S-FM 193: Final Fantasy VII

[Saik0Shinigami]

If you are townie and you act like scum, then scum will keep you alive as cannon fodder because you're an easy target for the other townies when you blatantly act like scum.

let me clarify that you would become a scum shield in this scenario and that's just as bad as being scum to the rest of us townies.

[MattZed]

"Good point, I was partially acting scummy to avoid night kills too."
avoid night kills? How does doing this avoid a night kills? Scum already know who you are so how does any action you take avoid killing you? If you are townie and you act like scum, then scum will keep you alive as cannon fodder because you're an easy target for the other townies when you blatantly act like scum.

Question: Answer

Ask @DarknessB , it's somewhat the meta of our site for power roles to act a little scummy to avoid being nightkilled. (not that I'm encouraging this meta)

[Gyrlander]

Really going to sleep now. Please, don't lynch anybody until I can check what's happening. I'll return in 4 hours or so

[DarknessB]

Why do you think I read him as town? Your level of play is disappointing.

There's a big difference between acting a little scummy to avoid attention at night and getting down to an L-1 because you went way over the line.

[HeadShrinker]

Really going to sleep now. Please, don't lynch anybody until I can check what's happening. I'll return in 4 hours or so

This makes me want to vote for you. So hard.

[DarknessB]

@DarknessB , I have my ISO on PoD if you're ready to share.

I'm ready. Most of Banana's posts were going after Gyrlander, you, or SuperJack. I got a little lazy at the end, but I'll post it just so everyone can see her threads in order.

Spoiler : BananaCucho ISO :

#19

Fuck yes

-vote MattZed

This is in response to my RVS vote on MattZed and is likely poking at MattZed's tradition of being lynched early in games. Not much to see here.

#24

Mind explaining your "not random" vote?

This is in response to Gyrlander's cryptic comment about his RVS vote not being random. I assume Gyrlander was trolling with that comment because he never explained what it meant. Banana seemed justified in raising this as a red flag early.

#31

-vote Gyrlander

This is in response to Gyrlander voting pisskop after pisskop (jokingly) said he wasn't going to do anything. This doesn't catch me oddly given the red flag mentioned in #24 -- i.e. Gyrlander was presumably on her radar and was continuing to troll.

#40

My vote says it all.

Refuses to give a further explanation of why she voted Gyrlander. Either irritation with him, laziness, or null, but doesn't register much eitehr way.

#129

"Pre-flip associations are bad and those that use them are bad Mafia players" - Toadette

In response to MattZed's suggestion that pisskop and AIVION could be scum buddies. Banana / Toadette has been burned a lot by pre-flip associations which have turned out to be odd. Seems like a reasonable mention to me in terms of encouraging careful play.

#130

Omg what happened to the rest of my post

I quoted Grylander - his read list is bad because its too early to even have reads like that. Seems like trying yo appear as a try hard player

Quoted Darkness - both he and Grylander forgot me

Quoted something else but its gone now and I'm not in theood to find it again. Going to go do dishes and play hearthstone, peace

Loses her quote list, but calls out Grylander on the shoddy read list (I agree with this), the fact that both Grylander and I didn't notice that she wasn't included in his reads list, and something else she forgot about. Point 1 was contribution with the rest being a bit fluffy.


#219

DarknessB (1 [L-6]):
AIVION
HeadShrinker (3 [L-4]):
DarknessB, powerofdeath, MattZed
Saik0Shinigami (1 [L-6]):
Calix
Gyrlander (1 [L-6]):
BananaCucho
Calix (1 [L-6]):
Saik0Shinigami
GameFreak (1 [L-6]):
SuperJack
MattZed (1 [L-6]):
HeadShrinker
AIVION (2 [L-5]):
GameFreak, pisskop

Wtf

I'll be catching up at work today. Don't think I'll be too busy (have to stop myself from playing Hearthstone every free minute I got)

Provides copy of votes for VCA purposes and comments that our votes are all over the place. Mildly helpful reference post.

#222

lol I like you

I like this. I was about to question the town read which made no sense.

Annnnnd it wasn't a town play to see if POD accepted the buddying... It was a joke followed by actual buddying by Gyrlander. Gyr is scum.

#1 is a joke reference to a snarky post by HeadShrinker. #2 and #3 are commenting on Gyrlander pushing against POD (which she liked) and withdrawing the push / trying to bargain that the two not vote for each other. I agree that was extremely fishy of Gyrlander and this seems like a decent point to make.

#223

This feels town

This is survivalistic. Trying to push off pressure off of him onto a lurker

#1 is agreeing with GameFreak on Town not needing to say they are Town (seems reasonable). #2 is commenting on Gyrlander acting survivalistic in terms of potentially advocating for a lurker policy lynch and saying scummy actions doesn't mean he's scum. Both reads seem reasonable.

#224

Votes are too spread. Start stacking them on 2-3 people

Comments on the votes being spread out again -- fine.

#233

Neutral or Mafia, it's all non town and must die

Comments on it not mattering if we go after the Mafia or SK -- fine.

#239

Gyr is acting scummy, AIVION like a failed troll. I'd rather lynch Gyr, and if he flips neutral or Mafia, its a win.

Expresses preference to go after Gyrlander over AIVION. This matched other players' views at the time given Gyrlander was making scummy statements while AIVION was trolling / RPing for the most part.

#241

I quoted and said a bunch of stuff about you. Try harder to discredit me.

Pushes back against Gyrlander who was being very defensive in his post.

#254

Is there a reason you aren't voting anyone?

Calls out Gyrlander for not placing his vote anywhere.

#264

What the fuck LOL

Lynch this guy (Gyr)

Expresses concern ovre Gyrlander basically trying to bargain with AIVION to have them both remove their votes on each other. This was very scummy behavior by both Gyrlander and AIVION and was right to be called out.

#286

Not voting is being neutral, or "not stepping on toes" as piss called it. Scum tend to do this as they don't want to make enemies, while town does this to fish for reactions, test to see how other people respond (if they sheep the vote), etc, aka scum hunt.

Scum can no vote, avoid attention, and win from doing that strategy which is why it screams as scummy behavior

Explains why non-voting can be a scum-tell in terms of avoiding controversy or enemies. Reasonable to me.

#287

See this is scummy. Instead of hunting and trying to find scum, you're avoiding more possible enemies (possible OMGUS votes) by relaxing, and simply hoping the votes will dissapate. Not happening.

Negatively comments on Gyrlander's view that we have 29 hours let and can therefore wait. Makes sense in terms of not letting the clock run down.

#291

The only way you could town read him is if you knew he was town

Do you know something we don't SJ?

Expresses surprise at SJ's sudden and unexplained townread of Gyrlander.

#302

So your argument is that you ARE being survivalistic?

Comments on how weak Gyrlander's argument is -- i.e. saying he is trying to survive vs. establishing towncred.

#307

Pretty sure they're referring to Sephiroth

Which again is survivalistic as Gyr is hinting he reads you as Sephiroth... When you are voted by SJ in counter to him

Tries to provide clarity on SJ's comment, which was addressed at finding the SK (Sephiroth). On this point, interesting that SJ seemed more intent on finding the SK than the Mafia...

#312

So you admit to being scummy on purpose, meaning if you are town you're not an important role and we can get info from your lynch as to who had legit reasons for voting you and who didn't - but after purposely acting scummy and seeing you're about to be lynched you consider yourself important enough to save, decide to push on AIVION who is also being widely scum read by many not because of a scum read but to survive, meaning you consider your value in this game > his, and now you've suggested Darkness is Neutral scum because again you figure your value > Darkness

This screams scum, and if you ARE town I recommend you reevaluate just WHY this is very piss poor play and don't pull that shit again

Points out Gyrlander's flailing and immediately focusing on me after SJ troll voted me for using red in a comment.

#314

I'm announcing my full support of the "meta sucks ass" mentality. Votes based on meta (especially for new players learning and adjusting) are lazy and most of the time incorrect.

Comment on the limitations of meta in response to MattZed defense of AIVION for meta reasons.

#319

Lmao, of course the player who likes to try shitty things like play scummy on purpose (which LOSES games) will jump to Gyr's defense. Not surprised in the slightest.

Poor play does not indicate alignment, but that's not my argument. I feel he is scum flailing trying to justify his actions as now "intentional", but if he is town its piss poor play that he should learn from and stop doing. Don't use MZ as a role model for your games.

Pushes back against MattZed for defending AIVION and reminding the Town that poor play is not alignment indicative either way. Agree with this.

#322

Then when SJ says he wants to get rid of long swordy man, why do you think its Darkness?

You vote AIVION and say you'll unvote when he does

You say "Yay SJ, let's get rid of long swordy man! Who is it? Probably Darkness"

Now in this post you say "guess what! I was being town on purpose guise. For no reason. Wasn't strategy. I'm TOWN, let's focus on Banana"

Gyrlander (4 [L-3]):
AIVION, DarknessB, BananaCucho, pisskop

This is too easy with you. You're obvious and can be read like a book.

Pushes back Gyrlander again in terms of his tendency to latch onto other people's targets that are not himself.

[Saik0Shinigami]

Question: Answer

Ask @DarknessB , it's somewhat the meta of our site for power roles to act a little scummy to avoid being nightkilled. (not that I'm encouraging this meta)

I'm aware I answered my own question. I don't like that meta and hoped that I would get a different answer. Being slightly scummy can alert scum to your role's importance and makes it simple to target them.

[DarknessB]

Question: Answer

Ask @DarknessB , it's somewhat the meta of our site for power roles to act a little scummy to avoid being nightkilled. (not that I'm encouraging this meta)

Honestly, we'd be far better off if everyone contributed. The trade-off with this meta is having black holes of contribution and TPRs who get lynched / near-lynched because their Day 1 is so scummy seeming.

[MattZed]

ISO on powerofdeath:

43 - Joins Gyrlander's vote on pisskop
44 - corrects typo
140 - fluff
141 - fluff
143 - joins HeadShrinker train
146 - fluff
147 - accuses Saik of being mafia
148 - explains accusation: Saik mafia for "interaction and intentionally buddying with Headshrinker"
151 - taunts HeadShrinker
155 - accuses AIVION of being 3rd mafia
157 - fluff
160 - claims he didn't know HeadShrinker was the largest train when he joined
161 - fluff
165 - fluff
167 - fluff
168 - expresses confusion at a question of Headshrinkers
172 - thanks Gyrlander for townreading him
178 - points out GameFreak's readwall excludes him
392 - "tl;dr -vote Gyrlander"
394 - refuses to explain vote on Gyrlander

PoD has been entirely passive; only substantive suggestions he's made is that there's a scum team of HeadShrinker-Saik-AIVION, although it doesn't seem to be too serious. His only votes have been to sheep the largest train at the time, and he even admits that he doesn't have reasons for his votes. Due to adding nothing to discussion, his posts seems to be from a scum perspective. He doesn't even bother to prod people to further their reads, and he doesn't make any of his own. He's around enough to post, but he isn't putting in the bare minimum effort that most everyone else has.

Verdict: weak scumread

The scumread is weak because I'm not confident in distinguishing an apathetic town PoD from an apathetic scum PoD. However, it's still a scum read because he lobs votes onto the largest trains without justificiation and chooses to not ask questions or prod anyone, despite being around enough to do so.

[DarknessB]

Following up on my ISO, my verdict on Banana was Weak Town / Null, mostly due to a comparative lack of content, but good content when she did participate. She made a lot of good points on Gyrlander, whose play was pretty objectively scummy during the beginning and middle of today. She pushed several other players too -- mostly, MattZed and SuperJack at various points. There simply wasn't enough content for me to draw too many conclusions beyond that however. Her substantive points made sense and sounded like they were coming from the perspective of a Town member.

[BananaCucho]

I am going to be putting my son to sleep here shortly, after I read him from Harry Potter I'll catch up with this game, but I wanna to address this since I was mentioned (thank you notifications)

I'm going to try an angle we haven't been doing.

-vote BananaCucho

Someone was too eager to string him up for looking scummy. I've ISO'd about 40% of his posts so far, and he's thoroughly trying to be helpful, although perhaps not knowing the best way to do that. The extent to which he looked scummy was vastly overstated. Banana was going for the low hanging fruit, and I'd like to hear why.
@BananaCucho

You are so dense. Grylander claimed earlier that he was trying to look scummy on purpose and purposely trying to get votes. If he's being truthful it reminds me exactly of your play in Sen's sandwich/matrix game, where you tried to look scummy in purpose, and I voted you. And then yoi scum read me for scum reading purposely scummy play instead of recognizing my scum read was spot on as that was your motive, because, you know, fuck logic.

I'm not voting low hanging fruit, I'm voting scummy behavior. If it looks scummy, I call it out as so.

The difference here is that I don't believe Gyrlander was purposely trying to attract attention and votes, but that's his excuse

But really idk why I bother trying with you MZ. You don't want to understand why as town acting scummy on purpose is awful, shitty play, hence why you whined like a baby when I pointed it out last time. You lost that game and now we have a player who has claimed that's what he was doing and you're saying its not scummy at all, when he claims he was trying to appear scummy (is actually being scummy)

I'm going to give you some advice. Get on my level, or get behind me and out of the way with that sorry analysis you're trying to fake. Fake it or make it isn't good enough. Get a clue.

[DarknessB]

Grylander claimed earlier that he was trying to look scummy on purpose and purposely trying to get votes. If he's being truthful it reminds me exactly of your play in Sen's sandwich/matrix game, where you tried to look scummy in purpose, and I voted you. And then yoi scum read me for scum reading purposely scummy play instead of recognizing my scum read was spot on as that was your motive, because, you know, fuck logic.

I'm not voting low hanging fruit, I'm voting scummy behavior. If it looks scummy, I call it out as so.

The difference here is that I don't believe Gyrlander was purposely trying to attract attention and votes, but that's his excuse

I completely agree with this excerpt of Banana's post. I don't think anyone tries to act scummy on purpose and get votes -- given there is no Jester in this setup. My guess is that Gyrlander was having fun given the Final Fantasy theme (much like AIVION), let it get away from him, made some careless posts, and then the train built up against him. SuperJack and MattZed interpreting his behavior in the most favorable way (i.e. it was planned scumminess to avoid a night kill!) seems beyond reasonable logic to me as well.

It would take an extremely seasoned player to be able to balance that type of gambit well and Gyrlander is very new to Forum Mafia. I think we were all correct for voting him based on his behavior which was very problematic: A weak read list without explanations, Corporation cheerleading RP replete with pompoms and all, attempting to bargain with multiple players to get them to drop their votes on him in exchange for him doing the same, focusing on game terminology as opposed to scumhunting, and then flailing when pushed later on today. It really wasn't good and to write it all off as some sort of a deliberate gambit is foolish to me.

That having been said, he's claimed and we need to move on, but the emphasis should be on scummy behavior. not low-hanging fruit, meta, or anything else.

[Excalibur]

Hi there everyone, sorry i'm late. There has been quite a lot said so far.

[BananaCucho]

I completely agree with this excerpt of Banana's post. I don't think anyone tries to act scummy on purpose and get votes -- given there is no Jester in this setup. My guess is that Gyrlander was having fun given the Final Fantasy theme (much like AIVION), let it get away from him, made some careless posts, and then the train built up against him. SuperJack and MattZed interpreting his behavior in the most favorable way (i.e. it was planned scumminess to avoid a night kill!) seems beyond reasonable logic to me as well.

It would take an extremely seasoned player to be able to balance that type of gambit well and Gyrlander is very new to Forum Mafia. I think we were all correct for voting him based on his behavior which was very problematic: A weak read list without explanations, Corporation cheerleading RP replete with pompoms and all, attempting to bargain with multiple players to get them to drop their votes on him in exchange for him doing the same, focusing on game terminology as opposed to scumhunting, and then flailing when pushed later on today. It really wasn't good and to write it all off as some sort of a deliberate gambit is foolish to me.

That having been said, he's claimed and we need to move on, but the emphasis should be on scummy behavior. not low-hanging fruit, meta, or anything else.

Where the fuck is your vote

[Saik0Shinigami]

Hi there everyone, sorry i'm late. There has been quite a lot said so far.

HOLY SHIT, YOU EXIST!

[BananaCucho]

Darkness being neutral as always

OK seriously I have to put a kid in bed

[DarknessB]

Hi there everyone, sorry i'm late. There has been quite a lot said so far.

Oh boy -- look what the cat dragged in... Please try to catch up quickly and let us know what you're thinking in terms of reads and potential lynch targets. We don't have a ton of time left for today given we're approaching overnight U.S. time, which will eat up most of the rest of this game day.

[DarknessB]

Where the fuck is your vote

When you get back and catch up, you'll understand. It was on Gyrlander for most of the day and who was at L-1. He just softclaimed Mayor so I unvoted to prevent an early hammer. This all happened within the last hour or so.

[MattZed]

I completely agree with this excerpt of Banana's post. I don't think anyone tries to act scummy on purpose and get votes -- given there is no Jester in this setup. My guess is that Gyrlander was having fun given the Final Fantasy theme (much like AIVION), let it get away from him, made some careless posts, and then the train built up against him. SuperJack and MattZed interpreting his behavior in the most favorable way (i.e. it was planned scumminess to avoid a night kill!) seems beyond reasonable logic to me as well.

It would take an extremely seasoned player to be able to balance that type of gambit well and Gyrlander is very new to Forum Mafia. I think we were all correct for voting him based on his behavior which was very problematic: A weak read list without explanations, Corporation cheerleading RP replete with pompoms and all, attempting to bargain with multiple players to get them to drop their votes on him in exchange for him doing the same, focusing on game terminology as opposed to scumhunting, and then flailing when pushed later on today. It really wasn't good and to write it all off as some sort of a deliberate gambit is foolish to me.

That having been said, he's claimed and we need to move on, but the emphasis should be on scummy behavior. not low-hanging fruit, meta, or anything else.

Darkness, do me a favor. Remember that ISO you did on Banana? Start doing one on Gyrlander, too. You can stop when you hit the point of "oh shit he's doing a lot of productive and town-motivated stuff, why is everyone scumreading him?" You don't need to take a "too scummy to be town" or "acting scummy to live" mindset on Gyrlander. He actually shows town motivation through pro-town actions, especially at the start of the day. Yes, he gets a little jovial later in the day but that fact that Gyrlander has made sincere contributions to today's discussion by prodding players, posting reads, and encouraging others to engage in RVS has been severely overlooked.

[DarknessB]

On that note, I'm starting the POD train given we need a new viable lynch candidate and his behavior has been very questionable today. I'd say it's either him or AIVION IMO.

-vote powerofdeath

[DarknessB]

Darkness, do me a favor. Remember that ISO you did on Banana? Start doing one on Gyrlander, too. You can stop when you hit the point of "oh shit he's doing a lot of productive and town-motivated stuff, why is everyone scumreading him?" You don't need to take a "too scummy to be town" or "acting scummy to live" mindset on Gyrlander. He actually shows town motivation through pro-town actions, especially at the start of the day. Yes, he gets a little jovial later in the day but that fact that Gyrlander has made sincere contributions to today's discussion by prodding players, posting reads, and encouraging others to engage in RVS has been severely overlooked.

It's going to take a lot longer to make an ISO for Gyrlander -- might be a tomorrow item honestly given I am on the East Coast. I'm not sure I agree with your assessment that he has been pro-town in any objective way though. In fact, I think you are applying some major hindsight bias given what he just soft claimed.

[MattZed]

It's going to take a lot longer to make an ISO for Gyrlander -- might be a tomorrow item honestly given I am on the East Coast. I'm not sure I agree with your assessment that he has been pro-town in any objective way though. In fact, I think you are applying some major hindsight bias given what he just soft claimed.

I started the ISO before he softclaimed. Just get through his first 15-20 posts. I'm serious. He's been a contributing member of this game, and that's been overlooked in favor of the "omg he's so scummy!" narrative.

[DarknessB]

I started the ISO before he softclaimed. Just get through his first 15-20 posts. I'm serious. He's been a contributing member of this game, and that's been overlooked in favor of the "omg he's so scummy!" narrative.

I looked through the first calendar day, which roughly corresponded to posts #1-#200 and honestly, I disagree strongly with your assessment of Gyrlander. Here's my ISO:

Spoiler : Gyrlander Posts (Between #1-#200) :

#5

Hello guys! This game promises fun!

-vote AIVION

RVS post -- not much to see here.

#7

I actually have class in 8 hours, but you know what? Fuck the education system.

Fluff post.

#11

EM..... I PREFER ANSWERING THIS:

1 +1 is 2

2 +2 IS 22

Seems legit, doesn't it? :P

Fluff post.

#12

You should random vote someone. My vote was not random at all but you should. If you sit and don't do anything I will not show mercy.

Encourages pisskop to vote, which is fine. Makes some obscure reference to his vote not being random, which is scummy.

#14

Your thinking process ---> Anyway, I think we'll have to wait for Calix to get this going.

First part is fluff; second part sets the tone for non-contribution -- i.e. that we need Calix to get anything done. Not to mention that we have no idea of Calix's alignment.

#17

Like I could substract any SUBSTANTIAL INFORMATION TO PRESSURE SOMEONE FROM ANY POST THAT HAS BEEN POSTED. WELL, I CAN SAY THAT GAMEFREAK DOESN'T REALLY BELIEVE THIS GAME IS THAT IMPORTANT BECAUSE HE PREFERS SLEEPING, SO I GUESS HE IS A SHINRA EMPLOYEE.

THE CORPORATION THAT WILL WIN THIS GAME!! GET THAT AVALANCHE

Fluff post with Corporation cheerleading RP.

#25

I'm not allowing you to.

-vote pisskop

Also, setup speculation is to say what do you think who is what?

Votes pisskop in response to his trolly post about not contributing. Awkwardly asks about setup speculation instead of providing any insights himself.

#29

Well, it depends of what you consider random. If you consider anything not related to scum-reading random, it is. If you consider him being the first person to post and that I obviously have to vote my lover first post not random, then it isn't.

Weirdly explains why he said his vote wasn't random -- doesn't really add much honestly, and is more about semantics.

It didn't took that much to get my first vote. I'm proud of myself.

#33
You quoted it but didn't mention anything, what did you try to say?

Is puzzled because BananaCucho votes him for his weird "my vote wasn't random" comment.

#42

I guess it is part of the RVS then.

Assumes Banana's vote is because of RVS.

#66

Going to sleep. My reads:

-DarknessB: Null Scum Lean

-Calix: Null

-AIVION: Shinra Corporation

-Saik0: Shinra Corporation

-piskoof: Null, Shinra leaning

-HeadShrinker: Null, Scum Lean

-GameFreak: Confusing

-Gyrlander: Sephiroth ----> Joking

These are just first impressions, not going to write reasons LOL

The infamous read list sans any explanations. This one has been explained to death as being unhelpful / scummy.

#69

I like to get into the game. Also, there are more personal reasons.

Explains why he is using the game terminology vs. quicker to understand terminology. This is a distraction at best.

#73

Sorry, I forgot about those two. My fault. Althought both of them have just written 2 posts so...

SaperJuck: Shinra Leaning

POD: Null (Very very slightly scum leaning)

More reads without any explanations, which aren't helpful.

#84

It shows what are players showing me with their interactions. They can ask me, agree with me, read both as town and make a stable Shinra Corporation. Then, we proceed to kill the Avalanche.

Vaguely suggests forming a town bloc and the idea that players who agree with him would be considered Town in his eyes. This post screams scummy.

#91

That list was made just with what I had fresh in my mind. I can't do any scumhunting as I'm on the bed right now. And I think I'm horrible at it xd Anyway, see you in 8/9 hours.

Admits that he winged his read list and that he wasn't able to do a better job given the time.

#171

I do townread him. If possible, don't lynch him please

Announces that he townreads POD for some reason (POD had barely posted to that point) and that he shouldn't be lynched. Odd given barely any votes had accumulated.

#173

LOL I was kidding eat rope

-vote powerofdeath

Flips on POD saying that his previous post was a joke.

#197

GameFreak, the post that you said was trolley and retarde was for showing my interest of the Corporation winning the game. Also, I said I wouldn't substract any info because there were only 2 pages and most of them were trolly owo. And sorry for voting you, pod.

-unvote

More shameless Corporation cheerleading and abruptly unvotes POD for some reason, apologizing to him as well -- weird post and could have concluded that he was attempting to buddy POD.

#199

I'm addopting that attitude this game. First games I was shy, now I will show that I'm actually quite emotive. And appart from that, I wanted to tell you that I'm town

Announces that he is Town and that he his going to be loud this game -- fluff at best, scummy at worst.

[BananaCucho]

I was acting scummy to GET VOTED and have to defend myself. And I know it may not be a wise idea xD

See this is what I'm talking about. "He's acting scummy? Banana is reading scummy behavior as scummy? That's fucking scummy!" - MattZed

If you're town, then you have the unique perspective of not being distracted by how scummy you look. Give a substantiated read on someone who isn't AIVION.

I thought you said he didn't look scummy MattZed? That he was just "low hanging fruit"? Why is your opinion different now? This is wildly inconsistent

Gyrlander, that's good! Do pisskop next, please. You haven't had much interaction with him beside the vote.

This is code for " I didn't read your long post where you acknowledged that you were acting scummy, and gave town points to banana for scum reading your scummy behavior "

Just read the softclaim and follow up on page 9. Huge FOS on MattZed and SuoerJack.. When you have a player who is intentionally being scummy being town read as "obvious" town, it feels like white knighting.

-unvote

Still reading

[MattZed]

I thought you said he didn't look scummy MattZed? That he was just "low hanging fruit"? Why is your opinion different now? This is wildly inconsistent

Are you willfully distorting the order of my posts, or are you just bad at quoting mining? I told him he was looking scummy before I did an ISO on him and pointed out he was low-hanging fruit. Note that you're quoting post 373. It was post 429, after I had started an ISO on him, that I characterized him as low-hanging fruit. To remind you of the context where I said he was low-hanging:

I'm going to try an angle we haven't been doing.

-vote BananaCucho

Someone was too eager to string him up for looking scummy. I've ISO'd about 40% of his posts so far, and he's thoroughly trying to be helpful, although perhaps not knowing the best way to do that. The extent to which he looked scummy was vastly overstated. Banana was going for the low hanging fruit, and I'd like to hear why.

[BananaCucho]

Question: Answer

Ask @DarknessB , it's somewhat the meta of our site for power roles to act a little scummy to avoid being nightkilled. (not that I'm encouraging this meta)

Not the reasoning Gyr provided earlier. He was doing it for fun. Try reading comprehension next time.

Anyway, I'm good at taking disbanded trains and turning them around and lynching scum.

-vote MattZed

There's no way you read Gyrlander as town this game before that claim unless you know he's town (or at least know he's not your faction). MZ is white knighting Gyrlander. He saw that Gyrlander was going to inevitably be lynched for his overwhelmingly scummy behavior and sought out some towncred after the flip for fighting it.

[powerofdeath]

On that note, I'm starting the POD train given we need a new viable lynch candidate and his behavior has been very questionable today. I'd say it's either him or AIVION IMO.

-vote powerofdeath

I claim town, dont lynch me.

[MattZed]

Not the reasoning Gyr provided earlier. He was doing it for fun. Try reading comprehension next time.

Anyway, I'm good at taking disbanded trains and turning them around and lynching scum.

-vote MattZed

There's no way you read Gyrlander as town this game before that claim unless you know he's town (or at least know he's not your faction). MZ is white knighting Gyrlander. He saw that Gyrlander was going to inevitably be lynched for his overwhelmingly scummy behavior and sought out some towncred after the flip for fighting it.

lol at the misreps.

I wasn't pushing Gyrlander as town until after he claimed. If you were actually reading my posts, you'd have seen I was against the train because it was bad, not because I had Gyrlander as a hard townread. (you'll notice even PoD was on that train and even admitted to not reading)

This isn't the first time you've distorted my record. (see above) You're not trying to actually read me and discover if I'm scum or not; you're just trying to pick quotes that you think best fit your narrative, regardless of contradictions that may appear in that narrative. If you were town, you'd have spent more effort into looking at my posts and less into trying to paint me as scum. You've been trying to discredit me for a while now, and it's time for you to go.

-vote BananaCucho

[powerofdeath]

Youre the final member of the mafia.

Lynch in order: Head, Shini, and AIVION, then we look for neutral killer.

I need people to agree to this plan.

[powerofdeath]

I am confident mafia will kill me tonight because they will fear kill me on how accurate I am. If I die tonight, lynch those 3.

[MattZed]

I need people to agree to this plan.

What you need to do is read beyond post 200, LOL. That lynch order makes no sense in the context of what's happened since.

[powerofdeath]

ISO on powerofdeath:

43 - Joins Gyrlander's vote on pisskop
44 - corrects typo
140 - fluff
141 - fluff
143 - joins HeadShrinker train
146 - fluff
147 - accuses Saik of being mafia
148 - explains accusation: Saik mafia for "interaction and intentionally buddying with Headshrinker"
151 - taunts HeadShrinker
155 - accuses AIVION of being 3rd mafia
157 - fluff
160 - claims he didn't know HeadShrinker was the largest train when he joined
161 - fluff
165 - fluff
167 - fluff
168 - expresses confusion at a question of Headshrinkers
172 - thanks Gyrlander for townreading him
178 - points out GameFreak's readwall excludes him
392 - "tl;dr -vote Gyrlander"
394 - refuses to explain vote on Gyrlander

PoD has been entirely passive; only substantive suggestions he's made is that there's a scum team of HeadShrinker-Saik-AIVION, although it doesn't seem to be too serious. His only votes have been to sheep the largest train at the time, and he even admits that he doesn't have reasons for his votes. Due to adding nothing to discussion, his posts seems to be from a scum perspective. He doesn't even bother to prod people to further their reads, and he doesn't make any of his own. He's around enough to post, but he isn't putting in the bare minimum effort that most everyone else has.

Verdict: weak scumread

The scumread is weak because I'm not confident in distinguishing an apathetic town PoD from an apathetic scum PoD. However, it's still a scum read because he lobs votes onto the largest trains without justificiation and chooses to not ask questions or prod anyone, despite being around enough to do so.

Your read on me is weak. I should be your #1 town read.

[powerofdeath]

What you need to do is read beyond post 200, LOL. That lynch order makes no sense in the context of what's happened since.

I skimmed through, then totally forgot what I just read.

[powerofdeath]

What you need to do is read beyond post 200, LOL. That lynch order makes no sense in the context of what's happened since.

This feel too scummy, yet you have no interaction with the other 3. I am fairly sure you are the neutral killer.

[powerofdeath]

Everyone else is town. No questions asked.

[MattZed]

@powerofdeath Spoiler: You're voting someone who claimed a TPR. What role did they claim?

[BananaCucho]

lol at the misreps.

I wasn't pushing Gyrlander as town until after he claimed. If you were actually reading my posts, you'd have seen I was against the train because it was bad, not because I had Gyrlander as a hard townread. (you'll notice even PoD was on that train and even admitted to not reading)

This isn't the first time you've distorted my record. (see above) You're not trying to actually read me and discover if I'm scum or not; you're just trying to pick quotes that you think best fit your narrative, regardless of contradictions that may appear in that narrative. If you were town, you'd have spent more effort into looking at my posts and less into trying to paint me as scum. You've been trying to discredit me for a while now, and it's time for you to go.

-vote BananaCucho

The reasons weren't bad. He was scummy as fuck. He knew it was scummy as fuck and even admitted he dig that hole himself.

But you didn't see it that way, you didn't see the blatant scumminess in front of you - why? You didn't say "I have a hard town read on him" but yoh implied it by defending him and fighting that train, and now you're going after people who were scum reading him legitimately. White knighting.

[powerofdeath]

@powerofdeath Spoiler: You're voting someone who claimed a TPR. What role did they claim?

I have no idea.

[MattZed]

The reasons weren't bad. He was scummy as fuck. He knew it was scummy as fuck and even admitted he dig that hole himself.

But you didn't see it that way, you didn't see the blatant scumminess in front of you - why? You didn't say "I have a hard town read on him" but yoh implied it by defending him and fighting that train, and now you're going after people who were scum reading him legitimately. White knighting.

Fighting a train doesn't mean you have to townread the person on it and you know that.

You have been voting him literally since RVS. You explicitly called him scum in your 9th post, when the only things you had even flagged him for at that point were posting an early readlist and townreading PoD. After that, you just continued to tunnel your RVS vote. You've ignored other hints just to paint the impression that's he's a flailing scum.

For example, let's look at where you started calling him survivalistic:

you said you have 70+ games under your belt but you can't make up your mind on somebody like Gyr because you don't know his meta ?
I can't remember him either but he either puts in more effort or will be lynched. Thats the only meta that matters.
And the same goes for you.

GameFreak, would you rather lynch me or a player who is lurking? Also, if my town if a scumslip it's either that I Am scummy by nature or that you just think too much

This is survivalistic. Trying to push off pressure off of him onto a lurker

He wasn't trying to push pressure onto anyone. Notice he wasn't calling out names or pushing for anyone's lynch.

He was responding to GameFreak's accusation that he wasn't putting in effort by pointing out there were others who put in even less effort, and so by GameFreak's own pro-effort logic he shouldn't make Gyrlander his top target. He defended himself without derailing conversation onto a lurker who couldn't defend themselves.

[MattZed]

@Shifty , has anyone revealed themselves as Rufus?

[Shifty]

Gyrlander has revealed as Rufus Shinra. He has been granted full immunity for the remainder of the day and his vote now counts for 2.

Previous votecount:
Gyrlander (3 [L-4]):
AIVION, Saik0Shinigami, powerofdeath

powerofdeath (1 [L-6]):
DarknessB

AIVION (1 [L-6]):
Calix

MattZed (2 [L-5]):
BananaCucho, HeadShrinker

DarknessB (1 [L-6]):
SuperJack

BananaCucho (1 [L-6]):
MattZed

SuperJack (1 [L-6]):
GameFreak

Gyrlander is the mayor with 2 votes.

Votes have been reset.

[Gyrlander]

I'm back. Seems like MZ defending me isn't approved by Banana. I have to say I don't think he's scum. And don't say that it is because he didn't vote me and now I love him. No.

[Saik0Shinigami]

Congrats Gyrlander. Hope there's no hard feelings and that my explanation at the very least made sense.

-vote Powerofdeath

Similar reasoning as Gyrlander before. Is next in my chain of unusefulness for nightkill. Doesn't help that they've chosen to vote me for no particular reason other than posting lulz. Also does help that they offer anything that isn't garbage posts.

Still waiting on something from Excalibur. We know he's been here, but he hasn't done literally anything. I'm curious on DarknessB thoughts on that. Still worth not auto-lynching him?

[Gyrlander]

Excalibur comes, says he's here and then leaves again ..? Short But intense. Also, playing Hearthstone isn't an excuse for voting me and refusing to explain the vote. And I totally agree with MZ that your way of being has been slightly scum sided, as I mentioned in that shitty reads list you all remember. But I'm not sure about saik0 neither. I don't like that "night usefulness". I think you should vote bases on scum vibes, because if you die tonight you may not be able to use your " night kills leads" to find scum. And we can lose majority too soon, aa someone stated at the beggining of the game. I'll leave my vote on you while I'm taking this Language exam

-vote Saik0Shinigami

[pisskop]

mayor is just doublevoter ya?

[Gyrlander]

mayor is just doublevoter ya?

Yep

[pisskop]

meh

Not the reasoning Gyr provided earlier. He was doing it for fun. Try reading comprehension next time.

Anyway, I'm good at taking disbanded trains and turning them around and lynching scum.

-vote MattZed

There's no way you read Gyrlander as town this game before that claim unless you know he's town (or at least know he's not your faction). MZ is white knighting Gyrlander. He saw that Gyrlander was going to inevitably be lynched for his overwhelmingly scummy behavior and sought out some towncred after the flip for fighting it.

meh. this is meh

Hi there everyone, sorry i'm late. There has been quite a lot said so far.

-vote excalibur

Tell me a story


while the suspicionon pod isnt unjustified, its kind of low hanging.

[Calix]

What the literal fuck did I wake up to?

Why did the only confirmed role in the game, where we only have 4 TPRs, draw this much attention to themselves before revealing, thus fucking up the votes, detracting from finding the scum and revealing themselves to the Serial Killer? Piss poor play.

I'm going to be out for most of the day and I've only skimmed through the thread. Only things that stood out to me was that one post pushing Gyrlander even after he claimed Mayor (forget who said it), Banana/ MattZed re-enacting NotMatrix6 for some fucking reason and no analysis of the voters on the trains.

POD's behaviour just seems like he's busy/ doesn't give a fuck/ wants to get a lynch off. Only the last part is alignment-indicative and it's a weak point after the discussion we've had.

[Calix]

I know pisskop wouldn't know about Excalibur's behaviour so this isn't a scum tell for me, but I find it amusing how he calls POD low-hanging fruit...before voting for Excalibur

[pisskop]

yea i wonder wat a single vote withouy reasoning will do :roll: