S-FM 319: ILLUMINΔTI (Ladder) 9P

[Stealthbomber16]

well there ya go, no reason to vote ya. good convo

-vote MattZed

Why MZ

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I mean, if he is... then there's no reason to vote him, duh

well there ya go, no reason to vote ya. good convo

-vote MattZed

...Mesk works in mysterious ways, and I'd like to understand the move and to know the amount of seriousness behind it.

[MattZed]

...Mesk works in mysterious ways, and I'd like to understand the move and to know the amount of seriousness behind it.

I'm also *deeply* interested in Mesk's thinking here. I think anyone, town or scum, can see that I'm not today's yeet. So why even bother pushing?

[Stealthbomber16]

Nah DMs play makes sense if you view it from someone who is incredibly tilted.

1. Playing his least favorite role in the game by a wide margin
2. Setup has a 50% chance to not have accurate flips (remember Magellan?)
3. Getting incorrectly pushed as cit
4. Nobody agrees with his reads or sees what he sees

I don’t agree with what he said and understand why he was being scumread but from the POV of knowing he was a citizen (even before I officially learned his role I knew he would be one since he was replacing out) his actions, although flawed, still make sense.

[Mesk514]

I recall a pre-retirement game where scum won because someone had a very specific roleclaim on the spot. (@Mesk514, I think we were in that game, and that scum may have been you)

I don't think so, but could be wrong... do you remember any details?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I'm also *deeply* interested in Mesk's thinking here. I think anyone, town or scum, can see that I'm not today's yeet. So why even bother pushing?

I was mostly talking about the "pass" she gave SB16 without interacting with him in any significant way, and I thought the answer was pretty much "OMGUS because mattzed pressured me early on", but that also is an interesting question.

[Stealthbomber16]

I typically don’t play the replacement card but this is seriously a game where it’s applicable. You can go back and find any other game where DM has played citizen and it’s always him bitching for all of D1 and then getting lynched.

[MartinGG99]

Waaait, you actually managed to get the individual ISO links as stable links that don't die instantly? I never could. Do you go through the "section > click on the number of posts next to "replies" associated to the thread > click on the number associated to the player's name" process to get those, or did you find another way?

You actually do what you describe.

But DO NOT left click on the links (as you normally might do on regular links). Instead, right click them and copy the link address.

If you're on mobile then idk how you do that.

[Mesk514]

...Mesk works in mysterious ways, and I'd like to understand the move and to know the amount of seriousness behind it.

there is no move, i had my vote placed on him since IRLlastnight... and i outlined why.

[Stealthbomber16]

I don't think so, but could be wrong... do you remember any details?

Probably the game where unknown replaced in and correctly wildly guessed the doctor visited a specific target n1 and confirmed himself as “lookout” when he was a goon

[MattZed]

Nah DMs play makes sense if you view it from someone who is incredibly tilted.

1. Playing his least favorite role in the game by a wide margin
2. Setup has a 50% chance to not have accurate flips (remember Magellan?)
3. Getting incorrectly pushed as cit
4. Nobody agrees with his reads or sees what he sees

I don’t agree with what he said and understand why he was being scumread but from the POV of knowing he was a citizen (even before I officially learned his role I knew he would be one since he was replacing out) his actions, although flawed, still make sense.

Yeah, you get to live at least one more day. This is exactly the sort of response I'd expect if someone replaced into DM's slot and was actually town.

If Martin gets an Illuminati check on you, prepare to defend your ass.

[Stealthbomber16]

Yeah, you get to live at least one more day. This is exactly the sort of response I'd expect if someone replaced into DM's slot and was actually town.

If Martin gets an Illuminati check on you, prepare to defend your ass.

If Martin gets an Illuminati check on me then we’re gonna crack some skulls.

[MattZed]

Probably the game where unknown replaced in and correctly wildly guessed the doctor visited a specific target n1 and confirmed himself as “lookout” when he was a goon

That sounds about right, actually.

[Mesk514]

I didn't find DM to be scummy, lol. I understood his thought process. No one has the same amount of love for being a citizen than i do. and his attitude is very on par with plenty of other people who feel the same way about being a shitzen

[Stealthbomber16]

I didn't find DM to be scummy, lol. I understood his thought process. No one has the same amount of love for being a citizen than i do. and his attitude is very on par with plenty of other people who feel the same way about being a shitzen

DM has a special apathy for citizens that I don’t understand. I’m always happy to be cit because it means I’m not neutral killing again.

[Mesk514]

Probably the game where unknown replaced in and correctly wildly guessed the doctor visited a specific target n1 and confirmed himself as “lookout” when he was a goon

oh, if this is the game I'm thinking of then i was a citizen and the doc saved me

[Mesk514]

DM has a special apathy for citizens that I don’t understand. I’m always happy to be cit because it means I’m not neutral killing again.

i like being a citizen because it gets people going and when i flip it's always great to say i told ya so
but i also like being a vigi in games Zedus is in. probably my second favorite role

[MartinGG99]

I... instinctively trust that SB is telling the truth. I like MM's test, but then again I recall a pre-retirement game where scum won because someone had a very specific roleclaim on the spot. (@Mesk514, I think we were in that game, and that scum may have been you)


As much as I had a hard scumread on DM, I think the best play at this point is to have Martin check Stealth tonight. I was suspecting DM being more likely Illuminati than Mafia, and I'd really like to find out. We can resolve his slot D2.

I would press X to doubt.

After all, I did say that I thought (and still do) believe you + DM's slot were town.

But if quite a few people want me to then I guess I can check his slot instead of the person I thought of earlier today.

[Stealthbomber16]

oh, if this is the game I'm thinking of then i was a citizen and the doc saved me

Unknown or mag would be able to tell the story better than I would but if I remember it correctly unknown pulled that completely out of his ass and got it just on game sense and a lot of luck.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Nah DMs play makes sense if you view it from someone who is incredibly tilted.

1. Playing his least favorite role in the game by a wide margin
2. Setup has a 50% chance to not have accurate flips (remember Magellan?)
3. Getting incorrectly pushed as cit
4. Nobody agrees with his reads or sees what he sees

I don’t agree with what he said and understand why he was being scumread but from the POV of knowing he was a citizen (even before I officially learned his role I knew he would be one since he was replacing out) his actions, although flawed, still make sense.

If I were that mad about 1 and 2, I just wouldn't sign for the damn game lol
But yeah, I like what I'm seeing from you a lot, and you seem to be confirming I was correct in giving him the benefit of the doubt, even though I started doubting about it.

[Stealthbomber16]

I would press X to doubt.

After all, I did say that I thought (and still do) believe you + DM's slot were town.

But if quite a few people want me to then I guess I can check his slot instead of the person I thought of earlier today.

Hard agree that I think MZ is town right now.

[Mesk514]

Unknown or mag would be able to tell the story better than I would but if I remember it correctly unknown pulled that completely out of his ass and got it just on game sense and a lot of luck.

oh, then i probably wasn't even in this game lol

[MattZed]

I'm going to bed now. In the morning, I'm going to re-read Mesk in light of DM's replacement. I haven't liked anything she's posted, but I honestly stopped paying attention when DM started hard pinging my scumdar.

In the meantime, I'm appointing MM to lead the pressure trains.

-vote Frinckles

@Marshmallow Marshall , I'm trusting you to unvote if he gets to L-2 before I get back.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

there is no move, i had my vote placed on him since IRLlastnight... and i outlined why.

I was mostly talking about the "pass" she gave SB16 without interacting with him in any significant way, and I thought the answer was pretty much "OMGUS because mattzed pressured me early on", but that also is an interesting question.

^ ^ ^ ^

[MartinGG99]

Nah DMs play makes sense if you view it from someone who is incredibly tilted.

1. Playing his least favorite role in the game by a wide margin
2. Setup has a 50% chance to not have accurate flips (remember Magellan?)
3. Getting incorrectly pushed as cit
4. Nobody agrees with his reads or sees what he sees

I don’t agree with what he said and understand why he was being scumread but from the POV of knowing he was a citizen (even before I officially learned his role I knew he would be one since he was replacing out) his actions, although flawed, still make sense.

This.

Also he was pinging me sort of like !town DM from Spirits II though he was a bit less active in that game.

[Stealthbomber16]

-vote Renegade

I’m going to preface this vote with the fact that this is on one hour of playing the game and it’s a gut read that I have basically 0 faith in.

I do have another motive for placing this vote which may come into play later which is why I’m placing it here.

[Mesk514]

^ ^ ^ ^

I didn't find DM to be scummy, lol. I understood his thought process.

^^^^^ I gave that whole slot a pass for today, so i'm not required to look deep into stealth as I find DM did enough to prove he's a true shitzen.

[Stealthbomber16]

Dipping for now. I may be back soon.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Probably the game where unknown replaced in and correctly wildly guessed the doctor visited a specific target n1 and confirmed himself as “lookout” when he was a goon

Lol wow.

Yeah, you get to live at least one more day. This is exactly the sort of response I'd expect if someone replaced into DM's slot and was actually town.

If Martin gets an Illuminati check on you, prepare to defend your ass.

Tbh, at this point I'd be more willing for him to check Mesk than SB. Still not opposing the SB check due to the amount of meaningful discussion DM's stuff generated (and therefore due to the amount of info we could lowkey confirm from that), but Mesk is more of a question mark while SB looks pretty good right now. I find a town!DM world rather easy to buy, too, so this helps.

[MattZed]

I would press X to doubt.

After all, I did say that I thought (and still do) believe you + DM's slot were town.

But if quite a few people want me to then I guess I can check his slot instead of the person I thought of earlier today.

Your sole job is find Illuminati if they exist. If you think someone is more likely to be Illuminati, go ahead and check them instead. I think DM was scummy and was more likely Illuminati than Mafia. I'd be very interested in having a better idea if he's Illuminati or not.

Like I said when you were busdriver, follow your own reads. If there's an Illuminati, there are THREE of them, and they really don't want you checking them. If checking Stealth wouldn't give you useful information, you don't have to. (For the record, if there is an Illuminati, I think they're not willing to take the risk and be all "oh no you shouldn't waste your time checking me." I think MM is town, and him being willing to agree with your lists reinforces my townread on him. If you want to keep to your original list, I think it was a good list and you wouldn't really go wrong.)

I'm off for real now.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I'm going to bed now. In the morning, I'm going to re-read Mesk in light of DM's replacement. I haven't liked anything she's posted, but I honestly stopped paying attention when DM started hard pinging my scumdar.

In the meantime, I'm appointing MM to lead the pressure trains.

-vote Frinckles

@Marshmallow Marshall , I'm trusting you to unvote if he gets to L-2 before I get back.

I'm gonna go off too though lol, but instant hammers will be punished by strong suspicion tomorrow anyway, so I just trust the town (and the scum) instead.

[Mesk514]

just check me and let the world know I'm a true citizen. goddammit.

[MartinGG99]

Lol wow.

Tbh, at this point I'd be more willing for him to check Mesk than SB. Still not opposing the SB check due to the amount of meaningful discussion DM's stuff generated (and therefore due to the amount of info we could lowkey confirm from that), but Mesk is more of a question mark while SB looks pretty good right now. I find a town!DM world rather easy to buy, too, so this helps.

Honestly I'm not opposed to checking Mesk

I may very well do that but I do wish to see how my unspecified suspect develops till (or up to before) EoD1.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

^^^^^ I gave that whole slot a pass for today, so i'm not required to look deep into stealth as I find DM did enough to prove he's a true shitzen.

I'm probably biased by my background scumread on Mesk, but this feels like TMI to me for how easily she's giving SB a pass based on a "previous townread" on DM. Even I, who townread DM, was far from giving SB a free pass before hearing what he had to say. This is a weird mindset. But again, I remain cautious due to potential confirmation bias and due to the fact we both think quite differently.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Honestly I'm not opposed to checking Mesk

I may very well do that but I do wish to see how my unspecified suspect develops till (or up to before) EoD1.

Tbh, it's up to you and it may even be good to WIFOM it to avoid giving clues to potential scum. As long as it's an useful check, it's good to me.

[Mesk514]

I'm probably biased by my background scumread on Mesk, but this feels like TMI to me for how easily she's giving SB a pass based on a "previous townread" on DM. Even I, who townread DM, was far from giving SB a free pass before hearing what he had to say. This is a weird mindset. But again, I remain cautious due to potential confirmation bias and due to the fact we both think quite differently.

go away already, you're extremely annoying

[Stealthbomber16]

I'm probably biased by my background scumread on Mesk, but this feels like TMI to me for how easily she's giving SB a pass based on a "previous townread" on DM. Even I, who townread DM, was far from giving SB a free pass before hearing what he had to say. This is a weird mindset. But again, I remain cautious due to potential confirmation bias and due to the fact we both think quite differently.

Why are you not calling out mattzed who used the exact phrase “you get to live one more day” to describe his read on me today? Even in a case of confirmation bias, why overlook it when MZ does it but not when Mesk does it?

You can’t say you missed it or any excuse like that. You quoted the post where he said it in #529. The two players have the exact same circumstantial read on me right now but you find one scummy for the read and you don’t find the other one scummy for the read.

[Stealthbomber16]

The sheer insanity that may ensue from the fact that I may have just caught a Yagami Slip is tangible. I desperately want you to be scum now even though I don’t feel strongly that you are.

[Mesk514]

but you find one scummy for the read and you don’t find the other one scummy for the read.

oh praise Jesus, thank the lord you developed a brain in the last 3 years since I played with you last. But the answer is really simple here, MM is MZ's butt buddy and MM doesn't like women.

[Mesk514]

I don’t feel strongly that you are.

I don't think he is either... like i said, he's has some thing for MZ, so his bark is MM's command. He's having a helmet moment, that's all.

[Mesk514]

Basically, MM's disdain towards me clouds all judgement. Only when I stand 10ft away does he show some warmth. But I don't care to play nice since I have nothing to lose, as opposed to when I did last time we played. He can have my covid, idc

[Mesk514]

ALSO WHEN TALKING ABOUT GIVING PEOPLE A FREE PASS... Auwt has done like literally nothing all day and everyone's just like.. oh yeah, I like what I see from him. He's cool.

[Stealthbomber16]

oh praise Jesus, thank the lord you developed a brain in the last 3 years since I played with you last. But the answer is really simple here, MM is MZ's butt buddy and MM doesn't like women.

Pretty sure you played with me when I was in middle school. Sorry.

Your expectations of me are too high I’m still fucking retarded

[Mesk514]

Pretty sure you played with me when I was in middle school. Sorry.

Your expectations of me are too high I’m still fucking retarded

yeah, sometime around your peak teen years... lol, I forgive you, after all, Unknown is one of my dearest friends and I've known him since he was 15.

but yeah, glad I'm surrounded by complete retardation

[Mesk514]

heh, not surrounded by complete retardation***

I'm still regarded too, just more educated and money lol

[Mesk514]

retarded......* omg. fucking grammarly

[Stealthbomber16]

yeah, sometime around your peak teen years... lol, I forgive you, after all, Unknown is one of my dearest friends and I've known him since he was 15.

but yeah, glad I'm surrounded by complete retardation

Yeah now I’m 3/4 the intelligence of the average person instead of 1/2 the intelligence or the average person

[Frinckles]

when i kick this lynch under your feet i want you to think of me while you spiral downwards.

[Stealthbomber16]

when i kick this lynch under your feet i want you to think of me while you spiral downwards.

This gives me serious “the heavy is dead” vibes

[Mesk514]

when i kick this lynch under your feet i want you to think of me while you spiral downwards.

the votes on you are from irrelevant people anyways