S-FM 303: Summer 2020 (Newbie Game)

[Zedus]

For town invests and protectives, I offer: Invest me and protect Martin. Or invest Martin and protect me. Up to you.

[Zedus]

I will not explain reasons why it will be a good choice. Only after you confirm me or him.

[Renegade]

@Renegade - Seems perceptive and intelligent but has been avoiding taking firm clear stances. Could easily be scum trying to stay under the radar. Scum lean.

I would like to point out that I have been voting those that seem scummy to me. I feel a vote is the most clear way of taking a stance. Any comparing me to Hellantis ... meh, but okay.

[Ash Lael]

Good night.
I have no idea what I will be doing today (26 June) all the day. I may be active just as yesterday, or will be unable to contribute in significant way. I hope you will find something to agree on.

I will leave you with one question.
Is it worth using invest roles on Zedus and Martin?

If we have investigative roles I trust them to investigate the most suspicious players.

[Ash Lael]

For town invests and protectives, I offer: Invest me and protect Martin. Or invest Martin and protect me. Up to you.

Ok, this is just bullshit. First you’re hellbent on lynching the guy - even if he’s town - and now you want him protected?

[Ash Lael]

I would like to point out that I have been voting those that seem scummy to me. I feel a vote is the most clear way of taking a stance. Any comparing me to Hellantis ... meh, but okay.

Fair point.

-vote Zedus

[Auwt]

As to myself I see 2 scum team comp possible at the moment.

First one is Zedus/bakermir,
I'm pretty sure at least one of them is on the dark side. They both tunneled very hard on Martin, and as Zedus said, he is ready to see Martin be lynched even though he might be a townie. He has his own reason, we probably wont make him change his mind (although I dont like this mindset). Bakermir on the other hand blindly followed Ash's early vote on Martin without saying much reasons, could be seen as an attempt to get a train starting.

The second one is Dallarian/Martin, as I said Dallarian like using non town inclusive pronouns and speech and tried his best to get Martin in a safer spot. Martin could be seen as a misleading townie as Zedus pointed out some post above in that case.

I will try to look more into those possibilites.
Making those kind of post could significantly help us in the next days, everyone should consider trying to make a bind between someone you voted and their possible ally.

[Ash Lael]

As to myself I see 2 scum team comp possible at the moment.

First one is Zedus/bakermir,
I'm pretty sure at least one of them is on the dark side. They both tunneled very hard on Martin, and as Zedus said, he is ready to see Martin be lynched even though he might be a townie. He has his own reason, we probably wont make him change his mind (although I dont like this mindset). Bakermir on the other hand blindly followed Ash's early vote on Martin without saying much reasons, could be seen as an attempt to get a train starting.

The second one is Dallarian/Martin, as I said Dallarian like using non town inclusive pronouns and speech and tried his best to get Martin in a safer spot. Martin could be seen as a misleading townie as Zedus pointed out some post above in that case.

I will try to look more into those possibilites.
Making those kind of post could significantly help us in the next days, everyone should consider trying to make a bind between someone you voted and their possible ally.

Tinfoil theory: Martin/Auwt powerwolf combo. They’re both pushing the Zedus/bakemir combo, could have coordinated that in scum chat.

Yeah, probably not.

[Ash Lael]

Gun to my head, I’d say it’s Zedus/Grakylan.

[Zedus]

As to myself I see 2 scum team comp possible at the moment.

First one is Zedus/bakermir,

Who is bakermir? I don't even remember someone with this nickname posted something here

Easy evil strat:
1. Сonvince the town that they need to lynch someone d1 (like Martin did)
2. Join the vote against anyone who will be voted.

That's why so obvious Martin's ally can be hidden, and just vote with him in some times and lynch some townie.

Also, I pointing that Ash Lael voted me after I pretended to be probably town invest. Remember that.

[Zedus]

Tinfoil theory: Martin/Auwt powerwolf combo. They’re both pushing the Zedus/bakemir combo, could have coordinated that in scum chat.

Scum chat working olny at night, isn't it?

[Zedus]

Oh, bakemir is guy with frog face. He is my ally because I called him liar? Great logic, be our mayor, please, lol.

[MartinGG99]

It's not "bitching". Ignore someone, who forced himself to lead the town, but not competent enough for that is basic game thing in IRL mafia.

It does. Then some stupid person with a bloated ego (or just a player with evil role) trying to lead the town, it's better to stop that. If you give him such an opportunity, the consequences for the town will be disastrous.

I did. This player trying to lead the town. But he is very bad in it.

What is the basis for this? What makes you think such a statement is okay to say to anyone?

[MartinGG99]

his player trying to draw all attention to himself, trying to lead (more precisely - misslead) the town, made more posts then everyone

Is this the only reason that you disapprove of me? Anyone would make more posts than anyone else if they were being attacked by people.

[MartinGG99]

I ignoring all his posts at the moment, because that posts do not contain anything useful and important for the victory of the town.

Since when are reads, discussion and communication not important?

[Ash Lael]

Who is bakermir? I don't even remember someone with this nickname posted something here

Easy evil strat:
1. Сonvince the town that they need to lynch someone d1 (like Martin did)
2. Join the vote against anyone who will be voted.

That's why so obvious Martin's ally can be hidden, and just vote with him in some times and lynch some townie.

Also, I pointing that Ash Lael voted me after I pretended to be probably town invest. Remember that.

I voted you after you displayed absolutely no regard for consistency with your previous, allegedly fervent view that Martin should die.

And no, I’m not going to be dissuaded from voting a scum by the world’s most obvious soft claim.

[Zedus]

@Auwt explain why are we ally with that bakemir, it's realy very interesting to know

[MartinGG99]

Now, for reasons unrelated to the Zedus wall post, I think it is fair to do this, since way before that he was on my scum list. It'll move him to L-2.

[vote]Zedus[/Zedus]

Except, I want to make use of the time till EOD. Discussion is important to the town. So i wont vote. But when EOD comes, my vote is on him.

[Unvote]Zedus[/Zedus]

[MartinGG99]

Oh LOL @ my typing error with the votes. Rip. But you get the point.

[Zedus]

I voted you after you displayed absolutely no regard for consistency with your previous, allegedly fervent view that Martin should die.

He will die only with 5 votes. But if someone should die, better for town if this will be main missleader, who dropped bullshit "it will be good to lynch someone d1" and disappeared now, then someone else.

[Ash Lael]

He will die only with 5 votes. But if someone should die, better for town if this will be main missleader, who dropped bullshit "it will be good to lynch someone d1" and disappeared now, then someone else.

He’s not disappeared, he’s posting right now.

And if you’re so sure he should die, why are you telling our power roles to protect him?

[MartinGG99]

@Auwt explain why are we ally with that bakemir, it's realy very interesting to know

Well I'm glad to see you aren't focusing on me anymore for that post. But if it helps, in my case the only other person I have scumread is Bakermir. So if this game must have 2 mafias, then you're guilty by simply being suspected as scum together. The only connection is both of you vote me, and continue to do so.

[Zedus]

So i wont vote. But when EOD comes, my vote is on him.

[Unvote]Zedus[/Zedus]

Ahahahahhaa, and that's DEFINITELY the mafia strat I described before

No more doubts that's you are just a dumb town. You are evil.

[MartinGG99]

Oh wow, there is literally an ignore list. He probably used it. I did a test.

[Ash Lael]

Scum chat working olny at night, isn't it?

Is it? I went back and checked the set up post, can’t find anything about it. I assumed it would be always open like on other sites (well, MU, since that’s where I’ve played).

[MartinGG99]

Ahahahahhaa, and that's DEFINITELY the mafia strat I described before

No more doubts that's you are just a dumb town. You are evil.

This proves you read my posts, man. Your continued use of certain words means that the in my previous posts, where i asked if it was okay to insult someone, you thought it was.

[Zedus]

The only connection is both of you vote me, and continue to do so.

Lie again, scum. Grakylan did that too, but unvoted for some weak reasons.

[Renegade]

He’s not disappeared, he’s posting right now.

And if you’re so sure he should die, why are you telling our power roles to protect him?

Zedus has barely made sense since the start of the game.

[Ash Lael]

Zedus has barely made sense since the start of the game.

You’re not wrong, but I still want to hear whatever bullshit reason he comes up with.

[Zedus]

Oh wow, there is literally an ignore list.

You voted me, according to evil strat I explained before.
Your REAL goal is randomly lynch some townie d1 (as I said before), and after you got some votes on other player (me), you joined it. This dumb and easy strat can realy work, because this is newbie game, and it's not so obvious for most of players what you want to do (even after I literally explained that a few posts before you did that, lol).
There is no way for you to be townie. It's 100% evil strat. Well, maybe 99%, 1% is that's you are incredibly dumb.

[MartinGG99]

Lie again, scum. Grakylan did that too, but unvoted for some weak reasons.

This at no point involved Grakylan. I was stating the connection between you and Bakermir, not Grakylan. Similarly Ash Lael did vote for me in the past too. But that statement didn't involve him because it was about Bakemir and you voting me. Also, Bakermir hasn't proven how he is not scum to me, and therefore him being the only other scum read other than you means he is likely to be your teammate if you are scum.

[MartinGG99]

1% is that's you are incredibly dumb.

@SuperJack
I asked in a previous post if Zedus was okay with personal attacks towards anyone. He has been reading my posts quite clearly, and hasn't responded to it. In the above quote he tries to insult me again, after my question if it was okay. So, I ask you, Is this okay behavior?

[Zedus]

And if you’re so sure he should die, why are you telling our power roles to protect him?

First, I said check him OR me, and protect him OR me.
Second, I told I will explain this after I will be confirmed. Or he will be. Not now. This is kinda town strat you don't know. If you are prot/invest, you can try it or ignore, up to you.

[Zedus]

I was stating the connection between you and Bakermir, not Grakylan.

But there is NO connection between us, except we both voting lynch-happy missleader.
Real connection between you and your Lord Protector, who even trying to save you from invest check, not only from lynch, is strong as hell.

[Ash Lael]

First, I said check him OR me, and protect him OR me.
Second, I told I will explain this after I will be confirmed. Or he will be. Not now. This is kinda town strat you don't know. If you are prot/invest, you can try it or ignore, up to you.

I went back and looked through the role list again and I still see absolutely no way it is beneficial for town to protect a likely scum. So please, explain your brilliant strategy.

[SuperJack]

@SuperJack
I asked in a previous post if Zedus was okay with personal attacks towards anyone. He has been reading my posts quite clearly, and hasn't responded to it. In the above quote he tries to insult me again, after my question if it was okay. So, I ask you, Is this okay behavior?

There is nothing forcing a player to interact you.

Strong or repeated personal insults are not part of the game. If there is a post that you think is breaching that please use the report system or PM me with a link.

9. Do not personally insult players. Mafia is a game of debates; it is normal to criticize one's play or reads. However, attacking a member with personal insults that are strong or repeated is strictly forbidden.

[Zedus]

I still see absolutely no way it is beneficial for town to protect a likely scum.

Yes, you are. That's how this works.

So please, explain your brilliant strategy.

Strat will not work if I will explain it. Once more, you can try to do that or ignore that, up to you.

[Renegade]

I went back and looked through the role list again and I still see absolutely no way it is beneficial for town to protect a likely scum. So please, explain your brilliant strategy.

He is claiming vigi and gonna shoot marino.... What an idiot.

[MartinGG99]

There is nothing forcing a player to interact you.

Strong or repeated personal insults are not part of the game. If there is a post that you think is breaching that please use the report system or PM me with a link.

*shrug* okay then. I guess the bars are higher than Zedus. But at least the host pointed the rule out for me. I doubt Zedus would've believed me if i posted it.

[MartinGG99]

He is claiming vigi and gonna shoot marino.... What an idiot.

Is this supposed to be Renegade being G00FY? Please explain.

[Ash Lael]

He is claiming vigi and gonna shoot marino.... What an idiot.

This still makes no sense. Why tell people to protect a scum you’re shooting?

[Ash Lael]

Strat will not work if I will explain it. Once more, you can try to do that or ignore that, up to you.

You might as well explain it now because the way things are going you’re probably not going to be alive tonight to carry out your secret plan.

[MartinGG99]

I'll be honest, around 1 hour or two before Auwt and Dallarian leave for the day (since they're EU), i suggest we lynch then. Otherwise we wont be able to lynch, since lynches require 51% vote, and don't lynch based on leftover votes at the very EOD.

[Zedus]

You might as well explain it now because the way things are going you’re probably not going to be alive tonight to carry out your secret plan.

That's part of the plan too. I explained mafia strat they are using now to lynch a townie d1. I hope the town has enough brains to draw conclusions after they will do this. If noone will be lynched (realy best choice for non-evils), strat will probably work (high chance).

[Ash Lael]

That's part of the plan too. I explained mafia strat they are using now to lynch a townie d1. I hope the town has enough brains to draw conclusions after they will do this. If noone will be lynched (realy best choice for non-evils), strat will probably work (high chance).

I mean you’re not going to be alive because you’re getting lynched.

[Renegade]

That's part of the plan too. I explained mafia strat they are using now to lynch a townie d1. I hope the town has enough brains to draw conclusions after they will do this. If noone will be lynched (realy best choice for non-evils), strat will probably work (high chance).

Talk about distracting babble hurting the town, you screamed at marino for this kind of goofiness.

[Zedus]

I mean you’re not going to be alive because you’re getting lynched.

Read my answer to you AGAIN please.

[bakermir]

So I was away for a while and damn this is so hard to read every post and try to stay active in the game by giving input. Now I just wanted to go with the flow you know, check the latest posts and write something off but hey, here I am trying to leave a comment on every post been made past 12+ hours I have been missing. I still believe this period was quite productive. Especially some people showing their teeth already. I like that.

I also don't want to make it sound like what I am saying is big deal and there is nothing that will make anyone go OOF like with my "trial" and push on Martin earlier.

Obviously, I did not know about the trial mechanic. But now I do thanks to you guys. I believed it works just like in mod but I was wrong.

I apologize to everyone here for that aggression. I admit it did look very scummy and Auwt was the first one to call it out and present it to everyone in his words. He knows this is my first FM game but in his opinion I am a big scum. Just because I appeared to be pushing for lynch and that makes him think I am some evil trying to trick other new players into believing there is "trial".

It is Day One though. So I am still going to take Auwt's aggression with a pinch of salt. I suggest the same for everyone.


Now some comments on what have been said:

True. But I thought it might help guide our feelings and thoughts as to what the town should do. Obviously, i'm on the boat that says to figure out who to lynch, and that it should be someone, today. Can't rely on TP's if its 50/50 that they'll just get killed tonight, or the low chances for each TPR to learn something or do something useful the next night phase. The only excuse really is jailor, who can only work without a lynch. But by the time we ascertain we have a jailor, its likely they've already revealed and that would be unfortunate as they would be night killed.

This is not the first time you talking about mafia's odds and their perspective. It is Day One. We gather reads and information based on what people say and do through social interactions. We profile each player. You keep talking about power roles and from what I see; you stress so much about mafia's odds and power roles.

that's just yikes

EU activity window is going to close within 1-4 hours, so if you want to engage in discussion in mid of D1, better hurry up. After that window we will have lose discussion as earlier today and decisions shall be made a few hours before end of D1.
@bakermir
@Renegate
@Ash Lael
@Zedus (EU player?)
@Grakylan (EU player?)

Consider me NA these days

Is anyone going to join me on vote against Zedus? I find it weird that everyone got on Martin so quickly, and while Zedus is so suspicious and scumread by a lot of people I am the only person voting on him.

Yeah, just as I start to think I misunderstood you, but then you going aggressive here makes me doubt it all. Still you are almost Town Investigative in many peoples eyes according to your posts and I will go with the flow here.

Hey, I am not the lawyer of Zedus. Hell, I don't even trust the guy a single bit. But some of his posts pointed out some details to Martin's inconsistencies. Like, I believe his attention to detail and effort is good enough for me. If you think Zedus is scum because he joined the vote, then I don't know what to say about that.

I will eventually be flip floping between Zedus and bakermir if I vote right now.
I'm really willing to see more (and newer) post from them so I can make sure I get the scummier.

What is stopping you from voting me? Your latest posts have been focused on paving a road to lynch against me. I think this is metagaming and thats evil in my eyes.


Still, we have a much more pressing matter here and people seem to turn a blind eye to it;

Considering everyone has been here since Zedus has arrived and posted, I thought about my reads a fair bit for everyone.

Town

Ash Lael: I think he's definitely town since he went (comparatively) tooth and nail to question me. Also given reads twice.

Town Lean

Dallarian + Awut: Both of these could have siezed the opportunity to vote me, (or even just pressure me for that matter), but didn't. Also explained the concept of avoiding hammer risks and that lynching ends day.

Null

Bakemir: I might put him on town lean. Primarily because he gave a read.

Helltanis: Most posts are related to the fact that he's new the FM.

Renegade: Im unsure about him. He has given some reads. He hasn't voted me, but in retrospect given the circumstance when he was active I'd say voting me tempoairly might've been more towny, given that only 4 people were there at the time. But who am I to say? It just might be a place/topic to enter endless WIFOM.

Scum Lean

Zedus: Provided, he hasn't posted much. But with his posts all he has done is socialize a tiny bit with no content, and just vote me with only 2 posts explaining why. Also, as I see it, he was implying that a no-lynch was better than any lynch at all. But I could be wrong given that he voted me.

Grakylan: Worse than Zedus in my opinion, only three posts. Also presumably tried to vote me. I don't like how he picks on my reference to depression & me in regards to my response to Ash's question as to what brings me to FM. I think this is completely unrelated to the game at hand. He also self admits being hasty in reading the thread...Is he not seriously considering or analyzing the discussions?

Scum

This was posted at June 25th, 2020, 06:13 PM, slightly after I pushed for a "trial" on him in huge red letters.

Then Auwt opened the can of worms at #154

After this point the attention turned to Zedus and me for reasons.

But then Martin had a big change in mood and words. Joined the bandwagon eventually by mentioning the terrible duo "Zedus-Bakermir" in the following quotes from post #244 at June 26th, 2020, 12:14 AM

Here are my Scum-Lean Reads (they might as well be scum reads at this point, if all else is correct):

Bakermir: Initially I felt he may have been town since he gave early reads, and questioned me too, but his questioning just felt very vague or open-ended. He hasn't really reacted to the others much. Also, half of his reads are nulls, and only 2 leans, while marking me as full-on scum.

Zedus: This guy has been tunneled on me over some math, and that's preety much all he has ever done. He doesn't seemed concerned in the slightest by others. Also, he seems to believe most lynches on day 1 must be random lynches, and therefore that implies he wants no lynches at all on day 1.

Yes, half of my reads are null because it is Day One and I don't want to draw targets on people or manipulate. It was quite early into the game.



This really got me;

Alright I think I got a first attempt at a solve, or a good enough one for now, with my reads.

These people who I am certain 100% , for now, that are town:

Grakylan: It may not look like it, but I think he's absolutely town based on his given read. Look at just how many people he suspects or just leans. It matches the paranoia that can come with being a townie. Or even being AFK for that long due to IRL stuff that he had to deal with. I highly doubt he's scum.

Like what the hell? Am I the only one that sees evil in Martin? HOw inaccurate and manipulative a read could be?

Martin, please correct me. Nothing personal but I seriously don't see any good intent in you. Explain your logic on this because I seriously don't see why a townie would be paranoid on Day One.



Well..

Hopefully we get to see more blunders and I might change my vote then. It is going good so far everyone. Thanks again for pointing out my mistake about "trial-lynch" others.

But for now; Martin have been very inconsistent and most of his actions give away bad vibes to me.

I am keeping my vote on him.

[MartinGG99]

That's part of the plan too. I explained mafia strat they are using now to lynch a townie d1. I hope the town has enough brains to draw conclusions after they will do this. If noone will be lynched (realy best choice for non-evils), strat will probably work (high chance).

Asserting intellectual superiority and insulting everyone isn't what I call team-work that town in FM games often needs...Do you have any reasons for thinking this will convince the other townies to your cause?

On a more serious note, how could insults ever be a towny thing to say?

[MartinGG99]

Asserting intellectual superiority and insulting everyone isn't what I call team-work that town in FM games often needs...Do you have any reasons for thinking this will convince the other townies to your cause?

On a more serious note, how could insults ever be a towny thing to say?

Continuing on, I don't recall anyone else in this town insulting one another.