S-FM 225: WIFOM Mafia Q

[Unknown1234]

Agent can do that too Mesk.

[Mesk514]

Also, IIRC Mesk was the one who said we can't use VCA to find the third scum. So yeah, looks bad for her.

HOW FUCKING DARE YOU, YOU LITTLE SHIT. I said vca is practically useless today as we are looking to identify separate factions but it may actually be useful to use tomorrow! ALL IN AGREEANCE WITH WHAT YOU SAID which is that there was clearly scum on the wagon so not all town could fit. THEN FURY SAID VCA WAS COMPLETELY USELESS
fuck you, get your story straight

[Mesk514]

Agent can do that too Mesk.

You're fucking dumb and I'm actually insulted

[Fury]

Yea, I'm just saying I had a gut feeling that mesk was scum day 1 and I even pressured her about it, but my pressure was pretty much ignored/brushed aside by everyone. I have more of a town read on her today though, so maybe my gut read day 1 was wrong.

[Unknown1234]

What I DID say was that TBP can't use VCA to find scum based on everyone who did/didn't vote scum. Obviously there were Town that couldn't have voted on the train, and then there were Town (like you) who chose not to vote on that train.

Honestly, you shouldn't get upset about a scum-read so much if you're actually Town.

[Fury]

I town read mesk more than I town read some other people though, so I think lynching mesk would be a mistake.

[Unknown1234]

If you are getting mad at me directly because I'm suspicious of you in a game, this is ridiculous.

[Unknown1234]

Where did I ever say lynch Mesk?

[Fury]

Where did I ever say lynch Mesk?

No, I understood what you were doing. Some other townies may not have understood though.

[Mesk514]

What I DID say was that TBP can't use VCA to find scum based on everyone who did/didn't vote scum. Obviously there were Town that couldn't have voted on the train, and then there were Town (like you) who chose not to vote on that train.

Honestly, you shouldn't get upset about a scum-read so much if you're actually Town.

Idgaf about your scum read, it's your logic that irks the fuck out of me. I last said I was waiting for ika because he was making a strong argument on JUST lynching Ali, so obviously with no lookout ccs I'm going fucking follow him. I came back and stealth said he didn't mind l2 but not l1, so as a town member with no read on stealth I was willing to fucking respect that. OUT OF EVERYONE IT SHOULD BE YOU THAT UNDERSTANDS I'M LEARNING TO NOT TROLL VOTE.

and the other thing was said in AGREEANCE to YOU. I was agreeing with your point because I didn't come back in time for the lynch. I was the townie6who didn't make it on the train. You fucks left me behind.

[Mesk514]

If you are getting mad at me directly because I'm suspicious of you in a game, this is ridiculous.

............ I'm not mad bozo 😇

[Mesk514]

I'm insulted you insult the forces that always make me town.
If you don't believe me maybe posting some fans could persuade you

[Unknown1234]

Firstly, you only responded to half the argument so it's really annoying how you jump on me so much without even realizing you haven't been a perfect innocent townie. That being said, this emotion does not read scum but I really hope you don't take this aggression every time I'm playing the game.

There is a difference between troll voting and just plain simple voting. You shouldn't need to follow a confirmed towns vote to win the game. You could build scum-reads and vote based on what you think. I still thought Ika was town and followed my own reads.

[Unknown1234]

I'm insulted you insult the forces that always make me town.
If you don't believe me maybe posting some fans could persuade you

Once again, playing the game should not make you insulted.

[Mesk514]

Firstly, you only responded to half the argument so it's really annoying how you jump on me so much without even realizing you haven't been a perfect innocent townie. That being said, this emotion does not read scum but I really hope you don't take this aggression every time I'm playing the game.

There is a difference between troll voting and just plain simple voting. You shouldn't need to follow a confirmed towns vote to win the game. You could build scum-reads and vote based on what you think. I still thought Ika was town and followed my own reads.

Okay big daddy unknown
But in all seriousness, this is me your talking about, when do I ever formulate reads day1.

[Mesk514]

Once again, playing the game should not make you insulted.

[Mesk514]

Tell that to my infractions list

[Mesk514]

Also, wasn't everyone supposed to visit me last night. Someone here must have seen me visit myself again so I would be a retarded scum to visit myself two nights in a row

[thedougler]

If I had to go with my gut I read, at the moment I view myself, Voss, and Unknown as the more or less "confirmed" cits. SJ I see as a possible cit but I have not ruled out Joker. Fury and 22 are probably power roles. TBP I have a skight mafia lean on right now. For Mesk I have a slight Joker or maf lean, could go either way. The fact she self-visited means absolutely nothing to me, and her hard cit claim means even less.

Gyrlander is also possibly cit, but is pretty sketch in some ways.

-vote TwentyTwo

Agreed this guy seems weird. OFF WITH HIS HEAD.

He bandwaggoned even though I was just kind of finding my footing in this game and was probably mistaken in voting 22 based on the lack of a counterclaim. The sum total of his read on 22 was "this guy seems weird". No attempt to add depth to the discussion and help out town.

That sounds something like "I realised that there was NO way of getting you lynched, so I swapped my target to the guy that just replaced because... erm.. WIFOM."

Even when he talks about the game, his own reads on others are ultimately built upon their responses to something he has said about a band or some such nonsense. And he is still trolly and abbrasive, mostly toward unknown. He doesn't make reads on anyone and therefore all our leads on him are trying to pry meaning out of his nonsense smalltalk. Our sum of knowledge on Gyrlander is built on a foundation of shifting sands and deceit. It ensures any shit we fling at him won't stick.

He is likely scum of some sort, but if he continues to avoid making serious reads or contribute in any way I see no choice but to policy lynch him if he is town, as his behavior will only hurt us down the line.

-vote Gylander

[thedougler]

If I had to go with my gut I read, at the moment I view myself, Voss, and Unknown as the more or less "confirmed" cits. SJ I see as a possible cit but I have not ruled out Joker. Fury and 22 are probably power roles. TBP I have a skight mafia lean on right now. For Mesk I have a slight Joker or maf lean, could go either way. The fact she self-visited means absolutely nothing to me, and her hard cit claim means even less.

Gyrlander is also possibly the fifth cit in place of Mesk, but is pretty sketch in some ways.

-vote TwentyTwo

Agreed this guy seems weird. OFF WITH HIS HEAD.

He bandwaggoned even though I was just kind of finding my footing in this game and was probably mistaken in voting 22 based on the lack of a counterclaim. The sum total of his read on 22 was "this guy seems weird". No attempt to add depth to the discussion and help out town.

That sounds something like "I realised that there was NO way of getting you lynched, so I swapped my target to the guy that just replaced because... erm.. WIFOM."

Even when he talks about the game, his own reads on others are ultimately built upon their responses to something he has said about a band or some such nonsense. And he is still trolly and abbrasive, mostly toward unknown. He doesn't make reads on anyone and therefore all our leads on him are trying to pry meaning out of his nonsense smalltalk. Our sum of knowledge on Gyrlander is built on a foundation of shifting sands and deceit. It ensures any shit we fling at him won't stick.

He is likely scum of some sort, but if he continues to avoid making serious reads or contribute in any way I see no choice but to policy lynch him if he is town, as his behavior will only hurt us down the line.

-vote Gylander

[Unknown1234]

Gyrlander still feels like policy lynching. I'm not opposed, but I think if we are lynching scum then it's not him.

Why is Voss citizen to you? Why am I Citizen to you?

[thedougler]

Goddamn IDK why that ended up posting twice. @RLVG would you mind deleting the duplicate?

[thedougler]

Gyrlander still feels like policy lynching. I'm not opposed, but I think if we are lynching scum then it's not him.

Why is Voss citizen to you? Why am I Citizen to you?

TBH because you are both paranoid but active in a pro-town way. Neither of you have let on that you know anything for certain, and our only power roles are trying to troll to avoid the Joker's attention. Rather unsuccessfully, I might add in 22's case.

[Mesk514]

Omg, I can't be joker since i was seen visiting myself once, and probably seen visiting myself twice. Please stop disregarding logic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Okay I can be agent, BUT IM NOT

[Unknown1234]

I really don't like how you are PR hunting, but that's irrelevant.

How is Voss pro-Town?

[Mesk514]

A flexible suspicion on gyrlander and myself really makes me not want vote gyrlander. Low hanging fruit are always the easy push

[Unknown1234]

The only thing is is that it gives Gyrlander a free pass to doing nothing if he's scum (or even Town for that matter)

[thedougler]

I really don't like how you are PR hunting, but that's irrelevant.

How is Voss pro-Town?

I am not PR hunting just for the sake of it. PoE requires more or less accurate reads on everyone, even the power roles. I'm using 22 as my archetype for how I expect the power roles to act in this game, which is porbably misguided but it's all I have to go on. If I give compelling reasons as to why I thought X was maf, and why I though Y was a town power role, then it also kinda serves to insulate me from suspicion as cit if the Joker hits someone completely different. It isn't a guarantee I won't be lynched, but I'll take it over nothing.

As to why I town-read Voss, he seems to be probing and making his own reads without taking too much info as granted.

i think i stated this before, or if not, i'm going to explicitly state this now,

fury is not a mafia read for me, and i want to try to lynch the last mafia. if we get joker, i'll take it, but i'm not going to support the fury train.

also ccing detective doesn't do much good, as there's 2, right? am i stating the obvious or missing something?

Like me, he is fine with getting the Joker today if the mafia doesn't become apparent to us. He isn't dogmatically saying "hunt the mafia or nothing", he wants to do whatever he can to advance town interests today.

my reads will probably only change with flips at this point.

This is where I see him slipping cit. He has totally no outside knowledge to work with.

apart from gyr, i can see why you'd say there's scum in the replacement, and i'm sorry i dont have any interaction on d1 to prove i'm not.

i'd MAYBE support the lynch on doug, but i'd feel bad because he's a replacement, and that'd be shitty.

Like me he seems accutely aware that he has no way to prove himself as cit, and is thus trying to put himself in the shoes of the other town as much as possible. The apology seems kinda lame but I think the frustration and anxiety he is expressing here is genuine.

[Mesk514]

The only thing is is that it gives Gyrlander a free pass to doing nothing if he's scum (or even Town for that matter)

I'm willing to push him tomorrow.... but we can somewhat say the same bout sj

[thedougler]

The only thing is is that it gives Gyrlander a free pass to doing nothing if he's scum (or even Town for that matter)

Not true at all. If I see I'm under suspicion I always up my game and type furiously away to avoid a mislynch or save myself, whether I'm town or not. It depends entirely on the player. I take the opposite view to yours. Seeing us cast shade on him as town should probably cause him to furiously denounce whoever is doing it.

You argument basically boils down you saying we shouldn't accuse scum because they might talk less as a result. How are we supposed to win that way? And what are the negative repurcussions if he is scum? It's not like he would have any allies left he could accidentally reveal.

[Unknown1234]

Have you met Gyrlander?

[Unknown1234]

Have you met Gyrlander?

Read my Signature.

[Gyrlander]

Read my Signature.

Makes me proud everytime.

[Gyrlander]

Anyway, give me some time to have dinner and then I'll return and restart saying things.

[Gyrlander]

If I had to go with my gut I read, at the moment I view myself, Voss, and Unknown as the more or less "confirmed" cits. SJ I see as a possible cit but I have not ruled out Joker. Fury and 22 are probably power roles. TBP I have a skight mafia lean on right now. For Mesk I have a slight Joker or maf lean, could go either way. The fact she self-visited means absolutely nothing to me, and her hard cit claim means even less.

Gyrlander is also possibly the fifth cit in place of Mesk, but is pretty sketch in some ways.



He bandwaggoned even though I was just kind of finding my footing in this game and was probably mistaken in voting 22 based on the lack of a counterclaim. The sum total of his read on 22 was "this guy seems weird". No attempt to add depth to the discussion and help out town.



Even when he talks about the game, his own reads on others are ultimately built upon their responses to something he has said about a band or some such nonsense. And he is still trolly and abbrasive, mostly toward unknown. He doesn't make reads on anyone and therefore all our leads on him are trying to pry meaning out of his nonsense smalltalk. Our sum of knowledge on Gyrlander is built on a foundation of shifting sands and deceit. It ensures any shit we fling at him won't stick.

He is likely scum of some sort, but if he continues to avoid making serious reads or contribute in any way I see no choice but to policy lynch him if he is town, as his behavior will only hurt us down the line.

-vote Gylander

Hey, you voted incorrectly.

[Unknown1234]

I love how even your promises don't specifically say you'll give reads. "Restart saying things"

[Gyrlander]

I love how even your promises don't specifically say you'll give reads. "Restart saying things"

As town I almost NEVER lie so... you know I'm Town ;)

[Unknown1234]

Sad part is, I really wouldn't be surprised. I would much rather you make reads though.

[Voss]

But if the scum are Replacements?? Then they get free passes?

i didn't say that, i just said i'd feel bad.

I am not PR hunting just for the sake of it. PoE requires more or less accurate reads on everyone, even the power roles. I'm using 22 as my archetype for how I expect the power roles to act in this game, which is porbably misguided but it's all I have to go on. If I give compelling reasons as to why I thought X was maf, and why I though Y was a town power role, then it also kinda serves to insulate me from suspicion as cit if the Joker hits someone completely different. It isn't a guarantee I won't be lynched, but I'll take it over nothing.

As to why I town-read Voss, he seems to be probing and making his own reads without taking too much info as granted.

Like me, he is fine with getting the Joker today if the mafia doesn't become apparent to us. He isn't dogmatically saying "hunt the mafia or nothing", he wants to do whatever he can to advance town interests today.

This is where I see him slipping cit. He has totally no outside knowledge to work with.

Like me he seems accutely aware that he has no way to prove himself as cit, and is thus trying to put himself in the shoes of the other town as much as possible. The apology seems kinda lame but I think the frustration and anxiety he is expressing here is genuine.

A+ read. Thanks doug. This is an accurate depiction of me.

also also, you shouldn't try to 'hunt prs' and especially given the divide in experience, people aren't going to play the same way as prs.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
@unknown
it was this post
https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...l=1#post677985

[Unknown1234]

As I see it we should lynch ccantman so he can kill Alijach. This is hoping he does what we ask him and cooperates with us. If he doesn't we'll simply not believe him anymore in any game for being a little bitch.

-vote ccantman

2 scum dead better than 1 scum dead.

Hmm, Fair enough. I don't really Scum-read him much anymore, but I think he was one of the last people to suggest this idea.

[Unknown1234]

Actually, Voss, I was one of the very few people to be on Alijach's train so early. Can you explain why you think I'm paired with Stealth and Alijach?

[Fury]

-vote RLVG

[Fury]

I went too long without trolling. Yea it's a weak troll. Blow me.

[Fury]

I thought @thedougler was town before and after the argument I still think he's town. I also seem to think @Mesk514 is more town than other people think.

[Unknown1234]

Who are you reading scum then?

[Fury]

Who are you reading scum then?

I was trying to think because we can't lynch Mesk since 22 is potentially detective who clears her from being joker, so I town read her a bit more. Honestly, lynching any scum is good so while we should hunt for mafia today, lynching any scum is good. I think TBP has proven to be the least involved player, so I wouldn't mind lynching him since he could be joker and while I don't scum read Gyrlander too much, he hasn't given much information for which we can get a read on him. The only thing we can do is observe he won't give reads and that is a problem. I'd like to get one of those two because I don't feel comfortable lynching much else.

[Fury]

Some people scum read mesk, so I added that bit at the start as reasoning why she isn't a good target.

[Fury]

I just really don't see Mesk as mafia not doing anything n1. Then again I've never played with her. Does she pull that shit?

[Mesk514]

i don't actually see myself being scum read, i really see it as more dishing shade towards the low hanging fruit.

also, we've established we aren't chasing the joker, more chasing the agent so i think its time to put on those "im looking for an agent glasses"

i know you own a pair of those pretty boy bread

[Mesk514]

I just really don't see Mesk as mafia not doing anything n1. Then again I've never played with her. Does she pull that shit?

I've won one game as scum and its cause my team carried, lets just say my other games flopped so hard cause im a terrible scum