S-FM 218: Mafia Wars III

[Whad]

I wasnt implying you were, it was more of a subconscious thing to take note of, since you already believe scum to be dumb.

I (Iced) was replaced in to take paladins slot because he hadnt arrived for the game. Shortly after taking the slot he returned and we arranged to ***** as I felt bad for taking his slot given he hadnt missed all that much of the game yet.

Why aren't you signing your archon posts?

[Okabe]

clearly not reading about how if either jailor tries to deviate they will be insta lynched...

Ahh yes, but there is the possibility the candidates we give to jailors are all town, and by following orders to execute, the jailors gain town cred (if theyre scum), and we are left with semi trusted/confirmed scum who can deviate later in the game when they are in better control of the game

[Okabe]

There are more than just 3 scum. Firebringer, myself, DW, and who else is the 4th on your top scumlist?

This is all we have agreed on at the moment.

[Okabe]

Why aren't you signing your archon posts?

Because i have referenced myself several times in the last posts as Iced, and paladin signs his?

[Okabe]

In reference to your question on whether we are scum, there is no point to playing that game again, its been done.

[Empathy17]

Ahh yes, but there is the possibility the candidates we give to jailors are all town, and by following orders to execute, the jailors gain town cred (if theyre scum), and we are left with semi trusted/confirmed scum who can deviate later in the game when they are in better control of the game

you realzie that scum will have to deal with them then? and lets say both are scum fro arguments. they would most likely end up corss killing or be POEd out or not being killed before endgame you realize that right?

[Whad]

Ahh yes, but there is the possibility the candidates we give to jailors are all town, and by following orders to execute, the jailors gain town cred (if theyre scum), and we are left with semi trusted/confirmed scum who can deviate later in the game when they are in better control of the game

Can you, Iced, tell me what you think about the Cancer v. FA scenario? I'm wondering why neither of them made it onto your scumlist.

[Whad]

In reference to your question on whether we are scum, there is no point to playing that game again, its been done.

Well what was the answer then? I don't understand why you won't say you aren't scum. Town has no reason to be this difficult if you are in fact town. The refusal to claim not scum is making me think you are scummier and scummier.

[Okabe]

I cant ISO on my phone, so I apolgise for the inconvenience, but Empathy, would you mind repeating your reads list for me

[Okabe]

Well what was the answer then? I don't understand why you won't say you aren't scum. Town has no reason to be this difficult if you are in fact town. The refusal to claim not scum is making me think you are scummier and scummier.

All town would claim town. All scum would claim scum. Your line of questioning is unproductive.

[Okabe]

Hahaha. All scum would claim town*

[Whad]

All town would claim town. All scum would claim scum. Your line of questioning is unproductive.

@deathworlds Oh look another slip!

[Okabe]

Can you, Iced, tell me what you think about the Cancer v. FA scenario? I'm wondering why neither of them made it onto your scumlist.

As we have already mentioned, we are not interested in entering into the FA vs Cancer debarkle at this time as it has already been decided that FA will flip soon.

Whilst the flip of either does not directly absolve the other of being scum, it gives us far more information to work with, especially any reported leads from either come d3.

[Whad]

I cant ISO on my phone, so I apolgise for the inconvenience, but Empathy, would you mind repeating your reads list for me

btw thanks for BLATANTLY asking Empathy17 for their reads list when I asked you for your 4th top scum read. Think for yourself please. You'll get no town points for just sheeping Empathy.

[Empathy17]

All town would claim town. All scum would claim scum. Your line of questioning is unproductive.

disagree. any question can look pointless na dusless but they can be the most insightful. if you ever seen me and silver play i often try to get off topic and be game related at the same time. my off topic/pointless questions (and yes one of them is the "are you town" thing) has much more meaning then jsut its question itself.

[Whad]

As we have already mentioned, we are not interested in entering into the FA vs Cancer debarkle at this time as it has already been decided that FA will flip soon.

Whilst the flip of either does not directly absolve the other of being scum, it gives us far more information to work with, especially any reported leads from either come d3.

I want to know what you, Iced, think about the situation though.

Please elaborate a scenario in which the flip of either doesn't directly absolve the other of being scum. I'm not really sure what you mean by that.

[Empathy17]

btw thanks for BLATANTLY asking Empathy17 for their reads list when I asked you for your 4th top scum read. Think for yourself please. You'll get no town points for just sheeping Empathy.

im telling silverwolf to hold off on her post becasue its going to be the updated read lsit. when they decide to give a full read lsit or the 4th one she will post it

[Okabe]

@deathworlds Oh look another slip!

Please explain how that was in any way an alignment indicative slip.

This comment makes it appear you are attempting to grasp at straws to shift attention onto us.

[Empathy17]

Please explain how that was in any way an alignment indicative slip.

This comment makes it appear you are attempting to grasp at straws to shift attention onto us.

well consdiering you have done nothing but answer questiosn with questions i find what shes doing acceptable

[Okabe]

btw thanks for BLATANTLY asking Empathy17 for their reads list when I asked you for your 4th top scum read. Think for yourself please. You'll get no town points for just sheeping Empathy.

I have no interest in sheeping empathy. And I already adressed your 4th read question, please pay more attention to the thread.

As empathy is available, and i was unable to find their read list, i wanted it repeated so i could better question them.

Grasping at straws again.

[Okabe]

I want to know what you, Iced, think about the situation though.

Please elaborate a scenario in which the flip of either doesn't directly absolve the other of being scum. I'm not really sure what you mean by that.

There are 4 scenarios. TvT, TvS, SvT, SvS. The outcome from either of thwm flipping does not guarantee the alignment of the other.

[Empathy17]

I have no interest in sheeping empathy. And I already adressed your 4th read question, please pay more attention to the thread.

As empathy is available, and i was unable to find their read list, i wanted it repeated so i could better question them.

Grasping at straws again.

you have? what post number?

[Okabe]

well consdiering you have done nothing but answer questiosn with questions i find what shes doing acceptable

That does not answer the question, or have relevancy to the question either

[Empathy17]

That does not answer the question, or have relevancy to the question either

what question? the thing is your not hard stancing anything from how im seeing it right now and instead trying to play mediator and middle ground it where you can have mosre freedom to do what you need

[Okabe]

you have? what post number?

1953, and by extension, 1963

[Empathy17]

I'm scumreading Okabe based on not only the questioning but the way they are responding to pressure with very controlled, careful, measured comments. Also, questioning your accuser is something I've done as scum in the past in a way to avoid answering questioning and change the subject. The Janitor comments are just a paranoid theory I have that they could be doing that for WIFOM and be the janitor. I would like them to be jailed as well as FA.

Also, we are scumreading FA and Yuki. I've explained FA and Yuki is not really doing any scumhunting. We have concerns about deathworlds as well but not as much as the others. Gyrlander is a gut town feel. We were concerned with Whad and explaind that but he looks better to me now than earlier because I like the way they are methodically trying to scumhunt and figure out the game and I like their questioning of Okabe. It looks town overall.

Firebringer I was townreading d1, his behavior is very erratic now but I have a hard time seeing it as scum. I think Elephant is town which I've explained and obviously RLVG is. I think yzb's early analysis looked town and Cancer's claim and subsequent behavior leans town now even though we were hard scumreading them earlier.

So if I had to guess 4 scum in order of most scummy to least, I'd go-Okabe, FA, Yuki, deathworlds.

~SW

[Okabe]

what question? the thing is your not hard stancing anything from how im seeing it right now and instead trying to play mediator and middle ground it where you can have mosre freedom to do what you need

You quoted a question i posed to whad and now you ask what question? Did you misquote?

I personally am trying a new playstyle, my current stance is a result of the lack of reliable information I have to work with. Perhaps its a result of my abscence from playing forum games and an increase in mod games, developing a dependance on night actions. Make of it what you will.

[Empathy17]

You quoted a question i posed to whad and now you ask what question? Did you misquote?

I personally am trying a new playstyle, my current stance is a result of the lack of reliable information I have to work with. Perhaps its a result of my abscence from playing forum games and an increase in mod games, developing a dependance on night actions. Make of it what you will.

none of your posts in the entire chain had a question. you were saying it sunproductive and when whad said "are you town" you just answered it each time with questions back si what im refering to

[Okabe]

Im not sure if im remembering correctly, but hasnt fire thrown a tantrum like this before, and threatened to leave if he didnt get his way?

Where you read his tantrum as town, I personally read it as an attempt to draw assosciations between his play in the previous game (where i believe he was town) and gain cred while simultaneously attempting to divert attention to cancer.

Additionally, i am dissapointed amd concerned that you read disruptive behaviour, spamming, and threatning as town behaviour. There is a difference between disgruntled/agitated town and this.

[Okabe]

none of your posts in the entire chain had a question. you were saying it sunproductive and when whad said "are you town" you just answered it each time with questions back si what im refering to

The post you quoted was one where i asked whad how he determined that me writing "scum is scum" could be alignment indicative, and making note that he was grasping at straws, especially by having to call someone else in.

[Okabe]

Day ends in half an hour right? I'll be on.

[Whad]

Please explain how that was in any way an alignment indicative slip.

This comment makes it appear you are attempting to grasp at straws to shift attention onto us.

You said town would claim town. You said scum would claim scum. You declined to actually answer my direct query "are you scum?" because you are scum and would have to claim scum.

I am not grasping at straws but thanks for trying to discredit me while I'm trying to pursue a lead on a huge scummy person.

I find it highly suspicious that I am on your top 3 scum list yet you aren't trying to question or probe me. I am town and you are on my top 4 scum list so I'm doing all I can to ask you questions to get a better read on you. It doesn't seem like townish behavior for you (as a hypothetical townsperson) to not question one of your top 3 scumreads who is here and willing to chat in the day thread. As a hypothetical townsperson you should be trying to actively do things to confirm or change your reads and you are not doing any probing of me, one of your top 3 scumreads. That's bad play if you're town; lazy play if you're scum.

[Whad]

You quoted a question i posed to whad and now you ask what question? Did you misquote?

I personally am trying a new playstyle, my current stance is a result of the lack of reliable information I have to work with. Perhaps its a result of my abscence from playing forum games and an increase in mod games, developing a dependance on night actions. Make of it what you will.

Excuses, excuses.

[Whad]

The post you quoted was one where i asked whad how he determined that me writing "scum is scum" could be alignment indicative, and making note that he was grasping at straws, especially by having to call someone else in.

I only mentioned deathworlds in that quote since he was super into finding "slips" on D1. I was making a joke lol. If you have been paying attention to like basically what preoccupied us for most of D1 then you'd know why I mentioned him. In no way do I NEED deathworlds to question people for me. Also, I find him pretty scummy so why would I want a scum read to question another of my scumreads????

[Okabe]

You said town would claim town. You said scum would claim scum. You declined to actually answer my direct query "are you scum?" because you are scum and would have to claim scum.

I am not grasping at straws but thanks for trying to discredit me while I'm trying to pursue a lead on a huge scummy person.

I find it highly suspicious that I am on your top 3 scum list yet you aren't trying to question or probe me. I am town and you are on my top 4 scum list so I'm doing all I can to ask you questions to get a better read on you. It doesn't seem like townish behavior for you (as a hypothetical townsperson) to not question one of your top 3 scumreads who is here and willing to chat in the day thread. As a hypothetical townsperson you should be trying to actively do things to confirm or change your reads and you are not doing any probing of me, one of your top 3 scumreads. That's bad play if you're town; lazy play if you're scum.

In what universe do you exist where "because you are scum you would have to answer you are scum" is true.

You have been asked many questions, it took you nearly 24hrs to answer our 'mole' question and had to be pinged several times to have it happen. Dont be hypocritical please.

[Empathy17]

Im not sure if im remembering correctly, but hasnt fire thrown a tantrum like this before, and threatened to leave if he didnt get his way?

Where you read his tantrum as town, I personally read it as an attempt to draw assosciations between his play in the previous game (where i believe he was town) and gain cred while simultaneously attempting to divert attention to cancer.

Additionally, i am dissapointed amd concerned that you read disruptive behaviour, spamming, and threatning as town behaviour. There is a difference between disgruntled/agitated town and this.

you could go look a t spirits game and jsut see the diffrence there

[Okabe]

I only mentioned deathworlds in that quote since he was super into finding "slips" on D1. I was making a joke lol. If you have been paying attention to like basically what preoccupied us for most of D1 then you'd know why I mentioned him. In no way do I NEED deathworlds to question people for me. Also, I find him pretty scummy so why would I want a scum read to question another of my scumreads????

If you payed attention to anything today then you would realise DW is not amused by these quotes, as this joke has already been made (by myself and elephant).

[Empathy17]

The post you quoted was one where i asked whad how he determined that me writing "scum is scum" could be alignment indicative, and making note that he was grasping at straws, especially by having to call someone else in.

I was refering to the fact you neever gave a direct answer to the "are you scum" question and how you think the line of questiong is pointless

[Empathy17]

If you payed attention to anything today then you would realise DW is not amused by these quotes, as this joke has already been made (by myself and elephant).

So?

[Okabe]

So?

At this point i dont think either of you are reading.

Whad makes a comment about me not reading day one so i wouldnt understand the dw mention.

I point out to him that i obviously have read it, thats how i made a joke about it at the start of d2, and that he clearly hasnt read d2. It was a jab at him for his jab at me. A joke if you will.

[Okabe]

well consdiering you have done nothing but answer questiosn with questions i find what shes doing acceptable

Why am I Using Questions?

A: Mockery
B: Socratic Method [mostly this]
C: Showing how dumb this is. [second mostly this]

~Palarin

[Okabe]

I was refering to the fact you neever gave a direct answer to the "are you scum" question and how you think the line of questiong is pointless

Its pointless because there is no universe in which anyone of any alignment ever claims anything but the majority faction (of which is in control). Ie town in this game.

[Okabe]

You said town would claim town. You said scum would claim scum. You declined to actually answer my direct query "are you scum?" because you are scum and would have to claim scum.Can you not read the correction to that statement, typos bro.

I am not grasping at straws but thanks for trying to discredit me while I'm trying to pursue a lead on a huge scummy person. Who is this huge scummy person, do you have any additional reads on that person if its gyrlander, cause I already pointed out why that was dumb

I find it highly suspicious that I am on your top 3 scum list yet you aren't trying to question or probe me. I am town and you are on my top 4 scum list so I'm doing all I can to ask you questions to get a better read on you. It doesn't seem like townish behavior for you (as a hypothetical townsperson) to not question one of your top 3 scumreads who is here and willing to chat in the day thread. As a hypothetical townsperson you should be trying to actively do things to confirm or change your reads and you are not doing any probing of me, one of your top 3 scumreads. That's bad play if you're town; lazy play if you're scum.
We discredited your original reasoning, showed why asking us for opinions was scummy in that case, and is showing how dumb you are being with this line of play

RESPONSES

[Whad]

In what universe do you exist where "because you are scum you would have to answer you are scum" is true.

You have been asked many questions, it took you nearly 24hrs to answer our 'mole' question and had to be pinged several times to have it happen. Dont be hypocritical please.

I hate lying and would have a hard time saying I'm town if I'm scum. I find that others are the same. In fact, if your slot ends up flipping scum, then it appears we would be similar.

Pinging me does nothing. I have a life and if I'm at work then I can't read or post anything relating to the game. Don't bring out of game things into the game. Your situation is different since you are here and were actively refusing to answer my questions and being really fency.

[Empathy17]

Its pointless because there is no universe in which anyone of any alignment ever claims anything but the majority faction (of which is in control). Ie town in this game.

Then you realzie you are claiming scum right now?

[Whad]

If you payed attention to anything today then you would realise DW is not amused by these quotes, as this joke has already been made (by myself and elephant).

I just quoted an ACTUAL slip by you though. Deathworlds just hasn't been on recently to read it.

[Whad]

Why am I Using Questions?

A: Mockery
B: Socratic Method [mostly this]
C: Showing how dumb this is. [second mostly this]

~Palarin

Is the socratic method appropriate in a game where you need to provide content so that other slots can read you instead of directing attention and the question flow away from you?

[Okabe]

Then you realzie you are claiming scum right now?

Please please PLEASE explain the fucking math on this.

[Okabe]

I just quoted an ACTUAL slip by you though. Deathworlds just hasn't been on recently to read it.

A: How is it a slip
B: Did we not correct it
C: Can't you see how one would make such an error?
D: Last I checked we didn't claim scum.

[Whad]

Its pointless because there is no universe in which anyone of any alignment ever claims anything but the majority faction (of which is in control). Ie town in this game.

Nobody will claim anything but the majority faction. However some people will refuse to claim (like you) if they are good honest people who have a hard time lying and claiming town as scum.