New game for new players before big FM.

[SuperJack]

I was wondering. If it would be a good idea to do this:

Gather a group of new players from SC2. [Or players that have played one or two games and shown potential]
I have some idea who I have on mind to bring in.
I've been trying to do this one by one. Finding new talent and hydraing with them like AIVION and PLZLEAVEDUCK. But it's quite slow on my own.

And with this big game due I don't think inviting players to it without and FM tastes would be a bad idea.

So If I gather enough new people. Would it be possible to push a game through. One that's quite Vanilla. Hosted by an experienced host.
And have some of the more experienced players hydra with them to guide them/be there if they decided FM isn't for them and back out.

That way. The players that like it can join us in the big FM.

[Stealthbomber16]

mm

I've tried to recruit players to this site but they never seem to make it. I'll happily hydra with someone in an M-FM but FMs aren't really for me. There is a point where its too big.

[SuperJack]

I find that getting to know the people rather than just telling them about fm is more important. After all I think the majority of people are here for the people.

[Klingoncelt]

mm

I've tried to recruit players to this site but they never seem to make it. I'll happily hydra with someone in an M-FM but FMs aren't really for me. There is a point where its too big.

There's no such thing as too big.

[DarknessB]

Much better idea -- let's require one player from each Mafia clan / group to be selected to play, and then have all of the so-called "tributes" compete in a game. The winner(s) get showered with perks and can play in FMs; the losers sadly would get permabanned. We can also make this a yearly occurrence so people will remember the horrible events which required instituting these games in the first place.

[SuperJack]

Much better idea -- let's require one player from each Mafia clan / group to be selected to play, and then have all of the so-called "tributes" compete in a game. The winner(s) get showered with perks and can play in FMs; the losers sadly would get permabanned. We can also make this a yearly occurrence so people will remember the horrible events which required instituting these games in the first place.

Yeh thanks for the serious comment.

[SuperJack]

Without blessing from the FM staff I'm unable to start. Because it would require jumping the queue. And definitely needs Crypt to work since he would be hosting the FM. And I don't want to upset any timing.

[SuperJack]

@Cryptonic @Orpz @MattZed

[Cryptonic]

Do you have the players ready? What is the setup?

[SuperJack]

Do you have the players ready? What is the setup?

No because I wanted to ok it with the FM staff before I started off. Would take me a couple of days to find the players. And I'm sure there are some Vanilla games waiting in the queue atm with an experienced host

For example:
S-FM-Simple-Biscut
Return-To-Normalcy-Mini

[Cryptonic]

I don't think any host would want to open their setup to all new players, though.

[BananaCucho]

There's no such thing as too big.

You got that right!!

[SuperJack]

I don't think any host would want to open their setup to all new players, though.

The idea is that the players have mentors that have a lot of FM experience.


But if no one wishes to have a game full of new players. I'll just steal someone used vanilla setup thats already been played and reviewed. and use that.

[Cryptonic]

I'm OK with this, if the setup has at least 40% Citizens lol.
I doubt there is enough time to gather players and host an entire game before the main FM, so no need to rush. Would be good if you can get a new-ish player in every slot.

[SuperJack]

I'm OK with this, if the setup has at least 40% Citizens lol.
I doubt there is enough time to gather players and host an entire game before the main FM, so no need to rush. Would be good if you can get a new-ish player in every slot.

You underestimate me. Well I hope you do anyway. And yes the Setup -is- going to be Citizen heavy.

[Cryptonic]

And try to pick a setup with an open rolelist. It moves the strategy in game from role list analysis to text.

[SuperJack]

And try to pick a setup with an open rolelist. It moves the strategy in game from role list analysis to text.

Any previous setup you recommend? Before I start to dig through it. I'm starting making the list of potential invites.

[Cryptonic]

I personal fave of mine is

Mafioso
Consort
Sheriff
Doctor
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen

And Consort can kill & block if alone.

[Gyrlander]

I personal fave of mine is

Mafioso
Consort
Sheriff
Doctor
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen

And Consort can kill & block if alone.

I would add a Mayor. I love mayors.

[DarknessB]

I would add a Mayor. I love mayors.

The idea is for a newcomer-friendly setup designed to teach players how to scumhunt, not TPR mania like the mod. In fact, the precise point is to acclaimate mod players to the FM style of play with mostly Citizens. Throwing in a Mayor is completely contrary to that goal.

[Gyrlander]

The idea is for a newcomer-friendly setup designed to teach players how to scumhunt, not TPR mania like the mod. In fact, the precise point is to acclaimate mod players to the FM style of play with mostly Citizens. Throwing in a Mayor is completely contrary to that goal.

I do agree with you, but maybe new players don't like that, vet bored and leave too fast.

[secondpassing]

The idea is for a newcomer-friendly setup designed to teach players how to scumhunt, not TPR mania like the mod. In fact, the precise point is to acclaimate mod players to the FM style of play with mostly Citizens. Throwing in a Mayor is completely contrary to that goal.

Then it may be even better to replace Consort with Evil Sheriff or whatever people call a mafia aligned sheriff. That way, the players can also learn to deceive as scum at the same time.

(Also prevents scum from misusing fake-claimed roleblock)

[BananaCucho]

I do agree with you, but maybe new players don't like that, vet bored and leave too fast.

Then FM isn't for them. We need more analytical players, and analytical games help produce analytical players.

[Cryptonic]

Then it may be even better to replace Consort with Evil Sheriff or whatever people call a mafia aligned sheriff. That way, the players can also learn to deceive as scum at the same time.

(Also prevents scum from misusing fake-claimed roleblock)

The setup I posted has a near 50/50 win rate, so it's probably best that players have a balanced analytical game to go off of. You don't want to have a game being unbalanced and that is what causes people to have an unenjoyable time.

Any other game with similar stats would be good too.

[Firebringer]

Then FM isn't for them. We need more analytical players, and analytical games help produce analytical players.

We need just more players.

[DarknessB]

Then FM isn't for them. We need more analytical players, and analytical games help produce analytical players.

I agree with Banana and it's not an elitist thing, but a reality about how FM works the best. As a site, we have tried a large number of more exciting, TPR-heavy setups in recent months and they have honestly not worked out very well. They either result in a mass claim with game mostly solved by Day 2-3 or are heavily determined by night actions, which are often far more a matter of luck than skill. Playing a game with crazy swing tends to be very unfulfilling if you get screwed over by RNG night actions as opposed to anything you did during the day.

The primary skill involved in FM is reading / analyzing players. It may not be as exciting as having a powerful role with a cool night action, but daytime discussion is the heart of the game, as opposed to nighttime actions in the mod. TPR-heavy games are a bit like junk food -- they're fun, but you don't tend to improve your skills nearly as much as you would with fundamental scumhunting type games. There is a place for both games, but it is important for newcomers to learn how to play FM the right way vs. waiting for night feedback and being overly dependent on it to function.

[DarknessB]

Then it may be even better to replace Consort with Evil Sheriff or whatever people call a mafia aligned sheriff. That way, the players can also learn to deceive as scum at the same time.

(Also prevents scum from misusing fake-claimed roleblock)

Consigliere -- you should know this given you play the mod, lol. In vanilla games, Consigs are not particularly useful for the Mafia. Just for finding TPRs to kill really because as soon as a Consig gets a Townie mislynched, he is going down himself. There was no chance of a Framer or Bus Driver messing up the lead. Consort is much more useful in terms of finding and roleblocking TPRs. I pushed MZ to change the Mafia Consig to a Consort in Illuminati for this very reason.

[Firebringer]

I agree with Banana and it's not an elitist thing, but a reality about how FM works the best. As a site, we have tried a large number of more exciting, TPR-heavy setups in recent months and they have honestly not worked out very well. They either result in a mass claim with game mostly solved by Day 2-3 or are heavily determined by night actions, which are often far more a matter of luck than skill. Playing a game with crazy swing tends to be very unfulfilling if you get screwed over by RNG night actions as opposed to anything you did during the day.

The primary skill involved in FM is reading / analyzing players. It may not be as exciting as having a powerful role with a cool night action, but daytime discussion is the heart of the game, as opposed to nighttime actions in the mod. TPR-heavy games are a bit like junk food -- they're fun, but you don't tend to improve your skills nearly as much as you would with fundamental scumhunting type games. There is a place for both games, but it is important for newcomers to learn how to play FM the right way vs. waiting for night feedback and being overly dependent on it to function.

Its primarily a elitist thing. No playstyle is perfect, no playstyle is best.
Theres a gravitation for certain playstyles by many people.

The only playstyle I don't approve of is Lurking.
As long as you can get people who won't lurk and can post not just spammy messages. Games will go fine.

Why do we need just X playstyle?

[BananaCucho]

lel, I'm "elitist scum" for suggesting that players who don't enjoy analytical play won't stick around to play lots of FM games. If something isn't enjoyable for you, you don't do it, plain and simple. For example, if you're going to rage quit a game instead of seeing it through, don't sign and waste everyone else's time.

[Firebringer]

lel, I'm "elitist scum" for suggesting that players who don't enjoy analytical play won't stick around to play lots of FM games. If something isn't enjoyable for you, you don't do it, plain and simple. For example, if you're going to rage quit a game instead of seeing it through, don't sign and waste everyone else's time.

People can enjoy the game even if they don't care for analytics, the game is about engaging with people to find out the truth.

You don't need to be a analytical person to do that. You just have to be a person who understands what others are trying to do/say and if they are actually trying to tell truth or deceive.

It doesn't have to be heavy like this post/comment right here isn't truthfull. It can be "Man, this guy just doesn't feel right".

[DarknessB]

Its primarily a elitist thing. No playstyle is perfect, no playstyle is best.
Theres a gravitation for certain playstyles by many people.

The only playstyle I don't approve of is Lurking.
As long as you can get people who won't lurk and can post not just spammy messages. Games will go fine.

Why do we need just X playstyle?

Players who adopt the mod mindset in FM often times become lurkers because they are dependent on night leads to do anything / be confident someone is scum. Otherwise, they are paralyzed with indecision and don't know what to do. This is why we need games where they can practice scumhunting and realize that good FM play isn't waiting for night leads before doing anything.

No one is saying everyone needs to be analytical per se, but an overdependence on night leads in most FMs (other than our TPR feats) is a recipe for disaster. That's the biggest obstacle mod players face when starting FMs and we're not doing them any favors by spoiling them with "easy" TPR-laden setups. You will never learn to scumhunt if you are always waiting for the Sheriff or Mayor to take charge.

[BananaCucho]

People can enjoy the game even if they don't care for analytics, the game is about engaging with people to find out the truth.

You don't need to be a analytical person to do that. You just have to be a person who understands what others are trying to do/say and if they are actually trying to tell truth or deceive.

It doesn't have to be heavy like this post/comment right here isn't truthfull. It can be "Man, this guy just doesn't feel right".

You really just want to argue for the sake of arguing.

I do agree with you, but maybe new players don't like that, (g)et bored and leave too fast.

This was the comment I was responding to. If they get bored and leave, FM isn't for them. That doesn't make me elitist scum. Go play what they enjoy.

For those of us that DO enjoy FM and play for FUN, the game is even MORE enjoyable when the other players in the game are trying to be analytical, so I encourage players that do play to be more analytical. I really can't tell if you want to make a point or just want to fight with Banana.

[MattZed]

@powerofdeath , would you be interested in hosting Return to Normalcy Mini for this purpose? Having the roles players are used to from the mod could make it easier for them to adjust.

[DarknessB]

@powerofdeath , would you be interested in hosting Return to Normalcy Mini for this purpose? Having the roles players are used to from the mod could make it easier for them to adjust.

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but hasn't PoD been the most vocal player on our site against hydra games so far? Odd that you would think he would be willing to convert his game to an all training hydra setup. Of course, let's see if he proves me wrong, lol.

[Cryptonic]

Using a role list with all hidden roles shifts the game from analysis and a Mylo cc's to an entirely different type of game. Plus I want a game with gaurenteed more than 1/3 the game citizens; if players aren't willing to be active citizens, then they don't really have a place in FM. I dont want to force PoD to reveal a large chunk of his role list if he doesn't want to

[MattZed]

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but hasn't PoD been the most vocal player on our site against hydra games so far? Odd that you would think he would be willing to convert his game to an all training hydra setup. Of course, let's see if he proves me wrong, lol.

We don't have to play with archons; it's one way to get new players involved, but not a necessary component.

[pisskop]

Why cant you guys have hydra set up?

Just pair players 2 to a lot, or even 3, for a game where you can let each experienced player govern their newbie but not able to take a very direct part in the game.

Im a huge fan of competition; nobody else would rejoice at the chance to use new players to outmanuver other players?

Ima /in to mod Peon Mafia right now.

[SuperJack]

Why cant you guys have hydra set up?

Just pair players 2 to a lot, or even 3, for a game where you can let each experienced player govern their newbie but not able to take a very direct part in the game.

Im a huge fan of competition; nobody else would rejoice at the chance to use new players to outmanuver other players?

Ima /in to mod Peon Mafia right now.

Mostly. Maybe some players dont wish to have a mentor/guide.

[powerofdeath]

@powerofdeath , would you be interested in hosting Return to Normalcy Mini for this purpose? Having the roles players are used to from the mod could make it easier for them to adjust.

Sure

[SuperJack]

@MichaelScott

Someone who I've found seems to be very interested into signing up.

[Panda]

hi i'm new to this site... you guys don't have an introduction board ?

[SuperJack]

hi i'm new to this site... you guys don't have an introduction board ?

Oh... FM experience?

[SuperJack]

welcome @Toast

[pisskop]

All around country coast to coast
People always ask whatdoyou like most?
I dont wanna brag I dont wanna boast

[Panda]

Oh... FM experience?

@SuperJack yes i have a tiny bit of forum mafia experience, just enough to kinda know the ins and outs of the basics. I signed up for the Final Fantasy game i hope that's ok. i would be interested in a Newbie game if you are gonna get one started.

[SuperJack]

@SuperJack yes i have a tiny bit of forum mafia experience, just enough to kinda know the ins and outs of the basics. I signed up for the Final Fantasy game i hope that's ok. i would be interested in a Newbie game if you are gonna get one started.

Sure. I'll find that Introduction thread for you, I think it got buried. But I'm sure Brendan can help.

[MattZed]

@SuperJack yes i have a tiny bit of forum mafia experience, just enough to kinda know the ins and outs of the basics. I signed up for the Final Fantasy game i hope that's ok. i would be interested in a Newbie game if you are gonna get one started.

You're welcome to join any game you like! We'll see about getting a newbie game started soon.

-MattZed, Forum Mafia Moderator

[SuperJack]

hi i'm new to this site... you guys don't have an introduction board ?

People did start to use this part : https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/forumd...eal-Life-Forum

[SuperJack]

So far 4 are comfirmed:

MichaelScott
Toast
Panda
Veri

And I'm just awaiting contact from others.

[BananaCucho]

@PLZLEAVEDUCKK

Come play this