S-FM A Forum Mafia Spring Beginning

[ika]

Fury had the ultimate choice as the mafiso, but I just wanted to kill 22 as it was clear he was the most experienced town. Kill the strong town, leave the weak town. Thats at least the logic in real life mafia

well i do give creit in that sense cus thats kinda a good way to play. kill off exeperinced players and leave it to newbie/lurkers.

i give you props for living so long too

[ika]

Good to see you too. Fury and Rachyl probably know 22 from the sc2 map just as well as I do, so it was never too big of a smoking gun on any of us.

As for Alijach there were other reasons to give him a town read, the main one probably being ccantman's casual supposition that the scum were almost certainly two active players. The other was ccantman's attempt to defend Alijach, which the town should never have taken at face value. His posts when he made them also tended to be lengthy and discoursive, which I read as somewhat pro-town.



I hoped Rachyl had a strategy and was just waiting for scum to divulge their knownledge of something they couldn't possibly know as town in that situation (eg. slipping that they know who got attacked), and then reveal to the other townies who the target was maybe within the first 24 hours. But she just kinda sat on the information and did nothing with it, which was disappointing.

i bet there would be if i looked ofr associatives and stuff but im kinda going more off top of head.

i find length of post and info in it is moot point becasue i have known scum!sw to be able to pull off such things. i like looking more at the motive/tone/intention behind a post. its why i tend to not ever wall post nor care for it. if you can make your point in a few sentences i rather have that

[Fury]

the day i was lynched, Fury why didn't you hammer me immeditayly? were you going off the chance allijach stayed afk and win during the night?

Wouldn't the instant hammer, no kill next night,help the allijach lynch?

Yea I was betting on Alijach staying afk. I was honestly lazy in that in that I didn't want to play the game from that behind x.x but I shouldn't have disrespected town that hard.

[Gyrlander]

Well, very good job Fury. I thought that you could have not night-killed to incriminate Fury, but didn't think that would be the case. I should have re-read the other days before making a decision, but Alijach just was too "in the air" for my body to ignore him.

Thank you SJ for hosting as well!

[Fury]

Well, very good job Fury. I thought that you could have not night-killed to incriminate Fury, but didn't think that would be the case. I should have re-read the other days before making a decision, but Alijach just was too "in the air" for my body to ignore him.

Thank you SJ for hosting as well!

Yea, but Alijach's posts did make a lot of assumptions and honestly did have contradictions in them.

[ika]

Yea, but Alijach's posts did make a lot of assumptions and honestly did have contradictions in them.

contradictions =/= scum

assumptions =/= scum

ill have another post on this later, me and sw are going to get food

[Gyrlander]

Yea, but Alijach's posts did make a lot of assumptions and honestly did have contradictions in them.

Yeah, still, he played and tried. I feel bad for totally dismissing his posts and giving you the win though.

Now that I know that you'll try hard and good as scum I won't make the same mistake :P

[Fury]

contradictions =/= scum

assumptions =/= scum

ill have another post on this later, me and sw are going to get food

I suppose that's true. I just look at it from the perspective whereby if he cannot reasonably argue that I am guilty, then I'm not guilty. Hindsight is 20/20, but he couldn't say that I was mafia in a concise way.

Yeah, still, he played and tried. I feel bad for totally dismissing his posts and giving you the win though.

Now that I know that you'll try hard and good as scum I won't make the same mistake :P

I looked through his posts though, and his posts were riddled with blatant lies. I think a reasonable person would have made the same decision.


Or maybe ika posts why that is wrong later, but, the way I see it, you have to be able to argue why someone is guilty instead of just saying "they feel like scum so yolo"

[Varnic]

Hiya. Thanks for lyching me on the first day with a billion hours left, before I could even defend myself properly.

[Stealthbomber16]

And yes, I'm surprised they didn't call for a no lynch. It was the correct play for town, but I tried to draw as much attention away from it as possible. Alijach said "If we mislynch, it's gg," so I didn't respond to that.

If you no lynch then you just kill Rachyl and town is right back where it started, except worse.

Thanks but I could also be town doing a fake jester impression.

WIFOM before the game even begins. This is some type shit going on right now.

the day i was lynched, Fury why didn't you hammer me immeditayly? were you going off the chance allijach stayed afk and win during the night?

Wouldn't the instant hammer, no kill next night,help the allijach lynch?

If Alijach hadn't come back I would've asked him if he would be okay with me replacing in for him. Alijach was very active (and apologetic) in skype chat with me, his mentor. I think he played quite well the day he was here, but MVP definitely goes to Fury imo.

Hiya. Thanks for lyching me on the first day with a billion hours left, before I could even defend myself properly.

What really did it for me imo was the fact that you weren't really taking a side. You felt like you were in the air, mediating the discussion, keeping everyone from killing themselves. It gave me a very ominous feeling. I didn't disagree with your lynch, but I certainly was not surprised that you were citizen.

I really liked how much time you devoted to the game, and I would really appreciate it if you stayed for another round. Maybe next time you'll get jester!


All around I'm very impressed with everyone's play here. Mentoring was a fun experience and if we do so happen to have another newbie game I will happily do it again.
Thanks to @SuperJack for hosting it!

[srceenplay]

Gg scum.

I literally had a post written up questioning fury if he really would vote cantman. When I posted thread was locked.
I am not used to short days and should have actively hunted harder.


I have played on another site. Helz is the one who told me about FM. I tried to get into a game and while waiting started on another site.

I really think my early actions clouded people's judgement on me. Everyone was stuck on the actions and not outcomes.

I also didn't like the thought that was said that I was trying to kill town. That's not true and people shouldn't have feel into that thought. I was scum hunting and town happened to get in the way.

Again GG everyone.

[srceenplay]

Thanks for the game superjack

[Fury]

If you no lynch then you just kill Rachyl and town is right back where it started, except worse.

Yes, but due to some of the mistakes I made, more time would have made those actions more likely to surface.

[Fury]

And thank you stealth looking forward to the WIFOM

[Alijach]

Hey guys! gg for everyone!

Special thanks to my mentor, @Stealthbomber16 and @SuperJack for showing me tha game, it was a really good experience!

I'll do the recap in just a moment,

[Alijach]

Didn't help Alijach's long absences made him the "obvious" target late game.

I'm really sorry about that, the surgery was an urgency, I wasn't expecting it either, it was some shock value added to my thought procces, so I couldn't be at my 100%, I'm really sorry.

And yes, I'm surprised they didn't call for a no lynch. It was the correct play for town, but I tried to draw as much attention away from it as possible. Alijach said "If we mislynch, it's gg," so I didn't respond to that.

And yes, I'm surprised they didn't call for a no lynch. It was the correct play for town, but I tried to draw as much attention away from it as possible. Alijach said "If we mislynch, it's gg," so I didn't respond to that.

How was my process in the last night? I mean, it made sense, right? If only I didn't contradict myself that much, but when they told me "contradictions =/= scum" made sense, because the only ones with the full control and sight range are the mafia.

Alijach's commitment when he could play was very good. He just had something personal going on. Which meant he missed out on a Day.

"No thanks! My dad was moved from the intensive care unit to now a normal room; Now I can play again like, 100% normal; Thanks for the suggestion, but I will be more active now, the worst ended" I'm here to kick ass and chew bubble gum, and i'm all out of bubble gum, let's do this, LEEEROOOOOOOY JEEEEEEENKINS"
I was really excited to play my first game, I really didn't want to get the replacement , just so I can make it out the lasts days with my full effort. It won't happen again (I hope); and I'll do my best to redeem myself and be a fair opponent/partner in the next game!

This is the one thing that baffled me. In a lylo situation, as a confirmed PR with information that can help town, you should ALWAYS share it. And roleplaying like that in lylo does not help town either.

A dr. who knows when they get a successful heal, is information regardless of whether or not they get feedback. Doc should of said I tried to heal X and didn't get feedback. That says either mafia no killed intentionally or scum was afk. This could of helped town decide if they wanted to lynch or not.

That said, Fury did a great job this game and I was impressed how he got the lynch off himself at the end and convinced gyrlander and later Rachyl to vote the other guy. That was good scumplay and I hope plays again here. I am still on mafia hiatus for awhile but would love to play with him in the future.

gg guys, you all did well

Also, as a side note, I wouldn't recommend claiming anything, even citizen in this setup unless you are at least at L-2 because it does narrow down who the PR's are or outs yourself too early if you are one yourself.

This is a really good advice. I will use it later on in other games. And I think the no-info from doctor was crucial for the scum win, as we assumed everything that happened at night and couldn't really confirm it.

As for Alijach there were other reasons to give him a town read, the main one probably being ccantman's casual supposition that the scum were almost certainly two active players. The other was ccantman's attempt to defend Alijach, which the town should never have taken at face value. His posts when he made them also tended to be lengthy and discoursive, which I read as somewhat pro-town.

I hoped Rachyl had a strategy and was just waiting for scum to divulge their knownledge of something they couldn't possibly know as town in that situation (eg. slipping that they know who got attacked), and then reveal to the other townies who the target was maybe within the first 24 hours. But she just kinda sat on the information and did nothing with it, which was disappointing.

So in the end, my defense wasn't that bad, right? I mean, it's something logical to do, I should care specially in the last day to convice everyone else that i'm the townie and fury's the scum.

I was hoping that Rachyl revealed her strat after I made my defense, but it seems that she followed the scum train :'c.

If Alijach had remained AFK it would have been GG and Fury would have no reason to vote you. That night you could have killed Rachyl for a guaranteed win, as it would be 2v2 the next day.

It was funny watching him scramble to be the first to vote you when Alijach started trying to read through everything and decide on whom to vote. It should have raised some eyebrows that once Alijach arrived suddenly Fury is ready to hammer.

Yeah, I didn't notice that, I wanted to post ASAP so I can prove I'm not afk and they can blame me, like, 200%. Good logic there on the tie.

Well, very good job Fury. I thought that you could have not night-killed to incriminate Fury, but didn't think that would be the case. I should have re-read the other days before making a decision, but Alijach just was too "in the air" for my body to ignore him.

Thank you SJ for hosting as well!

Yeah, I think that costed us the game, but who knows. From failure we learn and from the mistakes we make in the road to our goals, hehe.

contradictions =/= scum

assumptions =/= scum

ill have another post on this later, me and sw are going to get food

Agreed, for the reason that I said before, scum gathers every piece of information in the game, except who's the sheriff and the doctor. They're most likely to re-write their post 20 times if necessary just to avoid slips, which, in the end, makes them slip some information.

Yeah, still, he played and tried. I feel bad for totally dismissing his posts and giving you the win though.

Now that I know that you'll try hard and good as scum I won't make the same mistake :P

That really hurted, not just me, but all townies in this game :/

If you no lynch then you just kill Rachyl and town is right back where it started, except worse

If Alijach hadn't come back I would've asked him if he would be okay with me replacing in for him. Alijach was very active (and apologetic) in skype chat with me, his mentor. I think he played quite well the day he was here, but MVP definitely goes to Fury imo.

All around I'm very impressed with everyone's play here. Mentoring was a fun experience and if we do so happen to have another newbie game I will happily do it again.
Thanks to @SuperJack for hosting it!

I was so blind for defending me, I forgot the no-lynch was possible in this game :/
I'm sorry for being afk :'c (get it?) really. If I wanted a replacement, I would've really like it if you took my place
I'll say it again, THANK YOU VERY MUCH for helping me to understand the game/answering my questions. I REALLY appreciate it

Gg scum.

I literally had a post written up questioning fury if he really would vote cantman. When I posted thread was locked.
I am not used to short days and should have actively hunted harder.


I have played on another site. Helz is the one who told me about FM. I tried to get into a game and while waiting started on another site.

I really think my early actions clouded people's judgement on me. Everyone was stuck on the actions and not outcomes.

I also didn't like the thought that was said that I was trying to kill town. That's not true and people shouldn't have feel into that thought. I was scum hunting and town happened to get in the way.

Again GG everyone.

Your early game was so TILTING FOR ME! For real. But in the end, helped a lot. I was really suspecting you, but while I was re-reading, it was an active citizen trying to find slips on scum's claims, which helped a lot, as I said.

Guys! I want to say It was an honour to play with you all. I really enjoyed it, and congratulations to @ccantman and @Fury for winning the game. You used your cards really well, your strat worked at the end, and your fast thinking helped a lot when you were supporting in something that could change in any moment (me being afk (?).

Congratulations for everyone, I really enjoyed this ride, thanks for everyone for being there for my first time, and one thousand thanks for @Stealthbomber16 , because he was always there ^^

[Alijach]

long post is long, but it's like, recap plus questions plus congrats, I would love if you all read it, (right, @Gyrlander ?) :3

PS: I think it's going to be a "Alijach's thing" to make really long posts with contradictions and lies, right @Fury ? LOL.

PS2: Totally not triggered, promise.

[Mesk514]

Yeah bishhh yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, I mentored a winner. Come see me for your prize boo ;)

[Fury]

long post is long, but it's like, recap plus questions plus congrats, I would love if you all read it, (right, @Gyrlander ?) :3

PS: I think it's going to be a "Alijach's thing" to make really long posts with contradictions and lies, right @Fury ? LOL.

PS2: Totally not triggered, promise.

I won't quote your earlier post since it's too long to quote, but yes your logic in the last day was better than I gave credit during the game. If I said that part though, then maybe they wouldn't have lynched you It wasn't chock-full of contradictions like I made it out to be, but there were definitely portions of it which were exploitable. It's very hard to word anything in such a way that it concisely conveys the point while being ironclad, so I wouldn't say it's an Alijach thing

[Fury]

Yeah bishhh yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, I mentored a winner. Come see me for your prize boo ;)

The memes were strong on skype ;)

[Mesk514]

The memes were strong on skype ;)

How was the jazz club ;)

[Stealthbomber16]

The memes were strong on skype ;)

Oh poor you.

How was the jazz club ;)

I would like to inquire about your opinion regarding the combination of improvisation, swing notes, and drag rhythms in musical form in regards to your personal opinion on topics relating certain matters to the musical which feature such known matters of swing notes, improvisation, call-and-response vocals, and other such similar techniques of music under the influence of previously commonly used musical patterns such as blues, folk, and tribal African and European musical combinations to create a joyful emotion that you experience as you listen to this particular style of work;
ya like jazz?

[ika]

I suppose that's true. I just look at it from the perspective whereby if he cannot reasonably argue that I am guilty, then I'm not guilty. Hindsight is 20/20, but he couldn't say that I was mafia in a concise way.

I agree with that to an extent, if one can not even try to explain it (and call my hypocritical for it if you want) then it does no good to even say anythign IMO. with me i do play on that gut/intuition side of things but i at least try to explain it

Hiya. Thanks for lyching me on the first day with a billion hours left, before I could even defend myself properly.

tbh, when you refused to reevaluate anything and sat in this mindset of both people must be scum it allows an easy way to discredit you and lead yourself into a lynch

If you no lynch then you just kill Rachyl and town is right back where it started, except worse.

no, hes better off not killing still and leaving the situation as is. he could of done that sooner but didn. scums always work better on evens then odds. not only that from everyone POV they have to figure out the one scum in 3 people as well as convince the other two towns. if he killed and one person voted right it narrows down to choosing between two people and the lone person choosing right

Agreed, for the reason that I said before, scum gathers every piece of information in the game, except who's the sheriff and the doctor. They're most likely to re-write their post 20 times if necessary just to avoid slips, which, in the end, makes them slip some information.

its more then just that IMO, its more on the fact that scums and towns can just as easily do it. if you take the game only on what is consistent and logical you will always lose on the sense that scums have better logic and more consistency to begin with. now thats not the case always but in a objective sense thats how it should play out

[Fury]

How was the jazz club ;)

I would like to inquire about your opinion regarding the combination of improvisation, swing notes, and drag rhythms in musical form in regards to your personal opinion on topics relating certain matters to the musical which feature such known matters of swing notes, improvisation, call-and-response vocals, and other such similar techniques of music under the influence of previously commonly used musical patterns such as blues, folk, and tribal African and European musical combinations to create a joyful emotion that you experience as you listen to this particular style of work;
ya like jazz?

First of all, it was a jazz festival. Second of all, what jazz festival? You decipher that one ;) So to answer your very well articulated post, I have to say: I liek jazz.

[Fury]

I agree with that to an extent, if one can not even try to explain it (and call my hypocritical for it if you want) then it does no good to even say anythign IMO. with me i do play on that gut/intuition side of things but i at least try to explain it

I'm very much so a gut player too. Then, I try to find evidence for or against my gut. Sometimes I can't find any, so maybe I'm a hypocrite too.

[Rachyl]

good game everyone! it was fun while it lasted

[ccantman]

Fury and Allijach had a mentor. Maybe I should of had a mentor in hindsight.

What did the mentor do doing the game?

[Fury]

Fury and Allijach had a mentor. Maybe I should of had a mentor in hindsight.

What did the mentor do doing the game?

Don't feel too bad. The purpose of a mentor in a beginner game is kinda just to help you out day 1 to make sure you know what you're doing and then leave you to figure things out. If you don't figure things out yourself, then you never improve ^_^

Different mentors help differently according to how much help you need, really. I bounced a few ideas off of her that game, especially during day 1. Later on, I kinda ignored her feedback when I'd bounce ideas off of her. Some of them turned out to be errors indeed like the decision to not hammer you immediately. So, they are what you make of them, I guess.

[Rachyl]

I think i need a mentor too the next time i play. im just not that good.....

[ika]

I'm very much so a gut player too. Then, I try to find evidence for or against my gut. Sometimes I can't find any, so maybe I'm a hypocrite too.

its not entirely hipocritcial if you are trying to find evidence. does it lead to weird cases where you just have to say "its a gut call" sure, but at least your trying to explain it.

[Varnic]

tbh, when you refused to reevaluate anything and sat in this mindset of both people must be scum it allows an easy way to discredit you and lead yourself into a lynch

Re-evaluate what? that was my whole point. What possible real leads can you find on the very first day? It was just simple logic of being more advantageous for mafia if there was a day one lynch.

[srceenplay]

There always has to be a first day.
You can not just not have one.
You let scum get away with secretly killing at night instead of in the open during the day.

[SilverWolf]

Re-evaluate what? that was my whole point. What possible real leads can you find on the very first day? It was just simple logic of being more advantageous for mafia if there was a day one lynch.

If you are arguing for a NL on D1, then the reason that is wrong is:

-zero chance of lynching mafia
-they kill a townie

Who benefits from that? Mafia, they get a kill and town gets nothing.

Now, a D1 lynch happens:

-If it's mafia, great, one down. Go look for associatives.

-If it's a townie, check the wagon to see if you can find suspicious votes, check who the person was suspecting, look at their reads, have an easier time determining a lynch for D2 that is actually correct, narrow down the pool of who could be mafia

[secondpassing]

GJ Scum team.