S-FM 208: Black Flag Nightless

[Calix]

Okay so Iced did make the "can't make a decent case for him being scum" point but that's not necessarily the thing as a town-read (although I don't know how he differentiates between the two - would be good to flesh out his nuance there) and he does say later that he is 'undecided' on NU, so I can see town motivation in wanting to determine more about his alignment.

I still think that Iced did not leave anything for NU to respond to, however, so I don't see how he was expecting his uncertainty about NU to be resolved given what he posted. I do not consider it a solid or a vote that warrants someone being placed at L-2 so early on.

Spoiler : QUOTES :

Because I cant make a decent case that I believe in for reading as scum at the moment, im not convinced on the other arguements that have been made about him either yet.

In regards to the two current trains, im still townreading SP, and as im undecided on NU (and believe in heavier trains in this setup), im relocating my vote

He has been heavily (for the game so far) discussed/interacted with though, thus fitting my criteria for a good lynch candidate for the day. Anybody hammering (this) early in a setup like this is only going to get themselves lynched, so im not concerned with L-2 being a danger to an early day end. Im going to maintain my vote here until there is something more attractive to move to, if this vote never moves, and NU is lynched then im still happy.

[Iced_Monopoly]

Unknown1234	Spruance	SecondPassing	Never Unlucky
Town	Town	Town	Town
TDL	DarknessB	DarknessB	Calix
DarknessB	SecondPassing	SecondPassing	Eggy
NeverUnlucky	Unknown1234	Unknown1234	NeverUnlucky
SecondPassing	Mesk514	Mesk514	Spruance
Mafia	Eggy	Eggy	Mafia
Calix	Mafia	Mafia	Iced_Monopoly
Mesk514	TDL	TDL	Mesk514
Iced_Monopoly	Never Unlucky	Never Unlucky	TDL
	Calix	Calix	SecondPassing
	Iced_Monopoly	Iced_Monopoly	Null
			DarknessB
			Unknown1234

So this is mostly for me to reference when required for VCA later on, but its also interesting to look at for any potential blocs that may form or be formed. I like that the 4 people creating reads lists for a decent part all town read eachother, or omit eachother from scum lists at the minimum, and that despite an almost unanimous decision that Myself (especially), TDL, and Calix are all scum, 3/4 of them have not put a vote on, or attempted to start a train against any one of us.

I also wanted to use this for interactions, but spruance has posted too little at the moment to draw anything meaningful from this.

[Never Unlucky]

Yes, my issue with the host is resolved.

I hereby rescind my vote on Never Unlucky until I can more fully comprehend what this means.

Context of the quote: sign-up thread for the other S-FM. He quotes signs 9. Spruance 10. Slayer and.... All the way at the bottom of the list, reserve 1. secondpassing.

If he thinks I am trash tier scum, I think he would have been elated in having caught the scum game one. That or he thinks that I am that bad.

The latter one. What is your point though?

But I have a feeling it is not the above, and that he is frustrated at me. You basically only get frustrated with town players or town that won't listen to you.

No, I am not frustrated at you. I agree with the last statement though.

I think you're a bad player, but that isn't why I am tunneling you. You've been on my radar because you've slipped and because your many (not to say most) of your posts are illogical.

Which means, down under, he probably thinks I'm town, can't explain it in his terms why a town player would play like me, and concluded that I was scum.

As seen in my reads list, I do not fully scum-read you. There's a part to me that wants to believe that you're simply an ungifted earthling who also happened to roll town.

The tone of your posts definitely seems town to me.

(look man, I'm was wrong to call you a noob, I could have used a different term in addressing you.)

What you think of me doesn't bother me.


Other point -- You previously stated that you scum-read me. Now, by saying

You basically only get frustrated with town players or town that won't listen to you. Which means, down under, he probably thinks I'm town, can't explain it in his terms why a town player would play like me, and concluded that I was scum.

you imply that I am town.

Why the suddent change?

[Iced_Monopoly]

I do not consider it a solid or a vote that warrants someone being placed at L-2 so early on.

I already explained why L-2 wasnt as concerning as it is in comparison to other setups, which I think you agreed with. I was hoping for more than just you to be discussing these points though, as my intentions were to gauge reactions like this to determine potential relationships. Although now that the train has died down and started reversing, information can still be gleaned from why some didnt participate at all in it. Something that I will get round to looking into soon.

[Never Unlucky]

Unknown1234	Spruance	SecondPassing	Never Unlucky
Town	Town	Town	Town
TDL	DarknessB	DarknessB	Calix
DarknessB	SecondPassing	SecondPassing	Eggy
NeverUnlucky	Unknown1234	Unknown1234	NeverUnlucky
SecondPassing	Mesk514	Mesk514	Spruance
Mafia	Eggy	Eggy	Mafia
Calix	Mafia	Mafia	Iced_Monopoly
Mesk514	TDL	TDL	Mesk514
Iced_Monopoly	Never Unlucky	Never Unlucky	TDL
	Calix	Calix	SecondPassing
	Iced_Monopoly	Iced_Monopoly	Null
			DarknessB
			Unknown1234

So this is mostly for me to reference when required for VCA later on, but its also interesting to look at for any potential blocs that may form or be formed. I like that the 4 people creating reads lists for a decent part all town read eachother, or omit eachother from scum lists at the minimum, and that despite an almost unanimous decision that Myself (especially), TDL, and Calix are all scum, 3/4 of them have not put a vote on, or attempted to start a train against any one of us.

I also wanted to use this for interactions, but spruance has posted too little at the moment to draw anything meaningful from this.

I like this VCA post quite a bit. It's interesting to see that you are scum-read by all 4 and that TDL and Calix are scum-read by 3 players each. I'm intrigued to know why Mesk is town-read by Spruance and SP. She's done nothing to warrant this read imo.

I like that the 4 people creating reads lists for a decent part all town read eachother, or omit eachother from scum lists at the minimum, and that despite an almost unanimous decision that Myself (especially), TDL, and Calix are all scum, 3/4 of them have not put a vote on, or attempted to start a train against any one of us.

This statement isn't true though. I scum-read SP and it's whom I voted.

What would your reads be?

[Iced_Monopoly]

This statement isn't true though. I scum-read SP and it's whom I voted.
What would your reads be?

I wrote 'for a decent part', and '3/4', although I missed Spruances vote on TDL so technically its 2/4, which subtracts from its validity.
I posted a reads list earlier in the game, I wont be posting another for a while, im still yet to come to a more refined decision on both you and SP, which I believe calix is waiting for as well

[Calix]

I already explained why L-2 wasnt as concerning as it is in comparison to other setups, which I think you agreed with. I was hoping for more than just you to be discussing these points though, as my intentions were to gauge reactions like this to determine potential relationships. Although now that the train has died down and started reversing, information can still be gleaned from why some didnt participate at all in it. Something that I will get round to looking into soon.

Don't see anything fruitful that can be derived from continuing this conversation, so I shall just help add to your table.

Town: DarknessB, Never Unlucky, Eggy
Null: TDL, Spruance
Mafia: secondpassing, Mesk, Unknown/ Iced (haven't really figured this one out yet so plan on rereading/ would like to see more interaction here)

Call me jaded towards TDL's playstyle as I know him fairly well but I still don't see anything that he wouldn't do as either alignment. All of these reads on him are going to be more telling of his alignment than anything he'll do, I imagine.

Given how many town the scum have to mislynch, you can bet that at least one scum is trying to throw shade on me to keep their options open. SP with his pre-flip associations (which he still scum-reads me for even after he retracts his NU vote), Spruance with the shitty meta (this is at least somewhat understandable given that I am acting differently) and Unknown claiming that I wasn't contributing enough when the game started at 11pm for me...lmao.

MattZed/ Eggy in IC, anyone?

[deathworlds]

Fair enough.





Ha.

@MattZed @deathworlds Is it possible to re-post the comment SP made in the sign up thread? I would like to reply to it.

This is beyond my power, MattZed should be able to oblige though.

[Never Unlucky]

Whoaaa I didnt call u very good lol pretty sure I said the opposite if I didnt it was a typo 😂😂 why on earth would ai call you very good? Especially this game lol?

Yup obviously lol

This cannot be all you say after missing 6 pages of posts...

This is beyond my power, MattZed should be able to oblige though.

MattZed has addressed my request. ^^

[secondpassing]

@MattZed
Thank you.

[secondpassing]

-vote Calix

[Never Unlucky]

-vote Calix

Explain this scum-read.

Also pretty suspicious that you cast your vote on Calix right after Iced called you out on it.

[secondpassing]

IMAGE

Explain this scum-read.

Also pretty suspicious that you cast your vote on Calix right after Iced called you out on it.

It's very basic. She jumped onto my train/she supported you, and gut.

Right now, I'm more focused on- catching up, and then responding to your "case" and your "questions".

[secondpassing]

Spruance:I don't see that ever happening so I just type out my observations and vote who I think is mafia lol.
You haven't been leading as much as you usually do. Also you really only put pressure on secondpassing.

Never Unlucky: Calix hasn't put pressure on SP, but k.

Hm, who is she voting? Hmmmmm.

Quote Originally Posted by secondpassing View Post
Funny enough, Spruance's list for lynches is the same as mine right now.

Never Unlucky: You suddenly scum-read TDL! Waouh-ya!

Why? Because he had an interaction with you?

Yeah, and guess what he posted?
Summary of TDL's posts-
"Hey I didn't say that... <later>
Wow secondpassing you're so full of yourself.
You change your town on me.
You have to be scum, or bad." -TheComingDarkness

Never Unlucky: I suppose you now town-read Spruance too seeing as he town-reads you.

Before he posted, by POE yes. After he posted his reads, more so.

Quote Originally Posted by secondpassing View Post
I can't remember why Spruance said TDL was scum. I would now be willing to lynch TDL based on coming back and posting very little.
The only bit he did post was the shade he threw onto me.

As I, DB and Calix said -- Contribution =/= Alignment.
Just because you say it, doesn't mean it's true. True.. Contribution =/= Alignment, but Contribution = Alignment when taken with context.
You should read the third sentence of that post. Has the context.

Quote Originally Posted by secondpassing View Post
I read Calix as scum for the obvious support of Never Unlucky.

"Something something makes strong points against sp. Town." -- as said by Calix.

Never Unlucky: You mean because she supports the case I made on you, right?

While she supports the case you made on me (@Calix, is this true?) I am scum reading her for townreading you according to that post.

This post regards Never Unlucky's post. @Never Unlucky

[Unknown1234]

Those weren't points I was making on SP, those were points criticizing his last post. My case on SP is not based on NAI stuff.



I didn't say that OMGUS voting made SP scum necessarily. I said that the fact that he bases his reads on others' reads makes him appear scummy.



Throwing shade is AI. zzz



Oh, so you agree that 'Lurking = scum', 'Effort = Town', 'happy = town' and 'posting = town'? Probably not.
Yes, it is a discredit. A very needed one.



You've seen me being desperate in previous games (IC and Politico). I am nowhere near this state of mind, I do not understand where you're coming from with this affirmation. I'm also not supporting an early lynch, obviously.

Err, I'm not sure how my posts make you think that I'm trying the best. LMAO XD, sorry.

The four notes you took were taken by me as why you scum-read him, it's perhaps a matter of opinion but I really don't agree with you.

Well, it can be taken this way, but I don't see why town can't have the same thought process as a scum, if they believe that the people they are accusing are scum, why would scum just agree with them? I can't remember the rest if something is out of context then it's my bad.

No, it isn't. People do that in acts of frustration and unintentionally. I can name quite a few people who've done it as town.

No I don't agree with that logic. Why is the discredit needed?

I don't know how to interprete your play this game. You and Calix have spoken a lot, and it's very clear you are trying to copy her style. Whether it's because you are scum and want to seem town or because you are just trying to improve your play.

I think it's obvious to me you are trying way too hard and feel over confident in your reads. Doesn't feel right.

[Unknown1234]

Because at the time, the alternative train was on SP, which I was reading as town. There was time to go for multiple trains and see how people reacted to them, so it was best to make a start on one of the bigger ones, other trains could be moved to later.



You need to stop with the misrep. Not only did you ignore the post that i @mentioned you in initially refuting your point, but you then proceeded to ignore me all together until calix had to bring up your train of thought twice before you realised you needed to make a reply. I also questioned you the first time as to what all these times have been where ive gone into scum lurk mode, and you failed to respond, yet you continue to push this as meta reasoning. Not only have a played few scum games, but ive never lurked as scum. The only game you could possibly be referring to is WoM, where on the third day I dissapeared for a period of around 24hrs, which I explained in that game I was legitimately not around for, I was not at home, and not in a position to be posting on my phone, did that cost me the game? Probably, but you conveniently forgot that for the first two days of that game, it was my trains and my pushes that were lynched. A scum flying under the radar would not have driven two succesful mislynches in the opening of the game. So now reflecting on what has happened this game; What I did at the start of the game was courtesy, I was on for brief periods of time where I was able to read a 1/2 page, or sometimes a full page before leaving again, Instead of just letting my name pop up in the 'on this thread feed', I wanted my fellow players to know that I was indeed reading, and would be posting when possible, instead of not giving a fuck about the game and going lurker mode. Everyone else understood that, except you, because youre attempting to build a flimsy fucking (false) meta case against me.

Which brings me back to calixs point on you not having a vote, which is the scummiest thing thats pinging me so far. If you in any way believed I was scum based on my oh so obvious and totally legit meta, then you wouldve dropped a vote on me, but no, you havent, because you dont want to be flip flopping votes around this whole day looking like you just want to get a lynch off, and you dont want to be analysed if you avoid putting a lynch on a teammate, instead youre setting up these shitty points so that after a train already builds on me (or anyone else you misrepped), you can jump onto it at any time and claim 'oh well i was already scum reading them earlier, remember? so its cool that im here now, not sus at all' and get away with a mislynch. That right there is some scummy shit, and im now going to go back and determine if youre a better lynch candidate than NU.

Also welcome Spruance, and if NU and SP could stop tunneling on eachother, that'd be great.

I can't read this.

[Eggy]

Fair enough.





Ha.

@MattZed @deathworlds Is it possible to re-post the comment SP made in the sign up thread? I would like to reply to it.

so uhhh yea there was supposed to be a not after is and before very lol not important now though

[Unknown1234]

Unknown1234	Spruance	SecondPassing	Never Unlucky
Town	Town	Town	Town
TDL	DarknessB	DarknessB	Calix
DarknessB	SecondPassing	SecondPassing	Eggy
NeverUnlucky	Unknown1234	Unknown1234	NeverUnlucky
SecondPassing	Mesk514	Mesk514	Spruance
Mafia	Eggy	Eggy	Mafia
Calix	Mafia	Mafia	Iced_Monopoly
Mesk514	TDL	TDL	Mesk514
Iced_Monopoly	Never Unlucky	Never Unlucky	TDL
	Calix	Calix	SecondPassing
	Iced_Monopoly	Iced_Monopoly	Null
			DarknessB
			Unknown1234

So this is mostly for me to reference when required for VCA later on, but its also interesting to look at for any potential blocs that may form or be formed. I like that the 4 people creating reads lists for a decent part all town read eachother, or omit eachother from scum lists at the minimum, and that despite an almost unanimous decision that Myself (especially), TDL, and Calix are all scum, 3/4 of them have not put a vote on, or attempted to start a train against any one of us.

I also wanted to use this for interactions, but spruance has posted too little at the moment to draw anything meaningful from this.

Why do you scum-read us four in particular? You haven't really said much about your own opinions.

I don't like this post. It seems like you are trying to seem as if you are benefiting but in reality all you did was make a chart with many flaws that don't give any opinion. The only thing you also take out of it is how convenient your "town bloc" is.

How would this be used for Interactiond exactly?

[Unknown1234]

so uhhh yea there was supposed to be a not after is and before very lol not important now though

The only thing you actually comment on are grammatical errors? Seriously?

[Unknown1234]

I didn't vote because I don't have time to explain everything. I've done as best as I can to contribute, but from my phone and being really busy is not a good combination. I don't want to vote if I can't explain it well and be able to convince people to vote.

[Eggy]

This cannot be all you say after missing 6 pages of posts...



MattZed has addressed my request. ^^

i hadnt read much before I posted that just had to reply because my sanity was in question. Anyway I was intoxicated most of yesterday. I think everyone should completely disregard everything I was previously saying. Mesk is not scum I was just stupid. and in the slight chance she is we got bigger fish to fry. [vote]Never Unlucky[vote]. I dont remember NU pressuring anyone other than second passing( I might be wrong). I strongly believe secondpassing is town and your are all mistaking badness for scummyness, he reminds me of most of the players in the begginer game. scum reading people who scum read him.

Dont think scum would ever be so obvious even if he is a beginner. Also I dont see deathworlds putting him as scum just doesnt seem like something a host would do. Im not sure how roles are assigned though so I dont know.

My lynch pool for today is NU, Unknown, Tdl or spruance I will not vote outside of those unless im faced with substantial evidence.

[Eggy]

-vote Never Unlucky

oops

[Eggy]

The only thing you actually comment on are grammatical errors? Seriously?

Ive been out of it since this game started. Im not going to post very much till I get my mind clear. Im not sure of anything right now really.

[Unknown1234]

Eggy the only thing I really take out of that is where you say "disregard everything I said yesterday". That just seems like a horrible way to cover up your previous play.

[secondpassing]

What follows below is the first four pages before Never Unlucky decides to vote me. I've highlighted all his questions in orange. Answers that are entirely new are in white.
I got bored and formatting this to look prettier is a waste of time. I tried. Then I got bored.

Starts off the Politico-scum!NU way -- makes a mistake and goes back on it marginalizing and discrediting his own post.

Flagging this post for further consideration -- asking people who they'd like to see lynched before any reads has been made implies that you want to lynch players based on RNG/personal stuff rather than reads. This is odd at best and scummy at worse. I don't like it.

First post NU makes is a flag. This mistake could possibly refer to me forgetting to finish my post??? This marginalization is because the things I quoted I didn't think too much of? Where I answer RNG/personal stuff answer

This (so basically your thoughts don't count but you vote me cause? -Mesk514) is exactly the typical mod scum pre-defense. Early scum-read on Mesk.

And I early town-read TDL, what's the difference?

I have a very hard time believing that 'stirring up conversation' was your intent when you made your first posts. Your first post was a bunch of quotes, a RVS vote and not-so-dank memes. How does it 'stir up conversation'?

I don't like that you feel the 'need to post' -- A town would feel the need to contribute to scumhunting even if that's made in only two posts. Quantity doesn't matter. You drawing attention to 'posting' specifically implies that you want to appear active but not necessarily contribute.
You have a hard time making random votes? That makes no sense. A random vote is random, any vote will do. How do you have a hard time randoming someone?
What did you like of TDL's posts?
Are you using one's salt to justify yours?
SP pings me weird so far. Not liking her posts.
@Calix I changed my formatting :3

1. I don't remember, but I stirred it up. You were looking for intent and I missed this the first couple times I read this post. Here's the answer:
Anyway, I was going to ask people who they were more inclined to lynch this game, then I realized that people can just vote... and that I was already voting someone.

So. How was your day? I'm pretty sure I wrote a heck of a lot less than I thought of.
2. The answer was in the quote you quoted: Day one needs to be moved otherwise people sit and wait and die. Second answer: If you feel like people don't 'need to post', do you feel that people 'don't need to post'?
3. Answered with the words: Fact is, I haven't random voted anyone yet.
4. Post 43
5. How is this relevant? And the answer is no.

Where he first 'pings' me.

We do not have similar posting styles: I refrain from making jokes if they're going to be shit.

What things have you made go?

How am I sitting back?

You're making it as RVS was going to make town win the game -- RVS is just a way to start a game. Votes don't mean much, they're just meant to create conversation to then gather reads. Reads are how town wins the game.

1. answers: Awesome, I managed to stir up conversation. I made conversation happen.
2. You sit back by not solidly offering an opinion.
3. I posed this question you didn't answer- I take it you're not going to participate in RVS? What is your alternative plan?

No posts are useless. One of the Mafia Bible golden rules.

Answering nicely makes one a town-read for you? By following your logic, would scum answer impolitely, and that's all sorts of false -- Reaction is mostly based on personality. An asshole will always respond in a dicky manner no matter what his faction is, an Eggy will always answer with flawed logic no matter what his faction is. You can't read someone solely on this aspect.

Weren't you saying that you didn't want the town to sit back? In that sense, you should be voting those who are inactive, no?

1. What's all this NAI stuff spewing around then? There is NAI stuff spewing around.
2. The fact is yes. The answer is in your own question: You can't read someone solely on this aspect.
3. What have I done for the past day? Excuse me, apparently you don't understand questions. I did stuff for the past day.
4. answer to DarknessB: First, because the ones who already had votes on them are closer to being a train. answer to you: TDL: "Voting a lurker doesn't make them turn on their computer and post."

Saying I am focused on your shitty memes is a very big mischaracterization, I've made one on-the-side comment on it in a ~5 paragraphs post -- Scums tend to mischaracterize situations more than town do.

Saying I am not focusing on what's happening is also a mischaracterization. You are unnecessarily attempting to discredit me and responding very passively/aggressively to deflect from the points I've made on your case.

As I said, I doubt that your goal was not to stir up conversation. Your posts didn't feel like they were encouraging conversation at all. They were just "I have posted" posts in my eyes.
If you want to see what posts encouraging convos look like, read DB's posts and my posts.

You saying that those votes were thought out and not random is scary.
It doesn't mean I have a hard time making one, lol. You're deflecting again.

The previous pinged me weird (Not town, but not scum), but THIS post pings me scum. You are deflecting and reacting in a scummy manner with the passive/aggressive post.

Oh, I am ATTACKING your posts? I am not analyzing them nor deciphering them, I am attacking them?

Funny that the only point you concede is something that is completely irrelevant to the game.
You've made it clear that your 'goal' is to create conversation. You don't realize that that is not how a game's won.

What are your reads in that case? I expect better reasons than 'responds nicely'.

1. answer: can you focus on what has actually happened? I think you focused on my meme usage because you bring it up and fail to realize that I made conversation happen.
2. Scary how? Oh wait, that's a question let me answer it for you. You're scared simply because the way I think is different than yours.
3. answer was in the quote you quoted: It appears you have a hard time random voting someone too. Where's your vote?
4. That is how the game is won. You discuss.
5. You expected too much at that point. You were biased against me early on.

Except this ^ obvious reply, you've yet to refute any of the points I made about you. You've instead deflected. Not only that, but you haven't made ANY points on me to justify your vote -- This is a OMGUS vote.

Also, I notice you're giving TDL a lot of credit this game...

As you can see, I've actually already answered most of your points you made about me.

[QUOTE=Never Unlucky;632772]

See below.
You refuted nothing in the below' part. I was referring to the 10+ points I've made about you that are left unanswered.

Do I even need to comment on this? Wrong from A to Z.
I am not a noob anymore. Don't categorize me as such (unless you're Calix/Paladin/DB).
Logic is absent in this sentence.

I've refuted something, obviously. Don't characterize it as nothing.

I've placed my vote.
You're answering with questions all the time, lol. It's deflecting, not answering.

You didn't explain how I was ATTACKING your posts. You didn't give reads. You didn't reply to the mischaracterization. You didn't make ANY points on my case. You didn’t explain how your first few posts would stir up conversation (The ''well it worked, didn’t it’’ argument is a bad one. There’s no way you were trying to appear scummy to have others comment on you.). You didn’t explain how TDL’s post was AI…
You answered jack shit. Get to work.

This is my 4th game, but I am not a noob. I know the game. I'm a better player than some players you'll tag as 'veteran'.

Post link.

[Unknown1234]

Poor play from Eggy this game. Attention has been off him but I think it should be looked at.

[secondpassing]

Poor play from Eggy this game. Attention has been off him but I think it should be looked at.

I don't remember anything bad from him.

[secondpassing]

LONG FRICKIN POST

Summary: I responded to the points Never Unlucky made on me.
In combination with that signup thread thing, I have him at scum lean/null or something.

[Iced_Monopoly]

I can't read this.

11/10 best defence of the game. Youre on point to beat eggy for my mvp vote this game

[Unknown1234]

I don't remember anything bad from him.

Take a look at his constant shifting of reads because people don't agree with him, only voting on people who have reached a slight bit of suspicion, and his comment to ignore everything he's said. I'm sure there's more but this is at the top of my head. What do you think?

[Unknown1234]

11/10 best defence of the game. Youre on point to beat eggy for my mvp vote this game

I know your an asshole, but I actually can't read it. Paragraph it better.

[Unknown1234]

Summary: I responded to the points Never Unlucky made on me.
In combination with that signup thread thing, I have him at scum lean/null or something.

I don't really agree with your point on the setup thread. What does the unsign mean to you?

[Iced_Monopoly]

Why do you scum-read us four in particular? You haven't really said much about your own opinions.

I don't like this post. It seems like you are trying to seem as if you are benefiting but in reality all you did was make a chart with many flaws that don't give any opinion. The only thing you also take out of it is how convenient your "town bloc" is.

How would this be used for Interactiond exactly?

I know reading isnt your forte, but I actually didnt say i scum read you four in particular, youre just the only 4 that have reads list on most, if not all the players.

Secondly, the only flaw was the 3/4 supposed to have been 2/4, which has already been adressed, and hardly detracts from my own gain from having an easy to reference chart.

Third, I dont have a town bloc, i was merely suggesting that should one form, then the dispositions of players towards one another should be looked at, <insert convenient chart here>

The interactions section should be more than obvious, i dont have to go searching too far to find what players were aligned with what players at this point in the game when i need to reference in the future. Pro hint, the word reference was used in my original post, im setting this table up for convenient use for myself, and by extension anyone else that wants to look at it or my thought process.

[secondpassing]

I don't really agree with your point on the setup thread. What does the unsign mean to you?

Calix touched on this. She characterized it wrongly though.
Never Unlucky did not unsign because he wanted Calix in the game, he unsigned because Spruance, Slayer, and possibly me were in it. He made the effort to include me in the quote. If Calix were to join, it would "balance" the level of good play to bad play or something.

Never Unlucky unsigned out of frustration. People get frustrated at town players fighting with them, or with an unresponsive town.

[Iced_Monopoly]

I know your an asshole, but I actually can't read it. Paragraph it better.

I agree that it doesnt have the worlds best structuring in terms of structuring, but other players have already read it fine. Laziness is a pretty shit excuse to not read a section about you and misrepping, which you continue to do.

[secondpassing]

Take a look at his constant shifting of reads because people don't agree with him, only voting on people who have reached a slight bit of suspicion, and his comment to ignore everything he's said. I'm sure there's more but this is at the top of my head. What do you think?

I'll re-look at it, but I think you're mixing him up with Spruance. In my opinion, Spruance did way more shifting of reads; however, neither did it in a way that suggested to me that they were scum.
I used to read heavily into things, and I discovered that I started to scum read experienced town players (who later flipped town) exhibit many scum tells. Just because flip-flopping on reads looks suspicious, I can't sense an anti-town intent from them.

You think they've been opportunistic?

[Unknown1234]

I know reading isnt your forte, but I actually didnt say i scum read you four in particular, youre just the only 4 that have reads list on most, if not all the players.

Secondly, the only flaw was the 3/4 supposed to have been 2/4, which has already been adressed, and hardly detracts from my own gain from having an easy to reference chart.

Third, I dont have a town bloc, i was merely suggesting that should one form, then the dispositions of players towards one another should be looked at, <insert convenient chart here>

The interactions section should be more than obvious, i dont have to go searching too far to find what players were aligned with what players at this point in the game when i need to reference in the future. Pro hint, the word reference was used in my original post, im setting this table up for convenient use for myself, and by extension anyone else that wants to look at it or my thought process.

Keep being an asshole.

No, your reads are completely off. You are speaking for other people which does, what? I can already tell you more then one of the points involving me is wrong, so why use false data? My point stands that you used it to gain town-cred.

You were pretty quick with that Town Bloc point. Feels to me you are possibly forcing people into a town bloc based on who they voted and who they scum-read.

Keep it up with the snarky comments, the game isn't to piss off town though and I can tell you are angry. Also, I don't like your use of "Pro hint" which itself in a way just makes me bad. I really do think the choice of wording reflects on a players alignment.

But the chart you are using has false data. Did you even check your information? I can't even say you used my early reads list or other ones because it isn't even possible to consider it. Either you made a couple mistakes or you just threw it all together without actually considering it.

[secondpassing]

I agree that it doesnt have the worlds best structuring in terms of structuring, but other players have already read it fine. Laziness is a pretty shit excuse to not read a section about you and misrepping, which you continue to do.

If I may so add, Never Unlucky actually misapplied your post to me. So yes, other players are having a bit of trouble reading it.

[Unknown1234]

I agree that it doesnt have the worlds best structuring in terms of structuring, but other players have already read it fine. Laziness is a pretty shit excuse to not read a section about you and misrepping, which you continue to do.

I don't know why you continue to believe im not responding based on laziness. I don't avoid posts btw. I actually have a head injury (can't say for sure if concussion, not likely) but it makes it difficult for me to read everything.

[Unknown1234]

I'll re-look at it, but I think you're mixing him up with Spruance. In my opinion, Spruance did way more shifting of reads; however, neither did it in a way that suggested to me that they were scum.
I used to read heavily into things, and I discovered that I started to scum read experienced town players (who later flipped town) exhibit many scum tells. Just because flip-flopping on reads looks suspicious, I can't sense an anti-town intent from them.

You think they've been opportunistic?

Eggy is know. For his "under the radar" playstyle as scum which is where we are going right now. Eggy scum-read NU, swapped when I made a point, but then swapped back again and put NU in his scum pile. He also puts players who aren't favoured (Secondpassing, me) into his scum pile without original explanations on either of us. I can't remember anything he said on TDL.

[Unknown1234]

Calix touched on this. She characterized it wrongly though.
Never Unlucky did not unsign because he wanted Calix in the game, he unsigned because Spruance, Slayer, and possibly me were in it. He made the effort to include me in the quote. If Calix were to join, it would "balance" the level of good play to bad play or something.

Never Unlucky unsigned out of frustration. People get frustrated at town players fighting with them, or with an unresponsive town.

This doesn't make sense to me. Why would a previous unsign matter? If he doesn't want to play with certain people then that's up to him, but given he had no role it's actually a really lousy explanation.

I feel like I missed something, this felt too obvious.

[Iced_Monopoly]

Keep being an asshole.

No, your reads are completely off. You are speaking for other people which does, what? I can already tell you more then one of the points involving me is wrong, so why use false data? My point stands that you used it to gain town-cred.

You were pretty quick with that Town Bloc point. Feels to me you are possibly forcing people into a town bloc based on who they voted and who they scum-read.

Keep it up with the snarky comments, the game isn't to piss off town though and I can tell you are angry. Also, I don't like your use of "Pro hint" which itself in a way just makes me bad. I really do think the choice of wording reflects on a players alignment.

But the chart you are using has false data. Did you even check your information? I can't even say you used my early reads list or other ones because it isn't even possible to consider it. Either you made a couple mistakes or you just threw it all together without actually considering it.

What reads? How are they off if I didnt post any of my reads in that post. Which of the points involving you is wrong? All i did was find your reads list and add it to the table. Once again, what false data, this is taken straight from the thread.

Of course there are snarky comments, all youve done is misrep me all game, atleast i havnt resorted to actually calling you an asshole?

Unless I put someones name in the wrong column on the table, then that was your read list, feel free to go ahead and paste your actual reads list again next to the table, but thats what I had.

[Unknown1234]

What reads? How are they off if I didnt post any of my reads in that post. Which of the points involving you is wrong? All i did was find your reads list and add it to the table. Once again, what false data, this is taken straight from the thread.

Of course there are snarky comments, all youve done is misrep me all game, atleast i havnt resorted to actually calling you an asshole?

Unless I put someones name in the wrong column on the table, then that was your read list, feel free to go ahead and paste your actual reads list again next to the table, but thats what I had.

I really haven't misrepresented you as far as I can remember, if you said it in that long post then don't expect me to include this in my discussion.

Well, since my point hasn't been made clear, I feel your play is similar to IM. Maybe you don't consider yourself a lurker, but I don't consider you a high poster. All game you were hiding under the radar, you even RVS'd your own teammate early on for less suspicion. The way you play makes me feel like it's very similar, and I feel as if it could be the same response.

I'm starting to realize I make a lot of reasons why I do shit wrong, but I apologize. Between my head injury and my really busy schedule, it's especially hard to read and remember everything. You are lacking communication. You immediately return to being against me because of the "misreps" I've created (true or not it's never intentional) but don't try to discuss this at all. It makes me think, and I'm thinking that you don't really have towns interest at heart when playing.

[secondpassing]

This doesn't make sense to me. Why would a previous unsign matter? If he doesn't want to play with certain people then that's up to him, but given he had no role it's actually a really lousy explanation.

I feel like I missed something, this felt too obvious.

He unsigned during the course of this game.

[Unknown1234]

Let me further my point on why I believe the chart wasn't even made accurately and thrown together to look like effort.

1.) my reads list didn't have Spruance on it, and apparently I town-read him.

2.) Mesk514 never scum-read me, she actually said she agreed with most of my points.

3.) I never said Null on NU, it was pretty clear it was a town-read.

4.) Never Unlucky doesn't town-read himself.

Maybe there's more, but as a rough view you can see my perspective.

[Unknown1234]

He unsigned during the course of this game.

What?

[secondpassing]

What?

Me and Never Unlucky had a fight/dicussion/heated debate/mud sling I voted him, he voted me. Then this morning he unsigned from that game.
I might be reading too much into it.

[Unknown1234]

Me and Never Unlucky had a fight/dicussion/heated debate/mud sling I voted him, he voted me. Then this morning he unsigned from that game.
I might be reading too much into it.

Okay, I don't understand this at all. I think I need some sleep.

[Iced_Monopoly]

Let me further my point on why I believe the chart wasn't even made accurately and thrown together to look like effort.

1.) my reads list didn't have Spruance on it, and apparently I town-read him.

2.) Mesk514 never scum-read me, she actually said she agreed with most of my points.

3.) I never said Null on NU, it was pretty clear it was a town-read.

4.) Never Unlucky doesn't town-read himself.

Maybe there's more, but as a rough view you can see my perspective.

I will have to double check the lists when I get to a pc, as for your mesk comment, there is no mesk column in the table, also pretty sure you didnt have nulls, only town or scum and spruance hadnt voted yet, and i remember thinking the same thing about NU when i put it in, im pretty certain he included himself in his reads list.

Regardless will be double checking when possible

[Unknown1234]

I will have to double check the lists when I get to a pc, as for your mesk comment, there is no mesk column in the table, also pretty sure you didnt have nulls, only town or scum and spruance hadnt voted yet, and i remember thinking the same thing about NU when i put it in, im pretty certain he included himself in his reads list.

Regardless will be double checking when possible

I think I read it wrong or understood it wrong.