S-FM 334 (Ladder): Once Upon a Town in the West (Small-Town Mafia) (13P)

[Frinckles]

Who is pocketing Pao so far?

I've spent about an entire whole minute considering thus and it seems to be that I am.

But I actually like the way Paopan has been typing.

[Mike]

I am truly likeing Frenckles. Becuse his post are syncing with me. He is makeing sence. @Frinckles what is your view on light?

[PQRnHack]

-unvote

apparently MM is doc huh

[Light_Yagami]

I am truly likeing Frenckles. Becuse his post are syncing with me. He is makeing sence. @Frinckles what is your view on light?

People Have Views On Me?

[Frinckles]

Oh fuck I'm pocketing him more.

What I mean more specifically is that he's much more reserved this game. Kind of like he wants to consider his options before sinking his teeth into a big pile of poop. Very good gameplay.

[Frinckles]

I am truly likeing Frenckles. Becuse his post are syncing with me. He is makeing sence. @Frinckles what is your view on light?

Well, if ScumLight manipulates Lookout feedback we could be in a pickle. Especially since we have a BD iirc.

[Frinckles]

-unvote

apparently MM is doc huh

Yeah, he should be healing me right?

[Light_Yagami]

Be Back Later Gonna Play Some Other Game For A Bit...

Just So Yall Know Im Gonna Leave This Tab Open..

It May Appear As Though Im Lurking.. But Im Just Doing Another Thing Or Two..

[PQRnHack]

Cya tomorrow

[jmw]

As far as solving the game, I fear I won't be around long enough to influence it's outcome.

Not a very townie mindset to have.
You should be attempting to solve with the time you have, even if you think that time is limited.

Also PQR's slip would be extremely fake coming from anyone else, but from PQR there's a ~50% chance it's legit based on the one prior game I've played with them. So I'm not gonna look into it too much and WIFOM myself this early.



For some reason none of the youtube videos linked will play and are just blank red screens, but it eliminates a distraction so I don't really mind. Still skimming lmk if you have any questions.

[jmw]

-unvote

apparently MM is doc huh

If PQR flips scum MM scum odds increase

Don't really like Mike off of a skim. Gikkle feels meh, hard to read him on D1 but it feels like he's playing a bit differently on purpose because this is offsite which doesn't make meta reading very helpful

[jmw]

Be Back Later Gonna Play Some Other Game For A Bit...

Just So Yall Know Im Gonna Leave This Tab Open..

It May Appear As Though Im Lurking.. But Im Just Doing Another Thing Or Two..

Townlean LY for this.
I think scum LY either disables the activity filter or closes the tab instead of posting about leaving the tab open and leaving it open.
If LY was inexperienced I would say this is scummy (due to caring so much about appearances) but from what I've seen it seems like this is not LY's first rodeo (ha) so I think this is more townie than not

@Gikkle your opinions on LY's post? Does it sway either way? You usually have a reasonable take when I make reads of this kind

[jmw]

I'm tired so heading off for tonight.
Tomorrow will hopefully find the time to do a full read of the pages I skimmed.

[NotPaopan]

It seemed like the Jailor can't jail if there's a lynch. So not reaching a conclusion who to lynch won't backfire on us at all on day 1

My voters are just envying my 2 vote count

[Mike]

Not a very townie mindset to have.
You should be attempting to solve with the time you have, even if you think that time is limited.

Also PQR's slip would be extremely fake coming from anyone else, but from PQR there's a ~50% chance it's legit based on the one prior game I've played with them. So I'm not gonna look into it too much and WIFOM myself this early.



For some reason none of the youtube videos linked will play and are just blank red screens, but it eliminates a distraction so I don't really mind. Still skimming lmk if you have any questions.

If PQR flips scum MM scum odds increase

Don't really like Mike off of a skim. Gikkle feels meh, hard to read him on D1 but it feels like he's playing a bit differently on purpose because this is offsite which doesn't make meta reading very helpful

Interesting. BG Doc never day 1 lynch Just in case. so no point Going there. you going after BG doc and Sheriff. I would love to hear you elaborate more. I would like to hear your thought process.

[Mike]

It seemed like the Jailor can't jail if there's a lynch. So not reaching a conclusion who to lynch won't backfire on us at all on day 1

My voters are just envying my 2 vote count

We do not know if Jailers is Town or Mafia. So we are not going to just let the Jailer decide. Remeber Jailer can RB. And remember Jailers Jail does not protect there Jailed person from being killed.

[Mike]

@jmw also why is your vote on Obron? Your posts are vague accusations on players with out any reasoning. If you are town you should elaborate a bit more.
1 If you see sometthing We dont We need to see it.
2 to confirm you are not Mafia trying to mislead town into killing out Protectives and Check.

Reading your posts I get the feel you are protecting Light. Your excuse you have posted in post #262 is weak but you did say town lean not read. but even for a town lean is off after everything he has posted so fare.

So please explain your reads showing posts from now and pas. to show how you came up with the read you have come up with.

[Mike]

Escort I believe you should RB the Viggy. for 2 reasons.

1 if Viggy is town: viggy shooting day 1 has best odds of hitting a town prob a protective like our BG.
2 If Viggy is Mafia they get an extra KP in the night.

Either way it is best if viggy does not shoot night 1.

[Mike]

I know people are scum leanin Frinkles. But his posts are matchin with how I was thinking about the game. Feels from a town mindset. Also a Bgfor a Mafia role would be messed up for mafia. I am not saying to give him a pass. But Not day 1 give it a day please. We will learn more tomorrow.

[Mike]

PLus if BG and Doc live tonight I have better odds of living thew the night. If there are not protectives Mafia will kill me in the night.

[Mike]

I live in the night if BG is alive.

1 if BG is Town MAfia will not dare target me for fear of BG.
2 if BG is MAfia Mafia will not dare target me for fear of outing the BG.

Win win I get a check. We will know if some one is Town or MAfia Day 2 confirmed

[Loldebite]

Thats What Im Doing.. You Are Clearly Scum.. Because You Said You Would Jump On The That Train.. In The Back Of My Mind Implying That You Are Scum.

I just enjoy bullying paopan, or trying to

[Loldebite]

Escort I believe you should RB the Viggy. for 2 reasons.

1 if Viggy is town: viggy shooting day 1 has best odds of hitting a town prob a protective like our BG.
2 If Viggy is Mafia they get an extra KP in the night.

Either way it is best if viggy does not shoot night 1.

Vigi was #2 on my block list, and since @luona seems willing to hold back from swapping i can see it being a good idea.

What are your opinions or lynching vs letting jailor do his thing ? Jailor is another potential KP

[Auwt]

Picking on Pao again?

He is definitely the go-to.

[Auwt]

Because I Wanted Veteran..lol

Sad for you.

[Auwt]

Bugs and bunnies can be viral carriers, beware!

~~

About the open planning of actions, what did you have in mind, Gikkle? I'm not sure how we could plan something pro-town that wouldn't be easily destroyable by scum because they'd know what we'd be doing, but I assume you had ideas?

I guess we can *easily* try to distinguish not *so* likely pairing.
For instance having both a Jailor and a Vigilante in the bandit team would be close to impossible (considering the fact Lag rand'ed thrice and took the fairest).

Thus Oberon/jmw are either TvT or SvT (TvS) in my book.

Following this pattern we can sort this game out way easier.

Same goes for you and Frinckles, I highly doubt you both share the bandit alignment.

[Auwt]

Cuz winning through rolecard shenanigans is lame

Expected from a killing role I suppose.

[Auwt]

pocketing 101, right?

Would not have said any better.

[Auwt]

Sheriff and BG go on Paopan. We will then know who if he is a confirmed town or not. Ez pz

Smart boi, what if Mike (Sheriff) is infact a bandit one, aligned with our dear Paopan (Mayor).
That would be such a good start for the townside :

- BG on a bandit.
- Fake Sheriff result next day.

All good man.
I assume you did not see this coming, and I hope this was not your plan.
As blatant as it could be I don't think you planned this to that extend, but yeah I would not acknowledge a Mayor/Sheriff bandit team to be impossible at all.

[Auwt]

Lasttime we played this setup Vet was mafia. and Mafia won. Does not mean he is. lets not exclude any one only problem is I can not check the vet. So yes it is the perfect mafia role.

I'm concerned this was the first *real (and not good looking)* interaction Mike had when joining the game.
Yet, I must agree with his last statement.

[Auwt]

To clarify it only shows me in the thread

I feel you.
Invisible mode should be prohibited, at least in FM.

[Auwt]

my plan is perfect, sheriff on paopan and BG on paopan, confirms him one way or another.

This is either scum slip or ignoring fact.
You are either implying that Mike is 100% town or forgetting that Mike could be bandit.
Which one do you take?

[Auwt]

Hell no. Then I die night 1

What about busdriver and doc?

[Auwt]

I mean if Pao is mafia, then your sheriff investigation catches a mafia (Pao himself). if Pao is town, then we have our 2nd vote. Which is more valuable - a guaranteed 2nd vote for us or some non-100% probability to catch a mafia outside of paopan?

Third time is the charm.
Enough.

-vote PQRnHack

[Auwt]

Honestly Sheriff Would Make No Sense As Scum.. So.. I Believe Mike Ta Be Confirmed Town From My POV ATM..

Sheriff is incredibly powerful as scum.
It must be the most manipulative role possible in the hand of the bandit.

Mike as a bandit could just safe his team mates and you would have to believe him.

Sheriff definitely makes sense as scum and I am not convinced at all Mike is town.

[Auwt]

Well this is embarrassing i was doing all my scumreading on the assumption that role distributions were not known. And i saw this Paopan mayor 2 vote thing and thought the scum were going for him. And now you point out to me there is a table listing all our roles LMAO. I never realized this setup was going to out all of our roles per person. My plan was to pick some players OUTSIDE of myself tonight because i didnt want mafia to know i was card shark. But there goes that idea. THIS SETUP IS WACK. I need to rethink.

Whatever.

-unvote

[Auwt]

Are you afraid of his 2 votes? we don't have to lynch, and if scum hammer with 51% majority then they're outed. If he is mafia he cant hammer without incriminating self and other voters. We need more time in the 72hr to make a decision, but im not prepared to off mayo at this point. If he is town, scum has motivation to remove the 2 votes.

Preferring to be leaving a potentialy culted Mayor.
I expected a much nicer way of playing from Player himself.

[Loldebite]

Sheriff is incredibly powerful as scum.
It must be the most manipulative role possible in the hand of the bandit.

Mike as a bandit could just safe his team mates and you would have to believe him.

Sheriff definitely makes sense as scum and I am not convinced at all Mike is town.

Agreed that the seriff role would be so scary as bandit that we should be very cautious about trusting him.

Wow i had missed that post from LY, wtf... Not sure how i feel about it, probably not good.

[Mike]

Vigi was #2 on my block list, and since @luona seems willing to hold back from swapping i can see it being a good idea.

What are your opinions or lynching vs letting jailor do his thing ? Jailor is another potential KP

Unless I get a check on jailer not willing to let jailer kill yet.

[Mike]

Awut great Wifom, you are not helping town only crediting distrust. In towns 2 most powerful roles Mayor and Sheriff. I get anyone can be mafia. But I know I am town. Mafia knows I am town. From my PoV Mafia best play if they can’t kill me at night due to protectives is to discredit the town pr’S I was thinking of a You mayor and light But you discredit me and mayor. And CD. But you failed to really point out Lights reactions to my probing questions. Him not wanting me to check him. Him trying to pocket me. iSO me and him. It is almost as you are protecting him. You and the Viggy. I do find this odd. Yes you pointed out him sAying I am confirmed when from his POV no one is confirmed unless they have the solve or mafia.. so right now from my POV his flip will give us a lot of info about the Viggy and. Vet. Or we can just vote the vet since I can not check that role.

[oliverz144]

So uh, i was away very long oops
i wont do a big entry, lets jump into discussion.
- paopan has a very dangerous role late game. He is either mafia and can manipulate votes, or is town and manipulated by scum. Theres no need for saving him as a person/player, we can lynch him and lower poe.
- analysing the roles and alignments towards balance is good and allowed. We are here for scum flips, not for an ethical win. It is also important to point out that lag talked about "3-5 random generated set-ups" and now he choose out of only 3 set-ups. So the current set-up is probably pretty balanced. And the game is made with all roles open. Scum will use this to their advantage. So we should use all our possible ways on winning.
- we have time, 72h. Only 19h passed yet. We should not go too fast. Think in inner peace
- we need a plan for night actions, but some things we will not be able to state public. Mafia will be able to counter.
- neighbour chat is an important tool in this game. Something like a union of town core would be good in town chat.
- funny discussion between yagami, mike and porn. Lmfao and rofl
- porn showed very strange behaviour. We should keep an eye on him. but take me into the metal card game chat @PQRnHack !
- vigilante AND jailor cant be BOTH scum. And no, im not sheeping @Auwt
- we can see groups. mike+frickles; jmw+yagami. This may be very interesting.
- we should lynch today, not jail. Jail can be scum, majority cant

sry for this text wall.
pls count this as atleast 2 posts, lag
and i will keep this open.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Dude you where in last game where mafia was mayor Vet lookout and escort

... which does not go against my point about setup speculation being bad outside of "no completely insane setups".

This is my Redemption game, Last time I fubared it so bad for town. got tunneled. Town it is simple if you can keep me alive thru the night I can find mafia. only role i can not check is the Vet. we got this is Doc is town and BG is town From my PoV this is an easy town win.

Unless the escort is mafia.

That's a lot of hypothetical statements, and they also imply you are town, which we have for now no reason to believe (or at least from the start of page 3, I don't), so I'm afraid centering the game around your role and you being truthful is not exactly a good idea.

[Oberon]

Now the question is, is Gikkle backing down because he is scum?
And the other question is, did he say jailor is Town because he is Mafia and knows this?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

So uh, i was away very long oops
i wont do a big entry, lets jump into discussion.
- paopan has a very dangerous role late game. He is either mafia and can manipulate votes, or is town and manipulated by scum. Theres no need for saving him as a person/player, we can lynch him and lower poe.
- analysing the roles and alignments towards balance is good and allowed. We are here for scum flips, not for an ethical win. It is also important to point out that lag talked about "3-5 random generated set-ups" and now he choose out of only 3 set-ups. So the current set-up is probably pretty balanced. And the game is made with all roles open. Scum will use this to their advantage. So we should use all our possible ways on winning.
- we have time, 72h. Only 19h passed yet. We should not go too fast. Think in inner peace
- we need a plan for night actions, but some things we will not be able to state public. Mafia will be able to counter.
- neighbour chat is an important tool in this game. Something like a union of town core would be good in town chat.
- funny discussion between yagami, mike and porn. Lmfao and rofl
- porn showed very strange behaviour. We should keep an eye on him. but take me into the metal card game chat @PQRnHack !
- vigilante AND jailor cant be BOTH scum. And no, im not sheeping @Auwt
- we can see groups. mike+frickles; jmw+yagami. This may be very interesting.
- we should lynch today, not jail. Jail can be scum, majority cant

sry for this text wall.
pls count this as atleast 2 posts, lag
and i will keep this open.

Greetings!

Are you suggesting we actually lynch Paopan because... he has two votes? Or am I missing something? The argument is quite thin if it really is what you're saying. If we begin lynching town because they can get manipulated by scum, we might as well just flip a coin to decide who's innocent and who's guilty...

"we're not here for an ethical win" lol ok. I think it's perfectly ethical to use mechanics, though - the issue is that I don't really see how publicly stating actions would help us, except maybe for roles like the Card Sharp for a consensual town core.

What "strange behavior" did you see from PQ exactly?

And we definetly should aim to lynch today, not just for the sake of preventing potential scum jailor actions but also for the sake of getting information to analyze later on.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Not really to early to tell. I think Town can win this if we play smart. If you are town pick me and you and dont know the other 2 yet for your networking. This way if I am hit at night you can pass on my night vist.

Luona is a bus driver. She swaps people, she doesn't create chats. And saying who she's swapping would make her action entirely pointless, since scum would obviously not fall for any trick they'd know in advance. That's a example of the issues with publicly announcing actions.

[luona]

Naw Paopan And Awut Confirmed Scum In My Book Along With Where My Vote Is Placed...lol Based On PaoPans And Awuts Scum Record...

can u explain what paopan and awuts scum records are like?

I've spent about an entire whole minute considering thus and it seems to be that I am.

But I actually like the way Paopan has been typing.

like this post.

If PQR flips scum MM scum odds increase

Don't really like Mike off of a skim. Gikkle feels meh, hard to read him on D1 but it feels like he's playing a bit differently on purpose because this is offsite which doesn't make meta reading very helpful

can u show the posts that make u think these things? i dont really see it right now but i think itll help a bit maybe.

Townlean LY for this.
I think scum LY either disables the activity filter or closes the tab instead of posting about leaving the tab open and leaving it open.
If LY was inexperienced I would say this is scummy (due to caring so much about appearances) but from what I've seen it seems like this is not LY's first rodeo (ha) so I think this is more townie than not

this seems like an odd reason to townread someone, do u usually do reasoning like this..?



i like auwts chain of posts on this page (6), but i do have a question;

Whatever.

-unvote

in this post, what made you satisfied enough to unvote pqrnhack?

- paopan has a very dangerous role late game. He is either mafia and can manipulate votes, or is town and manipulated by scum. Theres no need for saving him as a person/player, we can lynch him and lower poe.

do u scumread paopan?

Now the question is, is Gikkle backing down because he is scum?
And the other question is, did he say jailor is Town because he is Mafia and knows this?

do u lean townwards gikkle being town or scum?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I'm gonna assume Loldebite is the one you're referring to as "load". Light is voting him because he mentioned trains, which is a little ridiculous.

I honestly do not know what to make of this. You reason is off to me light as town you have more logic.

Does he, though? It's certainly not towny (and nothing from him strikes me as towny, actually), but is it really scummy in itself, considering... it's Light? What bothers me more is the lack of town tells from him.

[Loldebite]

So uh, i was away very long oops
i wont do a big entry, lets jump into discussion.
- paopan has a very dangerous role late game. He is either mafia and can manipulate votes, or is town and manipulated by scum. Theres no need for saving him as a person/player, we can lynch him and lower poe.
- analysing the roles and alignments towards balance is good and allowed. We are here for scum flips, not for an ethical win. It is also important to point out that lag talked about "3-5 random generated set-ups" and now he choose out of only 3 set-ups. So the current set-up is probably pretty balanced. And the game is made with all roles open. Scum will use this to their advantage. So we should use all our possible ways on winning.
- we have time, 72h. Only 19h passed yet. We should not go too fast. Think in inner peace
- we need a plan for night actions, but some things we will not be able to state public. Mafia will be able to counter.
- neighbour chat is an important tool in this game. Something like a union of town core would be good in town chat.
- funny discussion between yagami, mike and porn. Lmfao and rofl
- porn showed very strange behaviour. We should keep an eye on him. but take me into the metal card game chat @PQRnHack !
- vigilante AND jailor cant be BOTH scum. And no, im not sheeping @Auwt
- we can see groups. mike+frickles; jmw+yagami. This may be very interesting.
- we should lynch today, not jail. Jail can be scum, majority cant

sry for this text wall.
pls count this as atleast 2 posts, lag
and i will keep this open.

paopan has a very dangerous role late game. He is either mafia and can manipulate votes, or is town and manipulated by scum.

I disagree that paopan's is the most dangerous role a bandit could have, i think that'd be jailor or perhaps CD since feedback is nowhere to be seen. Lynching mayor just because he may be a threat later is a bad reason IMO.

On that note @27614; i remember why i didnt want to rb vigi : if he kills a townie, he looses his power, which means its a simple 1 for 1, i dont think that should scare us yet. That is also the reason why i am not conviced by the "jailor and vigi cant be both bandits" argument.

I also believe LY buddied Mike or pretended to earlier.
Anyway i dont think that poor paopan is the lynch anymore. Sadly.

-unvote

[Marshmallow Marshall]

-unvote

apparently MM is doc huh

... yes, so?

Also, I keep seeing references to "Player A is role X, so he can't be scum/so he's scummy". So let me clarify something

Roles are unrelated to alignments, and they were randomized, so THEY ARE NOT ALIGNMENT INDICATIVE.

[luona]

... yes, so?

Also, I keep seeing references to "Player A is role X, so he can't be scum/so he's scummy". So let me clarify something

Roles are unrelated to alignments, and they were randomized, so THEY ARE NOT ALIGNMENT INDICATIVE.

r u scum