S-FM 206: POLITICO

[Cryptonic]

S-FM POLITICO


Setup Thread

Role List	Living Players	Graveyard
Congressman Congressman Congressman Governor Judge Mayor States Attorney Voter Voter Voter Voter Voter	@Calix @Kovath @GameFreak @Gyrlander @Unknown1234 @Never Unlucky @Brendan @Spruance @Mesk514 @Eggy @Firebringer @oops_ur_dead

It is currently night. Night ends in roughly 24.5 hours, at 9:00 AM Central. Night start times will vary throughout the game, depending on availability & time of lynch.
Night actions will be accepted tonight, but there will be no night kill.
Please have all night actions in at least 1 hour before night ends.
You may now post in any chat you may have.

Eggy is the mayor with 2 votes.

[Cryptonic]

Sorry I was busy w/ work & meetings this morning. Day starting in a minute

[Cryptonic]

Day One

Role List	Living Players	Graveyard
Congressman Congressman Congressman Governor Judge Mayor States Attorney Voter Voter Voter Voter Voter	@Calix @Kovath @GameFreak @Gyrlander @Unknown1234 @Never Unlucky @Brendan @Spruance @Mesk514 @Eggy @Firebringer @oops_ur_dead

Day One ends in 48 hours, at 2:00 PM Central, July 23.

With 12 Players alive, it takes 7 votes to hammer.

Eggy is the mayor with 2 votes.
Unknown1234 is the mayor with 0 votes.
Calix has been pardoned by the Governor, and cannot be lynched today.

[States Attorney]

-vote Eggy

[Calix]

Let's get this show started.

-vote Never Unlucky

I am surprised that the Judge neutered Unknown - of all players - instead of the Mayor on N0. The double-voter seems like the obvious target for a supposedly-uninformed Judge.

[Kovath]

I'm pumped.

-vote Unknown1234

You're not getting away easy this time, buddy.

[Calix]

I'm pumped.

-vote Unknown1234

You're not getting away easy this time, buddy.

Before you two boys start another round of chest-thumping, thoughts on the night actions?

[Kovath]

Before you two boys start another round of chest-thumping, thoughts on the night actions?

You'd like that, eh?

Eh, it was N0 -> D1 so I wouldn't read too much into them (maybe just RNG lel) but:

Judge on Unknown: No idea what the purpose of this was. Not sure neutering the mayor was the obvious choice, though, since it would make lynches more difficult...
States Attorney on Eggy: Probably just slapped it on the only known PR.
Governor on Calix: Seems more like a placeholder, Calix probably doesn't get lynched D1 over others. Or the Governor just really wants Calix to live.

Your thoughts on getting pardoned and the Attorney vote?

[Calix]

You'd like that, eh?

Eh, it was N0 -> D1 so I wouldn't read too much into them (maybe just RNG lel) but:

Judge on Unknown: No idea what the purpose of this was. Not sure neutering the mayor was the obvious choice, though, since it would make lynches more difficult...
States Attorney on Eggy: Probably just slapped it on the only known PR.
Governor on Calix: Seems more like a placeholder, Calix probably doesn't get lynched D1 over others. Or the Governor just really wants Calix to live.

Your thoughts on getting pardoned and the Attorney vote?

You know it

Even if it's RNG, we should be using it to discuss. This is one of the few games where we actually have information on Day One

In my opinion, neutering the potential scum Mayor with 2 votes for the first day seems like optimal strategy. Judge shouldn't know anything about anyone else so why not go for the potential threat first?

Governor pardoning me was stupid - all it does is confirm that I am not the Governor and thus reduces the number of players that can be. I don't consider the move to be alignment-indicative one way or another as I have yet to be lynched on Day One. I agree that they probably assumed that it wouldn't do much harm.

States Attorney voting right at the start for the confirmed role is moronic and it means we have less leeway with shifting votes.

[Never Unlucky]

Before you two boys start another round of chest-thumping, thoughts on the night actions?

I think the Governor did what most people would have done at N0. He pardoned the strongest-minded player in the game so that this person could focus on others rather than himself. Good move.

I also believe that the Judge pulled a NeverUnlucky (as in noob/not informed) move. Not knowing what to do, I assume this player voted one of his friends or just straight up random.com his action.

States attorney did the natural thing: casting the vote on who was most likely going to be policy lynched. With no reads on other players, it is the right thing to do.

[Calix]

I think the Governor did what most people would have done at N0. He pardoned the strongest-minded player in the game so that this person could focus on others rather than himself. Good move.

I also believe that the Judge pulled a NeverUnlucky (as in noob/not informed) move. Not knowing what to do, I assume this player voted one of his friends or just straight up random.com his action.

States attorney did the natural thing: casting the vote on who was most likely going to be policy lynched. With no reads on other players, it is the right thing to do.

You're familiar with my play, I take it? Elaborate please.

Why do you go out of your way to characterise yourself as a noob in your first post?

You think that the Mayor will be policy-lynched on Day 1 - why now? Do you condone this idea and why?

[Kovath]

You know it

Even if it's RNG, we should be using it to discuss. This is one of the few games where we actually have information on Day One

In my opinion, neutering the potential scum Mayor with 2 votes for the first day seems like optimal strategy. Judge shouldn't know anything about anyone else so why not go for the potential threat first?

Governor pardoning me was stupid - all it does is confirm that I am not the Governor and thus reduces the number of players that can be. I don't consider the move to be alignment-indicative one way or another as I have yet to be lynched on Day One. I agree that they probably assumed that it wouldn't do much harm.

States Attorney voting right at the start for the confirmed role is moronic and it means we have less leeway with shifting votes.

I understand your point about the Judge - though, considering it's Day 1 with everyone alive, it's not like a scum Mayor will screw us over by driving the lynches. And there is potential town motivation in not lowering the probability of a lynch - by probability the Mayor is probably a town, after all, not a scum trying to push a mislynch. And still, a lynch should give us more info than a no-lynch.

Do you think the Governor and Attorney should just not have used their actions at all then?

I think the Governor did what most people would have done at N0. He pardoned the strongest-minded player in the game so that this person could focus on others rather than himself. Good move.

I also believe that the Judge pulled a NeverUnlucky (as in noob/not informed) move. Not knowing what to do, I assume this player voted one of his friends or just straight up random.com his action.

States attorney did the natural thing: casting the vote on who was most likely going to be policy lynched. With no reads on other players, it is the right thing to do.

Why do you think Eggy is the most likely PL over... say, Gyrlander?

[Calix]

I understand your point about the Judge - though, considering it's Day 1 with everyone alive, it's not like a scum Mayor will screw us over by driving the lynches. And there is potential town motivation in not lowering the probability of a lynch - by probability the Mayor is probably a town, after all, not a scum trying to push a mislynch. And still, a lynch should give us more info than a no-lynch.

Do you think the Governor and Attorney should just not have used their actions at all then?



Why do you think Eggy is the most likely PL over... say, Gyrlander?

Perhaps. Personally, I feel pretty confident in determining Eggy's alignment...he just has to show up for more than three seconds first.

Why bring up the benefits of a lynch over a no-lynch when that was not being discussed?

Governor using their action today was foolish at best. Scum know three roles at the least, maybe more if one of them is a Congressman. If the Governor is town, they'll figure out who they are much quicker than the town will.

States Attorney should have waited in my opinion. Doesn't tell us much about their alignment when they vote for the confirmed role straight off the bat, you know?

I'll just throw it up now that I'd support a policy lynch on Gyrloser if we're fucked for targets a few hours from EOD and if he doesn't attempt to play the game. I don't want to waste more time discussing that because that is what I'll be considering

[Calix]

Wait, just remembered that there can either be two or three scum.

I did not like that mechanic in the M-FM and I won't like it now.

[Never Unlucky]

A) You're familiar with my play, I take it? Elaborate please.

B) Why do you go out of your way to characterise yourself as a noob in your first post?

C) You think that the Mayor will be policy-lynched on Day 1 - why now? Do you condone this idea and why?

A) I am not. This is the first time I get to play with you. I only know you from reputation, lol. A strong-headed and independant person who sometimes tunnels too hard. :P I will get to make up my own opinion of you throughout this game.

B) 1. Because I am still a noob in my eyes. This is my second forum mafia game, and there are definitely still some mechanics I am not familiar with. For instance, I am confused as to what needs to be disussed the first day. The other game I played, day 1 served rvs and a chess game. The discussions felt sort of futile to me. 2. Because I tried making joke. Self-mockery makes others laugh, I heard.

C) I do not think he should be lynched just for being the mayor. This seems unfair for the player who signed up for a game only to get lynched for receiving a certain role. I thought the mayor was the person who was most likely going to be policy lynched on D1 because that is what the people who critiqued Crypt's setup had predicted. I remember Kovath making a post about the power of the mayor's role in a mylo/lylo situation. It is an opinion I somewhat share, but I'd rather base my lynches on my reads than policies.

[Mesk514]

I am surprised that the Judge neutered Unknown - of all players

I know right, not as if his balls have already dropped anyways ;)

[Kovath]

Perhaps. Personally, I feel pretty confident in determining Eggy's alignment...he just has to show up for more than three seconds first.

Why bring up the benefits of a lynch over a no-lynch when that was not being discussed?

Governor using their action today was foolish at best. Scum know three roles at the least, maybe more if one of them is a Congressman. If the Governor is town, they'll figure out who they are much quicker than the town will.

States Attorney should have waited in my opinion. Doesn't tell us much about their alignment when they vote for the confirmed role straight off the bat, you know?

I'll just throw it up now that I'd support a policy lynch on Gyrloser if we're fucked for targets a few hours from EOD and if he doesn't attempt to play the game. I don't want to waste more time discussing that because that is what I'll be considering

Aye, Eggy's alignment is probably an easier one if he'd not lurk :P

I brought it up because I considered it relevant to my considerations of why a Judge might or might not have wanted to target Eggy -> whether AI or not.

Foolish at best, then what at worst? You said earlier that it wasn't AI for you. Does a waiting Governor read as Town to you and what actually happened as null then? What's the distinction?

Does the States Attorney waiting tell anything about their alignment either?

I've made my feelings about Mr. G known on multiple occasions.

[Mesk514]

-vote oops_ur_dead

bite me

[Calix]

A) I am not. This is the first time I get to play with you. I only know you from reputation, lol. A strong-headed and independant person who sometimes tunnels too hard. :P I will get to make up my own opinion of you throughout this game.

B) 1. Because I am still a noob in my eyes. This is my second forum mafia game, and there are definitely still some mechanics I am not familiar with. For instance, I am confused as to what needs to be disussed the first day. The other game I played, day 1 served rvs and a chess game. The discussions felt sort of futile to me. 2. Because I tried making joke. Self-mockery makes others laugh, I heard.

C) I do not think he should be lynched just for being the mayor. This seems unfair for the player who signed up for a game only to get lynched for receiving a certain role. I thought the mayor was the person who was most likely going to be policy lynched on D1 because that is what the people who critiqued Crypt's setup had predicted. I remember Kovath making a post about the power of the mayor's role in a mylo/lylo situation. It is an opinion I somewhat share, but I'd rather base my lynches on my reads than policies.

A. Strong independent wymyn at your service.

B. How do you think your lack of experience will affect this game? You brought it up in a fairly awkward-sounding comment FMPOV so you must think it'll have some influence.

Your last two sentences veer off-topic - why include them?

C. We're not deciding lynches based on ideas of what is 'fair' so that is a weak argument. Do you have any better arguments for why the Mayor should not be lynched on policy?

[Gyrlander]

Bonjour!

-vote Calix

[Kovath]

C) I do not think he should be lynched just for being the mayor. This seems unfair for the player who signed up for a game only to get lynched for receiving a certain role. I thought the mayor was the person who was most likely going to be policy lynched on D1 because that is what the people who critiqued Crypt's setup had predicted. I remember Kovath making a post about the power of the mayor's role in a mylo/lylo situation. It is an opinion I somewhat share, but I'd rather base my lynches on my reads than policies.

The unique PRs are all pretty strong in endgame situation but that shouldn't influence how we vote on Day 1...

Policy lynches usually are about lynching certain slots because of how they play. You still didn't really answer the question about why Eggy was the person you thought most likely to be lynched on policy - unless you claim that your point had nothing to do with him as a slot.

[Calix]

Aye, Eggy's alignment is probably an easier one if he'd not lurk :P

I brought it up because I considered it relevant to my considerations of why a Judge might or might not have wanted to target Eggy -> whether AI or not.

Foolish at best, then what at worst? You said earlier that it wasn't AI for you. Does a waiting Governor read as Town to you and what actually happened as null then? What's the distinction?

Does the States Attorney waiting tell anything about their alignment either?

I've made my feelings about Mr. G known on multiple occasions.

At worst, it could have been careless scum who doesn't have the fear of being outed to the scum and thus didn't think twice about picking a target. Not enough information to make a definitive judgment, although given that the Governor picked a town FMPOV for the first day, I am biased and think they are more likely to be town.

Waiting isn't particularly alignment-indicative on Day One, I wouldn't say. A scum SA might want to hold back their vote and use it to swing onto a mislynch if the situation arises. A town SA might hold back until they have more information to go from. The early vote strikes me as careless more than anything malicious.

[Calix]

Bonjour!

-vote Calix

Moving away from role speculation...

This opening post rubs me the wrong way. Looks like a RVS vote that conveniently is on the pardoned player (would suggest that he's either not paying attention or/ and is trolling) but it's a fake vote.

Then he leaves without commenting on anything else. NAI by itself but fake-voting and dashing off is a poor way to start off the day.

Just feels like he's trying too hard to come across as careless.

[Unknown1234]

Gyrlander, why vote Calix when she can't get lynched? Sorry buddy.

[Unknown1234]

Let's get this show started.

-vote Never Unlucky

I am surprised that the Judge neutered Unknown - of all players - instead of the Mayor on N0. The double-voter seems like the obvious target for a supposedly-uninformed Judge.

Why does this surprise you "of all players" ?

[Unknown1234]

I'm pumped.

-vote Unknown1234

You're not getting away easy this time, buddy.

I'm hoping you don't keep this up this game.

[Kovath]

Gyrlander, why vote Calix when she can't get lynched? Sorry buddy.

Why call him out on something weird and then say "Sorry buddy"?

[Gyrlander]

I wanted to see your reaction after fake voting the pardoned player. Now, I'm more confident you're Corrupt.

-vote Unknown

[Calix]

Why does this surprise you "of all players" ?

You are not known for your ability to lead lynches.

[Unknown1234]

Before you two boys start another round of chest-thumping, thoughts on the night actions?

Eggy having a vote on him makes me feel like he's town and the States Attorney is scum. Not much to input on this but why would a town immediately put a vote on the mayor day 1?

Me not having a vote makes me think it's someone who is either 1.) Dumb 2.) Faking Dumb. 3.) Knows I have good judgement. So MESK/Calix/Kovath is where I'd start looking for the judge. Very quick observation but the only thing that has really led me is my vote. I've been slacking in the past games.

[Calix]

I wanted to see your reaction after fake voting the pardoned player. Now, I'm more confident you're Corrupt.

-vote Unknown

Explain what about Unknown's reaction made you 'more' confident.

Why were you confident that he was scum in the first place?
@Gyrlander

[Unknown1234]

Oh, the Governor seems town, or he's teamed up with Calix. Scum wouldn't put a pardon on town!Calix on day 1, makes no sense.

[Never Unlucky]

B. How do you think your lack of experience will affect this game? You brought it up in a fairly awkward-sounding comment FMPOV so you must think it'll have some influence.

Your last two sentences veer off-topic - why include them?

C. We're not deciding lynches based on ideas of what is 'fair' so that is a weak argument. Do you have any better arguments for why the Mayor should not be lynched on policy?

B. I do not think my lack of experience will affect the game. I think it will only affect me in having to look up terms online or trying not to get manipulated and thus sheep.
As I said, when I brought it up I was trying to put a bit of humor in my post. I called myself a noob as in new player, not as a weaker player. That's what was going through my mind when I wrote the post.

C.Kovath brought up two very solid arguments on this point. First, he is statistically more likely to be town than corrupted. Second, the state attorney and the judge are the two prs that have the most potential to get someone lynched. As town do not have the ability to kill at night, lynching is the only way to get rid of the crooks. Those two roles are very important in that regard.

I will add that the Judge counters the mayor. We really do not have to lynch Eggy if he is a town-read. Even if he is a scum-read we can keep him alive for the entire game and lynch him at the end as long as the judge keeps targeting him.

[Unknown1234]

I wanted to see your reaction after fake voting the pardoned player. Now, I'm more confident you're Corrupt.

-vote Unknown

Does that make sense to you?

[Calix]

Eggy having a vote on him makes me feel like he's town and the States Attorney is scum. Not much to input on this but why would a town immediately put a vote on the mayor day 1?

Me not having a vote makes me think it's someone who is either 1.) Dumb 2.) Faking Dumb. 3.) Knows I have good judgement. So MESK/Calix/Kovath is where I'd start looking for the judge. Very quick observation but the only thing that has really led me is my vote. I've been slacking in the past games.

Why are you openly TPR-hunting?

I agree with you on one point. I don't think States Attorney and Mayor are in a scum team together.

Think about it. Both of those roles on the scum team would mean that scum have the ability to use 4+ votes. They'd be able to carry lynches by themselves if they lived until the Final 7 or so.

[Unknown1234]

Why call him out on something weird and then say "Sorry buddy"?

Because his vote is pointless? Maybe it doesn't make sense but that's where I was going. Maybe taunting a bit too :P

[Kovath]

In regards to Gyrlander:

First, it wasn't even a real vote, he said Unknown and not Unknown1234 LOL

Second, why specifically target Calix in order to draw out a reaction 10 posts later from Unknown, who you thought was scum when he hadn't even posted yet?

[Never Unlucky]

The unique PRs are all pretty strong in endgame situation but that shouldn't influence how we vote on Day 1...

Policy lynches usually are about lynching certain slots because of how they play. You still didn't really answer the question about why Eggy was the person you thought most likely to be lynched on policy - unless you claim that your point had nothing to do with him as a slot.

That is my point, yes.

[Unknown1234]

Why are you openly TPR-hunting?

I agree with you on one point. I don't think States Attorney and Mayor are in a scum team together.

Think about it. Both of those roles on the scum team would mean that scum have the ability to use 4+ votes. They'd be able to carry lynches by themselves if they lived until the Final 7 or so.

Maybe I shouldn't be doing this, but I've been making these kinds of observations in the past few games where it doesn't matter if you're a TPR or not. Sometimes it might come down to the balance in the end, but I'll keep it to myself.

[Unknown1234]

In regards to Gyrlander:

First, it wasn't even a real vote, he said Unknown and not Unknown1234 LOL

Second, why specifically target Calix in order to draw out a reaction 10 posts later from Unknown, who you thought was scum when he hadn't even posted yet?

I thought it was more of a general trap. Otherwise no clue.

[Calix]

B. I do not think my lack of experience will affect the game. I think it will only affect me in having to look up terms online or trying not to get manipulated and thus sheep.
As I said, when I brought it up I was trying to put a bit of humor in my post. I called myself a noob as in new player, not as a weaker player. That's what was going through my mind when I wrote the post.

C.Kovath brought up two very solid arguments on this point. First, he is statistically more likely to be town than corrupted. Second, the state attorney and the judge are the two prs that have the most potential to get someone lynched. As town do not have the ability to kill at night, lynching is the only way to get rid of the crooks. Those two roles are very important in that regard.

I will add that the Judge counters the mayor. We really do not have to lynch Eggy if he is a town-read. Even if he is a scum-read we can keep him alive for the entire game and lynch him at the end as long as the judge keeps targeting him.

Your self-meta has been noted.

I can't see many productive avenues for discussion that pursuing this will go, so let's shift onto the players themselves.

Initial impressions on the players please.

[Mesk514]

hey guys, i just want to point out the obvious and say 1 of the congressman is evil

[Kovath]

B. I do not think my lack of experience will affect the game. I think it will only affect me in having to look up terms online or trying not to get manipulated and thus sheep.
As I said, when I brought it up I was trying to put a bit of humor in my post. I called myself a noob as in new player, not as a weaker player. That's what was going through my mind when I wrote the post.

C.Kovath brought up two very solid arguments on this point. First, he is statistically more likely to be town than corrupted. Second, the state attorney and the judge are the two prs that have the most potential to get someone lynched. As town do not have the ability to kill at night, lynching is the only way to get rid of the crooks. Those two roles are very important in that regard.

I will add that the Judge counters the mayor. We really do not have to lynch Eggy if he is a town-read. Even if he is a scum-read we can keep him alive for the entire game and lynch him at the end as long as the judge keeps targeting him.

This is the second time you've defaulted to reasoning I've provided (on different questions, true) in first the setup thread and now the game thread. Why are you sheeping my thoughts so hard?

What if the Judge is scum?

[Gyrlander]

I'm playing with you in hope to get reactions that I can analyze, so don't worry. We should focus on Mesk saying that 1 Congressman is evil when there is no confirmation.

[Unknown1234]

Perhaps. Personally, I feel pretty confident in determining Eggy's alignment...he just has to show up for more than three seconds first.

Why bring up the benefits of a lynch over a no-lynch when that was not being discussed?

Governor using their action today was foolish at best. Scum know three roles at the least, maybe more if one of them is a Congressman. If the Governor is town, they'll figure out who they are much quicker than the town will.

States Attorney should have waited in my opinion. Doesn't tell us much about their alignment when they vote for the confirmed role straight off the bat, you know?

I'll just throw it up now that I'd support a policy lynch on Gyrloser if we're fucked for targets a few hours from EOD and if he doesn't attempt to play the game. I don't want to waste more time discussing that because that is what I'll be considering

I would agree on the states attorney point. There really is no reason to put a vote on someone day 1, I'd assume highly that the States Attorney is scum, and wants the mayor gone. We saw last game how the mayor ended up being the game decider SIMPLY because he had more votes. I think a town states attorney would wait.

[Calix]

hey guys, i just want to point out the obvious and say 1 of the congressman is evil

Question. Why is this obvious?

[Unknown1234]

I'm playing with you in hope to get reactions that I can analyze, so don't worry. We should focus on Mesk saying that 1 Congressman is evil when there is no confirmation.

Why does that stick out to you as a scum call?

[Calix]

I'm playing with you in hope to get reactions that I can analyze, so don't worry. We should focus on Mesk saying that 1 Congressman is evil when there is no confirmation.

>says we should focus on X
>does not do anything to put focus on X

Strong.

Follow up please.

[Unknown1234]

Gyrlander shifting away from is comment is noted.

Gyrlander why did you focus your reaction on me?

[Brendan]

-vote oops_ur_dead