have been reading you very carefully this game because you were one of the people I read as scum. I know MAttZed had you on Town but I think your D1 is quite suspicious. Now YZB claim makes things a bit complicated for me so I will have to reevaluate things here. I thought rene was scummy d1 and coming to d2 I have found their effort quite towny in contrast to their scummy d1.


I know illuminati don't flip as illuminati. I specifically said we see the flipped role so we can solve the setup from there. Mafia is already ahead of town with a sanitized kill. I know I am town and if Frinckles was green then yeah D1 wagons were most likely town/town. If Frinckles was pink then GF is clearly red here and consig is pink.

This brings us to yzb vs renegade I think..


We could try solving from here but I don't know why yzb didn't vote renegade here. Can we all just massclaim?? What do you guys think about that?

[bakermir]

@Renegade

claim your role dude.


Did you RB me last night? Or was it Auwt?

If YZB is truly sheriff then you are mafia. If you claim your role now, we can actually re evaluate this better. I don't have a good feeling about this

[bakermir]

@Marshmallow Marshall

claim your role

lets go

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I think at this point, we should strive to eliminate the "escape claims" by making everyone claim, so I agree. I'll claim if we come to an agreement on that matter.
Renegade should definetly claim, though, since he's very likely to be today's lynch.

I agree that we're in a yzb vs renegade situation here, and there's no damn world in which I am not voting Renegade over Yzb, both because of my read on yzb this game (prior to his claim) and because his claim, if it were fake, would doom him after Renegade's flip.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Baker, why is my D1 "quite suspicious", pray tell? You haven't explained that yet about either me or DM's slot.

[Renegade]

I think at this point, we should strive to eliminate the "escape claims" by making everyone claim, so I agree. I'll claim if we come to an agreement on that matter.
Renegade should definetly claim, though, since he's very likely to be today's lynch.

I agree that we're in a yzb vs renegade situation here, and there's no damn world in which I am not voting Renegade over Yzb, both because of my read on yzb this game (prior to his claim) and because his claim, if it were fake, would doom him after Renegade's flip.

I'm the doctor.

I was roleblocked last night.

And of course, there is no world you would vote yzb over me because of his and your history here. Vet meta bullshite. You know the drill.

[bakermir]

I think at this point, we should strive to eliminate the "escape claims" by making everyone claim, so I agree. I'll claim if we come to an agreement on that matter.
Renegade should definetly claim, though, since he's very likely to be today's lynch.

I agree that we're in a yzb vs renegade situation here, and there's no damn world in which I am not voting Renegade over Yzb, both because of my read on yzb this game (prior to his claim) and because his claim, if it were fake, would doom him after Renegade's flip.

I don't know if yzb is a liar or not or rene here. That's why I am just trying to see other worlds here. 9P game feels small and joining on d2 puts a lot of pressure on me. I am not trying to clear yzb or rene here btw but I am quite disappointed at that whole DADV push yall put on both Frinckles and Mattzed.


I do however agree yzb could be telling the truth. I am just trying to see if we can afford a failure today or not. On that note, my votes have been shit lately in games here, I do tend to get anxious and choke when it is the time for decision making, I give that to my lack of experience + high skill level of players on this site which drives me hella paranoid

[bakermir]

Baker, why is my D1 "quite suspicious", pray tell? You haven't explained that yet about either me or DM's slot.

sure, I will get on to it. I honestly think you are scum but if you can prove me wrong then I take that as a win because I know where to look next.

[Mesk514]

I don't know if yzb is a liar or not or rene here.

i feel like if he was really a rb'd doc then that would have been the first thing he said when i accused him of being a consig/mafia....

[MartinGG99]

Stealing Grant's (from MU) quote snipping [...]'s.

How can we confirm illuminati? We can eliminate someone for it OR vigi and martin shoots one at night. [...]

Like, what if Martin is fake? [...] Seeing Martin was one of the people that didn't prevent sleep, I don't know if I can trust them fully right now. [...]

also GF NK on Frinckles could be a topic of discussion too. [...]

1. Illuminati don't flip as their real illuminati alignment. Ever.

2. *Ahem* Are you sure you're bakermir? On the one hand I applaud your paranoia here but on the other I am annoyed by how ridiculous of a suggestion that is. Do you really think a !scum (as in, non-CT) martin would fake CT by instantly hard-claiming and revealing a plan to recant n1?

3. Technically everyone didn't prevent sleep if you're going to argue this since sleep did in fact happen; additionally my clear attempt to prevent sleep actually caused people (you know, like the now-dead town) to remove their vote. So, I removed my vote in hopes that he would put it back and that I would be there for a hammer in the future. If I were at all concerned about making sure sleep happens, I wouldn't have been at EoD in the first place.

3. With regards to the Frinckles kill, I was intentionally scum-reading him a fair bit to try and ensure he wouldn't get shot in the night. To me, he was a likely vigilante candidate given some of his discussions with me or his posts and so I scum-read him a fair bit, and when it came to EoD I emphasized that I didn't think he was ever a worthy D1 lynch. Unfortunately, he died anyways.

[MartinGG99]

IF you were town friendly you would have voted anyone for flip. It seems like you only read conspiracy theorist role but forget about no flip mechanics of mafia NK. Town has to flip someone D1 to get information especially in this setup. You are pushing it off on dead Frinckles here and not really a reason why you shouldn't vote if you are town friendly

Well, why don't you ask the other towns as to why they didn't vote anyone for a flip to happen?

Do you seriously think this disproves that I am a town-minded CT?

I didn't forget about the flip mechanics for mafia kills. Nothing is going to prevent the mafia kill unless someone doctors them. The only thing we know about the kill is that they're 100% non-mafia, as mafia team kills don't sanitize. If they for some reason do for the GF but not the Consig then I would find that somewhat questionable for the setup.

[MartinGG99]

I agree that we're in a yzb vs renegade situation here, and there's no damn world in which I am not voting Renegade over Yzb, both because of my read on yzb this game (prior to his claim) and because his claim, if it were fake, would doom him after Renegade's flip.

Not to mention I can shoot Yzb25 if I want to.

Actually, I probably would if Renegade wasn't a red flip.

And then Recant on N3 and hope I get Survivor.

[bakermir]

Stealing Grant's (from MU) quote snipping [...]'s.



1. Illuminati don't flip as their real illuminati alignment. Ever.

2. *Ahem* Are you sure you're bakermir? On the one hand I applaud your paranoia here but on the other I am annoyed by how ridiculous of a suggestion that is. Do you really think a !scum (as in, non-CT) martin would fake CT by instantly hard-claiming and revealing a plan to recant n1?

3. Technically everyone didn't prevent sleep if you're going to argue this since sleep did in fact happen; additionally my clear attempt to prevent sleep actually caused people (you know, like the now-dead town) to remove their vote. So, I removed my vote in hopes that he would put it back and that I would be there for a hammer in the future. If I were at all concerned about making sure sleep happens, I wouldn't have been at EoD in the first place.

3. With regards to the Frinckles kill, I was intentionally scum-reading him a fair bit to try and ensure he wouldn't get shot in the night. To me, he was a likely vigilante candidate given some of his discussions with me or his posts and so I scum-read him a fair bit, and when it came to EoD I emphasized that I didn't think he was ever a worthy D1 lynch. Unfortunately, he died anyways.

I think you are CT because of your second point precisely. I would never expect you to do such a thing. I think I am at peace with your claim, I was only trying to see what if it wasn't real.


as for 1. I typed that post in a hurry as I always do with my posts. I will structure it better. I know illuminati doesn't flip. I just don't think we should go with your checks without getting a second check at least. I recommend you check MM or YZB here. trust me on this martin.

as for 3. I didn't really see them being vigilante honestly but I NK smells like fear to me instead of a TPR read.

[bakermir]

Not to mention I can shoot Yzb25 if I want to.

Actually, I probably would if Renegade wasn't a red flip.

And then Recant on N3 and hope I get Survivor.

who are you checking/shooting if renegade is red or pink flip?

so the real doctor should be on yzb then?

[MartinGG99]

I recommend you check MM or YZB here. trust me on this martin..

Basically it comes down to this, as to where I'm currently at for my N2 action:

If Renegade flips red, I will check someone (maybe MM because tbh I'm partially sheeping town-reads there)

If he flips green, I will shoot Yzb25

If anyone else flips, or nobody flips today for godamm unknown reason

Then I'll shoot Renegade unless I think someone is intentionally holding off on the yeet to get me to shoot Ren instead of the lynch.

[Mesk514]

I think we should lynch renegade and you shoot or check whomever, your call.

[bakermir]

How much left on EoD? I am confused

[Mesk514]

How much left on EoD? I am confused

I think like 12 hours

[Mesk514]

if not, much more

[MartinGG99]

I believe its 34 hours.

After that the night gets extended until it hits 8PM EST (or that's the time for me) again.

[MartinGG99]

Yeah 1 day and 8 hours and 30 minutes from the time of this post

[MartinGG99]

Yeah 1 day and 8 hours and 30 minutes from the time of this post

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...l=1#post910695

[Mesk514]

oh, that would make more sense

[bakermir]

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...l=1#post910695

thank you damn I was gettin nervous for no reason. I seriously suck with eod pressure

[Mesk514]

im not sure if you've made yourself look better than MattZed did... which wasn't too great either

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I'm the doctor.

I was roleblocked last night.

And of course, there is no world you would vote yzb over me because of his and your history here. Vet meta bullshite. You know the drill.

Huh? Okay XD

Who did you heal N1?

Also, I hard claim citizen.

[bakermir]

before I leave

@MartinGG99


What makes MM town for you? As I reread their posts, independently from ongoing claims; I find their D1 play quite scummy. His stance on things feel rather artificial.


He reminds me of Zamdoc from our previous game. Very similar style imo.. That kind of play always pings to me "MAFIA ALERT" lol



I am currently having MM posts on another tab and I am doing my best to see if this was really two townies looking after each other but I am not progressing on that world that much. I hope to see his answers when I bring a full list of questions to him as he requested a good case and not a pray tell

[Mesk514]

Huh? Okay XD

Who did you heal N1?
citizen.

please don't tell me you're buying it

[Marshmallow Marshall]

For those who doubt yzb's townness, here are some quotes.

mm pushing mesk rn does not look pro town from where I'm sitting. I deliberately abstained from drawing too much of a judgement early on because I'm aware of my own shortcomings while reading the slot. You pushing mesk here rather than giving us actual insights would be like me pushing matt except times 100

Look at this post and at the ones yzb posted after it, developping his thoughts. It was based on him misunderstanding the interaction between Mesk and I.

I guess I was thinking of that specific post when I voted you. (#351) It didn't look genuine. And it just seemed like a weird thing to take away from mesk's votes back there. Pushing anyone is great I guess. Maybe I'm just pulling shit out my ass to justify what my gut feels lol.

This looks like a genuine townie's doubt.

omg I'm such an imbecile. Someone should ban me from posting in games past a certain time. My brain is half in the trash LOL.

thank god because I would scumread myself for what I just posted LOL

oh no this is going to become one of those things that wakes me up shivering in a cold sweat in the middle of the night in 6 months. I thought I'd moved past this.

I'm tempted to try and end the IRL night on a better note but I think I'd just cock it up again LOL

I'm just gonna take the L on this one.

And this is just "oh nooo lol" realizing he made a mistake. If all of this was faked to get out of a bad scumpaint, it both means yzb is amazing at getting out of bad situation and that he's amazing at creating them (the push on me was obviously misguided to anyone who had read the game a little bit and wouldn't have convinced anyone). Given his experience, his calculated nature and his skill level, I really think this was all a genuine town mistake.

~~

Gut reaction is this is a misfire on YZBs part. Will write more in a bit.

Just found this while lookin for yzb's posts: another fencesitty/inconclusive post from Renegade that means nothing. He never "wrote more" about it, btw.

The choice is rather clear to me.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

please don't tell me you're buying it

Not at all. I'm just processing all possibilities. And right now, this awfully looks like scum trying to look like they have a pro-town role, but I'm trying to consider everything plausible.

[Mesk514]

Not at all. I'm just processing all possibilities. And right now, this awfully looks like scum trying to look like they have a pro-town role, but I'm trying to consider everything plausible.

ah, very well... consider away... i think we are both in agreeance what's clear here

[Marshmallow Marshall]

sure, I will get on to it. I honestly think you are scum but if you can prove me wrong then I take that as a win because I know where to look next.

For the record, I think you are non-illuminati mafia because of Matt's play. It fits perfectly: scummy but highly pro-town early on with what really looked like scumhunting (because he wanted to find potential illuminati), fits in a mafia team with Renegade really well interactions-wise. Also, you're saying "my stance on things is rather artificial". I have no idea why people always say that about my play when I'm just being myself, but anyway, it'd be nice to elaborate on this, I guess.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

ah, very well... consider away... i think we are both in agreeance what's clear here

Indeed.

[Mesk514]

Indeed.

I'll leave it at that and be back in the morning. I do have an exam in the AM, so if I wake up late, I'll see you all in 12 hours or so.

toodles

[yzb25]

To be honest, I was trying to be deliberately non-commital with my vote / beliefs about illuminati. But having thought about the town's position, I no longer think that's necessary. We're in a very good spot here.

I do believe there is an illuminati, yes. In fact, I'd be rather surprised if there wasn't, simply because of Auwt's behaviour. I find it really difficult to imagine a world where Auwt isn't caught scum by the way he's been acting. I'd expect town to be a lot more flustered / indignant and trying to "prove their townyness rn" and trying to build new scumreads after the death of Frinckles. Auwt has seemingly silently resigned themselves to the check - and made no effort during this ample time to do anything meaningful. I also trust the instincts of dead comrade Frinckles (may he forever live on in our hearts). The scumread on Auwt was the one substantive position he took in life, so we should honour it following his death ^^.

Here's how I think we should do this - We lynch renegade today, and then martin can shoot his check Auwt at night. Then, we try to be on for daystart tomorrow and lynch bakermir before mike can change the vote count for mayor (to avoid any mayor snipe shenaniganry). After that, I'm inclined to believe the illuminati is MM, but that doesn't matter. If all the mafias are dead, the final illuminati will have at most 2 votes with 4 players remaining. Martin can literally check all the remaining players one after the other before directing the final lynch.

In light of that, if anyone has any wish to defend Bakermir or Auwt (which really doesn't seem to be the case), now is the time to state your case. My vote is nominally on renegade, but I will not place the vote until 1:30AM UTC (unless everyone confirms they have nothing more to add).

[yzb25]

The reason for shooting Auwt is, as was pointed out, if renegade is non-illuminati mafia the remaining illuminati mafia could pick off a town, make the game 3v3, and really fuck us up.

[Auwt]

@Auwt

Why did you start scum-reading Frinckles after you made your reads list?

Originally, he was (seemingly) null in a low confidence reads list by you, but 18 hours later, Mesk + Frinckles are your top-scum reads.

Not to mention, Matt Zed pointed out that Frinckles, like Yzb25 and you, was town-reading DM. Yzb25 was, as per your readslist, towny and you would know yourself to be town as well. I would assume Frinckles agreeing that DM was town make him look better in your eyes.

But you read that post and 6 minutes after listed Frinckles as part of your two top scum reads.

Why is that?

(I hope the wording here isn't confusing for you btw, if I need to re-word let me know)

I firstly thought Frinckles was drunk.
But idk I felt like the situation didn't change in the second half of D1.

am I missing something in the setup? been drinking but idk what this means

sorry haha i dont want to seem like im tpr hunting im def not

why dont you claim is your role that good?

hahaha xD yes lol matt is a tpr and mike is hosting the game

x_X brahhhhhhhh

so I WAS RIGHT

Shooting someone sounds fun.

I expected him to start moving or at least take a position.
Only knowing his DM vibes isn't enough imo when literally everyone else had taken some sort of a stance.
Which I didn't think he did at that time.
That's what he just did when I :

I guess even if I do vote either of them, the outcome would still be the same.
Isn't the voting system majority only ?
I honestly don't believe we are going to reach a majority whatsoever.

Joining either a Frinckles or Mesk train seems to be the best option imo.
Mesk being lynched seems to be an utopia according to the current votes.
I will leave that here

-vote Frinckles

And see how this is gonna play out.

*literally his next post after mine*

I think the four people I have at the bottom of the lynch totem pole are MZ, MM, Auwt and Renegade in no particular order.

I would in most cases push for a MM/MZ lynch here over Auwt or Ren.

Please note that I haven't said at any time that I'm scum reading Frinckles.

I hate majority-only, and hate skip vote, if I have not said that already.
Especially since GF has been hiding the flip to us.
Frinckles was pushed by MM and MZ, I decided to join that push to make sure he is gonna talk to us about his thought.
Otherwhise his thoughts would have only been left in his own grave.

Waiting for more, I expected him to talk a bit more about yzb and Mesk, to at least have a full read list like most of us did.
Then I would have unvoted him, but...

I doubt an auwt/MM team but ill put my lynch pool at those two plus MZ. I think auwt has gotten progressively worse with his latest lines lol and yeah sure I can show some examples

nevermind, can't find any examples because I got the pages mixed up and he has only posted once since I last posted reads.

For some reasons he decided to say "auwt has gotten progressively worse with his latest lines", which he didn't initially stated in his read list 3 and 4 quotes above.
Take into accout that by the time he made this readlist and then said I "got worse with my latest lines" about 20 min went by, and that was the only post I wrote in between:

Indeed, same voting pool on my side.

I do not understand Frinckles' progression saying my latest lines got weird.
So I believed he was willing to fabricate something and I parked my vote there.
End of the story.

[Auwt]

@Auwt

Fine, I will help you out.

By some perverse coincidence, I actually checked renegade last night like mesk falsely claimed, and renegade did appear as mafia.

This is not a second gambit (that would be dumb). This is 100% serious. I tried to crumb yesterday (IRL yesterday) that I was also sheriff when I randomly brought up the possibility of 2 sherrifs to mesk. But I'm awful at softclaims and have no idea whether I did it well.

Anyway, this day is evidently not heading anywhere fast, and there's a good chance I'll be dead tomorrow with a wiped lw. So I may as well reveal this information now. Auwt, if you are town and townread me, you now know renegade is mafia and there is no illuminati. Your objective is clearly to ensure renegade is lynched today.

Perhaps I speak from a tunnel, but I struggle to imagine a world where the scumteam is not mattzed / renegade. Almost the only way matt interacted with renegade was to probe renegade about his voting interests. And it is certainly correct to probe your mafia teammate for their voting interests in this setup (or feign probing). He handled renegade with mitts for the entire day.

-vote Renegade

gg.

I can't prove to anyone in anyway that I'm not Illuminati.
And with Martin's check on me I look even worse.

[Renegade]

-vote Renegade

gg.

I can't prove to anyone in anyway that I'm not Illuminati.
And with Martin's check on me I look even worse.

We are seriously going to lynch me over this weak illuminati defense??